Administrative Officer 2020 in the Civil Service

lucat · 05-10-2020 12:15pm

AngryLips wrote: »

I'm assuming it's because the application is literally you ticking a check-box and hitting submit ...how much time do people need for something like that? It's not like you're prepping a CV or lengthier application form

Is it? I haven't downloaded it yet. I seem to remember it was a full application form last year.

AngryLips · 05-10-2020 12:54pm

lucat wrote: »

Is it? I haven't downloaded it yet. I seem to remember it was a full application form last year.

You literally tick which streams you want to apply for then hit submit.

job seeker · 05-10-2020 2:03pm

Can anyone tell me what OOM I'd need to get to be in with a reasonable chance of securing a job?

lucat · 05-10-2020 2:38pm

job seeker wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what OOM I'd need to get to be in with a reasonable chance of securing a job?

If last year's thread is anything to go by, early 300's and selecting 'Dublin'.

Eylon · 05-10-2020 2:53pm

I have some questions if someone can help, I'm a little confused. I saw that the EO competition was much more publicised and the Third Secretary recruitment also, but it seems that this AO recruitment is a bit more quiet. Am I wrong? And why is it directed to certain departments and not nationwide like the EO competition? Isn't it the same qualifications? I must be getting something wrong here.

The_Conductor · 05-10-2020 2:56pm

job seeker wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what OOM I'd need to get to be in with a reasonable chance of securing a job?

Sorry- but that really is a bit of a how long is a piece of string question.
It depends on how Departments draw down from the panel, and annecdotally, there are plans to put a new recruitment embargo in place- where each new post would have to be individually sanctioned by DPER.

There are concerns that several of the State Agencies have lost the run of themselves and have recruited numbers of staff over and above their authorised complements, and these staff go against the staff ceilings for their home Departments.

Its not really easy to tell- do your best- and if it happens, it happens.

Ps- the above tip about choosing Dublin is very true- over 80% of all AOs are based in Dublin, with only extremely limited numbers in decentralised locations.

job seeker · 05-10-2020 3:05pm

lucat wrote: »

If last year's thread is anything to go by, early 300's and selecting 'Dublin'.

Cheers!

The_Conductor wrote: »

Sorry- but that really is a bit of a how long is a piece of string question.
It depends on how Departments draw down from the panel, and annecdotally, there are plans to put a new recruitment embargo in place- where each new post would have to be individually sanctioned by DPER.

There are concerns that several of the State Agencies have lost the run of themselves and have recruited numbers of staff over and above their authorised complements, and these staff go against the staff ceilings for their home Departments.

Its not really easy to tell- do your best- and if it happens, it happens.

Ps- the above tip about choosing Dublin is very true- over 80% of all AOs are based in Dublin, with only extremely limited numbers in decentralised locations.

Cheers! Yeah, I was kinda thinking that! I was just looking for a rough idea! I get what you're saying though!

HydroTendonMan · 05-10-2020 3:19pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

You go to the point closest to your current salary point, without suffering a reduction in pay.

Don't you get the nearest point up from your current salary plus one increment?

I may be reading the DPER circular wrong, but according to the Circular from 08/019 regarding pay on promotion, it states that existing civil servants who get promoted and have a salary above point one of the new scale get "the nearest point above the officer's salary point plus one increment".

On page 5 they have an example of a CO whose salary is between points 3 and 4 on the AO scale, so they start on point 5.

Am I missing something?

MrsBean · 05-10-2020 5:38pm

HydroTendonMan wrote: »

Am I missing something?

Nope, you're reading it correctly. To the nearest point plus one.

MrsBean · 05-10-2020 5:44pm

Eylon wrote: »

I have some questions if someone can help, I'm a little confused. I saw that the EO competition was much more publicised and the Third Secretary recruitment also, but it seems that this AO recruitment is a bit more quiet. Am I wrong? And why is it directed to certain departments and not nationwide like the EO competition? Isn't it the same qualifications? I must be getting something wrong here.

Qualifications are not the same. AO you need a Level 8 degree. EO you just need a Leaving Cert. In terms of the hierarchy, AO is higher than EO, and there would be less AOs than EOs.

The AO competition comes up every year in October and is generally targeted at graduates as a result of the eligibility requirements. EO competitions are less frequent but would take on larger numbers than from an AO comp (ie. thousands of EOs vs a couple of hundred AOs) which is probably why the EO competition appeared to be much wider publicised.

Ernesto Guevara · 07-10-2020 4:06pm

New message stating that it's Dublin only this campaign.
Got my hopes up for a second it might have been EO results.

Furious-Red · 07-10-2020 4:16pm

Ernesto Guevara wrote: »

New message stating that it's Dublin only this campaign.
Got my hopes up for a second it might have been EO results.

Same, This was my second message from Public Jobs today (first was a reminder to finish off another application).

Luckily Dublin would be fine with me if I got through but they should have made it clearer for everyone

in rainbows · 07-10-2020 4:28pm

Ernesto Guevara wrote: »

New message stating that it's Dublin only this campaign.
Got my hopes up for a second it might have been EO results.

Same!

Thrillhouse11 · 07-10-2020 4:53pm

If you have a few civil service applications on the go at once (as I'm guessing a lot of people here do), and you're offered one of them, am I right to assume you can still pursue the others without any issues? Or will it reflect badly on you in, say, an interview, if you tell them you recently accepted a different civil service position but you're still willing to accept this new one at the drop of a hat?

The_Conductor · 07-10-2020 4:58pm

Thrillhouse11 wrote: »

If you have a few civil service applications on the go at once (as I'm guessing a lot of people here do), and you're offered one of them, am I right to assume you can still pursue the others without any issues? Or will it reflect badly on you in, say, an interview, if you tell them you recently accepted a different civil service position but you're still willing to accept this new one at the drop of a hat?

Doesn't cause any issues whatsoever.
Lots of people took CO positions last year and found out weeks later that they got AO- some stuck with the same Departments (happily).

Aleece2020 · 08-10-2020 1:44am

lucat wrote: »

If last year's thread is anything to go by, early 300's and selecting 'Dublin'.

Was told "around 400" by a current AO who I spoke to at gradIreland. They also told me a few things about the exams when I questioned what the best approach to answering them (especially the personality test.) There are ways to get through the exams and they're likely not going to be any harder than the EO exam which was a total nightmare.

meepp · 09-10-2020 7:57am

Could someone supply some detail about steps six through eight?

How do they compare to post application stages in the EO campaign?

Please and thank you :-)

job seeker · 09-10-2020 9:29pm

If you had a level 8 degree and no managerial experience at all. Would be a difficult job? Or s there training provided? Just curious.

Aleece2020 · 09-10-2020 11:25pm

job seeker wrote: »

If you had a level 8 degree and no managerial experience at all. Would be a difficult job? Or s there training provided? Just curious.

Level 9 here. It's not too late to do a little bit of remote/online volunteering or freelancing and equate the skills/work involved to managerial skills. Would definitely be great at interview.

From what I have been told by current AOs, depending on the stream the work varies but both of them mentioned a one-year graduate program to provide you with the necessary baseline training. I think with a level 8 you'd be totally fine.

mulligja · 10-10-2020 11:15am

Anyone happen to know if similar tests for EO will be used for AO? In terms of verbal + numerical reasoning with the situational questionnaire?

Seesee · 10-10-2020 11:48am

Anyone have the info booklet for this? I didn't realise it would be removed from the website when the competition closed.

mulligja · 10-10-2020 12:01pm

Seesee wrote: »

Anyone have the info booklet for this? I didn't realise it would be removed from the website when the competition closed.

This what you mean?

Seesee · 10-10-2020 1:16pm

That's the one - thank you!

Artemisia87 · 10-10-2020 3:21pm

Hi everyone, it's my first time applying for a civil service job (age 33)! Would anyone who's been through the process be able to give an insight into the level of the numerical/verbal tests? I've had a look at tests online but seems to be varying levels and don't want to end up practicing on tests that are too easy!

job seeker · 11-10-2020 12:15pm

Aleece2020 wrote: »

Level 9 here. It's not too late to do a little bit of remote/online volunteering or freelancing and equate the skills/work involved to managerial skills. Would definitely be great at interview.

From what I have been told by current AOs, depending on the stream the work varies but both of them mentioned a one-year graduate program to provide you with the necessary baseline training. I think with a level 8 you'd be totally fine.

Thanks for your reply! Appreciate it! I have 2 years of voluntreey experience with the Order of Malta. Would that really help in an interview? A small part is supervisoral more so than managerial.

Seesee · 11-10-2020 4:10pm

Artemisia87 wrote: »

Hi everyone, it's my first time applying for a civil service job (age 33)! Would anyone who's been through the process be able to give an insight into the level of the numerical/verbal tests? I've had a look at tests online but seems to be varying levels and don't want to end up practicing on tests that are too easy!

The EO numerical test was hard enough although the samples they sent beforehand were indicative of the level. The verbal test wasn’t so bad. The numerical test for EO was not counted in the final score you just had to pass. I’d expect the standard for the AO to be higher though. First timer here too so I’m sure others will answer who have more experience.

Thrillhouse11 · 11-10-2020 5:03pm

I wonder if working from home for these positions will continue beyond the pandemic? If they're able to function just as well at the moment with the majority of the workforce WFH it just seems sensible to make it a permanent change, or at least an option.

rostalof · 12-10-2020 11:19am

Thrillhouse11 wrote: »

I wonder if working from home for these positions will continue beyond the pandemic? If they're able to function just as well at the moment with the majority of the workforce WFH it just seems sensible to make it a permanent change, or at least an option.

Maybe partially. There's a commitment in the program for government to 'Mandate public sector employers, colleges, and other public bodies to move to 20% home and remote working in 2021', so they're committing to partially embrace it.

In the recent EO competition info booklet it states 'As an Employer of Choice and under the Programme for Government the Civil Service is exploring the opportunities for employees to work remotely.' What they don't state is, that if you work from home, you're not trusted and as such, your office based colleagues will have access to flexi leave while you don't. You also won't have the choice to return to office based work to access flexi leave. Yet again, officers of the civil service have quite rightly facilitated and agreed to 'temporary changes' to work practices during national emergency periods, only to find DPER decides down the line that it has set some kind of precedent and the changes become long term. When asked about a possible remote working agreement being formulated, FORSA waffle on about the need for IT and office equipment to be supplied by the departments to their staff. This is complete pie in the sky, they're never going to do that.

MrsBean · 12-10-2020 11:46am

rostalof wrote: »

When asked about a possible remote working agreement being formulated, FORSA waffle on about the need for IT and office equipment to be supplied by the departments to their staff. This is complete pie in the sky, they're never going to do that.

I'm an AO and my department provided me with a laptop, a headset and an office chair. I will work entirely remotely until at least January 2021.

rostalof · 12-10-2020 11:54am

MrsBean wrote: »

I'm an AO and my department provided me with a laptop, a headset and an office chair. I will work entirely remotely until at least January 2021.

100% correct. Sorry I should have clarified that point. In the two offices/departments I have worked in, DEASP and Revenue, remote working has been partially (one day a week for example) available for a lot of AOs and HEOs for a few years and they are supplied with laptops etc. I will also continue to work entirely from home indefinitely, unlike your department though, our department doesn't seem to feel the necessity to give their staff any inkling of how long this arrangement will continue for. I appreciate that these are trying times and the situation we find ourselves in is totally unprecedented, but we're six months in at this stage and lacking any sort of cohesive plan or policy around remote working.

mulligja · 12-10-2020 12:47pm

MrsBean wrote: »

I'm an AO and my department provided me with a laptop, a headset and an office chair. I will work entirely remotely until at least January 2021.

If you'd be comfortable sharing, I'd be really interested to hear what your day-to-day looks like as an AO!

MrsBean · 12-10-2020 1:16pm

mulligja wrote: »

If you'd be comfortable sharing, I'd be really interested to hear what your day-to-day looks like as an AO!

Sure - I work in the department's financial management area with a specific responsibility on the governance side of things. Since I started a couple of months ago I have been involved in some high level meetings and the preparation of documents such as the Appropriation Account and drafting a brief for the Minister.

On a day to day basis I work closely with several APs and my PO on whatever pressing items we have on hand; audits, PQs, correspondence with DPER. A primary part of my role is liaising with other sections within the department to seek out information/updates etc. so I get good exposure to the whole department, although I will say this is harder to do remotely. It would be great to put a face to a name! I also have to interpret financial information and identify trends or issues that may arise, working with spreadsheets a lot and a financial management system to generate reports. The last few weeks have been very busy as as pre-budget tends to be for many sections. There are peaks and troughs depending on the time of year and what deadlines are approaching.

Financial management is not an area of particular interest to me and I was initially disappointed to hear where I was placed but having experienced it now I actually quite like it. I'm due to finish a certificate in public expenditure this week which I asked to do soon after I started as I wanted to get some additional training in this area. This was approved without question. I have one member of staff reporting to me and I'm due to have another whenever they are assigned to the unit in the coming weeks. The department is a very nice place to work and I feel supported in my role (I am not being told to say this

).

You can PM me if you need any more info!

FenFlynn · 12-10-2020 4:23pm

Anyone know a good site to practice the aptitude tests? Haven't done one since this time last year and no doubt I failed it last time.

Chaos Black · 12-10-2020 6:20pm

Working from home for the most part outside of the occasional time required in the office. Expect it to be like that for next few months at least. Longer term I’d expect my Department prefers people in the office as pre-COVID it was rare for any grade to work from home.

My experience to date is that as an AO your work will depend on the Department, unit and luck. Some AO’s do traditional policy work, others it is more operational management and everything in between is possible. You are most likely to end up in one of Taoiseach’s, Public Expenditure, Finance or Health as an AO. Revenue and Foreign Affairs get their own equivalent via separate recruitment streams generally speaking.

AOHopeful2019 · 12-10-2020 8:23pm

I'm 3 months in the role now and I've been working from home for most of that time. I was in the office for training for the first couple or weeks.

Day to day work varies from drafting reports to attending video conferences with different departments. Already I've been working on very high level projects with my manager.

So far I'm mainly doing policy work which is quite interesting but the first few weeks were very overwhelming!

Feel free to PM if anyone has any questions!

Best of luck to anyone applying this year.

Gus Ivey · 12-10-2020 8:50pm

Anyone any info on the aptitude tests?

Will they be tougher than the Exec officer tests?
Will there be more or less applicants?

13-10-2020 9:49pm

This course really helped me:https://careerservices.ie/administrative-officers/preparation

It's stupidly expensive but it got me through and I've made the money back since getting the job.

I was placed back in January so I got about 10 weeks in the office before being sent home. My role is very diverse; I rarely work on the same thing two weeks in a row. I'm in a very busy Department and in a unit that's role focusses on policy development and collaboration--it makes for a dynamic job where you talk to a lot of people and have a good view of what's going on around the org. My line managers have been wonderful about giving me responsibilities and having me lead on projects; I'm quite shy and sometimes need a push but they have been so steadfast in their faith that I'll rise to the occasion, you can't help but develop in your role. I don't have anyone reporting to me, which is not unusual in my department for an AO.

The AO role is, as far as I can tell, what you make of it. There will be units where the day-to-day is more sedate, but I have yet to come across an AP or senior manager who isn't open to hearing from everyone on the team. So, if you engage and are open to opportunities, there is huge potential in the civil service.

Good luck to everyone applying!

job seeker · 13-10-2020 10:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This course really helped me:https://careerservices.ie/administrative-officers/preparation

It's stupidly expensive but it got me through and I've made the money back since getting the job.

I was placed back in January so I got about 10 weeks in the office before being sent home. My role is very diverse; I rarely work on the same thing two weeks in a row. I'm in a very busy Department and in a unit that's role focusses on policy development and collaboration--it makes for a dynamic job where you talk to a lot of people and have a good view of what's going on around the org. My line managers have been wonderful about giving me responsibilities and having me lead on projects; I'm quite shy and sometimes need a push but they have been so steadfast in their faith that I'll rise to the occasion, you can't help but develop in your role. I don't have anyone reporting to me, which is not unusual in my department for an AO.

The AO role is, as far as I can tell, what you make of it. There will be units where the day-to-day is more sedate, but I have yet to come across an AP or senior manager who isn't open to hearing from everyone on the team. So, if you engage and are open to opportunities, there is huge potential in the civil service.

Good luck to everyone applying!

Can I just ask, if new up to date tests are released each year from that careerservices for the AO? Or are the tests similar each year and that they don;t require updated tests?? Just curious!

edit: Apologies, I just read the link you provided! They are indeed up to date tests! Thanks a million for that!

FenFlynn · 14-10-2020 9:47am

Deleted User wrote: »

This course really helped me:https://careerservices.ie/administrative-officers/preparation

It's stupidly expensive but it got me through and I've made the money back since getting the job.

I was placed back in January so I got about 10 weeks in the office before being sent home. My role is very diverse; I rarely work on the same thing two weeks in a row. I'm in a very busy Department and in a unit that's role focusses on policy development and collaboration--it makes for a dynamic job where you talk to a lot of people and have a good view of what's going on around the org. My line managers have been wonderful about giving me responsibilities and having me lead on projects; I'm quite shy and sometimes need a push but they have been so steadfast in their faith that I'll rise to the occasion, you can't help but develop in your role. I don't have anyone reporting to me, which is not unusual in my department for an AO.

The AO role is, as far as I can tell, what you make of it. There will be units where the day-to-day is more sedate, but I have yet to come across an AP or senior manager who isn't open to hearing from everyone on the team. So, if you engage and are open to opportunities, there is huge potential in the civil service.

Good luck to everyone applying!

That's fantastic, thanks for that!
I really enjoy the civil service as well, I joined as EO a few months ago, primarily working from home but there is so much involved in my current job.

MaryRyan48 · 15-10-2020 12:15pm

Hi guys ðŸ‘‹
Does anyone know if a nationwide AO comp may run this year or is it looking likely that it will be this Dublin comp only?
Also what are the chances of getting an office that work remotely (even post pandemic!) I would accept Dublin if I only had to travel to the office one or two days a week!

Ernesto Guevara · 15-10-2020 12:18pm

MaryRyan48 wrote: »

Hi guys ðŸ‘‹
Does anyone know if a nationwide AO comp may run this year or is it looking likely that it will be this Dublin comp only?
Also what are the chances of getting an office that work remotely (even post pandemic!) I would accept Dublin if I only had to travel to the office one or two days a week!

AO is primarily just in Dublin. There won't be a nationwide campaign this year. If you're not keen on working in Dublin full time it's not the grade to be going for. Not an easy grade to transfer down the country.

MaryRyan48 · 15-10-2020 12:32pm

Ernesto Guevara wrote: »

AO is primarily just in Dublin. There won't be a nationwide campaign this year. If you're not keen on working in Dublin full time it's not the grade to be going for. Not an easy grade to transfer down the country.

Thanks Ernesto ðŸ‘
I am currently in the civil service but as an EO, looking for a bump up!! Will keep waiting!

Caro3 · 15-10-2020 3:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This course really helped me:

It's stupidly expensive but it got me through and I've made the money back since getting the job.

Would anyone else have some preparation tips for verbal + numerical + job simulation tests? Any books, courses or online tests to recommend?

What is the score required to pass to the next stage?

Do you know if the test levels are roughly the same for AO and EO competitions?

Thank you.

Chaos Black · 15-10-2020 5:56pm

Hi, see link below. Advice and sample test. In terms of difficulty, AO harder then EO tests imo.

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/information-hub/our-recruitment-process/test-advice

Marcus Antonius · 16-10-2020 10:04am

Has anyone any idea/seen any indication of when we might have the AO tests? As the deadline for the most basic application ever was a couple of weeks ago now.

mulligja · 16-10-2020 11:10am

Deleted User wrote: »

This course really helped me:https://careerservices.ie/administrative-officers/preparation

It's stupidly expensive but it got me through and I've made the money back since getting the job.

I was placed back in January so I got about 10 weeks in the office before being sent home. My role is very diverse; I rarely work on the same thing two weeks in a row. I'm in a very busy Department and in a unit that's role focusses on policy development and collaboration--it makes for a dynamic job where you talk to a lot of people and have a good view of what's going on around the org. My line managers have been wonderful about giving me responsibilities and having me lead on projects; I'm quite shy and sometimes need a push but they have been so steadfast in their faith that I'll rise to the occasion, you can't help but develop in your role. I don't have anyone reporting to me, which is not unusual in my department for an AO.

The AO role is, as far as I can tell, what you make of it. There will be units where the day-to-day is more sedate, but I have yet to come across an AP or senior manager who isn't open to hearing from everyone on the team. So, if you engage and are open to opportunities, there is huge potential in the civil service.

Good luck to everyone applying!

Thanks for tip! Have bit the bullet and am practicing with them. Quick question for you though - do you happen to remember whether there were any deductive-reasoning or inter-relations question on the very first online assessment? Or are these done in a later assessment?

Caro3 · 16-10-2020 2:01pm

Thank you for replying.
I had checked this page out but this is official information and they do not give any methodology tips on how to improve your scores.
Could anyone who has already taken these tests recommend any good training courses or books?

FenFlynn · 16-10-2020 4:43pm

mulligja wrote: »

Thanks for tip! Have bit the bullet and am practicing with them. Quick question for you though - do you happen to remember whether there were any deductive-reasoning or inter-relations question on the very first online assessment? Or are these done in a later assessment?

I was just going back my public jobs messages, deductive reasoning was defo not in 2018 campaign. I thing it was only introduced last year and I failed miserably there. 2018 at least made it through to round 2

mulligja · 16-10-2020 4:55pm

Just got familiarisation e-mail there, deductive reasoning is on the first assessment it seems.

RockabillySnap · 16-10-2020 6:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This course really helped me:https://careerservices.ie/administrative-officers/preparation

It's stupidly expensive but it got me through and I've made the money back since getting the job.

I was placed back in January so I got about 10 weeks in the office before being sent home. My role is very diverse; I rarely work on the same thing two weeks in a row. I'm in a very busy Department and in a unit that's role focusses on policy development and collaboration--it makes for a dynamic job where you talk to a lot of people and have a good view of what's going on around the org. My line managers have been wonderful about giving me responsibilities and having me lead on projects; I'm quite shy and sometimes need a push but they have been so steadfast in their faith that I'll rise to the occasion, you can't help but develop in your role. I don't have anyone reporting to me, which is not unusual in my department for an AO.

The AO role is, as far as I can tell, what you make of it. There will be units where the day-to-day is more sedate, but I have yet to come across an AP or senior manager who isn't open to hearing from everyone on the team. So, if you engage and are open to opportunities, there is huge potential in the civil service.

Good luck to everyone applying!

Could you tell me if these sample tests have the labelled tabs in verbal reasoning? That always slows me down so I'd like to practice them a bit more.

Administrative Officer 2020 in the Civil Service

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