€2m taxpayer funds for GAA facilities

ted1 · 09-12-2019 12:24pm

is_that_so wrote: »

While this looks like a very good initiative should the taxpayer be on the hook for what is effectively a GAA only facility?

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0424/1045285-indoor-inter-county-games-at-connachts-3m-air-dome/

So what , tax payers money goes on lots of things, this is just one.

A hospital is I my used by sick people , a school by kids, council houses only for specific families , and so on.

ted1 · 09-12-2019 12:25pm

X111111111111 wrote: »

Not a nice organisation in my view. My son going back 15 years ago was told he couldn't play for his local football (soccer) team on the Saturday because his GAA team had a big semi final on the Sunday. Bit of a stand off occured that resulted in him being dropped out of the GAA side despite him being a regular fixture in the side all season.

I think most sports would have done that. Rest up before a big match. It’s not fair on the 14? Other players on the team.

kippy · 09-12-2019 12:30pm

Think about it,
were it not for the GAA and it's membership over the years how many community centres, pitches, walkways and general facilities would exist in Ireland?

While some of the money for these facilities have come from state funds a lot of it is generated locally - and to be fair if it weren't for the folks pushing for these things to get done, they wouldn't be done.

I know the village I am in currently would have very little were it not for a few people pushing for these facilities.

andekwarhola · 09-12-2019 12:36pm

Elmer Jones wrote: »

Anybody can become a member of a GAA club it's very cheap to have just general membership.

GAA has provided an outlet for people to exercise so it's also good for overall public health.

Basically your argument is coming down to GAA clubs are only for people who like GAA which is true much like swimming pools or athletics tracks etc are only for people interested in swimming and athletics.

It is slightly amusing when GAA members trumpet so much about volunteering, exercise and community etc as if 99% of sport played in Ireland in all codes doesn't fall into this category.

Also your points about the foreign games rule is disingenuous. The fact is that its a laborious process to get the rule overturned and not guaranteed to be successful. Its a tricky situation to have sporting facilities in receipt of generous public funding that are closed by rule to other sports on essentially discriminatory grounds of nationality.

For all that thoug, I'm completely in favour of generous funding for any sports, especially underage, and there shouldn't be bickering about it.

seamus · 09-12-2019 12:38pm

Whatever about the GAA being something of a black box money goes into. When you see the FAI taking millions of euro in and its board feasting on huge salaries, bonusses and lavish benefits while clubs and players struggle to get even the most basic facilities and rely on community handouts, you really start to appreciate the effort it must take to keep the GAA on track and not a massively corrupt cesspit.

We should disband the FAI and hand over complete control of Irish soccer to the GAA.

We'd be back with a world class soccer team inside of a decade.

X111111111111 · 09-12-2019 12:44pm

ted1 wrote: »

I think most sports would have done that. Rest up before a big match. It’s not fair on the 14? Other players on the team.

Nope two of the other lads had a hurling match on the Saturday which funny enough wasn't a problem. Anyway lesson was learned and he went on to play at a decent enough level in LOI.

BrianBoru00 · 09-12-2019 12:47pm

X111111111111 wrote: »

Not a nice organisation in my view. My son going back 15 years ago was told he couldn't play for his local football (soccer) team on the Saturday because his GAA team had a big semi final on the Sunday. Bit of a stand off occured that resulted in him being dropped out of the GAA side despite him being a regular fixture in the side all season.

that was discussed at Central council level was it? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

X111111111111 · 09-12-2019 12:57pm

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

that was discussed at Central council level was it? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

No the team manager made the call. In hindsight the young lad was happy enough about it as it focused the mind on the football ⚽

kippy · 09-12-2019 1:00pm

X111111111111 wrote: »

No the team manager made the call. In hindsight the young lad was happy enough about it as it focused the mind on the football ⚽

It's hard to paint the entire organisation with the same brush based on your interaction with one person, but you managed to do it.

kippy · 09-12-2019 1:05pm

andekwarhola wrote: »

It is slightly amusing when GAA members trumpet so much about volunteering, exercise and community etc as if 99% of sport played in Ireland in all codes doesn't fall into this category.

Also your points about the foreign games rule is disingenuous. The fact is that its a laborious process to get the rule overturned and not guaranteed to be successful. Its a tricky situation to have sporting facilities in receipt of generous public funding that are closed by rule to other sports on essentially discriminatory grounds of nationality.

For all that thoug, I'm completely in favour of generous funding for any sports, especially underage, and there shouldn't be bickering about it.

You might find that these "GAA Members" also volunteer within other sports as well. I know of a good few coaches who coach a number of sports - fair play to them.

The thing is there has to be a group of individuals organised enough to be able to put together the paperwork and planning needed to:
1. Make the proposales for facilities.
2. Put in the grant applications.
3. Deliver on what they said they'd deliver on.

If these people happen to be working under the umbrella of the GAA club, why shouldn't public money be used to support them in their endeavors and why shouldn't these facilities have usage limits built into them at the behest of the group that have put all the work into them ?

All that being said, I would be more for better "community" facilities in various towns and villages but when it comes to planning and running them, who does this if it's not under the umbrella of a GAA/Soccer/Rugby etc club.

X111111111111 · 09-12-2019 1:09pm

kippy wrote: »

It's hard to paint the entire organisation with the same brush based on your interaction with one person, but you managed to do it.

Yeah because im basing it on one event.

The exact original wording of Rule 27...

"Any member of the Association who plays or encourages in any way rugby, football, hockey or any imported game which is calculated to injuriously affect our National Pastimes, is suspended from the Association."

Rule 42 was worded as follows

Grounds controlled by Association units shall not be used or permitted to be used, for horse racing, greyhound racing, or for field games other than those sanctioned by Central Council."

Even during the 1950's American football was played at Croke Park. American sports are/were never an issue for the GAA only the so called British ones.

In fairness the GAA have moved on considerably in recent years (south of the border certainly) and this is thankfully a much more an isolated incident.

tayto lover · 09-12-2019 1:49pm

X111111111111 wrote: »

Yeah because im basing it on one event.

The exact original wording of Rule 27...

"Any member of the Association who plays or encourages in any way rugby, football, hockey or any imported game which is calculated to injuriously affect our National Pastimes, is suspended from the Association."

Rule 42 was worded as follows

Grounds controlled by Association units shall not be used or permitted to be used, for horse racing, greyhound racing, or for field games other than those sanctioned by Central Council."

Even during the 1950's American football was played at Croke Park. American sports are/were never an issue for the GAA only the so called British ones.

In fairness the GAA have moved on considerably in recent years (south of the border certainly) and this is thankfully a much more an isolated incident.

Every sporting organization promotes their own sport ahead of other sports.
It’s the natural thing to do.

X111111111111 · 09-12-2019 2:09pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Every sporting organization promotes their own sport ahead of other sports.
It’s the natural thing to do.

I think suspending someone isn't promoting your own game.

CrabRevolution · 09-12-2019 2:14pm

X111111111111 wrote: »

Yeah because im basing it on one event.

The exact original wording of Rule 27...
"Any member of the Association who plays or encourages in any way rugby, football, hockey or any imported game which is calculated to injuriously affect our National Pastimes, is suspended from the Association."

Rule 42 was worded as follows

Grounds controlled by Association units shall not be used or permitted to be used, for horse racing, greyhound racing, or for field games other than those sanctioned by Central Council."

Even during the 1950's American football was played at Croke Park. American sports are/were never an issue for the GAA only the so called British ones.

In fairness the GAA have moved on considerably in recent years (south of the border certainly) and this is thankfully a much more an isolated incident.

Rule 27 was repealed 50 years ago, what relevance is it today?

ChippingSodbury · 09-12-2019 2:23pm

X111111111111 wrote: »

Not a nice organisation in my view. My son going back 15 years ago was told he couldn't play for his local football (soccer) team on the Saturday because his GAA team had a big semi final on the Sunday. Bit of a stand off occured that resulted in him being dropped out of the GAA side despite him being a regular fixture in the side all season.

In our area, the local LOI team run an academy. They get U13s to sign a contract (for no gain) that precludes them from playing with other sporting teams, big games coming up or not.

OneEightSeven · 09-12-2019 2:43pm

kippy wrote: »

Think about it,
were it not for the GAA and it's membership over the years how many community centres, pitches, walkways and general facilities would exist in Ireland?

While some of the money for these facilities have come from state funds a lot of it is generated locally - and to be fair if it weren't for the folks pushing for these things to get done, they wouldn't be done.

I know the village I am in currently would have very little were it not for a few people pushing for these facilities.

I'm pretty sure other countries have facilities, community centers, etc... If the GAA didn't exist, other sports clubs would fill that void.

andekwarhola · 09-12-2019 2:44pm

To be fair, it's great to see kids playing different sports but it's a pain if one interferes with training and matches for the other, especially if the kids are playing to a decent level and teenagers.

Not sure I'd have take the nuclear option like that when I was coaching but I can fully understand the frustration of the coach and team mates.

Yurt2 · 09-12-2019 2:46pm

I'm of the opinion that not a penny of taxpayers money should go into GAA grounds as long as local clubs are unable to rent / share the facilities to any other minority code as they see fit by the GAA politburo.

The EU Commission took a dim view of the goings on down in Cork with PuC getting loadzadosh from taxpayers for the vanity Ceaușescu bowl that sits empty all year and other sports can't make use of it.

andekwarhola · 09-12-2019 2:48pm

OneEightSeven wrote: »

I'm pretty sure other countries have facilities, community centers, etc... If the GAA didn't exist, other sports clubs would fill that void.

No wish to turn this into a pissing match as the more kids in any sport the better but for all the good work in the GAA and incompetence of the FAI, it's not always been a level playing field between codes given the levels of patronage and establishment support.

Plus while an organisation that gets a ground will generally only use that ground, high levels of public funding don't sit well with an explicit rule banning 'foreign' sports. Just envisage for a second if that was a ban on, say, women's games or whatever.

Tallaght Stadium for example, is a public stadium with soccer team as anchor tenants but it has hosted rugby, junior GAA and American football events before.

Yurt2 · 09-12-2019 2:51pm

andekwarhola wrote: »

No wish to turn this into a pissing match as the more kids in any sport the better but for all the good work in the GAA and incompetence of the FAI, it's not always been a level playing field between codes given the levels of patronage and establishment support.

It's no accident that 'good GAA men' end up as TDs. If you're adept at getting sports capital grants for clubs up and down your county, it's a sure fire way to keep your job given the geographic spread.

Yurt2 · 09-12-2019 2:56pm

andekwarhola wrote: »

.

Tallaght Stadium for example, is a public stadium with soccer team as anchor tenants but it has hosted rugby, junior GAA and American football events before.

Hilariously, the GAA were spitting fire at the time that Tallaght stadium wasn't built to the specifications of the local GAA club (I think they may have even taken a court case).

I remember that one well. It was the end for me listening to the GAA on these matters and their precious rule book.

andekwarhola · 09-12-2019 3:05pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Hilariously, the GAA were spitting fire at the time that Tallaght stadium wasn't built to the specifications of the local GAA club (I think they may have even taken a court case).

I remember that one well. It was the end for me listening to the GAA on these matters and their precious rule book.

Thomas Davis CLG took the case and lost.

Like you say, the issue was never that it wasn't open to other codes as it is. They wanted it redesigned to accommodate senior GAA pitch which, given the restraints of the site, would have rendered the stadium pretty much useless in terms of capacity.

TD knew this and actually were caught in leaked emails admitting that it was a tactical move to oppose soccer getting a foothold in the area.

So now, both codes are still and always will be huge in Tallaght; Tallaght stadium is a great facility that brings in huge footfall, business and benefit to the community; hosts other sports as well as soccer including junior GAA while TD CLG pissed away hundreds of thousands of euro on a spiteful case that could have been used for the grassroots game in the area.

seamus · 09-12-2019 3:11pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Every sporting organization promotes their own sport ahead of other sports.
It’s the natural thing to do.

To be fair, I'd imagine they went "easier" on US sports on two counts;
1. Boxing or American Football were never competing for GAA players like soccer and rugby do

2. It was likely felt that it was an insult to the dead of Bloody Sunday to allow British sports in Croke Park.

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

In our area, the local LOI team run an academy. They get U13s to sign a contract (for no gain) that precludes them from playing with other sporting teams, big games coming up or not.

I'd love to know what moron came up with that unenforceable rubbish.

kippy · 09-12-2019 3:15pm

seamus wrote: »

To be fair, I'd imagine they went "easier" on US sports on two counts;
1. Boxing or American Football were never competing for GAA players like soccer and rugby do

2. It was likely felt that it was an insult to the dead of Bloody Sunday to allow British sports in Croke Park.

I'd love to know what moron came up with that unenforceable rubbish.

It's more common than you'd think.
It's also common enough for parents to pay a few hundred euro for their kids to join these "academys" on top of the regulary membership fee.
No more than a money maker for the clubs involved.

andekwarhola · 09-12-2019 3:34pm

kippy wrote: »

It's more common than you'd think.
It's also common enough for parents to pay a few hundred euro for their kids to join these "academys" on top of the regulary membership fee.
No more than a money maker for the clubs involved.

Sounds like they've signed up to the national FAI schoolboy league, which is 13s, 15s, 17s and 19s

It's for the most talented kids that might have a chance of making it in the game and only the league of ireland clubs field teams in there. It's a national league so there's travel and the kids would be doing a lot of training so it's understandsble they'd want kids not committed to other sports even in terms of injury.

No kid has to sign up for national league, there's still u13 onward leagues in DDSL etc for them to continue playing.

Would assume a kid playing at the highest level of GAA or Rugby or doing any sport at that level going into 13s/14s would probably be concentrating hard on one sport by that age too.

BrianBoru00 · 09-12-2019 3:41pm

seamus wrote: »

To be fair, I'd imagine they went "easier" on US sports on two counts;
1. Boxing or American Football were never competing for GAA players like soccer and rugby do

2. It was likely felt that it was an insult to the dead of Bloody Sunday to allow British sports in Croke Park.

I'd love to know what moron came up with that unenforceable rubbish.

It's not unenforceable. -You are dropped if you play GAA.

As it happens I thoroughly disagree with the white elephant in Bekan.
I never have. I think the €10m that has / will be spent would have been far better being divided in 5 and given to the respective county boards in the province for their own centres.

The issue is that we have far too many people in positions of power making decisions - which is the case here. This is what in general makes the GAA look bad when these click bait stories appear.

blue note · 09-12-2019 4:29pm

Yurt! wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that not a penny of taxpayers money should go into GAA grounds as long as local clubs are unable to rent / share the facilities to any other minority code as they see fit by the GAA politburo.

The EU Commission took a dim view of the goings on down in Cork with PuC getting loadzadosh from taxpayers for the vanity Ceaușescu bowl that sits empty all year and other sports can't make use of it.

Pairc ui caoimh was a disgrace. I remember the EU questions on it and I couldn't understand how they'd answer them. It doesn't see anything like enough games to excuse it being built, unless you take games away from thurles, the gaelic grounds and croke park which would be an inconvenience to basically all fans and teams.

I don't disagree with gaa getting funding for gaa only infrastructure. But I strongly disagree with it if its not justifiable. And the only justification for PuiC was corks inferiority complex. They're the second biggest city and therefore should have a massive, expensive (state of the art not important) stadium. Even though GAA is an all Ireland association and Belfast is actually the second biggest city.

Dravokivich · 09-12-2019 5:02pm

seamus wrote: »

Whatever about the GAA being something of a black box money goes into. When you see the FAI taking millions of euro in and its board feasting on huge salaries, bonusses and lavish benefits while clubs and players struggle to get even the most basic facilities and rely on community handouts, you really start to appreciate the effort it must take to keep the GAA on track and not a massively corrupt cesspit.

We should disband the FAI and hand over complete control of Irish soccer to the GAA.

We'd be back with a world class soccer team inside of a decade.

Not really. GAA's sponsors have been questioning their use of funds. Just because the FAI buggered things up, doesn't mean GAA haven't also.

andekwarhola · 10-12-2019 10:13am

Any particular reason why an IFA/FAI thread just got nuked (and apparently not moved that I can see) while this is still running?

Is it all sports threads not allowed or just ones that a particular mod might dislike?

kippy · 10-12-2019 10:23am

Dravokivich wrote: »

Not really. GAA's sponsors have been questioning their use of funds. Just because the FAI buggered things up, doesn't mean GAA haven't also.

You really think the IRFU and GAA have "buggered things up" more or even close to the level of the FAI, with all of the evidence you have seen?

There's a big difference in queries by sponsors to individual, volunteer, county boards and absolute shenanigans that have been going on at the FAI for the past decade or more.

andekwarhola · 10-12-2019 10:26am

kippy wrote: »

You really think the IRFU and GAA have "buggered things up" more or even close to the level of the FAI?

Constantly using the yardstick of not being as bad as the FAI isn't exactly the most watertight method of offering a critical analysis of any sporting organisation.

kippy · 10-12-2019 10:28am

andekwarhola wrote: »

Constantly using the yardstick of not being as bad as the FAI isn't exactly the most watertight method of offering a critical analysis of any sporting organisation.

I could have worded that better - hopefully my edit might clear it up a bit.

paul71 · 13-12-2019 4:25pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

I suppose that's the case until proved otherwise but I would keep a skeptical eye. There are open rumblings at times about remuneration for bainisteoirí, expenses and inducements and so on. I somehow doubt that all is squeaky clean.

All public monies granted for these type of facilities should have conditions attached as regards more open community use.

Super Idea, I am off down to the local cricket club to organise a show jumping event.

kippy · 13-12-2019 4:34pm

Insurance becomes a major issue when it comes down to attaching "community" use to facilities, along with all the other issues you run into.

€2m taxpayer funds for GAA facilities

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