Administrative Officer 2020 in the Civil Service

Hi, I currently work as an AO in the CS and have done for about 3 yrs. I was considering entering this competition as the rollout of the new mobility scheme for AOs has been delayed due to Covid and I would really like to transfer and gain some experience in a different Department. Does anyone know if I will remain at my current point on the payscale or if I will revert to point 1? If I remain at my current point will the date of my increment change? Also, will I have to go through a probation again? Thanks!

rostalof wrote: »

You'll continue at your current point on the payscale and with the same increment date. You're an established AO so probation won't apply either. You have nothing to lose. I know because after 4.5 years as an EO I moved department via an open competition last year and I retained my point on the salary scale, my increment date and I had no probation period. My initial contract said there would be a probationary period, but it turned out that was because the department hadn't been informed I was an established serving EO.

Thanks! I wonder if it's the policy of the CS that you don't have to do a probationary period for the same role twice or if it's at the discretion of the Department? Do you know if your pension was affected? As if there'd been a break? Was your new job treated as a transfer by your old and new Dept? Sorry for all the questions!

doc22 wrote: »

Id say it's up to the department, when you apply for an open role there's meant to be probation. But my previous role that going into I was not established in didn't even have probation in the sense of meeting and reviews as departments/staff didn't want the bother.

But say as an established EO I apply for an IT EO role(and get it), the employing department has no obligation to keep me if I'm crap at IT after 12 months and back to my old department/redeployment I go if I'm not up to it(all recent comps seem to have this condition). But this is the civil service and NOONE fails probation. Mobility "officially" is a different ball game, when you're gone you're gone.

That's the exact situation I was in. I started as an EO ICT in 2015, then moved into general service to get a transfer out of Dublin. Then three years later I was successful in another EO ICT competition and moved department. Where was this condition specified in the recent competitions? The new department might well be able to send you back if they wanted due to poor performance (although I'm not sure about that either), but if you're established as an EO or an AO for that matter, you are not obliged to undergo probation again for a grade that you are established in. If you moved to a new department while still on probation, yes, you'd have to continue as a probationer. I got that from the HR department in my new department last year. Someone else in DPER confirmed it to me.

doc22 wrote: »

This text seems to be on all open comps now(didn't see it before much)

All appointees will serve a one-year probationary period. If an appointee who fails to satisfy the conditions of probation has been a serving civil servant immediately prior to their appointment from this competition, the issue of reversion will normally arise. In the event of reversion, an officer will return to a vacancy in their former grade in their former Department

The above text was in EO IT,EO general and EO revenue comps but would apply to all grades.

For example established COs take positions in Airport and Prison service at CO levels but if the role isn't for them they often revert.Once your established in new role(passed probation) you can't revert roles.Although I read in forsa that at the time justice wanted COs to resign from their original role(presumably rather then transfer into roles)

True, that's in all current competition information booklets. I've always taken that paragraph to refer to a promotional appointment, as it specifies returning to your former grade, similar to section 43 in the attached PDF. The option to revert certainly exists to my understanding in the case of being appointed at the same grade, and it's entirely possible that probation is applicable if moving to a specialist type role in an equivalent grade as you described. But for a current standard AO to be appointed as a standard AO again, there shouldn't be a probation period. In my case I was established as an EO ICT initially, so returning to the same role meant probation wasn't applicable in this case.

Minifox wrote: »

If you are an established EO and you get AO in an open competition, do you go back to point 1 on the salary scale for AO? I suppose so, as it’s a different grade. And a one year probation period too, I guess?

If your salary is higher as a eo you can try claim back the salary point

The_Conductor wrote: »

You go to the point closest to your current salary point, without suffering a reduction in pay. Your increment date changes to your offical date of appointment in the new grade. You have a new 1 year probationary period, which if you're deemed unsatisfactory at the end of- you revert to your previous substantive grade. You would not be entitled to your old post back- you would be entitled to the next available post at your old grade that arises. It pays to keep on good terms with HR in your original Home Department........

Spot on Conductor. https://www.gov.ie/en/circular/57443f-082019-starting-pay-on-promotion/#

lucat wrote: »

Anyone else find it odd that this competition is only open for 6 days?

I'm assuming it's because the application is literally you ticking a check-box and hitting submit ...how much time do people need for something like that? It's not like you're prepping a CV or lengthier application form

lucat wrote: »

Is it? I haven't downloaded it yet. I seem to remember it was a full application form last year.

You literally tick which streams you want to apply for then hit submit.

job seeker wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what OOM I'd need to get to be in with a reasonable chance of securing a job?

If last year's thread is anything to go by, early 300's and selecting 'Dublin'.

The_Conductor wrote: »

You go to the point closest to your current salary point, without suffering a reduction in pay.

Don't you get the nearest point up from your current salary plus one increment?

I may be reading the DPER circular wrong, but according to the Circular from 08/019 regarding pay on promotion, it states that existing civil servants who get promoted and have a salary above point one of the new scale get "the nearest point above the officer's salary point plus one increment".

On page 5 they have an example of a CO whose salary is between points 3 and 4 on the AO scale, so they start on point 5.

Am I missing something?

Eylon wrote: »

I have some questions if someone can help, I'm a little confused. I saw that the EO competition was much more publicised and the Third Secretary recruitment also, but it seems that this AO recruitment is a bit more quiet. Am I wrong? And why is it directed to certain departments and not nationwide like the EO competition? Isn't it the same qualifications? I must be getting something wrong here.

Qualifications are not the same. AO you need a Level 8 degree. EO you just need a Leaving Cert. In terms of the hierarchy, AO is higher than EO, and there would be less AOs than EOs.

The AO competition comes up every year in October and is generally targeted at graduates as a result of the eligibility requirements. EO competitions are less frequent but would take on larger numbers than from an AO comp (ie. thousands of EOs vs a couple of hundred AOs) which is probably why the EO competition appeared to be much wider publicised.