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No public enquiry in Pat Finucane Murder

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Comments

  • #2
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,309 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    UDAWINNER wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/UTVNews/status/1333465804726145024

    Absolutely shocking that will not go ahead, I bet we won't see much protest from Leo or Micheal about this. Too busy with with their outrage over a tweet:(

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2020/1130/1181310-finucane-murder/


    "Taoiseach Micheál Martin said he was disappointed that the British government has not committed to holding a public inquiry, as agreed between the British and Irish governments in 2001."

    Think Micheal just called them out over it.


  • #3
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,939 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2020/1130/1181310-finucane-murder/


    "Taoiseach Micheál Martin said he was disappointed that the British government has not committed to holding a public inquiry, as agreed between the British and Irish governments in 2001."

    Think Micheal just called them out over it.

    'Disappointed'???

    I was 'disappointed' we played badly in the second half of the rugby on Sunday.

    Just the same limp response we have come to expect.


  • #4
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Any statement from Drew Harris on it? I'm sure he has lots of info.


  • #5
    costacorta
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭costacorta


    smurgen wrote: »
    Any statement from Drew Harris on it? I'm sure he has lots of info.
    Ah get over it , if he lived by the sword be prepared to die by the sword . Provos crying foul when one of their own shot but no problem blowing up innocent children . No inquiry needed here ..


  • #6
    Samsonsmasher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    It was a dirty war and he was fair game. He knew the risks defending IRA
    People who were informers or suspected informers were got rid of by the IRA. Workmen civilian staff and so on who worked on British bases were targetted.
    Partime UDR and RUC members were attacked off duty and pubs where British soldiers drank were bombed as were commercial properties and businesses vital to the Northern Ireland economy.
    The IRA tried to take out Thatcher and her cabinet in Brighton and mortared Major in No 10. Mountbatten was sympathetic to Irish unity but was killed because he was a Royal.
    A BBC tv presenter who offered an award to anyone who ratted on IRA gunman and bombers on the loose in the UK in the 1970s was shot on his doorstep.
    British soldiers who came home in bodybags and IRA members killed in shoot to kill operations knew the risks.
    The IRA figured out if they bombed the financial heart of London they could make more of an impact than any mortars or bombs or gun attacks in Northern Ireland.
    So Finucane was fair game.


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  • #7
    costacorta
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭costacorta


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    It was a dirty war and he was fair game. He knew the risks defending IRA
    People who were informers or suspected informers were got rid of by the IRA. Workmen civilian staff and so on who worked on British bases were targetted.
    Partime UDR and RUC members were attacked off duty and pubs where British soldiers drank were bombed as were commercial properties and businesses vital to the Northern Ireland economy.
    The IRA tried to take out Thatcher and her cabinet in Brighton and mortared Major in No 10. Mountbatten was sympathetic to Irish unity but was killed because he was a Royal.
    A BBC tv presenter who offered an award to anyone who ratted on IRA gunman and bombers on the loose in the UK in the 1970s was shot on his doorstep.
    British soldiers who came home in bodybags and IRA members killed in shoot to kill operations knew the risks.
    The IRA figured out if they bombed the financial heart of London they could make more of an impact than any mortars or bombs or gun attacks in Northern Ireland.
    So Finucane was fair game.

    That’s it in a nutshell. But provos don’t think their guys and gals deserve to be killed in a dirty war ..


  • #8
    Fionn1952
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,633 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    It is incredibly unsurprising that the same people who describe a solicitor as a, 'legitimate target' are the first to get outraged when the same term is used to describe British soldiers who were actually confirmed combatants.

    Whatever the wrongs of the PIRA, and there were many, we should be able to expect a higher standard from a government of a first world country.


  • #9
    Charlie Bucket
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Charlie Bucket


    Ah live and let live and let bygones be bygones.


  • #10
    Pasteur.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭Pasteur.


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    It is incredibly unsurprising that the same people who describe a solicitor as a, 'legitimate target' are the first to get outraged when the same term is used to describe British soldiers who were actually confirmed combatants.

    Whatever the wrongs of the PIRA, and there were many, we should be able to expect a higher standard from a government of a first world country.
    Legitimises terrorism when you lump them all in together


  • #11
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,714 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    i think its pretty obvious from the kind of replies that to some the british government just cant do anything bad. the usual rubbish from the usual suspects


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  • #12
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,939 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    It is incredibly unsurprising that the same people who describe a solicitor as a, 'legitimate target' are the first to get outraged when the same term is used to describe British soldiers who were actually confirmed combatants.

    Whatever the wrongs of the PIRA, and there were many, we should be able to expect a higher standard from a government of a first world country.

    I fully agree here Fionn. You can call out the hypocrisy here in the way the same cohort rush to the high moral ground while still believing what happened at Narrow Water was wrong and regrettable, as all the violence was from the start.
    And of course the state have to be held to higher account. A basic principle of any upstanding democracy.


  • #13
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    It was a dirty war and he was fair game. He knew the risks defending IRA
    People who were informers or suspected informers were got rid of by the IRA. Workmen civilian staff and so on who worked on British bases were targetted.
    Partime UDR and RUC members were attacked off duty and pubs where British soldiers drank were bombed as were commercial properties and businesses vital to the Northern Ireland economy.
    The IRA tried to take out Thatcher and her cabinet in Brighton and mortared Major in No 10. Mountbatten was sympathetic to Irish unity but was killed because he was a Royal.
    A BBC tv presenter who offered an award to anyone who ratted on IRA gunman and bombers on the loose in the UK in the 1970s was shot on his doorstep.
    British soldiers who came home in bodybags and IRA members killed in shoot to kill operations knew the risks.
    The IRA figured out if they bombed the financial heart of London they could make more of an impact than any mortars or bombs or gun attacks in Northern Ireland.
    So Finucane was fair game.

    completely misses the point

    the scandal of the Finucane murder was the collusion between loyalists and the state


  • #14
    PearseCork92
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 142 ✭✭PearseCork92


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    It was a dirty war and he was fair game. He knew the risks defending IRA
    People who were informers or suspected informers were got rid of by the IRA. Workmen civilian staff and so on who worked on British bases were targetted.
    Partime UDR and RUC members were attacked off duty and pubs where British soldiers drank were bombed as were commercial properties and businesses vital to the Northern Ireland economy.
    The IRA tried to take out Thatcher and her cabinet in Brighton and mortared Major in No 10. Mountbatten was sympathetic to Irish unity but was killed because he was a Royal.
    A BBC tv presenter who offered an award to anyone who ratted on IRA gunman and bombers on the loose in the UK in the 1970s was shot on his doorstep.
    British soldiers who came home in bodybags and IRA members killed in shoot to kill operations knew the risks.
    The IRA figured out if they bombed the financial heart of London they could make more of an impact than any mortars or bombs or gun attacks in Northern Ireland.
    So Finucane was fair game.


    Both the RUC and a British government inquiry concluded he wasn't a member of the IRA. He also had a record of defending Loyalist paramilitary members.

    The above post is rather silly. If you're so concerned about the ethics of a dirty war, perhaps you should be a bit more exercised about state collusion in the execution of solicitors doing their job.


  • #15
    Samsonsmasher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    It is incredibly unsurprising that the same people who describe a solicitor as a, 'legitimate target' are the first to get outraged when the same term is used to describe British soldiers who were actually confirmed combatants.

    Whatever the wrongs of the PIRA, and there were many, we should be able to expect a higher standard from a government of a first world country.

    The only people upset are the naive.

    The British soldiers who died were fighting a war and that was that. Part of the job.

    If Finucane didn't know he risked being targetted for death he was an idiot.


  • #16
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,714 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    The only people upset are the naive.

    The British soldiers who died were fighting a war and that was that. Part of the job.

    If Finucane didn't know he risked being targetted for death he was an idiot.

    the brits and the ruc got way better money than ira volunteers too. I'd say he knew he was a target - the point is he was a solicitor - not a soldier or volunteer


  • #17
    McCrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,981 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    It was a dirty war and he was fair game. He knew the risks defending IRA
    People who were informers or suspected informers were got rid of by the IRA. Workmen civilian staff and so on who worked on British bases were targetted.
    Partime UDR and RUC members were attacked off duty and pubs where British soldiers drank were bombed as were commercial properties and businesses vital to the Northern Ireland economy.
    The IRA tried to take out Thatcher and her cabinet in Brighton and mortared Major in No 10. Mountbatten was sympathetic to Irish unity but was killed because he was a Royal.
    A BBC tv presenter who offered an award to anyone who ratted on IRA gunman and bombers on the loose in the UK in the 1970s was shot on his doorstep.
    British soldiers who came home in bodybags and IRA members killed in shoot to kill operations knew the risks.
    The IRA figured out if they bombed the financial heart of London they could make more of an impact than any mortars or bombs or gun attacks in Northern Ireland.
    So Finucane was fair game.

    There is something different though when a lawyer is targeted for doing his job and not only that targeted with the assistance of the security forces because that is what makes it particularly heinous


  • #18
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    costacorta wrote: »
    Ah get over it , if he lived by the sword be prepared to die by the sword . Provos crying foul when one of their own shot but no problem blowing up innocent children . No inquiry needed here ..

    What sword did Pat Finnucane live by?

    He was murdered in front of his family because he was a lawyer who represented republicans (and his firm represented loyalists also), not because "he lived by a sword"

    Forgive me for saying so, but I don't believe you have a scaldy balls notion about what you're posting about tbh.


  • #19
    votecounts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭votecounts


    Pathetic decision by the British Govt, could they not have the honourable thing and hold an enquiry for the sake of wife and children.


  • #20
    costacorta
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭costacorta


    McMurphy wrote: »
    What sword did Pat Finnucane live by?

    He was murdered in front of his family because he was a lawyer who represented republicans (and his firm represented loyalists also), not because "he lived by a sword"

    Forgive me for saying so, but I don't believe you have a scaldy balls notion about what you're posting about tbh.

    Ah one of your comrades was shot and you don’t like it . Maybe you don’t have a clue what it’s all about . Constantly throwing up silly Leo tweets and thinking SF are super duper. Get a life man and don’t be acting the big republican . All just a bunch of terrorists who cry out when their scum are shot and celebrate when they blow up children. See it’s you that haven’t a clue .. now back to your Twitter and the village for you ..


  • #21
    UDAWINNER
    Registered Users Posts: 860 ✭✭✭UDAWINNER


    costacorta wrote: »
    Ah one of your comrades was shot and you don’t like it . Maybe you don’t have a clue what it’s all about . Constantly throwing up silly Leo tweets and thinking SF are super duper. Get a life man and don’t be acting the big republican . All just a bunch of terrorists who cry out when their scum are shot and celebrate when they blow up children. See it’s you that haven’t a clue .. now back to your Twitter and the village for you ..
    calling pat finucane scum is pretty low even for some posters. An innocent solicitor doing his job and he's murdered for it and he's the scum.


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  • #22
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    costacorta wrote: »
    Ah one of your comrades was shot and you don’t like it . Maybe you don’t have a clue what it’s all about . Constantly throwing up silly Leo tweets and thinking SF are super duper. Get a life man and don’t be acting the big republican . All just a bunch of terrorists who cry out when their scum are shot and celebrate when they blow up children. See it’s you that haven’t a clue .. now back to your Twitter and the village for you ..

    Sorry, I asked you to clarify what "sword" Pat Finnucane lived by?

    I repeat, he was murdered for no other reason than he worked as a lawyer and defended republicans in court, and he was murdered for that (as was Rosemary Nelson afterwards)

    You posted an absolutely ridiculous/disgraceful comment where you suggested Finnucane deserved to die because he worked as a lawyer and represented some republicans, I don't know about you, but I'd not be comfortable living in a state where you can't get legal defence because of your political beliefs, or actions, and similarly you might pay with your life as a lawyer for offering the same.

    Listen, you made a stupid post and I called you out on it, the follow up looks even more stupid in that context.

    Might be as well just not posting about stuff you know the square root of fcuk all about tbh.


  • #23
    UDAWINNER
    Registered Users Posts: 860 ✭✭✭UDAWINNER


    https://twitter.com/JohnODowdSF/status/1333522594386087936


    Typical behaviour up there, yet you never hear any outrage from ffg, yet they will commemorate the tans.


  • #24
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    I don't believe an inquiry commissioned by the UK government would be allowed to get to anything like the truth. So, I actually welcome the decision. There is no point in setting up pretendy inquiries.

    Their push-back on setting up on inquiry, by contrast to, say, Bloody Sunday, suggests that the collusion extended to much more senior on the food chain than has been hitherto acknowledged. That's what they don't want coming out and in my view is the logical conclusion. With Bloody Sunday - much as I condemn it - they were able to attempt to pin the blame on a few individual grunts on the ground. Obviously, with the Finucane murder, they must run the risk of opening a huge can of worms if they were to look into it properly.


  • #25
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    UDAWINNER wrote: »
    calling pat finucane scum is pretty low even for some posters. An innocent solicitor doing his job and he's murdered for it and he's the scum.

    There's an extreme right loyalist Irish-hating element on this website. They hate Irish nationhood, hate Irish people and love the Crown - failing to realise that the British establishment doesn't give a tuppeny happeny damn about them, viewing them as pathetic fodder. Which they are. It's plain weird, that self-hatred, a form of mental illness. Their spiritual heroes are the likes of Conor Cruise O'Brien and his ilk. I was reluctant to even click on the thread. Actually, having read it, it's not as bad as I feared.


  • #26
    costacorta
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭costacorta


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Sorry, I asked you to clarify what "sword" Pat Finnucane lived by?

    I repeat, he was murdered for no other reason than he worked as a lawyer and defended republicans in court, and he was murdered for that (as was Rosemary Nelson afterwards)

    You posted an absolutely ridiculous/disgraceful comment where you suggested Finnucane deserved to die because he worked as a lawyer and represented some republicans, I don't know about you, but I'd not be comfortable living in a state where you can't get legal defence because of your political beliefs, or actions, and similarly you might pay with your life as a lawyer for offering the same.

    Listen, you made a stupid post and I called you out on it, the follow up looks even more stupid in that context.

    Might be as well just not posting about stuff you know the square root of fcuk all about tbh.

    And you’re the expert on everything?in you own provo head maybe !As pointed out in another post Finucane was as much a target as a prison officer, or any other innocent victims murdered by your scummy friends . He was a well known republican but you will deny that like you deny Gerry was in the IRA as well . Maybe you need to take a break from posting 24/7 and go enjoy the good things in life rather than posting tripe day in day out ..Maybe have an inquiry to find out where ye buried jean Mc Conville ? Eh


  • #27
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    costacorta wrote: »
    And you’re the expert on everything?in you own provo head maybe !As pointed out in another post Finucane was as much a target as a prison officer, or any other innocent victims murdered by your scummy friends . He was a well known republican but you will deny that like you deny Gerry was in the IRA as well . Maybe you need to take a break from posting 24/7 and go enjoy the good things in life rather than posting tripe day in day out ..Maybe have an inquiry to find out where ye buried jean Mc Conville ? Eh

    Are you a UDA or UVF supporter?


  • #28
    costacorta
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭costacorta


    smurgen wrote: »
    Are you a UDA or UVF supporter?

    Are you an IRA supporter ?


  • #29
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    costacorta wrote: »
    And you’re the expert on everything?in you own provo head maybe !As pointed out in another post Finucane was as much a target as a prison officer, or any other innocent victims murderedby your scummy friends . He was a well known republican but you will deny that like you deny Gerry was in the IRA as well . Maybe you need to take a break from posting 24/7 and go enjoy the good things in life rather than posting tripe day in day out ..Maybe have an inquiry to find out where ye buried jean Mc Conville ? Eh

    I'd stop digging if I were you, now you're implying someone deserves to be murdered because they are a republican?

    I'm not, and never have, nor would I ever lower myself to try and justify a prison officers death the way you have with Finnucane, similarly I would never lower myself to refer to them as "scum" like you did with Finnucane.
    All just a bunch of terrorists who cry out when their scum are shot
    .

    Are you referring to Finnucane as "scum" because he was from a republican family, or because he had represented republicans (his firm had represented loyalists also), or is it because his son grew up to become a lawyer too like his murdered father, and simultaneously a Sinn Fein MP?

    Personally, I think your remarks are disgusting and you should take a long hard think about yourself.


  • #30
    costacorta
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭costacorta


    McMurphy wrote: »
    I'd stop digging if I were you, now you're implying someone deserves to be murdered because they are a republican?

    I'm not, and never have, nor would I ever lower myself to try and justify a prison officers death the way you have with Finnucane, similarly I would never lower myself to refer to them as "scum" like you did with Finnucane. .

    Are you referring to Finnucane as "scum" because he was from a republican family, or because he had represented republicans (his firm had represented loyalists also), or is it because his son grew up to become a lawyer too!! like his murdered father, and simultaneously a Sinn Fein MP?

    Personally, I think your remarks are disgusting and you should take a long hard think about yourself.

    I never called pat finucane scum !! I said IRA always crying foul when one of their Scum are shot . I stand over calling any IRA person scum and for that matter any other terrorist organisations Scum as well .


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  • #31
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    votecounts wrote: »
    Pathetic decision by the British Govt, could they not have the honourable thing and hold an enquiry for the sake of wife and children.

    Have you any idea whatsoever how an inquiry into this individual would be rubbing salt in the wounds of all those who have been murdered and no inquiry.
    People were targeted for delivering milk to a police station. What’s the difference on a lawyer defending terrorists.
    State agents were numerous in the ira killing many people simply because they were Protestant or served a police officer in a shop.
    In addition we have a current member of the NI executive who killed, tortured and organised terrorism yet no inquiry into him.
    People need to wise up singling out a middle class lawyer for special attention


  • #32
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    I don't believe an inquiry commissioned by the UK government would be allowed to get to anything like the truth. So, I actually welcome the decision. There is no point in setting up pretendy inquiries.

    Their push-back on setting up on inquiry, by contrast to, say, Bloody Sunday, suggests that the collusion extended to much more senior on the food chain than has been hitherto acknowledged. That's what they don't want coming out and in my view is the logical conclusion. With Bloody Sunday - much as I condemn it - they were able to attempt to pin the blame on a few individual grunts on the ground. Obviously, with the Finucane murder, they must run the risk of opening a huge can of worms if they were to look into it properly.

    Fantasy land stuff.
    Investigate the murderer in the current NI executive


  • #33
    gourcuff
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭gourcuff


    the british consistently show themselves to be utterly untrustworthy, willing to deceive, willing to break laws, willing to collude with terrorists to murder civilians,

    then they either cover up their involvement or refuse to investigate..

    The British Supreme Court ruled that the UK had failed to hold an "effective investigation" into the Belfast lawyer's death at the hands of loyalist paramilitaries...

    the only pressure the british understand is when the americans get involved, which i am sure they will now...


  • #34
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Should public inquiries be held into the TDs in the dail who arranged the sectarian murder of Protestants?
    If not, why not?


  • #35
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,939 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Sorry day for those who have defended the British presence in Ireland. Just as actual British citizens are finding out that they were fundamentally lied to about Brexit and what it meant (see ex pats and EU property owners as well as others) because the establishment wanted a certain outcome, now those loyal to them in Ireland have found out that the killing of a solicitor does not warrant inquiring into even though the evidence strongly suggests state involvement.
    Like Bloody Sunday and the various wrongful arrest cases this is just going to run in until they face up to it and do what makes a state different to those who attack it and examine themselves with no fear of the truth they might find.


  • #36
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,939 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    Should public inquiries be held into the TDs in the dail who arranged the sectarian murder of Protestants?
    If not, why not?

    Present the evidence in the way this family have and in the way the Bloody Sunday etc family did.
    If the highest court in the land directs that there should be an inquiry I think you would get one here.
    Nobody is going to act on a loyalist/unionist/republican insinuating stuff anonymously on the sidelines or an internet forum.


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  • #37
    Samsonsmasher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    McMurphy wrote: »
    I'd stop digging if I were you, now you're implying someone deserves to be murdered because they are a republican?

    I'm not, and never have, nor would I ever lower myself to try and justify a prison officers death the way you have with Finnucane, similarly I would never lower myself to refer to them as "scum" like you did with Finnucane. .

    Are you referring to Finnucane as "scum" because he was from a republican family, or because he had represented republicans (his firm had represented loyalists also), or is it because his son grew up to become a lawyer too like his murdered father, and simultaneously a Sinn Fein MP?

    Personally, I think your remarks are disgusting and you should take a long hard think about yourself.

    In a war anyone who is an enemy or collaborates with the enemy has to expect death.
    It didn't matter if a soldier is in uniform on armed patrol on the Falls Road or having pints in a pub in Birmingham.
    It didn't matter if a republican was sitting at home watching TV with his kids or armed with a gun attacking an RUC station.
    Pat Finucane was getting republicans off scot free who were going back to war as soon as they came out of prison.
    Too bad


  • #38
    Pasteur.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭Pasteur.


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    In a war anyone who is an enemy or collaborates with the enemy has to expect death.
    It didn't matter if a soldier is in uniform on armed patrol on the Falls Road or having pints in a pub in Birmingham.
    It didn't matter if a republican was sitting at home watching TV with his kids or armed with a gun attacking an RUC station.
    Pat Finucane was getting republicans off scot free who were going back to war as soon as they came out of prison.
    Too bad
    Summary

    He was doing his job so deserved to die


  • #39
    Samsonsmasher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    Pasteur. wrote: »
    Summary

    He was doing his job so deserved to die

    He was involved in the war like anyone else. Nobody deserves to die. He was a brave man who believed in his cause. There's no point being a crybaby. War is ugly.
    A generation on from the end of the conflict Protestant and Catholic young people socialize whereas if the war was still on they would be killing eachother.
    The majority of the British Army who were killed were boys in their late teens and early twenties and they were shooting at kids their own age.
    If the situation had been different they would have been drinking pints together.
    It's sad but it can't be helped.


  • #40
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,939 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    In a war anyone who is an enemy or collaborates with the enemy has to expect death.
    It didn't matter if a soldier is in uniform on armed patrol on the Falls Road or having pints in a pub in Birmingham.
    It didn't matter if a republican was sitting at home watching TV with his kids or armed with a gun attacking an RUC station.
    Pat Finucane was getting republicans off scot free who were going back to war as soon as they came out of prison.
    Too bad

    The British government need to say that though...not you.
    If that was the case then that must be the justification for it.


  • #41
    Samsonsmasher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The British government need to say that though...not you.
    If that was the case then that must be the justification for it.

    You can work it out for yourself and move on.
    The victims of IRA bomb and gun attacks have to forgive and move on.
    The war is over the troops are off the streets and a generation of young people have grown up in peace.
    Opening old wounds serves no purpose.
    Stop being bitter and move on.


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  • #42
    Pedro K
    Registered Users Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    He was involved in the war like anyone else. Nobody deserves to die. He was a brave man who believed in his cause. There's no point being a crybaby. War is ugly.
    A generation on from the end of the conflict Protestant and Catholic young people socialize whereas if the war was still on they would be killing eachother.
    The majority of the British Army who were killed were boys in their late teens and early twenties and they were shooting at kids their own age.
    If the situation had been different they would have been drinking pints together.
    It's sad but it can't be helped.
    Is the legal team representing Soldier F fair game?


  • #43
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,939 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    You can work it out for yourself and move on.
    The victims of IRA bomb and gun attacks have to forgive and move on.
    The war is over the troops are off the streets and a generation of young people have grown up in peace.
    Opening old wounds serves no purpose.
    Stop being bitter and move on.

    The 'IRA' have done more jail time than any other cohort involved in the conflict/war. They haven't walked away nor been forgiven, they are still liable if there is evidence against them.


  • #44
    Baggly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    costacorta wrote: »
    And you’re the expert on everything?in you own provo head maybe !As pointed out in another post Finucane was as much a target as a prison officer, or any other innocent victims murdered by your scummy friends . He was a well known republican but you will deny that like you deny Gerry was in the IRA as well . Maybe you need to take a break from posting 24/7 and go enjoy the good things in life rather than posting tripe day in day out ..Maybe have an inquiry to find out where ye buried jean Mc Conville ? Eh

    Mod

    Dont post in this thread again.


  • #45
    Samsonsmasher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    Pedro K wrote: »
    Is the legal team representing Soldier F fair game?

    The war is over now so not any more but back in the bad old days if the IRA could have taken F and his legal eagles out they would have no question about it.
    The paras who were blown up at Warrenpoint were from 3 Para and not 2 Para who actually shot people on Bloody Sunday and most of them would have been school kids in 1972.
    The IRA hit them to get back at their regiment for Bloody Sunday but more importantly because they were an elite unit - 3 Para later captured Goose Green in 1982 - and they took out senior officers.
    Taking out Finucane who came from a prominent IRA family was a devasrating blow to the higher ranks of SF/IRA. Finucane would undoubtedly have played a role in the peace process and today's Northern Ireland in later years.
    Anyone who lived through that time knew it was a war and called it a war and accepted the unwritten rules.


  • #46
    Samsonsmasher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The 'IRA' have done more jail time than any other cohort involved in the conflict/war. They haven't walked away nor been forgiven, they are still liable if there is evidence against them.

    I think anyone involved be they Brit loyalist or republican should not face legal repercussions anymore. It was a war and we should move on. We should have a Truth and Reconciliation Commission where everyone can come clean about what they did and who they killed and why and air it all out. Then move on for goodness sake.


  • #47
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,939 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    The war is over now so not any more but back in the bad old days if the IRA could have taken F and his legal eagles out they would have no question about it.
    The paras who were blown up at Warrenpoint were from 3 Para and not 2 Para who actually shot people on Bloody Sunday and most of them would have been school kids in 1972.
    The IRA hit them to get back at their regiment for Bloody Sunday but more importantly because they were an elite unit - 3 Para later captured Goose Green in 1982 - and they took out senior officers.
    Taking out Finucane who came from a prominent IRA family was a devasrating blow to the higher ranks of SF/IRA. Finucane would undoubtedly have played a role in the peace process and today's Northern Ireland in later years.
    Anyone who lived through that time knew it was a war and called it a war and accepted the unwritten rules.

    Again, if this is the case then the British need to say this and stop hiding.
    Why won't they say he was a legitimate target and move on.


    In other words, why are the British lying?


  • #48
    Samsonsmasher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Again, if this is the case then the British need to say this and stop hiding.
    Why won't they say he was a legitimate target and move on.


    In other words, why are the British lying?

    Because of legal repercussions for senior politicians beaucrats and senior intelligence and military officers from that time who signed off on the activities of the SAS, 14th Intelligence Company, the FRU and other groups in the security forces who worked hand and glove with loyalist groups. The majority of the people involved whether they were giving orders running operations or pulling triggers are long since retired and comfortably retired.
    We are talking about household names at cabinet level decorated veterans and at least one or two best selling novelists and prominent media personalities.

    Nobody will be convicted of the Bloody Sunday killings for the same reason. Michael Jackson who later was the British top general was a junior officer in Derry that day. F had a long career finishing up as senior noncom in the Paras. Several of the men were involved in plainclothes assassinations as well as patrolling in uniform in their official roles and a few served in the SAS and top secret undercover work.
    To keep that hush hush they were protected.


  • #49
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,939 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    Because of legal repercussions for senior politicians beaucrats and senior intelligence and military officers from that time who signed off on the activities of the SAS, 14th Intelligence Company, the FRU and other groups in the security forces who worked hand and glove with loyalist groups. The majority of the people involved whether they were giving orders running operations or pulling triggers are long since retired and comfortably retired.
    We are talking about household names at cabinet level decorated veterans and at least one or two best selling novelists and prominent media personalities.

    Nobody will be convicted of the Bloody Sunday killings for the same reason. Michael Jackson who later was the British top general was a junior officer in Derry that day. F had a long career finishing up as senior noncom in the Paras. Several of the men were involved in plainclothes assassinations as well as patrolling in uniform in their official roles and a few served in the SAS and top secret undercover work.
    To keep that hush hush they were protected.

    So cover-ups at the highest level.

    That's fine, you go ahead and live in that kind of state if you wish.

    The Irish will continue to fight to expose it. The UK's reputation is in tatters over Brexit. Looks like it isn't going to improve anytime soon.


  • #50
    The_Fitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 330 ✭✭The_Fitz


    Completely unsurprising result.

    Resistance from the British state on this case does not bode well for the future of legacy issues. This current British government is all about the protection of themselves, what message does that send out to victims? The British state considers people in the north to be their citizens. Facilitating and carrying out the murder of one of these citizens via a British state agent, to me means that a public inquiry needs to be held, and not simply delayed. The British government distinguish themselves from other actors of the conflict.

    We need to find a way of dealing with the past in order to progress. Letting bygones be bygones does not work. All victims deserve to hear the truth.


  • #51
    Samsonsmasher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    The_Fitz wrote: »
    Completely unsurprising result.

    Resistance from the British state on this case does not bode well for the future of legacy issues. This current British government is all about the protection of themselves, what message does that send out to victims? The British state considers people in the north to be their citizens. Facilitating and carrying out the murder of one of these citizens via a British state agent, to me means that a public inquiry needs to be held, and not simply delayed. The British government distinguish themselves from other actors of the conflict.

    We need to find a way of dealing with the past in order to progress. Letting bygones be bygones does not work. All victims deserve to hear the truth.

    That's utterly naive


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