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Weight lifting advice?

MouseMan01

I'm M/42. Been working out this cycle for a little over a year. Got a fitbit a few months ago. Flagged the fact that I was eating way too little protein to add mass. Which is one of my goals.

I do weight training for 50 mins, 4/5 days a week during lockdown. Started upping the tempo. Now squeeze the same session into 35mins.

Lift a kettlebell. Super set and compound sets. I have 27% muscle and 24% fat. I also do cardio. Running and cycling 4/5 days a week. Very healthy diet.

Question is this. Should I be cutting or bulking to add mass? Have healthy appetite. Boxed a bit when I was younger. Would like to do some more. So cardio and fitness is a must.

Can anyone recommend an email newsletter or online resource containing tip, tricks and motivational content suited to my fitness plan?

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Cill94

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

IMO no beginners should bulk.

They can't.

This is just nonsense.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They don't know what they are doing. And its questionable as to whether someone not trained to lift heavy without injury actually can do enough to build muscle at that rate.

First part is reasonable to argue, second part is easily refuted by all of the research on resistance-trained beginners.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Lift for a year first ..then bulk.

You're assuming people are going to be eating enough to progress for that full year.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Also most bulks ..do put some people into an unhealthy bodyfat range for a while. Its still often not healthy. Partic if they started at an unhealthy range too.

So just don't start at an unhealthy range, and give people the information to do it properly. A male going from 15 to 18% bodyfat is not a significant risk to health if they are training hard and eating well. Meanwhile, neither myself or anyone else in this thread has recommended the OP do a bulk since we learned he's at 24%.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Also ..a lot of people just fall off the wagon.....stop working out ...after a bulk.

Its not something most ordinary people are passionate about.

Telling the general population to eat in calorie surplus etc is not a good idea.

And a lot of people in gyms are just the general population. They are not bodybuilders etc or people in the habit of doing it for years. those people don't actually have weight issues.

So it sounds like what you're saying is, some people won't effectively implement useful info, so we just won't dispense it at all?

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Advice has to be aimed at the person receiving it.

Couldn't agree more, but you didn't aim the advice at him.

You made a blanket statement about a calorie surplus being unhealthy.

This is an issue not just because it's wrong, but because it's these kind of lazy statements that create the many fitness myths that lead people down the wrong path. The end result is me trying to convince a dangerously underweight woman to do a temporary bulk, but she won't because she heard the 'nutritionist' on RTE say a calorie surplus is unhealthy.

Mellor

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its put him at 24% bodyfat.

He is not using it up. He is not building muscle etc.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I was asked why I thought someone suggesting calorie surpluses for most people are unhealthy.

I'm genuinely sure that's what you meant to say in reference to the OP - but it's not what you actually said.
There was no "most people", or "overweight people".
You said that all calorie surpluses are unhealthy.

Maybe you where fixated on the OP being 24%. And Alf took the time to point out the difference. But other posters were right to point out that your blanket statement was factually incorrect.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

IMO no beginners should bulk.

They can't.

They don't know what they are doing. And its questionable as to whether someone not trained to lift heavy without injury actually can do enough to build muscle at that rate.

This is another blanket statement and also incorrect.
I think you should maybe try to speak more in general terms, and less so in absolutes.

Most beginners should not bulk, and should just train.
But somebody who is severely underweight is much better off increasing their calories sooner. Waiting is no benefit.

Injury risk is not a relevant. The weights they lift in the gym is independent to calorie intake.

new2tri19

I got great advice here so i'll just add that i do triathlon and was mainly a runner before that. I have always been tin and figured id never put on mass because of all the cardio i do. Between asking questions here and some googling i really wasn't eating enough protein or food in general. I bought a barbell and weights and have been consciously eating more protein and eating more in general even when not hungry careful to never miss a meal.

I found a plan called GZCLP on reddit and have been following that. I'm on week 10 of that plan and have gone from 67kg to 83kg . I am not shredded don't have a six pack but am noticeably bigger the majority of people i meet now would comment on the fact that i have bulked up. Im starting to see really good definition in chest arms shoulders (not so much legs) .
I'm 40 myself so its possible for us older guys ! I still run 3 hours a week now and bike 4-5 hours and will be swimming 1-2 hours when pools open again. I did drop the cardio in the first few weeks to give my body a chance to absord the new training and i watch what i do now so i don't do my hard run intervals after deadlifts or squats. I just have to keep reminding myself to eat more.

Alf Veedersane

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Yeah I get you.

You can SEE clients in front of you though. You have a better idea. You can take measurements etc. You get a better idea of their level of knowledge fitness etc. You can see the real problems better.

EVERYTHING is harder online. I am dealing with this now in lockdown!

It's not about what you can see etc. It's about how you communicate. You will always need to be able to communicate remotely.

ILoveYourVibes

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

No need to apologise to me. You want to be a PT....think of someone you're responding to as a client and try to respond to what is said clearly and concisely.

Yeah I get you.

You can SEE clients in front of you though. You have a better idea. You can take measurements etc. You get a better idea of their level of knowledge fitness etc. You can see the real problems better.

EVERYTHING is harder online. I am dealing with this now in lockdown!

Godeatsboogers
Muscle grows in proportion to fat so youre in a good position for muscle growth.

This depends. Someone naturally endomorphic yes. Much more prone to gain fat but also has the upside to gain muscle well as opposed to ectomorphic.

That stocky build type.

The OP is 42 though. I doubt he was at that body fat naturally as a 25 yr old. Its MUCH easier to gain fat as you age and harder to build muscle even for men. I would say its less in proportion as you age.

Like it or not we lose muscle mass after 40 and its harder to keep on and build. Still very possible but harder. And much easier to gain fat.

Your other advice is spot on though. Reps diet etc. Partic after 40 ..diet has to be perfect . He won't necessarily have the ability to grow muscle in proportion to his body's ability to gain fat at 42 though.

Godeatsboogers

Muscle grows in proportion to fat so youre in a good position for muscle growth. You should be doing 5 sets, 5 reps of decent weight for muscle growth, 4 sets of 8 reps for growth/toning, 4 sets of 10 or 12 for toning. Plus your diet has to be spot on, protein, carbs, good fats, get rid of chocolate and crisps, you'll find your body is ****ting out the nutrients you need when you're eating that stuff.

Alf Veedersane

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

This has always been a fault of mine.

My brain is very scatty info comes all at once. I shall try and organize it more. Apologies.

No need to apologise to me. You want to be a PT....think of someone you're responding to as a client and try to respond to what is said clearly and concisely.

ILoveYourVibes

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

They were asking in the context of building muscle. That was clear.

I understand your point but you need to be a bit clearer if you're making a long post.

This has always been a fault of mine.

My brain is very scatty info comes all at once. I shall try and organize it more. Apologies.

Alf Veedersane

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I know.
That is what a planned calorie surplus is.

I was asked why I thought someone suggesting calorie surpluses for most people are unhealthy.

Mostly they are unplanned. But even bulking or planned calorie surplus for the general public is not necessary or done well.

This would be a bulk. Unsure whether the post was suggesting this to the OP or speaking in general.

They were asking in the context of building muscle. That was clear.

I understand your point but you need to be a bit clearer if you're making a long post.

ILoveYourVibes

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

No one has suggested he should bulk.

Not a single person in this thread has suggested the OP should bulk.

I know.
That is what a planned calorie surplus is.

I was asked why I thought someone suggesting calorie surpluses for most people are unhealthy.

Mostly they are unplanned. But even bulking or planned calorie surplus for the general public is not necessary or done well.

So, a calorie surplus is not healthy? Even if the goal is to build muscle?

This would be a bulk. Unsure whether the post was suggesting this to the OP or speaking in general.

Alf Veedersane

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

IMO no beginners should bulk.

They can't.

They don't know what they are doing. And its questionable as to whether someone not trained to lift heavy without injury actually can do enough to build muscle at that rate.

Lift for a year first ..then bulk.

Also most bulks ..do put some people into an unhealthy bodyfat range for a while. Its still often not healthy. Partic if they started at an unhealthy range too.

Also ..a lot of people just fall off the wagon.....stop working out ...after a bulk.

Its not something most ordinary people are passionate about.

Telling the general population to eat in calorie surplus etc is not a good idea.

And a lot of people in gyms are just the general population. They are not bodybuilders etc or people in the habit of doing it for years. those people don't actually have weight issues.

A bulk is a measured calories surplus ..often very very small.....not a general one ...

I have a friend who has just been eating an extra 200 calories a day each day for 4 months. Its been enough to do it. She has been into bodybuilding for years.

Advice has to be aimed at the person receiving it.

No one has suggested he should bulk.

Not a single person in this thread has suggested the OP should bulk.

ILoveYourVibes

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I think her point was more about the intention as opposed to being in a caloric surplus in and of itself.

Being in a surplus is fine if you're bulking and it'd intentional but there are a lot of people that are overweight, and not particularly healthy, who are not intentionally in a surplus.

But it also doesn't mean someone is unhealthy because they are unintentionally in a caloric surplus

IMO no beginners should bulk.

They can't.

They don't know what they are doing. And its questionable as to whether someone not trained to lift heavy without injury actually can do enough to build muscle at that rate.

Lift for a year first ..then bulk.

Also most bulks ..do put some people into an unhealthy bodyfat range for a while. Its still often not healthy. Partic if they started at an unhealthy range too.

Also ..a lot of people just fall off the wagon.....stop working out ...after a bulk.

Its not something most ordinary people are passionate about.

Telling the general population to eat in calorie surplus etc is not a good idea.

And a lot of people in gyms are just the general population. They are not bodybuilders etc or people in the habit of doing it for years. those people don't actually have weight issues.

A bulk is a measured calories surplus ..often very very small.....not a general one ...

I have a friend who has just been eating an extra 200 calories a day each day for 4 months. Its been enough to do it. She has been into bodybuilding for years.

Advice has to be aimed at the person receiving it.

ILoveYourVibes

Cill94 wrote: »

Why?

Its put him at 24% bodyfat.

He is not using it up. He is not building muscle etc.

Alf Veedersane

Cill94 wrote: »

I understand the intention, but the statement is inaccurate and misleading for someone who is coming on here looking for science-based info.

Calorie surplus is not the issue, being above healthy bodyfat is. There are plenty of people who would be healthier by doing a temporary calorie surplus paired with training.

I don't disagree. Just trying to understand what was said and understand the intention behind it as opposed to supporting it.

Cill94

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I think her point was more about the intention as opposed to being in a caloric surplus in and of itself.

I understand the intention, but the statement is inaccurate and misleading for someone who is coming on here looking for science-based info.

Calorie surplus is not the issue, being above healthy bodyfat is. There are plenty of people who would be healthier by doing a temporary calorie surplus paired with training.

Alf Veedersane

Cill94 wrote: »

Why?

I think her point was more about the intention as opposed to being in a caloric surplus in and of itself.

Being in a surplus is fine if you're bulking and it'd intentional but there are a lot of people that are overweight, and not particularly healthy, who are not intentionally in a surplus.

But it also doesn't mean someone is unhealthy because they are unintentionally in a caloric surplus

Cill94

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

A calorie surplus is NOT healthy.

Why?

Dtp1979

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

A calorie surplus is NOT healthy.

Im not sure why anyone would think it was.

Someone not intending to put on weight ..is not healthy eating if they are in an unintentional surplus.

That would be 'i eat too much of the right kind of foods'.

Which tbh is hard given their bulk. The protein bar types however ....that is another story.

So, a calorie surplus is not healthy? Even if the goal is to build muscle?

The rest of your post I’m not following at all

ILoveYourVibes

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Why doesn’t it make sense!? Op was simply in a calorie surplus and put on a few lbs. You can eat healthy and still put on weight

A calorie surplus is NOT healthy.

Im not sure why anyone would think it was.

Someone not intending to put on weight ..is not healthy eating if they are in an unintentional surplus.

That would be 'i eat too much of the right kind of foods'.

Which tbh is hard given their bulk. The protein bar types however ....that is another story.

Alf Veedersane

MouseMan01 wrote: »

Not sure I understand the question alf.

I aim for 10-12 'clean' reps with the heavier dumbbell. Sometimes more. Sometimes less.

Varies by exercise.

Ok, just had no context. Just didn't quite get what you meant by less reps and what was the point you would decide to stop.

Just because doing too few relative to what you could actually do would be less efficient than it could be.

Just FWIW, your training max should be what you can do with good form rather than what you could do if you needed to grind with a little slippage in technique

MouseMan01

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

When you say you do less reps...how do you gauge the number of reps?

Not sure I understand the question alf.

I aim for 10-12 'clean' reps with the heavier dumbbell. Sometimes more. Sometimes less.

Varies by exercise.

Alf Veedersane

When you say you do less reps...how do you gauge the number of reps?

MouseMan01

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You don't lift heavier and for more reps. If you were do be doing sets of 8, for example, you'd be using 70-75% of your 1-rep max. Fewer reps, higher percentage; more reps, then lower.

People get injured often because they do too many reps with a weight that's too heavy (too close to failure). You need to use a challenging weight but one where your technique is correct. The closer you get to actual failure, the more risk of your technique failing and if you're doing multiple reps of a weight with or technique, the more at risk you are of injury. So avoid that by using an appropriate weight for the number of reps.

No need to do just negatives when you can do an exercise properly.

You don't have to only do compounds...its a good idea to do compounds and some isolation exercises as well. Bodybuilders don't just use compounds and they don't just do isolation exercises and it's their business to build muscle.

Thanks alf.

At home I only have 2 kettlebells (20kg and 16kg) and 1 dumbbell (13.5kg).

I'm less limited in the gym.

At home I try to do less reps with better form. Or in other words really get the 'stretch and flex' muscle technique going.

I do press ups and stomach crunches as well as free weights. But i find it difficult to build my core and legs at home.

No idea what my RM is because I'd need a gym to find that out.

Alf Veedersane

MouseMan01 wrote: »

I've heard the old adage. Lift heavier weights with higher reps to put on muscle. Also heard that it's the fastest way to get injured.

And that you should work on form and do negatives instead.

Others say you'll only put on muscle by doing compound exercises.

Is there a good youtube video on lifting perhaps? Also one on road running would be useful.

You don't lift heavier and for more reps. If you were do be doing sets of 8, for example, you'd be using 70-75% of your 1-rep max. Fewer reps, higher percentage; more reps, then lower.

People get injured often because they do too many reps with a weight that's too heavy (too close to failure). You need to use a challenging weight but one where your technique is correct. The closer you get to actual failure, the more risk of your technique failing and if you're doing multiple reps of a weight with or technique, the more at risk you are of injury. So avoid that by using an appropriate weight for the number of reps.

No need to do just negatives when you can do an exercise properly.

You don't have to only do compounds...its a good idea to do compounds and some isolation exercises as well. Bodybuilders don't just use compounds and they don't just do isolation exercises and it's their business to build muscle.

Patsy167

Two posts from Reddit that you might find useful:

I often refer back to this post from Reddit for a reminder/reset - https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/4pl3yc/things_i_wish_i_knew_8_years_ago/

This post has a good breakdown on Volume, intensity and frequency:
https://www.reddit.com/r/naturalbodybuilding/comments/fivvhv/the_quarantine_workout_template/

MouseMan01

Augeo wrote: »

When gyms reopen lift heavier weights..... Keep calories the same but increase protein.
I'd structure the running to 3 times a week .... Do longer sessions.

You won't get a bout at 42 surely?

I've heard the old adage. Lift heavier weights with higher reps to put on muscle. Also heard that it's the fastest way to get injured.

And that you should work on form and do negatives instead.

Others say you'll only put on muscle by doing compound exercises.

Is there a good youtube video on lifting perhaps? Also one on road running would be useful.

MouseMan01

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Its fairly hard to overeat on vegetables all the same. Saying you have a healthy diet is one thing but if you're 24% then there's enough room to improve and reduce that. That isn't at odds with getting stronger but if your primary focus is fitness then shaving off body fat will help.

Thanks Alf.

Alf Veedersane

MouseMan01 wrote: »

Yeah. I do boxercise mostly. No bouts.

You can put on weight eating vegetables too. Plus I drink alot of non-alcoholics and have a healthy appetite.

Is be happy with getting the BF down for more definition.

I only burn ~480 cals in 26 mins running. I should easily be able to make that up in terms of mass gain. Fitness is def. a major goal.

Been at the same weight for the last year. Put on 10 kg when covid hit. Lost it again.

Just started taking protein supplements. Have to see how that works out.

Its fairly hard to overeat on vegetables all the same. Saying you have a healthy diet is one thing but if you're 24% then there's enough room to improve and reduce that. That isn't at odds with getting stronger but if your primary focus is fitness then shaving off body fat will help.

MouseMan01

Black Sheep wrote: »

Seems to me the OP is looking for something that many people are - he wants body recomposition. More lean muscle mass, less fat, and ideally at the same time.

Doing both at once is possible but is mostly like to work out under supervision, particularly around diet.

If the OP's bodyfat is 24% then before deciding what to do next might be worth knowing whether that's an upward trajectory, and since when. If it's been creeping up then at this point you are going to want to probably look at addressing that now. If it's been like that your whole adult life then maybe you can approach it from the other side with a focus on training and sports and see what happens for a while.

Sooner or later, though, if you're serious about getting that % down then there will be no alternative to addressing diet. If it's as healthy as you say, and your activity levels are as high as you say, then at least you know this will be a a simple matter of calorie deficit based on portion control. Simple, not easy :pac:

In terms of training and motivational material around that (Podcasts, articles, community) then I don't know why, but when I read the OP's posts I immediately thought of Joe DeFranco.

He has a lot of programming that is suitable for someone who kind of wants to do it all, and has a mixture of focus on physique, functional strength and conditioning. I have known a bunch of guys in your boat who get really into his programming, particularly the ones where each workout is completely laid out for you.

The only thing I'd say is that with DeFranco's programming, and most programming of this sort, you're not going to get it done in anything like 35 minutes per session. Maybe the conditioning days, but ... Assuming getting yourself squared away and minimally warmed-up takes you 10 minutes... Doubtful.

Yeah. I do boxercise mostly. No bouts.

You can put on weight eating vegetables too. Plus I drink alot of non-alcoholics and have a healthy appetite.

Is be happy with getting the BF down for more definition.

I only burn ~480 cals in 26 mins running. I should easily be able to make that up in terms of mass gain. Fitness is def. a major goal.

Been at the same weight for the last year. Put on 10 kg when covid hit. Lost it again.

Just started taking protein supplements. Have to see how that works out.

Black Sheep

Seems to me the OP is looking for something that many people are - he wants body recomposition. More lean muscle mass, less fat, and ideally at the same time.

Doing both at once is possible but is mostly like to work out under supervision, particularly around diet.

If the OP's bodyfat is 24% then before deciding what to do next might be worth knowing whether that's an upward trajectory, and since when. If it's been creeping up then at this point you are going to want to probably look at addressing that now. If it's been like that your whole adult life then maybe you can approach it from the other side with a focus on training and sports and see what happens for a while.

Sooner or later, though, if you're serious about getting that % down then there will be no alternative to addressing diet. If it's as healthy as you say, and your activity levels are as high as you say, then at least you know this will be a a simple matter of calorie deficit based on portion control. Simple, not easy :pac:

In terms of training and motivational material around that (Podcasts, articles, community) then I don't know why, but when I read the OP's posts I immediately thought of Joe DeFranco.

He has a lot of programming that is suitable for someone who kind of wants to do it all, and has a mixture of focus on physique, functional strength and conditioning. I have known a bunch of guys in your boat who get really into his programming, particularly the ones where each workout is completely laid out for you.

The only thing I'd say is that with DeFranco's programming, and most programming of this sort, you're not going to get it done in anything like 35 minutes per session. Maybe the conditioning days, but ... Assuming getting yourself squared away and minimally warmed-up takes you 10 minutes... Doubtful.