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Do you believe in God?

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    #392
    Bobblehats
    Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Have you considered the possibility that you're kidding yourself?

    Kiss the ring.


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    #393
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,372 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    donkeykong5 wrote: »
    N
    No. Have you?
    How can you kid yourself about something that doesn't exist, except in other people's imagination?


    I was at a couple of Christian funerals recently, and it struck me that this holding out hope of a reunion with dead people is the ultimate deception, and so tempting for bereaved family members. It's really exploiting people at their time of most need - fairly despicable really.


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    #394
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users Posts: 4,421 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    By God do we mean man in the sky?


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    #395
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    ToddyDoody wrote: »
    By God do we mean man in the sky?

    Poseidon I think. Oh no, what am I saying, those silly Greeks and their made up gods, everyone knows OUR god is real and the rest of them are made up.


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    #396
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users Posts: 4,421 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Poseidon I think. Oh no, what am I saying, those silly Greeks and their made up gods, everyone knows OUR god is real and the rest of them are made up.

    Maybe God is in the psyche and we just project it onto external figures.


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    #397
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    No, I don’t. God exists in a world where children get brain tumours? Get to fuck.


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    #398
    cj maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,357 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    OBD, given your prognosis, do you find any notion of god ?


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    #399
    hinault
    Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    I believe and accept that God exists.


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    #400
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    No, I don’t. God exists in a world where children get brain tumours? Get to fuck.
    This God is certainly not good .


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    #401
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote:
    No, I don’t. God exists in a world where children get brain tumours? Get to ****.


    An understandable comment but I do think people's beliefs should be respected, I have seen it to be as positive as negative, me personally, it's not for me, my logical mind simply won't allow it


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    #402
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,336 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    An understandable comment but I do think people's beliefs should be respected

    Have to admit I have never understood that position myself. I think PEOPLE should be respected. Not beliefs. And you can do one without doing the other. In fact when beliefs are really ridiculous, I find respecting them is the opposite of respecting the people who hold them.

    Was it Johann Hari or someone else who once said "I respect you as a person too much to respect your ridiculous beliefs."?


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    #403
    kerryjack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    They are still pedling this Shiite in school and only for my OH I wouldn't have bothered with all that crap communion and confirmation They must have been on some serious magic mushrooms the days those clowns wrote the bibles.


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    #404
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The greatest con ever.

    To continue believing in god/gods in adulthood is a good indicator of a persons capacity for stupidity.


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    #405
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    An understandable comment but I do think people's beliefs should be respected,

    Do they not all have a part similar to the bible bit of not worshipping false gods and you go to hell if you do?

    Seems a bit hypocritical ( also a sin possibly?) for them to not want to be judged while doing the same.


    Peoples silly beliefs in other things are fair game, religion doesn't deserve special protection.


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    #406
    ShauntaMetzel
    Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭ShauntaMetzel


    For sure, I do.


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    #407
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    cjmc wrote: »
    OBD, given your prognosis, do you find any notion of god ?

    No. Didn’t believe in God before, don’t now. The afterlife is a comforting thought but I just don’t believe in it.
    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    An understandable comment but I do think people's beliefs should be respected, I have seen it to be as positive as negative, me personally, it's not for me, my logical mind simply won't allow it

    Did I say I didn’t? What I posted is my belief


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    #408
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,637 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    If the belief helps their well being, then i would respect their right to believe it, no matter how nonsensical it might be to me. A case in point was when my father spoke of the lord a few months back, i just listened, i certainly was not going to do a Dawkins on it.


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    #409
    Len_007
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Len_007


    The belief that nothing awaits us post death and not a God who we've to give an account to for everything we've ever said and done in our life seems more comforting and I can see the attraction in folk who think that way


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    #410
    pearcider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    No, I don’t. God exists in a world where children get brain tumours? Get to fuck.

    The counter argument would be that those children are innocent of sin and will become angels in heaven. Which is an infinitely greater reward then 100 years of perfect living on earth. In fact Jesus states this directly in the Bible.

    At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

    He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.”

    — Matthew 18:1-5


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    #411
    pearcider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    Len_007 wrote: »
    The belief that nothing awaits us post death and not a God who we've to give an account to for everything we've ever said and done in our life seems more comforting and I can see the attraction in folk who think that way

    For me, life is clearly a test of some sort. A really hard test.


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    #412
    Marhay70
    Registered Users Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    pearcider wrote: »
    The counter argument would be that those children are innocent of sin and will become angels in heaven. Which is an infinitely greater reward then 100 years of perfect living on earth. In fact Jesus states this directly in the Bible.

    At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

    He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.”

    — Matthew 18:1-5

    The children of whom Jesus spoke were, surely, guilty of original sin so the comparison does not stand up. Also, absolution from original sin by baptism is only observed by Christianity so that would presumably exclude approximately 70% of the world's children.


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    #413
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    Long ago a man was approached by a preacher and was told " Only by knowing and loving God will you find salvation and a place in heaven. Otherwise you are condemned to spend eternity in hell!".
    The man says "Oh. And what happens to all the people who never hear about him? Will they too go to hell?".
    The preacher responds "It's not their fault so they'll go to heaven.".
    The man asks " So why'd you tell me then?".


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    #414
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,372 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    pearcider wrote: »
    The counter argument would be that those children are innocent of sin and will become angels in heaven. Which is an infinitely greater reward then 100 years of perfect living on earth.
    Can't they have both? Can't they have 100 years of perfect living on earth AND an eternity in heaven? Why do some get chosen for the 'gift' of cancer?


    And how about cancer in non-innocent adults - not murderers, just general ordinary sinners. What kind of loving God condemns some people to months or years of painful decay in sight of their families? They won't become angels, so they don't have the 'infinitely greater reward' to compensate.




    Marhay70 wrote: »
    The children of whom Jesus spoke were, surely, guilty of original sin so the comparison does not stand up. Also, absolution from original sin by baptism is only observed by Christianity so that would presumably exclude approximately 70% of the world's children.
    Again, what kind of loving god excludes 70% of children as a result of the accident of birth - what culture they get born into?


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    #415
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    pearcider wrote: »
    The counter argument would be that those children are innocent of sin and will become angels in heaven. Which is an infinitely greater reward then 100 years of perfect living on earth. In fact Jesus states this directly in the Bible.

    At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

    He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.”

    — Matthew 18:1-5
    Suppose Thats one way out of the "why did you kill those kids in a horrible way and make them suffer" discussion.

    Its bull**** of course....

    What about unbaptised kids? Straight to the mass grave with them?

    I take it the parents grief at having their child die and dealing with the pain of a drawn out death at that is somehow beneficial them too?

    Thats pretty much the church all over.


    Presumably its the Christian god thats murdering children of other faiths too? They probably deserve it though for worshiping false gods?


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    #416
    Wanderer2010
    Registered Users Posts: 6,663 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    The big question about God is what came before The Big Bang, what happened before that, what or Who created the infinite number of universes. Its a mind bending question that doesn't have a definitive answer and you could probably go mad thinking too much of it. Whether you have a leaning towards believing in a higher power or not, its impossible to answer the question of what came FIRST and who or what was responsible?


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    #417
    Len_007
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Len_007


    Emotionally, I understand the What About Suffering Children argument.
    Logically however, how it's meant to prove there is no God who created the Universe and all there in, I find it myself hard to trace the link.

    It's entirely possible that both the existence of a suffering world and an omnipotent God aren't mutually exclusive.
    But people are happy to stop thinking beyond the question of "How could this God let suffering in this way happen?" in my experience.
    Reading the OT/NT in any detail clearly reveals a God who is not happy with the state of the World and its rebellion towards him. The ministry of Christ is full of him reversing the effects of an aching world and its manifestations in peoples lives. But the many healings weren't number one on the top of Jesus list. Sure he only started doing them in the last three years of his life. For him, suffering was symptomatic of a deeper problem. Dealing with that issue, enables Him to bring the fully restored Creation you read of in the last two chapters of the Bible. (In fact the whole Bible is a U shape story beginning with the first couple of pages in Genesis were we see a perfect Creation before a great Rupture, and the last pages in Revelation where all things are restored.)


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    #418
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,372 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Len_007 wrote: »
    It's entirely possible that both the existence of a suffering world and an omnipotent God aren't mutually exclusive.
    How is this possible? The omnipotent God explicitly chose to create humans that experience pain and suffering, and conditions like cancer just for kicks?


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    #419
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    How is this possible? The omnipotent God explicitly chose to create humans that experience pain and suffering, and conditions like cancer just for kicks?
    An omnipotent sick bar-steward !:eek:


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    #420
    HappyAsLarE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    I believe God is misunderstood. I believe in a God that is defined as the collective consciousness of all of mankind. That He is an archetype concept created to metaphorically explain our Being.

    Tell me one civil society that is not grounded in a belief in God. The concept was naturally selected as one that works, at least up until now.


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    #421
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    pearcider wrote: »
    For me, life is clearly a test of some sort. A really hard test.


    Paper 1: Brain cancer aged 9 months


    Paper 2: Crack addiction from the womb


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