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Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

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    #32
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,865 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Overheal wrote: »
    Like what, leaving Nazi statues in the Berlin city center?

    There’s a proper place for history and it’s not always in positions of honor.

    A decorative statue outside a hotel is not similar at all.


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    #33
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    How are they allowed to do this? Surely they have artistic and historical value. This is crazy.

    I wish people gave one per cent of a **** about actual slaves in the world we would be better off. There are actual slave markets in Libya, there are child soldiers, poor Nepali men dying for buildings in the gulf, camps in China.

    But ohhhhh no something happened in the US a hundred and fifty years ago. It's truly sickening.

    Only US lives matter it seems.


    There is a protest planned for August 2065 to address these issues in the severest of manners.


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    #34
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,865 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Yyhhuuu wrote: »
    Planning permission is most certainly required to remove any part of the protected structure.

    Please lodge a complaint to Dublin city council's planning enforcement section. E mail/ postal address:

    The Enforcement Section
    Planning Department
    Civic Offices
    Block 4, Floor 2
    Wood Quay
    Dublin 8



    Email: planningenforcement@dublincity.ie

    Tel: (01) 222 2147

    I would have thought so too. But we shall see what happens. I doubt they will be forced to reinstate them anytime soon though. Shelbourne Reputation Matters.


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    #35
    Yyhhuuu
    Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Yyhhuuu


    nullzero wrote: »
    They're entitled to remove the statues as they are private property.

    Whatever the reasoning may be.

    Personally I would have thought it's a reasonable thing to do when consideration is given to the amount of statues being vandalized and/or removed these days. No business owner wants destruction of their property, and if these statues had been removed by protestors there is reasonable likelihood that other damage may have been done to the hotel.

    While it may seem like virtue signalling on the surface, it's most likely a move to avoid vandalism, any criminal damage caused may have had a knock on effect on staff, so given that choice seeing the statues removed this way is preferable.

    It is not permitted to interfere with the fabric of a protected structure such as the Shelbourne Hotel without firstly obtaining planning permission. If no such permission was obtained lodge a complaint to Dublin City Council's Enforcement section. See address above.


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    #36
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    nullzero wrote: »
    They're entitled to remove the statues as they are private property.

    .

    If I buy these statues can I place them on the roof of my private property in Dublin City centre?


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    #37
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Yyhhuuu wrote: »
    Planning permission is most certainly required to remove any part of the protected structure.

    Please lodge a complaint to Dublin city council's planning enforcement section. E mail/ postal address:

    The Enforcement Section
    Planning Department
    Civic Offices
    Block 4, Floor 2
    Wood Quay
    Dublin 8



    Email: planningenforcement@dublincity.ie

    Tel: (01) 222 2147

    I will lodge a complaint. Thanks for that.


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    #38
    Yyhhuuu
    Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Yyhhuuu


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    I would have thought so too. But we shall see what happens. I doubt they will be forced to reinstate them anytime soon though. Shelbourne Reputation Matters.

    Of course if they are in contravention of Planning Law an Enforcement Notice will issue by the Council. A complaint must be made by a member of the public first before the council will act on the matter.


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    #39
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Overheal wrote: »
    Like what, leaving Nazi statues in the Berlin city center?

    There’s a proper place for history and it’s not always in positions of honor.

    Nazi statues? Really. Tiny bit different.

    They are iconic statues that have been there for 150 years. I doubt anyone even knew they were of slaves.


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    #40
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Its says the depictions are of Nubian princesses and their slave girls. So its literally nothing to do with the US or their slave trade but a depiction of African history. Seems a bit ott to remove them.

    It's from a time when Egyptian art was popular.

    tbh I always thought it was a bit weird, surprised the statues lasted this long.


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    #41
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,426 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Nazi statues? Really

    Didn't you get the memo? Everyone in the past was a Nazi and their history must be eradicated.


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    #42
    mc25
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭mc25


    The article did say that they had been planned to be removed for some time...

    I mean that could be corporate BS, but would there be as much talk here if it was statues of unicorns or something equally as ridiculous?


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    #43
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,865 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I hope they will be delicately placed somewhere on the delightful outdoor terrace which is off the majestic staircase on the mezzanine. A hidden gem if ever there was one.

    There I've given my secret spot away for you all now. But you all know about it I suppose.


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    #44
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Illegal for the hotel to change its own decorations? Do people not even pretend to read the stories before a kneejerk reaction?

    Yes, illegal. I can't believe a post this ill-informed got thanks. And don't try to smugly brush it off like they're just painting the lobby or something.
    Ironically, this is a blatant case of American cultural imperialism.


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    #45
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Nothing to do with the US? Really?

    It's just a coincidence they are being removed now?

    I meant the statues portray African princesses and their slaves who are also African so in that sense has nothing to do with American history. To remove it because of what is happening in the US seems like virtue signaling, especially if no one has complained or even noticed.


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    #46
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,426 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    mc25 wrote: »
    The article did say that they had been planned to be removed for some time...

    I mean that could be corporate BS, but would there be as much talk here if it was statues of unicorns or something equally as ridiculous?

    If they were 153 year old historical statues of unicorns on part of a protected structure and they were taken down for offending Bronies, then yes people would be annoyed.


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    #47
    Yyhhuuu
    Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Yyhhuuu


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    I hope they will be delicately placed somewhere on the delightful outdoor terrace which is off the majestic staircase on the mezzanine. A hidden gem if ever there was one.

    There I've given my secret spot away for you all now. But you all know about it I suppose.

    They should be reinstated immediately.


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    #48
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,865 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Yyhhuuu wrote: »
    They should be reinstated immediately.

    I meant place them on the Terrace for the time being until a decision is made by the Enforcement in DCC or whatever. If vandalism is what they are worried about they'd be safe up there.

    Anyway, I doubt this will gain much traction given the times we are in at the moment. Maybe it will, but I am sceptical. Money talks sometimes. But we'll see.


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    #49
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    I don't think Aristotle or the Greeks would agree with you at all ;)

    Choosing to continue using these patriarchal terms is embedding sexism into our culture on every level. :(


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    #50
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    Silly cnuts

    I'd wager a good number of the wealthy patrons of the hotel have a very chequered history on how their wealth has been accumulated, especially "old money" as the yanks would call it, I'd also like to see an end to the hotel accommodating the business leaders from certain industries such as some German motor manufacturers, Siemens and Pfizer, also no representatives from African countries where slavery was a booming business for centuries, no Saudi/middle eastern oil barons or royals whose countries uses slave labour to build desert oasis cities, lets not forget Chinese and Russian delegates whose countries use prisoners as slaves in concentration camps, nor American railroad officials on whose tracks so many Irish and Chinese slave labourers died to gratify land grabs off native Americans and oil barons.

    Lets not get carried away listening to a vile racist group like BLM, history shouldn't be forgotten or erased, face up to it and use it to improve mankind not to bury history because a few black people in America think they're owed something because they perceive themselves to be oppressed


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    #51
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,640 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    KaneToad wrote: »
    If I buy these statues can I place them on the roof of my private property in Dublin City centre?

    Yes. Barring planning permission from city council but I’d think you have a case to do so.


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    #52
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,865 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    Choosing to continue using these patriarchal terms is embedding sexism into our culture on every level. :(

    Ah have a drop of Hemlock, you'll be grand but dead. Socrates said so.


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    #53
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,640 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    o1s1n wrote: »
    Didn't you get the memo? Everyone in the past was a Nazi and their history must be eradicated.

    Well if someone’s “we can’t eradicate history” virtue signaling is to remain consistent it stands to simple reason it should be able to stand up to the informal ‘Nazi Test’ as it were. There’s a difference between “vaporizing history” and moving statues to less prolific sites.


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    #54
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users Posts: 11,471 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    Yyhhuuu wrote: »
    Planning permission is most certainly required to remove any part of the protected structure.

    Please lodge a complaint to Dublin city council's planning enforcement section. E mail/ postal address:

    The Enforcement Section
    Planning Department
    Civic Offices
    Block 4, Floor 2
    Wood Quay
    Dublin 8

    There's a fairly hefty irony to DCC's planning section being located at Wood Quay given the archaelogical vandalism that went on in building that office block


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    #55
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,865 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    For Forks Sake wrote: »
    There's a fairly hefty irony to DCC's planning section being located at Wood Quay given the archaelogical vandalism that went on in building that office block

    That was a total travesty alright. Pains me to think about what is underneath that behomoth of a building. You have triggered my anger.


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    #56
    MoonUnit75
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    It’s almost like no one notices the fundamentalism taking hold.


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    #57
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,252 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    KaneToad wrote: »
    Wait till they start going through the art galleries of the world and start removing the masterpieces that depict unsavoury content.

    They already are. Famous Victorian painting of Greek Nymphs and Narcissus was taken down fir being problematic.


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    #58
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,426 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Overheal wrote: »
    Well if someone’s “we can’t eradicate history” virtue signaling is to remain consistent it stands to simple reason it should be able to stand up to the informal ‘Nazi Test’ as it were. There’s a difference between “vaporizing history” and moving statues to less prolific sites.

    So decorative statues which have been there for over a century and a half have the same historical display value as political statues thrown up for a brief period in Germany during the Third Reich?

    Nazi statues were never of historical significance at the time as they were barely up relatively speaking before being torn down. It's not the same thing and you're well aware how ridiculous a comparison it is.


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    #59
    MoonUnit75
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Overheal wrote: »
    Well if someone’s “we can’t eradicate history” virtue signaling is to remain consistent it stands to simple reason it should be able to stand up to the informal ‘Nazi Test’ as it were. There’s a difference between “vaporizing history” and moving statues to less prolific sites.

    Great, we’ll start moving ‘problematic’ books to less troublesome shelves, in a bunker somewhere. Good books should be able to pass the new Woke cult test, right?


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    #60
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    KaneToad wrote: »
    Wait till they start going through the art galleries of the world and start removing the masterpieces that depict unsavoury content.

    The Pyramids need to go ASAP


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    #61
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,166 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    mc25 wrote: »
    The article did say that they had been planned to be removed for some time...

    I mean that could be corporate BS, but would there be as much talk here if it was statues of unicorns or something equally as ridiculous?

    Planned for some time, like a few weeks

    The hotel’s general manager JP Kavanagh said the decision to take the four statues down had been taken by them alone and there had been no complaints from outsiders about them.

    “It was a decision taken just by us with our owner and operator. This decision has been coming for a number of weeks given what has been happening in the world,” he said.


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