Water charges for excessive usage

Plumbthedepths · 18-07-2019 9:33pm

Tommy Kelly wrote:

It didn't happen today though.

Ah good the thread was most fortunate for you so. Never waste a good story . ;-)

Tommy Kelly · 18-07-2019 9:36pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Ah good the thread was most fortunate for you so. Never waste a good story . ;-)

Have you nothing of note to add to the actual topic at all?

Feck off replying to me with those silly smiley things too.

Cheers.

Plumbthedepths · 18-07-2019 9:38pm

Tommy Kelly wrote:

Have you nothing of note to add to the actual topic at all?

I added plenty.

Tommy Kelly wrote:

Feck off replying to me with those silly smiley things too.

I find your story amusing and I just wanted to show my good humour at what I believe was an entertaining tale.

Tommy Kelly wrote:

Cheers.

Your welcome. ;-)

Brendan Bendar · 18-07-2019 9:48pm

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

Have you nothing of note to add to the actual topic at all?

Feck off replying to me with those silly smiley things too.

Cheers.

Tommy, some folk just can’t take the truth, all they want is to see the taxpayer screwed.

Please stay on the case and continue to tell it as it is.

I can see Middle Ireland exploding if people as you described are tolerated.

Govt. are you listening, because if you are not.......

blackcard · 18-07-2019 9:55pm

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

blackcard wrote: »

A lot of local authorities carried out repairs prior to Irish Water and are continuing to do so. Where Local Authorities used contractors, Irish Water are using contractors

Local authorities ideas of repairing leaks was to repair a leak on a rotten pipe and leave it at that. It's called kicking the can down the road. The rotton pipes should have been repalaced 30 years ago.

Local authorities never had private contractors in to carry out work to the scale of work that's going on now. There's massive lead replacement projects going on around the country now.

If you had a leak on the external mains pipe that supplies your home and it was inside your boundary wall the CC would tell you to fck off and repair it yourself. IW will repair it for free.

CC's are telling people to contact IW when they report known leaks everyday.

Your tax money is paying these CC workers. Remember that.

Irish Water are replacing approximately one half of one per cent of the water network in Ireland annually which is slightly more than the LA's were doing in 2008 before the Celtic Tiger died. Their ambition is to replace 1 % of the network annually if they can get sufficient funding. In the meantime, all they can do is arrange to have the rotten pipes fixed and kick the can down the road.

Snow Garden · 18-07-2019 10:18pm

Alan Dukes (FG) got it spot on when he said those immortal words in 2014...

"A glorious, god-awful mess has been made of Irish Water, we've ended up with a system now that no rational person would have invented if they had sat down to put this kind of system together. The hope must be that it will work lamely until some sort of coherent system is put in place."

Tommy Kelly · 18-07-2019 10:19pm

blackcard wrote: »

Irish Water are replacing approximately one half of one per cent of the water network in Ireland annually which is slightly more than the LA's were doing in 2008 before the Celtic Tiger died. Their ambition is to replace 1 % of the network annually if they can get sufficient funding. In the meantime, all they can do is arrange to have the rotten pipes fixed and kick the can down the road.

Do me favour and look at the projects section on their site. Then drive to and see the work being carried out on said projects. Lead pipe replacement is not a kicking a can down the road job. You'll see that yourself. There's streets, towns & main roads like that of Craughwell to Loughrea being dug up the length & breath of the country.

Same lead pipes should have been replaced 40 years ago.

blackcard · 18-07-2019 10:24pm

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

blackcard wrote: »

A lot of local authorities carried out repairs prior to Irish Water and are continuing to do so. Where Local Authorities used contractors, Irish Water are using contractors

Local authorities ideas of repairing leaks was to repair a leak on a rotten pipe and leave it at that. It's called kicking the can down the road. The rotton pipes should have been repalaced 30 years ago.

Local authorities never had private contractors in to carry out work to the scale of work that's going on now. There's massive lead replacement projects going on around the country now.

If you had a leak on the external mains pipe that supplies your home and it was inside your boundary wall the CC would tell you to fck off and repair it yourself. IW will repair it for free.

CC's are telling people to contact IW when they report known leaks everyday.

Your tax money is paying these CC workers. Remember that.

In relation to the replacement of lead pipes, the maximum allowable concentration of lead was reduced from 25 to 10 micrograms per litre in December 2013 just before Irish Water took charge in January 2014 which is why contractors are working on this now. But then, you knew this, didn't you?

InTheShadows · 18-07-2019 10:27pm

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

I knocked on the door of a house the other day to see if they'd mind turning off their inside stop valve for 2 mins while I done a test at the boundary box / meter that was feeding their house. There was an 8 litre per min constant flow going through said meter.

The door was opened by what I quickly found out to be IW protester who immediately stuck his forehead to mine on the doorstep & marched me backwards outside the boundary wall. he proceeded to tell me he didn't give two fcks about the amount of water that was going through the meter and that if I stepped inside the boundary wall again he'd mangle me that and alot of other obscenities that I couldn't repeat on here.

It's worth noting that it was a local authority house he occupied. 8 litres per min constant flow 24/7. Not to sure how that leak will be repaired now. Waste of time fining or charging that lad too.

Of course you did.

blackcard · 18-07-2019 10:28pm

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

blackcard wrote: »

Irish Water are replacing approximately one half of one per cent of the water network in Ireland annually which is slightly more than the LA's were doing in 2008 before the Celtic Tiger died. Their ambition is to replace 1 % of the network annually if they can get sufficient funding. In the meantime, all they can do is arrange to have the rotten pipes fixed and kick the can down the road.

Do me favour and look at the projects section on their site. Then drive to and see the work being carried out on said projects. Lead pipe replacement is not a kicking a can down the road job. You'll see that yourself. There's streets, towns & main roads like that of Craughwell to Loughrea being dug up the length & breath of the country.

Same lead pipes should have been replaced 40 years ago.

Actually 41 years ago, the allowable concentration of lead allowable in water was 50 micrograms per litre and there was no issues with the level of lead in water.

Tommy Kelly · 18-07-2019 10:42pm

blackcard wrote: »

Actually 41 years ago, the allowable concentration of lead allowable in water was 50 micrograms per litre and there was no issues with the level of lead in water.

Would you rather they were left in the ground and not replaced so? Might get another 40 years out of them. Don't mind our health, the taste of the water that runs through them. Say nothing bout them being full of holes. Feck it, we'll be grand shure.

blackcard · 18-07-2019 10:53pm

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

blackcard wrote: »

Actually 41 years ago, the allowable concentration of lead allowable in water was 50 micrograms per litre and there was no issues with the level of lead in water.

Would you rather they were left in the ground and not replaced so? Might get another 40 years out of them. Don't mind our health, the taste of the water that runs through them. Say nothing bout them being full of holes. Feck it, we'll be grand shure.

You have said that they should have been replaced 40 years ago when they were compliant. That is stupidity. You obviously haven't a clue what you are talking about.

Of course now that there are new regulations in place, they should be complied with.
By the way, where are the billions to replace all these leaky pipes to come from. And while we are waiting for these billions to be given to Irish Water, what do you suggest we do with the leaky pipes?

Fann Linn · 18-07-2019 11:50pm

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

[/B]

Once again LA's / CC's never ever repaired leaks on private (domestic) property only at the boundary box or on the mains on the public side. Where as IW or the contractors they have subbed in will.

I have seen this with my own eyes. I work in leak investigation / detection & I call to council houses every single day of the week where I identify large scale leaks inside the boundary wall of said properties that have been known about by the CC's for years yet did nothing about. They are being paid to repair the leaks / conserve water yet they didn't. Note I cover 4 counties & it's the same story in each county.

I know engineers working for county councils & they don't have as much as a safe pass to their name. I also know first hand the disgraceful way they spend & waste our tax payers money.

Have you a problem with me being paid to repair leaks / conserve water?

Of course local authorities didn't fix leaks on private properties. It wasn't their job to.

Benedict · 19-07-2019 7:13am

IW claims it can find out how much the non-metered homes are using by using some machine they have. If this is true, why do they want meters at all? The truth is, if you don't have a meter, IW can't prove you're going over your quota so those with no meters can use what they like - and no fines. IW can spoof all they want, but that's the truth of it.

So, it's the compliant citizens who allowed installations who will have to watch what they use. That's not fair and the people of Ireland simply won't stand for it.

The quota has to apply to all IW users equally or we won't tolerate it.

Brendan Bendar · 19-07-2019 7:31am

Benedict wrote: »

IW claims it can find out how much the non-metered homes are using by using some machine they have. If this is true, why do they want meters at all? The truth is, if you don't have a meter, IW can't prove you're going over your quota so those with no meters can use what they like - and no fines. IW can spoof all they want, but that's the truth of it.

So, it's the compliant citizens who allowed installations who will have to watch what they use. That's not fair and the people of Ireland simply won't stand for it.

The quota has to apply to all IW users equally or we won't tolerate it.

Correct Mr. B, Middle Ireland will not stand for that bulldust.

Either it’s ‘everybody in’ or this rubbish will be kicked out and whatever legislators bring it in will go with it.

This will not fly.....I will be contacting my public reps to let them know.

This looks like a very hasty badly thought-out strategy...

The Bishop Basher · 19-07-2019 7:38am

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

This looks like a very hasty badly thought-out strategy...

Same as the very hasty badly thought out strategy that got us into this mess.

Another of Enda's great legacies..

He really was utterly incompetent in every sense of the word. As a nation we'll be picking up the pieces for many decades to come.

Plumbthedepths · 19-07-2019 7:40am

Brendan Bendar wrote:

Correct Mr. B, Middle Ireland will not stand for that bulldust.

In the words of Conor McGregor 'you'll do nothin'.

Benedict · 19-07-2019 7:56am

IW cannot figure out a fair method for imposing a quota so they've decided to run with an unfair method. This is so dumb it's beyond belief that they actually believe that the people of Ireland will go along with it. They have already admitted, for example, that quotas will not be applied to apartments.

So if you live in an apartment folks (or a house with no meter), the good news is you can have a 30 minute power-shower every morning (and wash the car every evening) with no charge. (And you're family can do the same)

But if you live in a house (with a meter)? That'll cost you 500 a year!

And the Irish people will just suck this up? Yeah?

gctest50 · 19-07-2019 8:30am

Benedict wrote: »

........

They have already admitted, for example, that quotas will not be applied to apartments.

..........

Did they say they will never apply to apartments ?

Or did they put some bit of a time scale on it ?

blackcard · 19-07-2019 8:40am

Benedict wrote: »

IW cannot figure out a fair method for imposing a quota so they've decided to run with an unfair method. This is so dumb it's beyond belief that they actually believe that the people of Ireland will go along with it. They have already admitted, for example, that quotas will not be applied to apartments.

So if you live in an apartment folks (or a house with no meter), the good news is you can have a 30 minute power-shower every morning (and wash the car every evening) with no charge. (And you're family can do the same)

But if you live in a house (with a meter)? That'll cost you 500 a year!

And the Irish people will just suck this up? Yeah?

It is totally unfair. Everyone should be allowed to have a 30 minute shower every morning and wash their car daily and leave taps running. That will show them
The bigger issue for me is fixing the mains and where the money for this is going to come from.

GreeBo · 19-07-2019 9:08am

The Bishop Basher wrote: »

In Wicklow they were using over 90% of LPT revenue collected from us to setup and fund IW. They also have all that motor tax, of which i've just paid €1494 which again goes towards the funding of IW. I pay well over 50% of everything i earn in both direct and indirect taxation while getting fluck all in return and paying for all other services separately, and now they think i'm going to pay yet again for what is nothing more then a bloated quango with a history of wasting tax payers money while looking after "their own".

Last time I checked I didn't have gob****e written across my forehead.

I just don't give my cash away that easily to the government or to anyone else. It's too hard earned and so it's never wasted. Why do the government think i'd give it to them to waste ? Not a hope. It's step too far and i'll go to prison for it if necessary.

Eliminate the waste from the public system, stop throwing all our money at the most expensive children's hospital in the world and in the wrong location, stop wasting our money on dodgy contracts, and failed broadband rollouts, stop supporting and protecting those making fraudulent insurance claims, reduce the obscene pensions bill etc etc etc. The list goes on.. Start spending our money wisely so we can see a return on our taxes and then, but only maybe then, we can discuss water charges but for now they are dead in the water and so is any government that tries to introduce them.

Sorry what? You "get fluck all in return"?
So you dont have electricity or water or gas in your house? Your car doesnt drive on roads? You dont have children or have ever used public facilities like a school or library? Or a hospital? Or the bus?

Perhaps you need to check that forehead again?

GreeBo · 19-07-2019 9:10am

The Bishop Basher wrote: »

No

No

By causing trouble do you mean exercising their lawful right to peaceful protest ?

Yes they will protest.

Look, you choose to be a sucker and pay that's your call.

Many of us see no reason to follow your lead and will stand up and fight this as we did last time.

So you prefer to have *your* income tax paying for other peoples excessive water usage?
makes sense to me

blackcard · 19-07-2019 9:11am

Benedict wrote: »

IW cannot figure out a fair method for imposing a quota so they've decided to run with an unfair method. This is so dumb it's beyond belief that they actually believe that the people of Ireland will go along with it. They have already admitted, for example, that quotas will not be applied to apartments.

So if you live in an apartment folks (or a house with no meter), the good news is you can have a 30 minute power-shower every morning (and wash the car every evening) with no charge. (And you're family can do the same)

But if you live in a house (with a meter)? That'll cost you 500 a year!

And the Irish people will just suck this up? Yeah?

New legislation is being brought in which will allow Irish Water to install meters in apartments. Not sure how that works.

blackcard · 19-07-2019 9:18am

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Benedict wrote: »

IW claims it can find out how much the non-metered homes are using by using some machine they have. If this is true, why do they want meters at all? The truth is, if you don't have a meter, IW can't prove you're going over your quota so those with no meters can use what they like - and no fines. IW can spoof all they want, but that's the truth of it.

So, it's the compliant citizens who allowed installations who will have to watch what they use. That's not fair and the people of Ireland simply won't stand for it.

The quota has to apply to all IW users equally or we won't tolerate it.

Correct Mr. B, Middle Ireland will not stand for that bulldust.

Either it’s ‘everybody in’ or this rubbish will be kicked out and whatever legislators bring it in will go with it.

This will not fly.....I will be contacting my public reps to let them know.

This looks like a very hasty badly thought-out strategy...

In England and Wales, householders are either charged a fixed rate or by volume if a meter has been installed. You can request a meter for free if one is not already installed. Can't see that happening here

GreeBo · 19-07-2019 9:23am

blackcard wrote: »

In England and Wales, householders are either charged a fixed rate or by volume if a meter has been installed. You can request a meter for free if one is not already installed. Can't see that happening here

Which is how it should work....you get charged a base rate per person in the house, if you think you use more then get a meter to prove it.

Boggles · 19-07-2019 10:06am

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

I knocked on the door of a house the other day to see if they'd mind turning off their inside stop valve for 2 mins while I done a test at the boundary box / meter that was feeding their house. There was an 8 litre per min constant flow going through said meter.

An 8 litre a minute constant flow is a pretty serious leak. That's 11,500 liters a day.

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

Not to sure how that leak will be repaired now. Waste of time fining or charging that lad too.

If it was a local authority house like you said they are legally entitled to enter the property, safety of their staff is paramount and if they are met with any physical aggression that person will be removed by the Gardaí.

But if you are telling the thread that you have reported that leak to Irish Water and nothing will be done about it, they are even more useless than I give them credit for.

I imagine a leak of that magnitude would not be internal anyway.

Boggles · 19-07-2019 10:16am

blackcard wrote: »

New legislation is being brought in which will allow Irish Water to install meters in apartments. Not sure how that works.

Really? Have you a link for that? Don't see why they would need legislation.

Did the regulator not tell Irish Water to cease metering and make it voluntary as it was costing too much and taking needed revenue away from fixing the actual problems?

Was this ignored?

Tommy Kelly · 19-07-2019 10:19am

Boggles wrote: »

An 8 litre a minute constant flow is a pretty serious leak. That's 11,500 liters a day.

If it was a local authority house like you said they are legally entitled to enter the property, safety of their staff is paramount and if they are met with any physical aggression that person will be removed by the Gardaí.

But if you are telling the thread that you have reported that leak to Irish Water and nothing will be done about it, they are even more useless than I give them credit for.

I imagine a leak of that magnitude would not be internal anyway.

99 per cent sure its inside the boundary wall in the garden somewhere as the listening device did not pick up a high reading at the BB. Irish water will obviously get this leak sorted somehow. I just said I'm not to sure how yet as it's the first time I've ever came across a situation like that.

I think the first fix sheme is a great service. The customers that have leaks on their property do as well. Especially if the leak is near the boundary wall of their houses which a large majority of them are, at the point of entry.

Tommy Kelly · 19-07-2019 10:23am

blackcard wrote: »

New legislation is being brought in which will allow Irish Water to install meters in apartments. Not sure how that works.

Internal meters can be attached to the mains / pipe that supplies the cold water tap.

Many commercial businesses have internal water meters.

Benedict · 19-07-2019 10:29am

blackcard wrote: »

New legislation is being brought in which will allow Irish Water to install meters in apartments. Not sure how that works.

Just because they're "allowed" to put them into apartments, doesn't mean they will install them? They can't because they can't figure out how to do it!

Don't forget there are many homes which were willing to accept meters but IW eventually got fed up installing them and just decided to stop! These home-owners were out at their front gates saying "Give us a meter" and IW said "Sorry, we're not installing them any more".

IW went home in a sulk. The whole thing is mad!

Tommy Kelly · 19-07-2019 10:35am

Benedict wrote: »

Just because they're "allowed" to put them into apartments, doesn't mean they will install them? They can't because they can't figure out how to do it!

Don't forget there are many homes which were willing to accept meters but IW eventually got fed up installing them and just decided to stop! These home-owners were out at their front gates saying "Give us a meter" and IW said "Sorry, we're not installing them any more".

IW went home in a sulk. The whole thing is mad!

There are crews the lenght & breath of the country installing meters for those that request a meter as well as replacing / upgrading fire hydrants and identifying / repairing leaks on domestic properties.

Boggles · 19-07-2019 10:38am

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

I think the first fix sheme is a great service. The customers that have leaks on their property do as well. Especially if the leak is near the boundary wall of their houses which a large majority of them are, at the point of entry.

In this instance, it is not their property.

The "customer" for the first fix scheme is the local authority.

If it is a struggle to fix their properties then we might as well give up.

Tommy Kelly · 19-07-2019 10:44am

Boggles wrote: »

In this instance, it is not their property.

The "customer" for the first fix scheme is the local authority.

If it is a struggle to fix their properties then we might as well give up.

It won't be a struggle. But not everything is straight forward. People & certain situations can make things more difficult. It's pretty much the same in every job.

Boggles · 19-07-2019 10:46am

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

There are crews the lenght & breath of the country installing meters for those that request a meter as well as replacing / upgrading fire hydrants and identifying / repairing leaks on domestic properties.

It was my understanding domestic metering was suspended completely?

Boggles · 19-07-2019 10:46am

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

It won't be a struggle. But not everything is straight forward. People & certain situations can make things more difficult. It's pretty much the same in every job.

A Local Authority house would be far more straight forward than an awkward private dwelling.

blackcard · 19-07-2019 10:53am

Boggles wrote: »

blackcard wrote: »

New legislation is being brought in which will allow Irish Water to install meters in apartments. Not sure how that works.

Really? Have you a link for that? Don't see why they would need legislation.

Did the regulator not tell Irish Water to cease metering and make it voluntary as it was costing too much and taking needed revenue away from fixing the actual problems?

Was this ignored?

If you Google 'Water meter apartments ' it will bring you to the Irish Water website which refers to the legislation.
The utilities regulator has approved the proposal for charging for excessive usage so that is probably why there is no issue with metering apartments

Tommy Kelly · 19-07-2019 10:55am

Boggles wrote: »

It was my understanding domestic metering was suspended completely?

There are plenty of people requesting that they have a metered supply installed. Especially those that are on shared supply as in one meter measuring the water consumption for several different dwellings / properties.

You'd be surprised how many people monitor their own water usuage via the meter. As they don't want water being wasted via leaks etc.

Like I said before if there are no plumbing issues in your house and there is no leak between the boundary box and the point of entry well then you'd have absolutely nothing to worry about re: charges.

Internal plumbing issues / external leaks between the boundary box and the point of entry will be flagged pretty much at a drop of a hat via what's called a CFA (constant flow alarm) Customers will be contacted straight away.

blackcard · 19-07-2019 11:08am

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

blackcard wrote: »

New legislation is being brought in which will allow Irish Water to install meters in apartments. Not sure how that works.

Internal meters can be attached to the mains / pipe that supplies the cold water tap.

Many commercial businesses have internal water meters.

Yeah, I imagine that they will only install individual meters for apartments where a bulkmeter shows serious usage in the apartment block

Brendan Bendar · 19-07-2019 11:14am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

In the words of Conor McGregor 'you'll do nothin'.

How do you come to that conclusion, at a matter of interest?

Plumbthedepths · 19-07-2019 11:18am

Brendan Bendar wrote:

How do you come to that conclusion, at a matter of interest?

The lack of protest around the majority of austerity measures imposed, you march against the water charges B or did you take to Social Media and sneer the protesters as many did?

Brendan Bendar · 19-07-2019 11:23am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The lack of protest around the majority of austerity measures imposed, you march against the water charges B or did you take to Social Media and sneer the protesters as many did?

There are more ways to tackle issues than by ‘marching’ my friend.

What ‘austerity measures’ do you feel we’re not adequately opposed as a matter of interest?

Plumbthedepths · 19-07-2019 11:28am

Brendan Bendar wrote:

There are more ways to tackle issues than by â€˜marchingâ€™ my friend.

True, non payment was infinitely far more effective.

Brendan Bendar wrote:

What â€˜austerity measuresâ€™ do you feel weâ€™re not adequately opposed as a matter of interest?

The only measure I saw that was opposed was the household charge. I don't remember any other protests maybe you could enlighten if I'm incorrect. It seems to me middle Ireland just rolled over as they will again.

MacDanger · 19-07-2019 11:46am

ChikiChiki wrote: »

The main reason for the water charge protests from a few years ago was the blatant corruption and cronyism that was going on. People were not going to pay for that.

It was never about paying for water for the majority of the protesters most of whom would have no issue paying for usage. I was proud that day over 100,000 people walked through the city centre.

Hmmm, so how come the protests stopped once having to pay for water stopped? Did the "blatant corruption and cronyism" stop once bills were not longer being issued?

MacDanger · 19-07-2019 11:51am

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Ah, good. That's okay I already do. I thought they were looking for money for something I already pay for. Phew.

Where do you think the money for replacing the water pipes should come from?

Tommy Kelly · 19-07-2019 11:55am

Boggles wrote: »

A Local Authority house would be far more straight forward than an awkward private dwelling.

Doesn't make a difference really if the occupier makes threats as into what will be done to you if set foot inside the boundary wall. Like I said that was the only time that has ever happened me in approx 2000 jobs to date. People are always polite and helpful. Partuculary the farming community as they are actually paying for what they use / flows through their metered feed.

Boggles · 19-07-2019 11:56am

Deleted User wrote: »

Put Ireland's water is owned by the people of Ireland, and will never be privatised in the Constitution, then I'll pay.

Until then, not a penny.

You'd imagine that would be a high priority given it was one of the key recommendations of the Water Committee back in 2017.

For some reason though Fine Gael decided that our Blasphemy laws needed amending before it.

Strange one.

Plumbthedepths · 19-07-2019 11:56am

Tommy Kelly wrote:

Doesn't make a difference really if the occupier makes threats as into what will be done to you if set foot inside the boundary wall. Like I said that was the only time that has ever happened me in approx 2000 jobs to date. People are always polite and helpful. Partuculary the farming community as they are actually paying for what they use.

The farming community are a commercial enterprise just like any other for profit business.

Tommy Kelly · 19-07-2019 11:59am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The farming community are a commercial enterprise just like any other for profit business.

Your're a wealth of knowedge again today.

Brendan Bendar · 19-07-2019 12:02pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

True, non payment was infinitely far more effective.

The only measure I saw that was opposed was the household charge. I don't remember any other protests maybe you could enlighten if I'm incorrect. It seems to me middle Ireland just rolled over as they will again.

I was wondering what other “austerity measures” did you think should have been opposed.

Sorry if I was unclear on that.

Plumbthedepths · 19-07-2019 12:03pm

Tommy Kelly wrote:

Your're a wealth of knowedge again today.

Almost as relevant as your comment yesterday. Farmers are a business or do you disagree with one sector paying commercial charges. Which are an allowable business expense.

Water charges for excessive usage

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