Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Weight lifting advice?

  • 08-11-2020 11:56am
    #1
    MouseMan01
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭


    I'm M/42. Been working out this cycle for a little over a year. Got a fitbit a few months ago. Flagged the fact that I was eating way too little protein to add mass. Which is one of my goals.

    I do weight training for 50 mins, 4/5 days a week during lockdown. Started upping the tempo. Now squeeze the same session into 35mins.

    Lift a kettlebell. Super set and compound sets. I have 27% muscle and 24% fat. I also do cardio. Running and cycling 4/5 days a week. Very healthy diet.

    Question is this. Should I be cutting or bulking to add mass? Have healthy appetite. Boxed a bit when I was younger. Would like to do some more. So cardio and fitness is a must.

    Can anyone recommend an email newsletter or online resource containing tip, tricks and motivational content suited to my fitness plan?


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    MouseMan01 wrote: »
    I'm M/42. Been working out this cycle for a little over a year. Got a fitbit a few months ago. Flagged the fact that I was eating way too little protein to add mass. Which is one of my goals.

    I do weight training for 50 mins, 4/5 days a week during lockdown. Started upping the tempo. Now squeeze the same session into 35mins.

    Lift a kettlebell. Super set and compound sets. I have 27% muscle and 24% fat. I also do cardio. Running and cycling 4/5 days a week. Very healthy diet.

    Question is this. Should I be cutting or bulking to add mass? Have healthy appetite. Boxed a bit when I was younger. Would like to do some more. So cardio and fitness is a must.

    Can anyone recommend an email newsletter or online resource containing tip, tricks and motivational content suited to my fitness plan?

    If your priority is cardiovascular fitness and your training/exercising is directed towards that, then it's going to make putting on muscle mass a little more difficult.

    You need to be eating more calories than you burn (doesn't need to be by a mental amount) to build muscle and the more cardio you do, the more you burn and the more you need to eat.

    But aside from that, you need to be providing a sufficient stimulus for muscle to grow with the resistance training. It's not really measured by time spent doing it but more by what you do and intensity of effort.

    If you're weight training the same day as your cardio work, something has to give, ie if you put in enough work/effort then the cardio 'suffers' and vice versa. So how you structure your training is important.


  • #3
    Cill94
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    What Alf has said. If putting size on is your goal then cardio will have to take a backseat, particularly the running.

    And also I'd recommend you check out this thread:
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058104438


  • #4
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Should I be cutting or bulking to add mass?

    If you bulk you will still have to do a cut. Even a small one.

    Its unlikely you would only gain muscle. You will gain fat too. Most people during bulks don't really like the way they look.

    It really depends. Would cutting NOW make you look ridiculously thin or small etc?

    If so ...do a bulk.


  • #5
    MouseMan01
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭MouseMan01


    Not willing to give up my running I'm afraid. Especially since i hope to transition into boxing at some stage. Or maybe just boxing training.

    Still looking to put on some muscle. I'm 6 foot 3 inches and 93kg. Like i stated previously 24% body fat and 27% muscle.

    I'd describe myself as well-built. Not sure whether i should be looking to lose weight and get the body fat down to get more definition? Or put on weight and gain mass?

    Have a personal trainer but gym is shut ...


  • #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    When gyms reopen lift heavier weights..... Keep calories the same but increase protein.
    I'd structure the running to 3 times a week .... Do longer sessions.

    You won't get a bout at 42 surely?


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    MouseMan01 wrote: »
    Not willing to give up my running I'm afraid. Especially since i hope to transition into boxing at some stage. Or maybe just boxing training.

    Still looking to put on some muscle. I'm 6 foot 3 inches and 93kg. Like i stated previously 24% body fat and 27% muscle.

    I'd describe myself as well-built. Not sure whether i should be looking to lose weight and get the body fat down to get more definition? Or put on weight and gain mass?

    Have a personal trainer but gym is shut ...

    At 24% BF, then you should be looking at reducing that. You've aid yourself that your primary focus is fitness so forget about bulking. That doesn't mean you don't look to get stronger. It just means that if your primary goal is to run 4/5 times a week to improve fitness, then trying to bulk is like píssing in the wind.

    But by all means keep working at the weights, look to get stronger, put in hard work and that will pay dividends.


  • #8
    Cill94
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    MouseMan01 wrote: »
    Not willing to give up my running I'm afraid. Especially since i hope to transition into boxing at some stage. Or maybe just boxing training.

    Still looking to put on some muscle. I'm 6 foot 3 inches and 93kg. Like i stated previously 24% body fat and 27% muscle.

    I'd describe myself as well-built. Not sure whether i should be looking to lose weight and get the body fat down to get more definition? Or put on weight and gain mass?

    Have a personal trainer but gym is shut ...

    Never said you have to give up running, but your training needs to reflect your goals. For example I’m focused on gaining strength at the moment, so I only do 1-2 runs a week at an easy pace.

    Having said that, if you’re 24% bodyfat then you should probably avoid a bulk. Just getting stronger and cleaning up the diet will improve your body composition and health.


  • #9
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    OP something doesn't add up here.

    You say you have a healthy diet. You say you run and cycle 4 days a week. you say you do kettle bell super set and compound sets.

    Yet you are at 24% body fat??

    That doesn't make sense. Unless this is just recent as lifestyle.

    Are you being honest?


  • #10
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,839 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    OP something doesn't add up here.

    You say you have a healthy diet. You say you run and cycle 4 days a week. you say you do kettle bell super set and compound sets.

    Yet you are at 24% body fat??

    That doesn't make sense. Unless this is just recent as lifestyle.

    Are you being honest?

    Why doesn’t it make sense!? Op was simply in a calorie surplus and put on a few lbs. You can eat healthy and still put on weight


  • #11
    Black Sheep
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,149 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    Seems to me the OP is looking for something that many people are - he wants body recomposition. More lean muscle mass, less fat, and ideally at the same time.

    Doing both at once is possible but is mostly like to work out under supervision, particularly around diet.

    If the OP's bodyfat is 24% then before deciding what to do next might be worth knowing whether that's an upward trajectory, and since when. If it's been creeping up then at this point you are going to want to probably look at addressing that now. If it's been like that your whole adult life then maybe you can approach it from the other side with a focus on training and sports and see what happens for a while.

    Sooner or later, though, if you're serious about getting that % down then there will be no alternative to addressing diet. If it's as healthy as you say, and your activity levels are as high as you say, then at least you know this will be a a simple matter of calorie deficit based on portion control. Simple, not easy :pac:

    In terms of training and motivational material around that (Podcasts, articles, community) then I don't know why, but when I read the OP's posts I immediately thought of Joe DeFranco.

    He has a lot of programming that is suitable for someone who kind of wants to do it all, and has a mixture of focus on physique, functional strength and conditioning. I have known a bunch of guys in your boat who get really into his programming, particularly the ones where each workout is completely laid out for you.

    The only thing I'd say is that with DeFranco's programming, and most programming of this sort, you're not going to get it done in anything like 35 minutes per session. Maybe the conditioning days, but ... Assuming getting yourself squared away and minimally warmed-up takes you 10 minutes... Doubtful.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    MouseMan01
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭MouseMan01


    Black Sheep wrote: »
    Seems to me the OP is looking for something that many people are - he wants body recomposition. More lean muscle mass, less fat, and ideally at the same time.

    Doing both at once is possible but is mostly like to work out under supervision, particularly around diet.

    If the OP's bodyfat is 24% then before deciding what to do next might be worth knowing whether that's an upward trajectory, and since when. If it's been creeping up then at this point you are going to want to probably look at addressing that now. If it's been like that your whole adult life then maybe you can approach it from the other side with a focus on training and sports and see what happens for a while.

    Sooner or later, though, if you're serious about getting that % down then there will be no alternative to addressing diet. If it's as healthy as you say, and your activity levels are as high as you say, then at least you know this will be a a simple matter of calorie deficit based on portion control. Simple, not easy :pac:

    In terms of training and motivational material around that (Podcasts, articles, community) then I don't know why, but when I read the OP's posts I immediately thought of Joe DeFranco.

    He has a lot of programming that is suitable for someone who kind of wants to do it all, and has a mixture of focus on physique, functional strength and conditioning. I have known a bunch of guys in your boat who get really into his programming, particularly the ones where each workout is completely laid out for you.

    The only thing I'd say is that with DeFranco's programming, and most programming of this sort, you're not going to get it done in anything like 35 minutes per session. Maybe the conditioning days, but ... Assuming getting yourself squared away and minimally warmed-up takes you 10 minutes... Doubtful.

    Yeah. I do boxercise mostly. No bouts.

    You can put on weight eating vegetables too. Plus I drink alot of non-alcoholics and have a healthy appetite.

    Is be happy with getting the BF down for more definition.

    I only burn ~480 cals in 26 mins running. I should easily be able to make that up in terms of mass gain. Fitness is def. a major goal.

    Been at the same weight for the last year. Put on 10 kg when covid hit. Lost it again.

    Just started taking protein supplements. Have to see how that works out.


  • #13
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    MouseMan01 wrote: »
    Yeah. I do boxercise mostly. No bouts.

    You can put on weight eating vegetables too. Plus I drink alot of non-alcoholics and have a healthy appetite.

    Is be happy with getting the BF down for more definition.

    I only burn ~480 cals in 26 mins running. I should easily be able to make that up in terms of mass gain. Fitness is def. a major goal.

    Been at the same weight for the last year. Put on 10 kg when covid hit. Lost it again.

    Just started taking protein supplements. Have to see how that works out.

    Its fairly hard to overeat on vegetables all the same. Saying you have a healthy diet is one thing but if you're 24% then there's enough room to improve and reduce that. That isn't at odds with getting stronger but if your primary focus is fitness then shaving off body fat will help.


  • #14
    MouseMan01
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭MouseMan01


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Its fairly hard to overeat on vegetables all the same. Saying you have a healthy diet is one thing but if you're 24% then there's enough room to improve and reduce that. That isn't at odds with getting stronger but if your primary focus is fitness then shaving off body fat will help.

    Thanks Alf.


  • #15
    MouseMan01
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭MouseMan01


    Augeo wrote: »
    When gyms reopen lift heavier weights..... Keep calories the same but increase protein.
    I'd structure the running to 3 times a week .... Do longer sessions.

    You won't get a bout at 42 surely?

    I've heard the old adage. Lift heavier weights with higher reps to put on muscle. Also heard that it's the fastest way to get injured.

    And that you should work on form and do negatives instead.

    Others say you'll only put on muscle by doing compound exercises.

    Is there a good youtube video on lifting perhaps? Also one on road running would be useful.


  • #16
    Patsy167
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    Two posts from Reddit that you might find useful:

    I often refer back to this post from Reddit for a reminder/reset - https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/4pl3yc/things_i_wish_i_knew_8_years_ago/

    This post has a good breakdown on Volume, intensity and frequency:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/naturalbodybuilding/comments/fivvhv/the_quarantine_workout_template/


  • #17
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    MouseMan01 wrote: »
    I've heard the old adage. Lift heavier weights with higher reps to put on muscle. Also heard that it's the fastest way to get injured.

    And that you should work on form and do negatives instead.

    Others say you'll only put on muscle by doing compound exercises.

    Is there a good youtube video on lifting perhaps? Also one on road running would be useful.

    You don't lift heavier and for more reps. If you were do be doing sets of 8, for example, you'd be using 70-75% of your 1-rep max. Fewer reps, higher percentage; more reps, then lower.

    People get injured often because they do too many reps with a weight that's too heavy (too close to failure). You need to use a challenging weight but one where your technique is correct. The closer you get to actual failure, the more risk of your technique failing and if you're doing multiple reps of a weight with or technique, the more at risk you are of injury. So avoid that by using an appropriate weight for the number of reps.

    No need to do just negatives when you can do an exercise properly.

    You don't have to only do compounds...its a good idea to do compounds and some isolation exercises as well. Bodybuilders don't just use compounds and they don't just do isolation exercises and it's their business to build muscle.


  • #18
    MouseMan01
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭MouseMan01


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    You don't lift heavier and for more reps. If you were do be doing sets of 8, for example, you'd be using 70-75% of your 1-rep max. Fewer reps, higher percentage; more reps, then lower.

    People get injured often because they do too many reps with a weight that's too heavy (too close to failure). You need to use a challenging weight but one where your technique is correct. The closer you get to actual failure, the more risk of your technique failing and if you're doing multiple reps of a weight with or technique, the more at risk you are of injury. So avoid that by using an appropriate weight for the number of reps.

    No need to do just negatives when you can do an exercise properly.

    You don't have to only do compounds...its a good idea to do compounds and some isolation exercises as well. Bodybuilders don't just use compounds and they don't just do isolation exercises and it's their business to build muscle.

    Thanks alf.

    At home I only have 2 kettlebells (20kg and 16kg) and 1 dumbbell (13.5kg).

    I'm less limited in the gym.

    At home I try to do less reps with better form. Or in other words really get the 'stretch and flex' muscle technique going.

    I do press ups and stomach crunches as well as free weights. But i find it difficult to build my core and legs at home.

    No idea what my RM is because I'd need a gym to find that out.


  • #19
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    When you say you do less reps...how do you gauge the number of reps?


  • #20
    MouseMan01
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭MouseMan01


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    When you say you do less reps...how do you gauge the number of reps?

    Not sure I understand the question alf.

    I aim for 10-12 'clean' reps with the heavier dumbbell. Sometimes more. Sometimes less.

    Varies by exercise.


  • #21
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    MouseMan01 wrote: »
    Not sure I understand the question alf.

    I aim for 10-12 'clean' reps with the heavier dumbbell. Sometimes more. Sometimes less.

    Varies by exercise.

    Ok, just had no context. Just didn't quite get what you meant by less reps and what was the point you would decide to stop.

    Just because doing too few relative to what you could actually do would be less efficient than it could be.

    Just FWIW, your training max should be what you can do with good form rather than what you could do if you needed to grind with a little slippage in technique


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    Why doesn’t it make sense!? Op was simply in a calorie surplus and put on a few lbs. You can eat healthy and still put on weight
    A calorie surplus is NOT healthy.

    Im not sure why anyone would think it was.

    Someone not intending to put on weight ..is not healthy eating if they are in an unintentional surplus.

    That would be 'i eat too much of the right kind of foods'.

    Which tbh is hard given their bulk. The protein bar types however ....that is another story.


  • #23
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,839 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    A calorie surplus is NOT healthy.

    Im not sure why anyone would think it was.

    Someone not intending to put on weight ..is not healthy eating if they are in an unintentional surplus.

    That would be 'i eat too much of the right kind of foods'.

    Which tbh is hard given their bulk. The protein bar types however ....that is another story.

    So, a calorie surplus is not healthy? Even if the goal is to build muscle?

    The rest of your post I’m not following at all


  • #24
    Cill94
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    A calorie surplus is NOT healthy.

    Why?


  • #25
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Cill94 wrote: »
    Why?

    I think her point was more about the intention as opposed to being in a caloric surplus in and of itself.

    Being in a surplus is fine if you're bulking and it'd intentional but there are a lot of people that are overweight, and not particularly healthy, who are not intentionally in a surplus.

    But it also doesn't mean someone is unhealthy because they are unintentionally in a caloric surplus


  • #26
    Cill94
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    I think her point was more about the intention as opposed to being in a caloric surplus in and of itself.

    I understand the intention, but the statement is inaccurate and misleading for someone who is coming on here looking for science-based info.

    Calorie surplus is not the issue, being above healthy bodyfat is. There are plenty of people who would be healthier by doing a temporary calorie surplus paired with training.


  • #27
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Cill94 wrote: »
    I understand the intention, but the statement is inaccurate and misleading for someone who is coming on here looking for science-based info.

    Calorie surplus is not the issue, being above healthy bodyfat is. There are plenty of people who would be healthier by doing a temporary calorie surplus paired with training.

    I don't disagree. Just trying to understand what was said and understand the intention behind it as opposed to supporting it.


  • #28
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Cill94 wrote: »
    Why?
    Its put him at 24% bodyfat.

    He is not using it up. He is not building muscle etc.


  • #29
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    I think her point was more about the intention as opposed to being in a caloric surplus in and of itself.

    Being in a surplus is fine if you're bulking and it'd intentional but there are a lot of people that are overweight, and not particularly healthy, who are not intentionally in a surplus.

    But it also doesn't mean someone is unhealthy because they are unintentionally in a caloric surplus
    IMO no beginners should bulk.

    They can't.

    They don't know what they are doing. And its questionable as to whether someone not trained to lift heavy without injury actually can do enough to build muscle at that rate.

    Lift for a year first ..then bulk.

    Also most bulks ..do put some people into an unhealthy bodyfat range for a while. Its still often not healthy. Partic if they started at an unhealthy range too.

    Also ..a lot of people just fall off the wagon.....stop working out ...after a bulk.

    Its not something most ordinary people are passionate about.

    Telling the general population to eat in calorie surplus etc is not a good idea.

    And a lot of people in gyms are just the general population. They are not bodybuilders etc or people in the habit of doing it for years. those people don't actually have weight issues.

    A bulk is a measured calories surplus ..often very very small.....not a general one ...

    I have a friend who has just been eating an extra 200 calories a day each day for 4 months. Its been enough to do it. She has been into bodybuilding for years.

    Advice has to be aimed at the person receiving it.


  • #30
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    IMO no beginners should bulk.

    They can't.

    They don't know what they are doing. And its questionable as to whether someone not trained to lift heavy without injury actually can do enough to build muscle at that rate.

    Lift for a year first ..then bulk.

    Also most bulks ..do put some people into an unhealthy bodyfat range for a while. Its still often not healthy. Partic if they started at an unhealthy range too.

    Also ..a lot of people just fall off the wagon.....stop working out ...after a bulk.

    Its not something most ordinary people are passionate about.

    Telling the general population to eat in calorie surplus etc is not a good idea.

    And a lot of people in gyms are just the general population. They are not bodybuilders etc or people in the habit of doing it for years. those people don't actually have weight issues.

    A bulk is a measured calories surplus ..often very very small.....not a general one ...

    I have a friend who has just been eating an extra 200 calories a day each day for 4 months. Its been enough to do it. She has been into bodybuilding for years.

    Advice has to be aimed at the person receiving it.

    No one has suggested he should bulk.

    Not a single person in this thread has suggested the OP should bulk.


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    No one has suggested he should bulk.

    Not a single person in this thread has suggested the OP should bulk.

    I know.
    That is what a planned calorie surplus is.

    I was asked why I thought someone suggesting calorie surpluses for most people are unhealthy.

    Mostly they are unplanned. But even bulking or planned calorie surplus for the general public is not necessary or done well.
    So, a calorie surplus is not healthy? Even if the goal is to build muscle?

    This would be a bulk. Unsure whether the post was suggesting this to the OP or speaking in general.


  • #32
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    I know.
    That is what a planned calorie surplus is.

    I was asked why I thought someone suggesting calorie surpluses for most people are unhealthy.

    Mostly they are unplanned. But even bulking or planned calorie surplus for the general public is not necessary or done well.



    This would be a bulk. Unsure whether the post was suggesting this to the OP or speaking in general.

    They were asking in the context of building muscle. That was clear.

    I understand your point but you need to be a bit clearer if you're making a long post.


  • #33
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    They were asking in the context of building muscle. That was clear.

    I understand your point but you need to be a bit clearer if you're making a long post.
    This has always been a fault of mine.

    My brain is very scatty info comes all at once. I shall try and organize it more. Apologies.


  • #34
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    This has always been a fault of mine.

    My brain is very scatty info comes all at once. I shall try and organize it more. Apologies.

    No need to apologise to me. You want to be a PT....think of someone you're responding to as a client and try to respond to what is said clearly and concisely.


  • #35
    Godeatsboogers
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭Godeatsboogers


    Muscle grows in proportion to fat so youre in a good position for muscle growth. You should be doing 5 sets, 5 reps of decent weight for muscle growth, 4 sets of 8 reps for growth/toning, 4 sets of 10 or 12 for toning. Plus your diet has to be spot on, protein, carbs, good fats, get rid of chocolate and crisps, you'll find your body is ****ting out the nutrients you need when you're eating that stuff.


  • #36
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    No need to apologise to me. You want to be a PT....think of someone you're responding to as a client and try to respond to what is said clearly and concisely.

    Yeah I get you.

    You can SEE clients in front of you though. You have a better idea. You can take measurements etc. You get a better idea of their level of knowledge fitness etc. You can see the real problems better.

    EVERYTHING is harder online. I am dealing with this now in lockdown!
    Godeatsboogers
    Muscle grows in proportion to fat so youre in a good position for muscle growth.

    This depends. Someone naturally endomorphic yes. Much more prone to gain fat but also has the upside to gain muscle well as opposed to ectomorphic.

    That stocky build type.

    The OP is 42 though. I doubt he was at that body fat naturally as a 25 yr old. Its MUCH easier to gain fat as you age and harder to build muscle even for men. I would say its less in proportion as you age.

    Like it or not we lose muscle mass after 40 and its harder to keep on and build. Still very possible but harder. And much easier to gain fat.

    Your other advice is spot on though. Reps diet etc. Partic after 40 ..diet has to be perfect . He won't necessarily have the ability to grow muscle in proportion to his body's ability to gain fat at 42 though.


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Yeah I get you.

    You can SEE clients in front of you though. You have a better idea. You can take measurements etc. You get a better idea of their level of knowledge fitness etc. You can see the real problems better.

    EVERYTHING is harder online. I am dealing with this now in lockdown!

    It's not about what you can see etc. It's about how you communicate. You will always need to be able to communicate remotely.


  • #38
    new2tri19
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    I got great advice here so i'll just add that i do triathlon and was mainly a runner before that. I have always been tin and figured id never put on mass because of all the cardio i do. Between asking questions here and some googling i really wasn't eating enough protein or food in general. I bought a barbell and weights and have been consciously eating more protein and eating more in general even when not hungry careful to never miss a meal.

    I found a plan called GZCLP on reddit and have been following that. I'm on week 10 of that plan and have gone from 67kg to 83kg . I am not shredded don't have a six pack but am noticeably bigger the majority of people i meet now would comment on the fact that i have bulked up. Im starting to see really good definition in chest arms shoulders (not so much legs) .
    I'm 40 myself so its possible for us older guys ! I still run 3 hours a week now and bike 4-5 hours and will be swimming 1-2 hours when pools open again. I did drop the cardio in the first few weeks to give my body a chance to absord the new training and i watch what i do now so i don't do my hard run intervals after deadlifts or squats. I just have to keep reminding myself to eat more.


  • #39
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,602 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Its put him at 24% bodyfat.

    He is not using it up. He is not building muscle etc.
    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    I was asked why I thought someone suggesting calorie surpluses for most people are unhealthy.
    I'm genuinely sure that's what you meant to say in reference to the OP - but it's not what you actually said.
    There was no "most people", or "overweight people".
    You said that all calorie surpluses are unhealthy.

    Maybe you where fixated on the OP being 24%. And Alf took the time to point out the difference. But other posters were right to point out that your blanket statement was factually incorrect.
    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    IMO no beginners should bulk.

    They can't.

    They don't know what they are doing. And its questionable as to whether someone not trained to lift heavy without injury actually can do enough to build muscle at that rate.

    This is another blanket statement and also incorrect.
    I think you should maybe try to speak more in general terms, and less so in absolutes.

    Most beginners should not bulk, and should just train.
    But somebody who is severely underweight is much better off increasing their calories sooner. Waiting is no benefit.

    Injury risk is not a relevant. The weights they lift in the gym is independent to calorie intake.


  • #40
    Cill94
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    IMO no beginners should bulk.

    They can't.

    This is just nonsense.
    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    They don't know what they are doing. And its questionable as to whether someone not trained to lift heavy without injury actually can do enough to build muscle at that rate.

    First part is reasonable to argue, second part is easily refuted by all of the research on resistance-trained beginners.
    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Lift for a year first ..then bulk.

    You're assuming people are going to be eating enough to progress for that full year.
    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Also most bulks ..do put some people into an unhealthy bodyfat range for a while. Its still often not healthy. Partic if they started at an unhealthy range too.

    So just don't start at an unhealthy range, and give people the information to do it properly. A male going from 15 to 18% bodyfat is not a significant risk to health if they are training hard and eating well. Meanwhile, neither myself or anyone else in this thread has recommended the OP do a bulk since we learned he's at 24%.
    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Also ..a lot of people just fall off the wagon.....stop working out ...after a bulk.

    Its not something most ordinary people are passionate about.

    Telling the general population to eat in calorie surplus etc is not a good idea.

    And a lot of people in gyms are just the general population. They are not bodybuilders etc or people in the habit of doing it for years. those people don't actually have weight issues.

    So it sounds like what you're saying is, some people won't effectively implement useful info, so we just won't dispense it at all?

    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Advice has to be aimed at the person receiving it.

    Couldn't agree more, but you didn't aim the advice at him.

    You made a blanket statement about a calorie surplus being unhealthy.

    This is an issue not just because it's wrong, but because it's these kind of lazy statements that create the many fitness myths that lead people down the wrong path. The end result is me trying to convince a dangerously underweight woman to do a temporary bulk, but she won't because she heard the 'nutritionist' on RTE say a calorie surplus is unhealthy.


  • #41
    Patsy167
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    new2tri19 wrote: »
    I got great advice here so i'll just add that i do triathlon and was mainly a runner before that. I have always been tin and figured id never put on mass because of all the cardio i do. Between asking questions here and some googling i really wasn't eating enough protein or food in general. I bought a barbell and weights and have been consciously eating more protein and eating more in general even when not hungry careful to never miss a meal.

    I found a plan called GZCLP on reddit and have been following that. I'm on week 10 of that plan and have gone from 67kg to 83kg . I am not shredded don't have a six pack but am noticeably bigger the majority of people i meet now would comment on the fact that i have bulked up. Im starting to see really good definition in chest arms shoulders (not so much legs) .
    I'm 40 myself so its possible for us older guys ! I still run 3 hours a week now and bike 4-5 hours and will be swimming 1-2 hours when pools open again. I did drop the cardio in the first few weeks to give my body a chance to absord the new training and i watch what i do now so i don't do my hard run intervals after deadlifts or squats. I just have to keep reminding myself to eat more.

    week 10 of that plan and have gone from 67kg to 83kg

    Not trying to knock your results in any way but are you sure on the above numbers. Most lads would take 15lb of muscle in a year. Appreciate that the gains to be made are greater for beginners but the above seems way too quick to be mainly muscle and not that sustainable.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    new2tri19
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    Patsy167 wrote: »
    week 10 of that plan and have gone from 67kg to 83kg

    Not trying to knock your results in any way but are you sure on the above numbers. Most lads would take 15lb of muscle in a year. Appreciate that the gains to be made are greater for beginners but the above seems way too quick to be mainly muscle and not that sustainable.

    It's surprising to me too , the weight gain has slowed as the weeks progressed . I think I may have only gained 1-2kg in the last 3 weeks. I doubt it's all muscle and not suggesting it is either, my muscles have all gotten bigger and I look more defined. My legs still seem thin but are all muscle.
    As I said first few weeks I cut cardio right back so I imagine had I not lifted at all I probably would have gained weight anyway. Pre starting weights if get up cycle to work have a bowl of cereal and tea at 10am , run lunch time for an hour , quick sandwich then cycle home , swim later and a dinner and a bar chocolate and tea then bed. So I was probably way under eating.
    Nowadays it's porridge with protein milk and protein granola ,2 eggs and brown bread for breakfast pre cycle to work . At 10am I'd have a protein bar with tea and a banana, still run at lunch but have a chicken fillet rap or tuna bagel and more fruit for lunch . An afternoon protein milk before cycle home , then dinner as normal , a workout in shed and a protein shake or peanut butter sandwich before bed.
    Previously I was tired all the time hitting the pool I'd be dodging hard sets in favour of easy aerobic sets same with run as bike , I feel like I was definitely in a caloric deficit each day and probably low testosterone or something. I've no clue if that's what helped me gain weight so fast but my instinct is that my body needed the weight so held onto it .
    As I've started to ramp back up cardio and maintaining what I'm eating I'm noticing I'm hungrier now and it's no an effort to eat more. My weight is stabilizing now around 82-84kg these last few weeks , I'd guess that when I'm training for half Ironman next year race weight will be close to 80kg which I'll be happy with. It will be hard to keep weight when I start doing 3 hours bike rides and longer runs.


  • #43
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,839 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    Godeatsboogers wrote: »
    Muscle grows in proportion to fat so youre in a good position for muscle growth. You should be doing 5 sets, 5 reps of decent weight for muscle growth, 4 sets of 8 reps for growth/toning, 4 sets of 10 or 12 for toning. Plus your diet has to be spot on, protein, carbs, good fats, get rid of chocolate and crisps, you'll find your body is ****ting out the nutrients you need when you're eating that stuff.

    Can you delete this please....it’s hurting my brain


  • #44
    Patsy167
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    new2tri19 wrote: »
    It's surprising to me too , the weight gain has slowed as the weeks progressed . I think I may have only gained 1-2kg in the last 3 weeks. I doubt it's all muscle and not suggesting it is either, my muscles have all gotten bigger and I look more defined. My legs still seem thin but are all muscle.
    As I said first few weeks I cut cardio right back so I imagine had I not lifted at all I probably would have gained weight anyway. Pre starting weights if get up cycle to work have a bowl of cereal and tea at 10am , run lunch time for an hour , quick sandwich then cycle home , swim later and a dinner and a bar chocolate and tea then bed. So I was probably way under eating.
    Nowadays it's porridge with protein milk and protein granola ,2 eggs and brown bread for breakfast pre cycle to work . At 10am I'd have a protein bar with tea and a banana, still run at lunch but have a chicken fillet rap or tuna bagel and more fruit for lunch . An afternoon protein milk before cycle home , then dinner as normal , a workout in shed and a protein shake or peanut butter sandwich before bed.
    Previously I was tired all the time hitting the pool I'd be dodging hard sets in favour of easy aerobic sets same with run as bike , I feel like I was definitely in a caloric deficit each day and probably low testosterone or something. I've no clue if that's what helped me gain weight so fast but my instinct is that my body needed the weight so held onto it .
    As I've started to ramp back up cardio and maintaining what I'm eating I'm noticing I'm hungrier now and it's no an effort to eat more. My weight is stabilizing now around 82-84kg these last few weeks , I'd guess that when I'm training for half Ironman next year race weight will be close to 80kg which I'll be happy with. It will be hard to keep weight when I start doing 3 hours bike rides and longer runs.

    :eek: Good on you for making the changes. I'm sure your body is thanking you for it too. I can't imagine it was too happy with your old routine.

    I remember listening to a podcast on Danny Lennons Sigma Nutrition on someone who was combining either bodybuilding or Powerlifting and marathon training. Certainly not easy, but it can be done.

    Onwards and upwards with your training!


  • #45
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Patsy167 wrote: »
    I remember listening to a podcast on Danny Lennons Sigma Nutrition on someone who was combining either bodybuilding or Powerlifting and marathon training. Certainly not easy, but it can be done.

    Is that a few years old, that episode?

    Possibly Alex Viada...Greg Nuckols had an article about him or it was a guest article by him and how he combined that level of cardio with lifting.


  • #46
    Patsy167
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Is that a few years old, that episode?

    Possibly Alex Viada...Greg Nuckols had an article about him or it was a guest article by him and how he combined that level of cardio with lifting.

    Alex Viada - That's exactly the one. Good memory!

    Links below if anyone is interested in how he does it and the resources mentioned.

    https://sigmanutrition.com/episode53/#:~:text=Alex%20Viada%2C%20NSCA%20Certified%20Strength,with%20athletes%20with%20a%20disability.


  • #47
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Patsy167 wrote: »
    Alex Viada - That's exactly the one. Good memory!

    Links below if anyone is interested in how he does it and the resources mentioned.

    https://sigmanutrition.com/episode53/#:~:text=Alex%20Viada%2C%20NSCA%20Certified%20Strength,with%20athletes%20with%20a%20disability.

    Here's one of the articles on Stronger By Science (or Strengtheory as it was then)


  • #48
    Godeatsboogers
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭Godeatsboogers


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    Can you delete this please....it’s hurting my brain

    Why? The info is accurate and relevant. Maybe you're gonna have a stroke, no need to bring me into it, consult a physician


  • #49
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,839 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    Godeatsboogers wrote: »
    Why? The info is accurate and relevant. Maybe you're gonna have a stroke, no need to bring me into it, consult a physician

    I don’t know where to start. It sounds like sports science from slimming world.
    5 sets of 5 will develop strength. It’s primarily for strength. It’s a set/rep program known the world over for beginner strength training.
    Getting up to 8-12 reps will be more for growth, if you’re in a calorie surplus. You don’t need to be ‘spot on’ with nutrition unless you’re a competitive bodybuilder. As for toning.........


  • #50
    Godeatsboogers
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭Godeatsboogers


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    I don’t know where to start. It sounds like sports science from slimming world.
    5 sets of 5 will develop strength. It’s primarily for strength. It’s a set/rep program known the world over for beginner strength training.
    Getting up to 8-12 reps will be more for growth, if you’re in a calorie surplus. You don’t need to be ‘spot on’ with nutrition unless you’re a competitive bodybuilder. As for toning.........

    5 sets of 5 reps of high weight will promote muscle growth, so I've been told by a pretty big bloke who's been weightlifting for over 20 years. The diet tip came from Dorian Yates, and sure he was a professional but he says even for non professionals a diet minus junk food is a big help in gaining weight, muscle mass. As for toning? Pretty common knowledge that 4 sets of the 10 to 12 reps of light weight is great for toning. Also, this ... Is an elipsis, .........., this means nothing


  • #51
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,839 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    Godeatsboogers wrote: »
    5 sets of 5 reps of high weight will promote muscle growth, so I've been told by a pretty big bloke who's been weightlifting for over 20 years. The diet tip came from Dorian Yates, and sure he was a professional but he says even for non professionals a diet minus junk food is a big help in gaining weight, muscle mass. As for toning? Pretty common knowledge that 4 sets of the 10 to 12 reps of light weight is great for toning. Also, this ... Is an elipsis, .........., this means nothing

    Ok, toning is a term used by soccer moms. Sets of 10-12 reps is for muscle growth, and nothing else, if the weight is challenging. If the weight is light at that rep range then it’s called a warmup.
    Sets of 5x5 will promote some muscle growth, but is primarily used for strength training. Theres a book called starting strength, look it up. Of course a clean diets is optimal, but it doesn’t have to be to gain muscle. It only needs to be spot on if you’re a competitive bodybuilder/athlete, as I already said.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement