Woman Loses Job for Holding Gender Critical Opinions.

Roger Hassenforder · 08-05-2019 1:15am

klaaaz wrote: »

Actually it was in 2008 that the first man in the world gave birth to a baby which was in the UKSA.
https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1005891/itv-this-morning-eamonn-holmes-ruth-langsford-pregnant-man-thomas-beatie*

klaaaz wrote: »

He was female at birth and now is male.

klaaaz wrote: »

As for the woman who physically transitioned to a man, they carried over their ability to give birth as a man.

Stop the planet, I need to get off.

*He identified as male at birth.
He supplied the uterus and eggs, eggs beng the female gamete, uterus being the female organ of gestation . Fertilized by donor sperm. Sperm being the male gamete.

*Legal recognition of a persons gender identity, cant change biology. If (as a human) you supplied the egg and gestated the embryo to term, you're biologically of the female sex. You can identify as whatever you want, and be recognized as such, have certain charachteristics of the opposite sex via surgery . But the law doesnt affect biology.

BattleCorp · 08-05-2019 8:48am

klaaaz wrote: »

Hi, he was afab(assigned female at birth) and transitioned to male.

Assigned female at birth. I've heard it all now.

In simple English, she was born a female. She was female at birth. That's the biological truth of the matter. Biologically she is/was female.

I've no problem with someone transitioning, if that's what they want to do, work away. If they want to live their lives as another gender, go ahead. But you can't deny biology.

Men can't give birth to babies. The person who gave birth to the baby is biologically a woman.

fonecrusher1 · 08-05-2019 11:56am

klaaaz wrote: »

Hi, he was afab(assigned female at birth) and transitioned to male.

I swear to god I have never heard such delusional, factually warped tripe in all my life. Yeah a man gave birth to a child. Sure he did. Its a bloody woman who's decided to transition to appear as a male ffs. Cop on.

Honestly I find it worrying. Is this utter shyte actually being taught in schools or there a possibility if could be in the future? I'm all for gender / transition / identification recognition / acceptance, whatever its called this month (live and let live etc etc) but this is taking the piss.

eagle eye · 08-05-2019 12:00pm

BattleCorp wrote:

If you were an internationally renowned researcher on tax avoidance, that opinion would get you fired. Or contract not renewed. Whichever.

Yeah as I said earlier the liberals have become the fascists.

KikiLaRue · 08-05-2019 12:07pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah as I said earlier the liberals have become the fascists.

You don't know what the word fascist means.

eagle eye · 08-05-2019 12:13pm

KikiLaRue wrote:

You don't know what the word fascist means.

I do.but I'm using it in a different form like the Nazis. The liberals have become the Nazis, does that suit you better?

KikiLaRue · 08-05-2019 12:17pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I do.but I'm using it in a different form like the Nazis. The liberals have become the Nazis, does that suit you better?

You don't know what the word Nazi means.

(Unless you're telling me Liberals have death camps where they are exterminating minorities, in which case, please do tell me more)

eagle eye · 08-05-2019 12:33pm

KikiLaRue wrote:

(Unless you're telling me Liberals have death camps where they are exterminating minorities, in which case, please do tell me more)
You don't know what the word Nazi means.

Thats the way it's heading. It's currently at the stage where if you disagree publically with the views of the liberals you lose your job. Next step concentration camps and then stoning to death.

Roger Hassenforder · 08-05-2019 12:34pm

KikiLaRue wrote: »

You don't know what the word Nazi means.

(Unless you're telling me Liberals have death camps where they are exterminating minorities, in which case, please do tell me more)

You can exterminate minorities without being a Nazi...

KikiLaRue · 08-05-2019 12:35pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Thats the way it's heading. It's currently at the stage where if you disagree publically with the views of the liberals you lose your job. Next step concentration camps and then stoning to death.

That was on the agenda at my last meeting of the Lefty Liberal Snowflakes Society.

I can't believe you've found us out.

Sshhhh.

Zorya · 08-05-2019 1:44pm

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Honestly I find it worrying. Is this utter shyte actually being taught in schools or there a possibility if could be in the future?

One might like to think not.

Buuuuuut no such luck. Brighton and Hove's Labour dominated council in the UK issued guidelines to schools at the end of last year to advise that teachers must tell children that “Trans boys and men and non-binary people may have periods.”

The guidance advises teachers that language used to talk about menstruation should be inclusive of all genders and that bins for tampons and other period products should be provided in male and female school lavatories.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boys-can-have-periods-too-primary-pupils-are-taught-hg5lb85mp

This is the same Labour party whose national Women's Officer told M Forstater to go fnck herself, a party who also has another local women's officer, Tanya Love, also a transwoman, who publicly invites people who disagree with them to ''suck her big lady cock.''

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dp9jo-yX4AEDipt.jpg

Anyways I wish these people who become actual women by simply having feelings could in reality have great big gushing periods, monster ones that bring them to their knees. Yep, and every month too! Heh.

jimgoose · 08-05-2019 1:49pm

Zorya wrote: »

...a party who also has another local women's officer, Tanya Love, also a transwoman, who publicly invites people who disagree with them to ''suck her big lady cock.'...

I would take great pleasure in kicking that... thing unconscious.

Zorya · 08-05-2019 1:52pm

jimgoose wrote: »

I would take great please in kicking that... thing unconscious.

I'm not violent by nature but I would certainly be doing this at them if we met...

tenor.gif?itemid=9806845

Danzy · 08-05-2019 2:20pm

Zorya wrote: »

One might like to think not.

Buuuuuut no such luck. Brighton and Hove's Labour dominated council in the UK issued guidelines to schools at the end of last year to advise that teachers must tell children that “Trans boys and men and non-binary people may have periods.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boys-can-have-periods-too-primary-pupils-are-taught-hg5lb85mp

This is the same Labour party whose national Women's Officer told M Forstater to go fnck herself, a party who also has another local women's officer, Tanya Love, also a transwoman, who publicly invites people who disagree with them to ''suck her big lady cock.''

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dp9jo-yX4AEDipt.jpg

Anyways I wish these people who become actual women by simply having feelings could in reality have great big gushing periods, monster ones that bring them to their knees. Yep, and every month too! Heh.

Terfs are the new Jews for Labour activists.
(The Jews are also the new Jews).

Brighton and Hove Labour are noted for extreme views.

Quite a few of its leading members have been reported to the ECHR and other bodies for promoting racial hatred.

Danzy · 08-05-2019 2:26pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

You can exterminate minorities without being a Nazi...

Example being nearly every Communist State in history, they often put their erstwhile allies in the 3rd Reich to shame in that regard.

Baggly · 08-05-2019 2:29pm

jimgoose wrote: »

I would take great pleasure in kicking that... thing unconscious.

Mod

Dont post in this thread again thanks. Pick a pronoun as you like (be it matching with what the target wants or not), but no need to be calling a person a thing.

fonecrusher1 · 08-05-2019 2:49pm

Zorya wrote: »

One might like to think not.

Buuuuuut no such luck. Brighton and Hove's Labour dominated council in the UK issued guidelines to schools at the end of last year to advise that teachers must tell children that “Trans boys and men and non-binary people may have periods.”

Bye bye factually correct human Physiology. We've no need for you anymore, we now have the makey upey school of nonsense biology. Daft.

LLMMLL · 08-05-2019 6:59pm

Zorya wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

Legal right? Those rights probably never would have happened if there were 100 trans people I the world. There wouldn't even be one per country.

And if there were less than one per country it would be far more likely that it was an artifact of personal experience.

What these silly "if I say I identify as a unicorn am I a unicorn" arguments ignore is that there is no comparable issue. People don't identify as unicorns in any great number.

The fact is there are FAR more than 100 trans people in the world. Trying to muddy the waters with the non existent issue of cross racial identification is exactly that. An attempt to muddy the waters.

Even if one does ignore the fact that practically nobody identifies as a different race there are multiple issues surrounding that which I'm not going to bother getting into. What is race? Is it similar to gender or sex or different? Are there analogues to the sex/gender situation of a male child who loses their penis being raised as a female but identifying as a male in later life? Etc etc.

What about the furries, LLMMLL? Quite a lot of them about. Trans species. Don't pull up the ladder after ya!

This came up in a previous thread so I researched it. None of the people involve identify AS a lion/wolf/whatever. Every single article I found on the issue had quotes from the people involved which demonstrated that they were under no illusion that they are a human. Most commonly they said they identify WITH a particular animal, like taking on its persona as a form of release, etc.

There were a few different reasons given by different people, but none were in any way comparable to what trans people say about their experience.

It's a completely different issue and more muddying of the waters.

RWCNT · 08-05-2019 7:04pm

Zorya wrote: »

Brighton and Hove's Labour dominated council in the UK issued guidelines to schools at the end of last year to advise that teachers must tell children that “Trans boys and men and non-binary people may have periods.”

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Bye bye factually correct human Physiology. We've no need for you anymore, we now have the makey upey school of nonsense biology. Daft.

Trans men/boys have the biology of a female, so they can have periods. Same for anyone that identifies as non binary but has the female plumbing. What is wrong with that statement exactly?

LLMMLL · 08-05-2019 7:05pm

Candamir wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

If it becomes evident that female prisoners are particularly at risk from self Id trans women then one can claim it's an issue.

LLMMLL wrote: »

In the US no. I don't think gay men are safe and many straight men aren't safe either in these spaces.

In Ireland? I've actually no idea.

LLMMLL wrote: »

Hard to find anyone other than Karen White. I don't think it's the widespread issue you're making it out to be.

So even though you (seem to) accept that trans men are not safe in men’s prisons,(but don’t seem to want to actually say it) and that female prisoners have been harmed by trans women prisoners, you’re still ok with going against men’s and particularly woman’s rights to be housed separately, and you want to wait until the assaults and rapes happen in Ireland until you change your mind.

Look, the fact is that women have rights, and that trans people also have rights. There are points where these rights come into conflict - sports and prisons being two of them. Rather than shutting down the conversation with cries of Transphobes! or repeating the ‘trans women are biological women’ mantra, would it not be better to accept there’s an issue and find a way to solve it to every bodies advantage, in so far as we can.
These issues will end up backfiring on the trans community and increasing animosity towards them.

I did not accept that trans men are not safe in men's prisons. I quite explicitly said that I would expect them not to be safe in a US prison, which are reputedly awful, violent places.

I do not know whether they would be safe in other prisons. For example, I know a gay guy who spent time in an Irish prison and it was in his own words, zero issue.

I am unwilling to make policy based on assumptions and 1 case (Karen White) that aligns with those assumptions.

And stop pretending you've been shouted down with cries of transphobe. I've fully engaged with you.

How Soon Is Now · 08-05-2019 7:06pm

Wtf happened to the world I live in!!

08-05-2019 7:32pm

RWCNT wrote:

Trans men/boys have the biology of a female, so they can have periods. Same for anyone that identifies as non binary but has the female plumbing. What is wrong with that statement exactly?

I'll try to make this as clear as I can. If you have "female plumbing", you aren't a man or a boy. You are a woman or a girl.

Utter lack of comprehension and mental gymnastics that some of you people go through just so you can look progressive is astounding.

Men cannot have periods and can not give birth. Women can not ejaculate from their penis with sperm from their testicles.

Please, please try to dispute that

RWCNT · 08-05-2019 7:48pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'll try to make this as clear as I can. If you have "female plumbing", you aren't a man or a boy. You are a woman or a girl.

Utter lack of comprehension and mental gymnastics that some of you people go through just so you can look progressive is astounding.

Men cannot have periods and can not give birth. Women can not ejaculate from their penis with sperm from their testicles.

Please, please try to dispute that

Sure, Gender identity and biological sex aren't the same thing.

They match up for the vast overwhelming majority of people but not for everybody, therefore Trans people exist. I consider trans women to be women & trans men to be men, while acknowledging that their sex is the opposite of the gender they identify with.

Its not mental gymnastics, its simple logic.

ceadaoin. · 08-05-2019 7:56pm

RWCNT wrote: »

Sure, Gender identity and biological sex aren't the same thing.

They match up for the vast overwhelming majority of people but not for everybody, therefore Trans people exist. I consider trans women to be women & trans men to be men, while acknowledging that their sex is the opposite of the gender they identify with.

Its not mental gymnastics, its simple logic.

you are right on this, it is simple logic, but it's saying just that which resulted in the woman in the OP losing her job. We've had people on this thread called irrationally angry and hateful conspiracy theorists for saying the same, that biological sex remains the same regardless of gender identity

Roger Hassenforder · 08-05-2019 7:58pm

RWCNT wrote: »

Sure, Gender identity and biological sex aren't the same thing.

They match up for the vast overwhelming majority of people but not for everybody, therefore Trans people exist. I consider trans women to be women & trans men to be men, while acknowledging that their sex is the opposite of the gender they identify with.

Its not mental gymnastics, its simple logic.

I suppose the difficulty is, there are those that agree with the first part, but are of the view while a trans women's gender is woman, their biological sex is a man. They are males.

Ive no issue referring to whatever pronouns a transwoman/transman would prefer me to use, or to treat them as their preferred gender.
But you cant deny biology. Or change a sex fact, at the stroke of a pen/cut of a scalpel.

Zorya · 08-05-2019 8:06pm

Graham Linehan, who I have only vaguely been aware of besides Father Ted, has decided to back off for a while from supporting women who are trying to hold onto their sex-based rights and protections, because of the abuse he is getting. He has written a piece on Medium which I saw linked on twitter. The most interesting part of it, in my opinion, is a quote he gives from a transwoman called Kristina Harrison.

Kristina Harrison, who is herself trans, was asked which rights did women have that were in danger from the current incarnation of ‘trans rights’. She gave the following answer.

“The right of the oppressed to organise their own self-defence against sexism. The right to define themselves & uphold the legitimacy of their shared experience of socialisation & biological struggles. The right to be represented equally and by women. The right to male-free spaces such as rape crisis centres, domestic violence shelters, feminist meetings. The right to scholarships addressing female disadvantage. The right to strive for a more level playing field in sport, not have a more unequal one imposed. The right to exclusive same-sex love without being shamed or undermined as genital fetishists or slurred as bigots by homophobic gender ideologues. The right to accurate statistics so that we can best understand & challenge sex-based disadvantage & respond to service needs. The right to basic democratic rights, to assemble, debate, meet with political representatives, to play a full role in political life advancing feminist politics without intimidation, demonisation, no-platforming, banning, losing livelihood, police intimidation, and vexatious lawsuits, threats or even violence. To protect children from the weakening of safeguarding best-practice and from having fixed and potentially damaging labels attached to them which may prevent them from getting the support they really need and railroad them toward being permanently medicalised with irreversible treatments which may not be appropriate for them.

Amen, Kristina. Though we do not share the same brand of feminism I am grateful you have laid out many of the issues so clearly.

08-05-2019 8:38pm

RWCNT wrote:

They match up for the vast overwhelming majority of people but not for everybody, therefore Trans people exist. I consider trans women to be women & trans men to be men, while acknowledging that their sex is the opposite of the gender they identify with.

So you consider a trans woman to be a woman yet still recognise they aren't a woman?

rgodard80a · 08-05-2019 9:03pm

RWCNT wrote: »

I consider trans women to be women & trans men to be men, while acknowledging that their sex is the opposite of the gender they identify with.

Its not mental gymnastics, its simple logic.

The first part of your quote is not "logic", it's opinion.

pinkyeye · 08-05-2019 10:02pm

Zorya wrote: »

Maya Forstater is a internationally renowned researcher on Tax Avoidance, who worked until recently at the London office of the Centre for Global Development (CGD) think tank.

In March she wrote an article calling for open debate about the consequences of Gender Self ID, particularly with respect to the implications for women. She says womanhood is defined by biological fact not by feeling.

This is the article.
https://medium.com/@MForstater/international-development-lets-talk-about-sex-eb9de927c787

She has been fired from her position on the grounds that she used ''offensive and exclusionary language'' and that she is ''fear-mongering''.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tax-expert-fired-for-saying-trans-women-aren-t-women-tpqgnm9vj

She is taking her employer to court to argue that ...

https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/fired-maya/

When people are so gleeful about certain opinions being censored on internet platfroms, remember that censorship can extend exponentially. Their opinions censored today, yours tomorrow. Their job today, yours tomorrow.

Biological facts are now a reason for censorship and job loss.

You have an absolute and scary obsession with trans people OP, is there a reason for that?

Have you had a bad experience or what is the story?

RWCNT · 08-05-2019 11:53pm

rgodard80a wrote: »

The first part of your quote is not "logic", it's opinion.

I did say "I consider" - my opinions are of course based on things I consider to be true. The logic in how I've came to the conclusion is pretty consistent IMO so I feel an accusation of "performing mental gymnastics to appear progressive" is unwarranted. According to ceadoin this thread is about a woman who got sacked for saying the same things I've said, so I must be doing a **** job at appearing progressive anyway.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I suppose the difficulty is, there are those that agree with the first part, but are of the view while a trans women's gender is woman, their biological sex is a man. They are males.

Ive no issue referring to whatever pronouns a transwoman/transman would prefer me to use, or to treat them as their preferred gender.
But you cant deny biology. Or change a sex fact, at the stroke of a pen/cut of a scalpel.

That's where the argument comes up every time really isn't it? Whether you define someone as man or woman by their chromosomes or how they identify.

I don't believe that it's possible to change sex biologically but I don't base whether I consider someone to be a man or a woman by their chromosomes.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you consider a trans woman to be a woman yet still recognise they aren't a woman?

I do consider a trans woman to be a woman, based on their gender identity. I don't agree that I'm "recognising that they aren't a woman" by acknowledging their biological sex, as explained above. If you are of the opposing view, there's probably little we can do to convince eachother. If we disagree over whether gender and sex are in fact the same thing, all we can do is go around in circles. Like most of these threads tend to.

Woman Loses Job for Holding Gender Critical Opinions.

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