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Random Wrestling Thoughts (Part 2)

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    #3122
    ThePott
    Registered Users Posts: 3,061 ✭✭✭ThePott


    LineOfBeauty wrote: »
    P1. I don't think anybody is bringing an army of non fans to WWE (maybe The Rock for the SD debut on Fox is the last example I can think of) but presented correctly in 2016 I do believe he'd have hooked casual or semi casual viewers and you could've built ppvs on the back of such a run for sure.

    P 2. Again I'll say it. You can give him a million World Title reigns now, doesn't matter, the bloom is off the rose. Present him correctly back then and I absolutely do think he was a guy they could've catapulted to a difference making level in regards to pop some ratings, network subs ect. That's the measure I'm going on here, not that he'd be Times Man of the Year 2016. I'd absolutely argue exactly the same thing as I've done here for Nakamura that NXT was ultimately the wrong move for Balor in 2014. Completely wrong for reasons previously outlined.

    P 3. I don't even know how to go about this. You could sit a 12 year old in a room, they see Nakamura and they'd understand the gist of the character. I now have to ask, did you see him in NJPW at all? And even aside from that, taking just the WWE presentation of purely the character, how do you not get what Nakamura is? And how could you not see that guy back then and instantly think money?

    P 4. The point you said was that I put too much emphasis on the influence of Western NJPW fandom. I said a company literally exists in America because of it. That's the entire point. That in 2021 we're trying to downplay the influence of that section of fans in pro wrestling is wild.
    I honestly don't think the casual fans will come back for anyone they didn't grow up watching unfortunately and I don't think Nakamura would have been the one to do it as great as he is.

    I don't think once someone has been in the midcard that's them written off for life. Look at Becky or Daniel Bryan. I think Balor in NXT was the right move personally.

    Again, if you character is just based on appearance then it's not much of a character. Pointing to his character in NJPW is irrelevant when we're talking about his WWE run.

    The point about NJPW isn't that it's popular it's that no matter what way you slice it, it's popular in its niche. I'm not downplaying that but I think you are reaching a bit is all.

    Anyway, at this point I think we're beating a dead horse, we won't see eye to eye. Happy to knock it on the head here and prevent clogging up the board so much.


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    #3123
    LineOfBeauty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    ThePott wrote: »
    I honestly don't think the casual fans will come back for anyone they didn't grow up watching unfortunately and I don't think Nakamura would have been the one to do it as great as he is.

    I don't think once someone has been in the midcard that's them written off for life. Look at Becky or Daniel Bryan. I think Balor in NXT was the right move personally.

    Again, if you character is just based on appearance then it's not much of a character. Pointing to his character in NJPW is irrelevant when we're talking about his WWE run.

    The point about NJPW isn't that it's popular it's that no matter what way you slice it, it's popular in its niche. I'm not downplaying that but I think you are reaching a bit is all.

    Anyway, at this point I think we're beating a dead horse, we won't see eye to eye. Happy to knock it on the head here and prevent clogging up the board so much.

    I agree, I don't think anybody will ever get the casual viewer back invested in the company on a full time basis. There's so many issues with the product that nobody is sticking around for 5 hours a week of it to see anybody (and I mean anybody) for 15 minutes of those 5 hours.

    Every so often they manage to rehab someone after a failed push. But the more rehabbing you have to do, the less likely it is that person ever becomes a difference maker and the more likely it is they end up in the Ziggler/Cesaro/New Day void.

    The character thing we'll never agree on. For me Nak is in the top 5 most charismatic pro wrestlers I've ever seen.

    It's popular in the niche sure and while that doesn't equal 6 million people watching it on a weekly basis like Raw in it's prime, it can still lead to significant change in the context of pro wrestling.

    Anyway ye I don't have much else to say on it. And ultimately its a pro wrestling forum and if ever there was a place to fantasy book Shinsuke Nakamura's 2016 debut it's on the Random Thoughts thread!


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    #3124
    ThePott
    Registered Users Posts: 3,061 ✭✭✭ThePott


    LineOfBeauty wrote: »
    I agree, I don't think anybody will ever get the casual viewer back invested in the company on a full time basis. There's so many issues with the product that nobody is sticking around for 5 hours a week of it to see anybody (and I mean anybody) for 15 minutes of those 5 hours.

    Every so often they manage to rehab someone after a failed push. But the more rehabbing you have to do, the less likely it is that person ever becomes a difference maker and the more likely it is they end up in the Ziggler/Cesaro/New Day void.

    The character thing we'll never agree on. For me Nak is in the top 5 most charismatic pro wrestlers I've ever seen.

    It's popular in the niche sure and while that doesn't equal 6 million people watching it on a weekly basis like Raw in it's prime, it can still lead to significant change in the context of pro wrestling.

    Anyway ye I don't have much else to say on it. And ultimately its a pro wrestling forum and if ever there was a place to fantasy book Shinsuke Nakamura's 2016 debut it's on the Random Thoughts thread!
    True there's enough wrong with the product that a lot of people should be a bigger deal and aren't. While I think some can definitely be rehabbed I don't think WWE would put the effort required in. I like Nak and think he's charismatic and a great performer but I just don't think he's presented in such a way that people could get invested in him. For sure AEW is a big shift in the wrestling world and hopefully they can shift things even more.

    Anyway fantasy booking Nakamura would be an interesting one for sure haha


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    #3125
    Sirsok
    Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Sirsok


    Just thinking if WWE wanted to make Wyatt a bit more sinister, he could somewhat fashion themselves after the The Devils Rejects.

    Wyatt like a Captain Spalding
    Bliss like Baby
    And
    Ciampa like Otis , not WWE Otis the Otis who doesnt want no Tutti Frutti.


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    #3126
    CastorTroy
    Registered Users Posts: 28,841 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Was randomly thinking I wonder if Rosemary could join as Sister Abigail if they ever decided to make her a real person


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    #3127
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,512 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    I’m a day late but 29 years ago yesterday Marty jannetty decided to try to escape through a barber shop window instead of fighting HBK.


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    #3128
    CastorTroy
    Registered Users Posts: 28,841 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    The coward!


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    #3129
    gerrybbadd
    Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭gerrybbadd


    CastorTroy wrote: »
    The coward!

    Stop that!


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    #3130
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,512 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    gerrybbadd wrote: »
    Stop that!

    Or will you stop. I love this era Bobby Heenan. Wrestle mania 8 and the rumble of that year IMO are wrestling commentary gold. Prime time wrestling duo of heenan and monsoon has some utter gold. Many time gorilla seems to genuinely laugh at what Bobby is saying. The one before mania 4 at trump plaza has some brilliant non wrestling content.


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    #3131
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,844 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    ^That reminds me, will WWE ever use Trump in their hype packages again? :pac:


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    #3132
    Agent Coulson
    Registered Users Posts: 60,348 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Of course they will and Vince will probably ty to get him on RAW later in the year.


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    #3133
    beakerjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Agent Coulson wrote: »
    Of course they will and Vince will probably ty to get him on RAW later in the year.

    New GM ahoy.


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    #3134
    CastorTroy
    Registered Users Posts: 28,841 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Turns out he was behind Retribution.


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    #3135
    beakerjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    CastorTroy wrote: »
    Turns out he was behind Retribution.

    No, hes against Retribution. He will form his own group called the Insurrexecutioners to end Retribution one and for all.

    Fantastic, wonderful group of Patriot.


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    #3136
    ShagNastii
    Registered Users Posts: 4,811 ✭✭✭ShagNastii


    I haven’t really been watching in the last few years.

    Would it be right to say The Fiend/Bray Wyatt is a pretty much a complete repackage.

    I’d imagine there any shades of the old character but the children’s TV host things is total off the wall where as early Bray was a bit more grounded?


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    #3137
    beakerjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    More of an evolution of his character than a repackage.

    Or devolution


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    #3138
    sky88
    Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭sky88


    beakerjoe wrote: »
    No, hes against Retribution. He will form his own group called the Insurrexecutioners to end Retribution one and for all.

    Fantastic, wonderful group of Patriot.

    I wonder if del wilkes can still go


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    #3139
    gerrybbadd
    Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭gerrybbadd


    sky88 wrote: »
    I wonder if del wilkes can still go

    Tom Brandi (Salvatore Sincere) is doing The Patriot gimmick the last few years


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    #3140
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,512 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    I’m six days early but next Thursday will be the 20th anniversary of the 2001 royal rumble event. Now outside of making me feel old, I personally think that the 1992 royal rumble match is the best one ever , the 2001 event as a whole is the best one wwe have ever done. Bar the Chyna injury angle which was just bad, everything else hit. The IC ladder match between Benoit and Jericho is certainly one of the best IC title matches at the rumble and bar a couple others it’s up there as the best PPV one.


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    #3141
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Good shout above. The Hardy Boys start off. Comedy angles with Drew Carey and then Honky Tonk Man, both involving a jacked up Kane. Loved the hardcore spots in the rumble match itself. Raven with the shopping cart, Blackman with the martial arts weapons, Al Snow with the bowling ball. Random appearance from a current title holder in WCW in the form of Haku/Meng. The crescendo with the big talents at the end. Class.

    All of that is from memory from a match 20 years ago. I couldn’t tell you what happened 2 years ago now.


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    #3142
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,126 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    2001 is definitely up there as I think my favourite Rumble. Not gonna lie though, Lesnar butchering half the roster last year was bloody great as well, and the payoff with Drew just worked. Last WWE event I actually enjoyed I think, stopped watching very soon after Mania as I hated pretty much everything about the product.

    Omack, did you ever do a tournament on the best Royal Rumble?


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    #3143
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Necro wrote: »
    2001 is definitely up there as I think my favourite Rumble. Not gonna lie though, Lesnar butchering half the roster last year was bloody great as well, and the payoff with Drew just worked. Last WWE event I actually enjoyed I think, stopped watching very soon after Mania as I hated pretty much everything about the product.

    Omack, did you ever do a tournament on the best Royal Rumble?

    No but I have done a Pick Your Poison thread. No surprise as to which match won.

    Here’s the thread here.


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    #3144
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,553 ✭✭✭✭briany


    If I go to a wrestler's IMDB page, should their wrestling show appearances be credited as 'self' or 'actor'? I think most wrestlers should be credited as 'self' given the extent to which most wrestlers have traditionally 'lived the gimmick', so to speak.


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    #3145
    Agent Coulson
    Registered Users Posts: 60,348 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    If Omega signed with the WWE how long would it take before Vince would have Mojo Rawley or another jobber kick out of the One Winged Angel.


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    #3146
    The White Wolf
    Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    Agent Coulson wrote: »
    If Omega signed with the WWE how long would it take before Vince would have Mojo Rawley or another jobber kick out of the One Winged Angel.

    The Fiend kicking out at 2 after a One Winged Angel and an Avalanche One Winged Angel.


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    #3147
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,888 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    The Rock and Cena to go into the HOF in 2023, Hollywood the ideal location


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    #3148
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't think I've ever seen the 92 Rumble.


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    #3149
    LineOfBeauty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I don't think I've ever seen the 92 Rumble.

    You gotta change that. Flair's performance is the greatest Rumble performance ever and the match layout is all time great.


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    #3150
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,703 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I don't think I've ever seen the 92 Rumble.

    It is an absolute master class in character work, ric flair comes across as the biggest deal in the world, and it might be heenans greatest ever moment. It is absolutely worth an hour of your time.


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    #3151
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,512 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I don't think I've ever seen the 92 Rumble.

    :eek: you’ll have to change that straight away. It’s near perfection. The calibre of talent in the match is top drawer. Bobby heenan and gorilla monsoon should have been nominated for an Oscar for their commentary.


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