Tenet (Christopher Nolan) spoilers from post 475

ronano · 29-11-2020 9:18pm

I know the dialogue and sound choices are intentionally but honestly it's irritating as hell.

bewareofthedog · 30-11-2020 5:10am

Not a patch on Inception, the concept just didn't flow and make any sort of sense to me at all.

If the "average person" will get the concepts then why are many movie critics calling it a jangled unstructured mess?

The phrase "What's happened, happened" grated me too.

Pretty sure it's a movie I'll never watch again, was bored half way through.

fritzelly · 30-11-2020 5:48am

Watched last night and along with trying to follow the intricate story having to concentrate on what people are even saying in the first place place makes it a slog of a film - the first 10/15 minutes I had no idea what people were saying it was so muffled (like the third Batman film) and that trend continued thru a lot of the film

I don't think I'm up for a second viewing unless I turn subtitles on

NIMAN · 30-11-2020 5:56am

ronano wrote: »

I know the dialogue and sound choices are intentionally but honestly it's irritating as hell.

Haven't watched it yet, but read this so much that I'm wary of it.

Why would such a huge blockbuster be recorded with such poor sound?

fritzelly · 30-11-2020 6:00am

NIMAN wrote: »

Haven't watched it yet, but read this so much that I'm wary of it.

Why would such a huge blockbuster be recorded with such poor sound?

The start of the film they are all wearing respirators - near impossible to understand what is being said, there's another scene on boats where pretty much all you can hear is the boats thrashing thru the waves and then in general the whole film just has sound drowned out by the score or sound effects

It's annoying as hell

30-11-2020 8:36am

fritzelly wrote: »

The start of the film they are all wearing respirators - near impossible to understand what is being said, there's another scene on boats where pretty much all you can hear is the boats thrashing thru the waves and then in general the whole film just has sound drowned out by the score or sound effects

It's annoying as hell

I thought it might be my hearing, I have a top sound system but still couldn’t make out what was being said in quite a few scenes, but especially the two you mention.

rtron · 30-11-2020 8:56am

I'm going to try and watch it again but using this walk through:
www.vulture.com/amp/2020/09/tenet-explained-whats-going-on-in-the-plot-of-this-movie.html

30-11-2020 3:10pm

I saw it in the cinema but did enjoy the first hour or so at the time so decided to at least re-watch that

only got to the lunch with Michael Caine though - the whole elongated exposition is nauseating the second time around.

possibly an even worse film than I first thought

30-11-2020 8:41pm

Frustrating movie.
If they got rid of inversion and just had Washington playing an agent, Pattison as his morally ambiguous sidekick, Branagh chewing scenery playing the same baddie and the poisonous relationship with Debicki I know Nolan could have realised a compelling story hitting every beat. I wouldn't care if others would accuse it of being derivative or unadenturous. As the closing titles rolled I'd be satisfied.
This was too clever by half for its own good.

expectationlost · 30-11-2020 9:13pm

bought the bluray but watched it last night, think its good its just a bit of head scratcher at the very end about their past adventures

bewareofthedog · 01-12-2020 8:41am

The biggest problem I found is that there didn't seem to be any rules, they sort of just muddled a bunch of variables together trying to explain inversion, all it did for me was completely throw me off the time travel element and I was left scratching my head at the ambiguity of it all. When the protagonist first got inverted the female soldier joked things like food tasted the opposite and the grip of the car would be different etc. If the taste of an inanimate object like food is inverted then why for e.g. is the weight resistance of roads totally unaffected. Why is it only certain things?

Inception was a complex movie but there were rules and everything made sense more or less to me on first viewing, tenet is like two average sci-fi movies intertwined and it never properly nails the inversion element, not even close. There's a bunch of other problems with it outside of plot, the sound mixing like others have said is substandard, and I feel like the casting was poor besides Robert Pattinson. Despite my previous post I will end up watching it again to try and make sense of things, but I have the feeling I'll get bored scratching my head half way through again.

flasher0030 · 01-12-2020 10:57am

bewareofthedog wrote: »

The biggest problem I found is that there didn't seem to be any rules, they sort of just muddled a bunch of variables together trying to explain inversion, all it did for me was completely throw me off the time travel element and I was left scratching my head at the ambiguity of it all. When the protagonist first got inverted the female soldier joked things like food tasted the opposite and the grip of the car would be different etc. If the taste of an inanimate object like food is inverted then why for e.g. is the weight resistance of roads totally unaffected. Why is it only certain things?

Inception was a complex movie but there were rules and everything made sense more or less to me on first viewing, tenet is like two average sci-fi movies intertwined and it never properly nails the inversion element, not even close. There's a bunch of other problems with it outside of plot, the sound mixing like others have said is substandard, and I feel like the casting was poor besides Robert Pattinson. Despite my previous post I will end up watching it again to try and make sense of things, but I have the feeling I'll get bored scratching my head half way through again.

Why do you feel you need to make sense of everything. It's a work of fiction; a science fiction tale featuring going time travel elements, inversion etc. It doesn't need to be compared to the real world that we live in today - to determine what elements of the film could be credible and what elements may not be. If the producer/writer/director etc decide to put any plotline into a movie, that's their perogitive. Like I say, it's a sci-fi movie; anything goes. You can make a judgement on whether or not you liked the film and thought it was good or not. But it's stretching it a bit to be judgeing what is credible for you in a sci-fi film.

serfboard · 01-12-2020 1:38pm

bewareofthedog wrote: »

The biggest problem I found is that there didn't seem to be any rules, they sort of just muddled a bunch of variables together trying to explain inversion, all it did for me was completely throw me off the time travel element and I was left scratching my head at the ambiguity of it all. When the protagonist first got inverted the female soldier joked things like food tasted the opposite and the grip of the car would be different etc. If the taste of an inanimate object like food is inverted then why for e.g. is the weight resistance of roads totally unaffected. Why is it only certain things?

Because they wouldn't have been able to build a plot otherwise.

bewareofthedog wrote: »

Inception was a complex movie but there were rules and everything made sense more or less to me on first viewing, tenet is like two average sci-fi movies intertwined and it never properly nails the inversion element, not even close.

I agree with you. The rules of the alternate world were inconsistent because, having come up with this great plot device, they couldn't make it stick for plot points, so they just broke the rules they had created when it suited - which begs the question, why create the world at all?

I think Nolan should have spent some time on this site: https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com. The site describes itself as:

a question and answer site for writers/artists using science, geography and culture to construct imaginary worlds and settings.

There are some very interesting discussions on there, where writers propose worlds and scienfiticky types point out any inconsistencies.

01-12-2020 2:59pm

flasher0030 wrote: »

Why do you feel you need to make sense of everything. It's a work of fiction; a science fiction tale featuring going time travel elements, inversion etc. It doesn't need to be compared to the real world that we live in today - to determine what elements of the film could be credible and what elements may not be. If the producer/writer/director etc decide to put any plotline into a movie, that's their perogitive. Like I say, it's a sci-fi movie; anything goes. You can make a judgement on whether or not you liked the film and thought it was good or not. But it's stretching it a bit to be judgeing what is credible for you in a sci-fi film.

It helps if the plot is coherent though.

bewareofthedog · 01-12-2020 4:52pm

flasher0030 wrote: »

Why do you feel you need to make sense of everything. It's a work of fiction; a science fiction tale featuring going time travel elements, inversion etc. It doesn't need to be compared to the real world that we live in today - to determine what elements of the film could be credible and what elements may not be. If the producer/writer/director etc decide to put any plotline into a movie, that's their perogitive. Like I say, it's a sci-fi movie; anything goes. You can make a judgement on whether or not you liked the film and thought it was good or not. But it's stretching it a bit to be judgeing what is credible for you in a sci-fi film.

It doesn't need to be credible, it needs to be somewhat consistent and make sense to a certain degree in the world they created. I'm not talking about nitpicks either just a somewhat coherant plot that keeps the movie gelled together.

Point completely went over you head, you make it sound like I dislike the movie because it's scifi and far fetched which is silly.

Giruilla · 02-12-2020 11:25pm

Painfully dull on rewatch. You realise quickly the entire film is essentially exposition, and JD Washington is not a strong lead.

Homelander · 03-12-2020 12:13am

To its credit I do think it's a film that lends itself to the intrigue and puzzlement of the unfolding plot if you're following it.

It's not perfect, but I thought it was a very solid and original film, having watched the German show "Dark" very recently I think I was very much primed for it subconsciously as it deals with very similar themes about time.

I think if anything it was too ambitious for a major blockbuster release with a limited runtime, would've been more suited to a TV show.

sky88 · 07-12-2020 1:59am

Huge Nolan fan but this was by far his dullest film

Did people feel Neil was Elizabeth debeckis kid grown up

Snake Plisken · 07-12-2020 2:02am

sky88 wrote: »

Huge Nolan fan but this was by far his dullest film

Really? I thought Tenet was a return to form after Dunkirk which I found full.

sky88 · 07-12-2020 2:04am

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Really? I thought Tenet was a return to form after Dunkirk which I found full.

I found myself watching it really wanting to like it but it was a losing battle for me just didn’t do anything for me

Snake Plisken · 07-12-2020 2:10am

sky88 wrote: »

I found myself watching it really wanting to like it but it was a losing battle for me just didn’t do anything for me

Did you see it in the Cinema or just on TV? I took the chance and saw it on the big screen and really enjoyed it and look forward to watching it again. I do think Nolan's movies work better on the big screen.

sky88 · 07-12-2020 2:18am

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Did you see it in the Cinema or just on TV? I took the chance and saw it on the big screen and really enjoyed it and look forward to watching it again. I do think Nolan's movies work better on the big screen.

Tv and I have to say a lot of the sound issues people talked about I didn’t really see except small parts

To me the story was trying to be overly smart but came off confusing instead and the set pieces for the movie just didn’t click

homerun_homer · 07-12-2020 11:26am

sky88 wrote: »

Huge Nolan fan but this was by far his dullest film

Did people feel Neil was Elizabeth debeckis kid grown up

This theory has been doing the rounds a long time and is a bit of a stupid one when you think of it. It would mean the kid would be living most of his life going backwards to get to this point in time where he'd be this age moving forward.

Outkast_IRE · 07-12-2020 1:13pm

Watched this over the weekend on a big screen with a good sound system.

Was disappointed. The production values are excellent but i thought the reverse time premise actually dispelled any tension in the scenes.

The concept is good and really interesting i just dont know how well it worked as a big action film. No tension, very little reason to care for the characters etc.

Keyzer · 07-12-2020 1:25pm

Watched it last week and I'm still scratching my head.

I'm a Nolan fan, love Inception and his other work but this just seemed to me to be a convoluted mess from start to finish. Like that person in work who has notions about themselves, the person who uses elaborate words no one usually uses, just to look smart. But when you scratch the surface, they aren't smart at all and they really don't know what they are talking about. That summed this movie up for me.

The whole inversion concept was, in my opinion, ridiculous. It made very little sense as a "time travel" concept.

Cinematography was great (as usual with Nolan), sound dreadful, set pieces very good.

Just a bad movie in my opinion, one I wont revisit.

On a side note, I didn't think JDW was a strong lead.

pixelburp · 07-12-2020 1:27pm

To the point of the audio; we watched it via a soundbar so while hardly top-tier acoustics, it has been more than capable of giving movies a proper shakedown with their audio mix. Most films watched have had good, cinematic soundscapes. Hearing or comprehension of dialogue never an issue; this isn't even the first time the issue has presented in a Nolan film. So honestly, IMO there's something going on with the post-production decisions. And at this point, I would speculate that Nolan is being indulged way too much that "lesser" directors would be pulled up on something as basic as the audio mix.

To the actual film itself? Arguably Nolan's first proper misstep. And same point as from the prior line: I think there was a touch of indulgence in what was on-screen; as if Nolan had finally graduated to the point where typical production oversight no longer applied. This was baggy and muddled in its execution, with only the now typical, exhilarating set-pieces acting as relief between the tedious exposition. Said exposition has been another issue with Nolan's more "gimmick" driven films, the dialogue often begging another pass from someone more capable of expressing the concepts presented; and while Inception's "dream within a dream" structure was relatively simple to express, here the convoluted premise became too much for the leaden dialogue to carry. The concept didn't even feel particularly complicated either, but the execution constantly left me upended, confused if I had grasped the principle.

I think Nolan is beginning to lose himself in the technicality of his various conceits at this stage: he obviously has a resting interest in "time" as a core narrative pillar; it's present in almost every movie, either structurally in the script, or the story itself. Yet to compare Tenet with an earlier work like The Prestige, the older film comes across the more mature, better-formed feature. The conceit of a magic trick writ large across a movie's narrative, but never derailing the experience or story.

mikhail · 07-12-2020 1:37pm

I don't disagree. The Prestige had the benefit of a source novel, and Jonathan Nolan's input to the scripts they wrote together seems to be more conspicuous by its absence every film. I don't think he could make a movie like The Prestige now though. The studio demands a big tentpole actioner, and a story like that just won't cut it. I think he just needs a new writing partner.

Snake Plisken · 07-12-2020 3:03pm

mikhail wrote: »

I don't disagree. The Prestige had the benefit of a source novel, and Jonathan Nolan's input to the scripts they wrote together seems to be more conspicuous by its absence every film. I don't think he could make a movie like The Prestige now though. The studio demands a big tentpole actioner, and a story like that just won't cut it. I think he just needs a new writing partner.

Well I think they indulged Nolan on The Prestige and Inception as he was pulling in the box office with The Batman trilogy, I do think Warner see him as this generations Kubrick and will allow him to make whatever he so pleases (within reason). Still think Tenet would have made money in normal circumstances

B.A._Baracus · 07-12-2020 5:21pm

I was talking about this with a person I work with and he made an interesting comment regarding the sound. Like we all know Nolan likes to make movies for the cinema. The art and awe of a big screen.

But is Nolan just mixing for some big cinema surround sound system and everything else is meh? Like "what ever will do" when it comes to blu ray or streaming?

I dunno. Just throwing that out there.

Fysh · 07-12-2020 5:38pm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I was talking about this with a person I work with and he made an interesting comment regarding the sound. Like we all know Nolan likes to make movies for the cinema. The art and awe of a big screen.

But is Nolan just mixing for some big cinema surround sound system and everything else is meh? Like "what ever will do" when it comes to blu ray or streaming?

I dunno. Just throwing that out there.

I have noticed that there seems to be an increasing tendency for films to be dropped onto streaming platforms with the same sound mix as the theatrical release (I have a feeling this is also true for physical releases but couldn't swear to it). I'm fine with significant volume variation when I'm at the cinema, but I can't be dealing with "volume up to 50 for the quieter talky bits, then panic and volume down to 7 because suddenly there's machine gun fire all over the shop" constantly. I'm pretty sure my neighbours don't want that either.

If I had to guess I would expect it's tightening budget restrictions on what work you can justify for the post-theatrical release, but who knows...

homerun_homer · 07-12-2020 6:22pm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I was talking about this with a person I work with and he made an interesting comment regarding the sound. Like we all know Nolan likes to make movies for the cinema. The art and awe of a big screen.

But is Nolan just mixing for some big cinema surround sound system and everything else is meh? Like "what ever will do" when it comes to blu ray or streaming?

I dunno. Just throwing that out there.

Yet everyone complained about the theatre mix, so even that isn't good enough to convert to home release. He prefers the idea that people are drowned out by bigger noises as it's more real, but that's just not good for us.

We all can joke about times where a scene feels inauthentic for sound in tv or film, like two people chatting in a club at normal level when they should be shouting in each other's ears. There is that way, or you can do a more authentic way like in Social Network for the club scene where the music is loud but you can hear the characters trying to chat through it. There can be a happy medium, but Nolan doesn't appear to be interested in bending to what people want in that regards.

07-12-2020 10:54pm

it's not as if the sound is the only problem with this "work"

Bowlardo · 08-12-2020 12:22am

Relikk wrote: »

The sequences that are focused purely on the inverted action just didn't work for me. It's odd looking and there is no excitement in them at all.

Don't worry Nolan will get good old hand today out a soundtrack at volume 11 to induce anxiety in antibodies so we will be fooled I to this king this movie was suspenseful.
It wasn't it was sure

It does look amazingly it all so hallow

Nolan has had a few turkeys in recent times

mikhail · 08-12-2020 1:40am

Bowlardo wrote: »

Don't worry Nolan will get good old hand today out a soundtrack at volume 11 to induce anxiety in antibodies so we will be fooled I to this king this movie was suspenseful.
It wasn't it was sure

It does look amazingly it all so hallow

Nolan has had a few turkeys in recent times

If someone is nearby, you should ask them to call an ambulance. I think you're having a stroke.

flasher0030 · 08-12-2020 8:46am

Bowlardo wrote: »

Don't worry Nolan will get good old hand today out a soundtrack at volume 11 to induce anxiety in antibodies so we will be fooled I to this king this movie was suspenseful.
It wasn't it was sure

It does look amazingly it all so hallow

Nolan has had a few turkeys in recent times

Hope you made it though the night, man.
You must have some serious amount of beers on board to come up with that post.

08-12-2020 4:25pm

Bowlardo wrote: »

Don't worry Nolan will get good old hand today out a soundtrack at volume 11 to induce anxiety in antibodies so we will be fooled I to this king this movie was suspenseful.
It wasn't it was sure

It does look amazingly it all so hallow

Nolan has had a few turkeys in recent times

What is the code key?

Big Gerry · 08-12-2020 8:17pm

Nolan seems to have fallen out with Warner brothers.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9028903/Christopher-Nolan-BASHES-Warner-Bros-shifting-2021-movies-theaters-HBO-Max.html

Outkast_IRE · 09-12-2020 10:14am

Big Gerry wrote: »

Nolan seems to have fallen out with Warner brothers.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9028903/Christopher-Nolan-BASHES-Warner-Bros-shifting-2021-movies-theaters-HBO-Max.html

Everybody on the creative end just fell out with WBs , its only executives thought this a good idea.

I can see multiple legal challenges to this , too many actors, producers , directors whose deals are based on the gross with less up front salary.

And its essentially self dealing from WBs unless HBO gives open market value for the films.

Keyzer · 09-12-2020 10:33am

Bowlardo wrote: »

Don't worry Nolan will get good old hand today out a soundtrack at volume 11 to induce anxiety in antibodies so we will be fooled I to this king this movie was suspenseful.
It wasn't it was sure

It does look amazingly it all so hallow

Nolan has had a few turkeys in recent times

Were you inverted when you posted this?

AMKC · 11-12-2020 8:42pm

So just this this evening and it was the strangest movie I have ever watched. Truth is zi have no idea what half of it was about as the dialogue was hard to here in parts. It is definitely a film I will watch again maybe when it is out on the TV so I can but subtitles on it and pause it when I need a break. There was some cool parts in it.
The action was so strange but cool. The plane scene was brilliant.

I thought the story was a bit of a mess and a over the face but a second watch might make it make sense.

Effects · 13-12-2020 11:29am

Tried to preorder to watch it via Amazon, but it won’t let you if you’re in Ireland.

Snake Plisken · 13-12-2020 11:43am

Effects wrote: »

Tried to preorder to watch it via Amazon, but it won’t let you if you’re in Ireland.

Have you apple tv app on your fire stick or TV you can pre-order it from apple

Effects · 13-12-2020 12:27pm

Nah, pretty sure tv only has Netflix and Prime built in.
I had an Apple TV but gave it to a friend as didn’t really need it anymore.

I’ll find it another way, it’s just annoying.

Snake Plisken · 21-12-2020 12:30am

Sums Tenet up perfectly

:D:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t23ZEKqGHzs

banie01 · 23-12-2020 12:39pm

Watched this 2 nights ago.
Some really fantastic sequences in the movie, but like a lot of Nolan's work.
Once you realise the conceit(or at least what you perceive that conceit to be).
The movie descends into spotting links, call backs and foreshadowing that support the theory you've spun
Rather than it is trying to relax and take in the spectacle.

The soundscape is brilliant IMO, I know people complained regarding muffled dialogue in places, but I think that's deliberate and integral to how Nolan wants the story to play out.
It forces the viewer to choose a plotline, what does the viewer think was said?
How does that shape what the viewer thinks is actually happening?

I really enjoyed it, but I think I enjoyed it more after I made an assumption or 2 and started worldbuilding in my own head?
Than I did because the story grabbed me and carried me along, if that makes any sense?

Part of what made this movie work for me, was that much like a good book, it allowed me to fill in huge swathes of the story with my imagination.

Now having said that, and hand on heart enjoying the movie or at least enjoying the diversion it afforded my 2020 addled brain

My wife watching it beside me could make head nor tail of what was happening and our poor dog was rudely reintroduced to the Yamaha Sub in a manner that was both hilarious and kinda worrying

Sand · 23-12-2020 11:27pm

I watched this earlier this week, but found it very hard going. I couldn't finish it in one sitting.

- The lead actor was turgid. Robert Pattinson was more compelling as a supporting character, and indeed even that sergeant/soldier guy (actor from Kickass) who showed up halfway though was more interesting as he at least had a bit of a personality. The only time the lead guy showed any any emotional range was right at the very end when confronted with the knowledge the character he was speaking to had died/would die to 'save the world' and he wondered if they could succeed better. Apart from that, he delivered his lines like he was announcing the football results. Maybe that is the actor, maybe its the direction (the character is seemingly deliberately nameless) but either way I couldn't have cared less about the character or anything that happened to him.
- The action sequences were fairly banal. Despite the inversion gimmick, it was still by the numbers beat-em-up/shoot-em-up. I was disappointed all there was to is was this. It's not even that clever. The 'big reveal' in the Freeport fight sequence was so obvious you could call it as soon as the lead character came up against a mysterious and masked combatant.
- It felt like 3 or 4 separate short films stuck together. The movie jumped from A to B to C, and it all felt disjointed. You really could have had any of the major sequences of the film shown alone, without any reference to anything that happened before or after and it would have made just as much sense.
- The antagonists were noticeable by their absence. It is hard to get excited about a faction with no presence and little or no discernible motivation. The film forces you to settle for a stereotypical evil Russian oligarch/arms dealer as a placeholder.

I actually regret spending money on it and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

27-12-2020 4:18am

"Just because you can, doesn't mean that you should."

That's all I could think of as the end credits began on my watch of Tenet earlier tonight.

Nolan can clearly put whatever ideas he wants on screen now at this stage of his career. It doesn't mean that he should though, not if Tenet is anything to go by. What a boring mess this movie is. A co-writer and an appropriate editor would have helped here.

I'm honestly surprised at how much I disliked this. Nolan has been more or less on point for me with all of his movies up until now. Sure, Inception leaves me a bit cold, TDKR leaves me wanting for a better conclusion to a good trilogy...but overall I like those movies.

I will never watch Tenet again in my life.

AllForIt · 28-12-2020 2:03am

Half way through and I put it on pause.

Absolutely no idea what this is about tbh. I thought I was going to be one of those ppl that 'got it' and say it was great but it turns out I could not be more disinterested.

All I see is echos of Batman and Inception but no actual movie. Haven't a clue. I can't even say it's bad because I don't know if it is good or bad, all I know is that I'm completely disinterested. I doubt watching the second half will change what I think of it.

AllForIt · 29-12-2020 3:13am

Watched second third of the movie.

All I see is the The Matrix Reloaded which had a way way better speeding car scene.

Not sure if I'll watch the final third. Or is it turd.

Fysh · 29-12-2020 3:25pm

AllForIt wrote: »

Watched second third of the movie.

All I see is the The Matrix Reloaded which had a way way better speeding car scene.

Not sure if I'll watch the final third. Or is it turd.

There is a climactic action scene in the final third that is definitely worth watching, even if only to appreciate the (IMO under-realised) potential for the film's central conceit.

Tenet (Christopher Nolan) *spoilers from post 475*

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Tenet (Christopher Nolan) spoilers from post 475