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Gaa Congress 2021

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    #32
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,587 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    dobman88 wrote: »
    So the Offaly footballers you spoke to are only interested in playing if they get food coverage? Maybe that attitude might be contributing to them being a bit shìte.

    Wonder are they making any demands for junior teams in Offaly county championship to be put into the senior championship?

    Sure Offalys biggest problem with the hurling is they don't get an automatic right to be in the Liam McCarthy taking batins every year cause they were good 25 years ago


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    #33
    Big Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 8,967 ✭✭✭Big Ears


    dobman88 wrote: »
    So the Offaly footballers you spoke to are only interested in playing if they get food coverage? Maybe that attitude might be contributing to them being a bit shìte.

    Wonder are they making any demands for junior teams in Offaly county championship to be put into the senior championship?

    No these lads will probably slog it out year after year giving everything they have for as long as they're on the County panel.....as they've done before.
    They'd just prefer things the way they are, if a new secondary competition is going to be completely neglected by the media.......which tbf, there is every chance of.

    Funny you should ask that, as one of them is quite keen on a parish Championship in Offaly (along with probably most football supporters in the County), which would facilitate top Junior players playing at a Senior level. The logistics of fitting it in with hurling is probably one of the main issues.

    But by all means continue slagging the attitude of men you know nothing about.


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    #34
    dobman88
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭dobman88


    Big Ears wrote: »
    No these lads will probably slog it out year after year giving everything they have for as long as they're on the County panel.....as they've done before.
    They'd just prefer things the way they are, if a new secondary competition is going to be completely neglected by the media.......which tbf, there is every chance of.

    Funny you should ask that, as one of them is quite keen on a parish Championship in Offaly (along with probably most football supporters in the County), which would facilitate top Junior players playing at a Senior level. The logistics of fitting it in with hurling is probably one of the main issues.

    But by all means continue slagging the attitude of men you know nothing about.

    So theyd rather play away with almost zero chance of winning anything bar a league, maybe. Instead of playing in an all Ireland competition at a level they can be competitive in.

    Well that's a completely different thing to what I posted. That's not a junior team jumping into the senior championship. That's a "best of the rest" district side playing senior. Kerry have the same set up where districts, like current county champions East Kerry, play in the senior county championship. It has given lads like David Clifford exposure to top level football. His own club is a junior club that plays in the club championship.

    You're the one that brought up their defeatist attitude.


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    #35
    Say Your Number
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,987 Mod ✭✭✭✭Say Your Number


    If I was on the panel of a team taking part in the second tier competition, I don't think I'd bother my arse with it, no one gave a sh1te about the Tommy Murphy cup, what is the point of introducing virtually the same thing again.


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    #36
    dobman88
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭dobman88


    Say Your Number wrote: »
    If I was on the panel of a team taking part in the second tier competition, I don't think I'd bother my arse with it, no one gave a sh1te about the Tommy Murphy cup, what is the point of introducing virtually the same thing again.

    Yeah, sure why bother your arse playing for your county in a competition that you have a genuine chance of winning to get yourself an all Ireland medal :pac:

    I can guarantee you the Antrim hurlers were delighted with their all Ireland while the Kerry lads they beat were completely gutted. Just because you might not care, I guarantee you players do.


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    #37
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,587 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Big Ears wrote: »
    No these lads will probably slog it out year after year giving everything they have for as long as they're on the County panel.....as they've done before.
    They'd just prefer things the way they are, if a new secondary competition is going to be completely neglected by the media.......which tbf, there is every chance of.

    Tell me how much media coverage are Offaly footballers getting in the Sam Mcguire right now cause from what I can see unless ye are playing Dublin the country or media couldn't give a toss about ye.
    That's not a dig at Offaly it's the same for us in Limerick and half the counties in the championship. 2 mins at the arse end of the Sunday Game and a paragraph in the national papers. They are already neglected as are all teams in all sports that are not winning


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    #38
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,888 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    Surely the could GAA tie in obligatory coverage clause (however thats worked out) of this comp to their big TV deals? FAI did it for years where RTE had to show so many live LOI games etc as part of the deal covering the national team. Be very easy to compel RTE/Sky etc to show a set no of games


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    #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    Surely the could GAA tie in obligatory coverage clause (however thats worked out) of this comp to their big TV deals? FAI did it for years where RTE had to show so many live LOI games etc as part of the deal covering the national team. Be very easy to compel RTE/Sky etc to show a set no of games

    The coverage has long been a mess of pandering to whatever RTÉ want. If they don’t want it they won’t be showing it.


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    #40
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,888 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    The coverage has long been a mess of pandering to whatever RTÉ want. If they don’t want it they won’t be showing it.

    Make it part of the next deal, RTE will have little choice


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    #41
    mitchelsontour
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭mitchelsontour


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    Make it part of the next deal, RTE will have little choice

    Feck RTE give it to TG4 they are the only ones who truly cover the GAA


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    #42
    Big Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 8,967 ✭✭✭Big Ears


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    Tell me how much media coverage are Offaly footballers getting in the Sam Mcguire right now cause from what I can see unless ye are playing Dublin the country or media couldn't give a toss about ye.
    That's not a dig at Offaly it's the same for us in Limerick and half the counties in the championship. 2 mins at the arse end of the Sunday Game and a paragraph in the national papers. They are already neglected as are all teams in all sports that are not winning

    I'm not actually from Offaly myself, I'm from Tipp and just trying to give a view of how some players in weaker counties feel.

    I'm in favour of a secondary competition myself, however I feel it deserves to have respect and an appropriate level of coverage.
    I do think it's a genuine concern that RTE may not want to show this competition at all or only show the final.

    While it's true that the Joe McDonagh does get more coverage than the B All-Ireland used to (although that did mostly exist in a time when only a handful of games were shown on TV in total), the fact they put the 2019 final on at the same time as the Munster final showed a severe lack of respect.

    Were similar to happen in this new second tier football competition, interest will plummet among the public at large and you'll probably see an increased drop off from players wanting to play Inter-County, even compared to where we are now !


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    #43
    Lost Ormond
    Registered Users Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Big Ears wrote: »
    I'm not actually from Offaly myself, I'm from Tipp and just trying to give a view of how some players in weaker counties feel.

    I'm in favour of a secondary competition myself, however I feel it deserves to have respect and an appropriate level of coverage.
    I do think it's a genuine concern that RTE may not want to show this competition at all or only show the final.

    While it's true that the Joe McDonagh does get more coverage than the B All-Ireland used to (although that did mostly exist in a time when only a handful of games were shown on TV in total), the fact they put the 2019 final on at the same time as the Munster final showed a severe lack of respect.

    Were similar to happen in this new second tier football competition, interest will plummet among the public at large and you'll probably see an increased drop off from players wanting to play Inter-County, even compared to where we are now !

    Except Hurling is very different to football in that many of the so called weaker counties havent ever or competed in long time in top level of competition. A secondary competition with proper structures and given proper media coverage would certainly not see interest drop off.
    What would you see as appropriate level of coverage?


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    #44
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,587 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Big Ears wrote: »
    I'm not actually from Offaly myself, I'm from Tipp and just trying to give a view of how some players in weaker counties feel.

    I'm in favour of a secondary competition myself, however I feel it deserves to have respect and an appropriate level of coverage.
    I do think it's a genuine concern that RTE may not want to show this competition at all or only show the final.

    While it's true that the Joe McDonagh does get more coverage than the B All-Ireland used to (although that did mostly exist in a time when only a handful of games were shown on TV in total), the fact they put the 2019 final on at the same time as the Munster final showed a severe lack of respect.

    Were similar to happen in this new second tier football competition, interest will plummet among the public at large and you'll probably see an increased drop off from players wanting to play Inter-County, even compared to where we are now !

    Interest will not plummet because interest will never exist. It will never be anything more than a tournament that people have a quick glance at the results on the paper/web and maybe watch the final.

    If your expectation is that having Limerick v Wicklow on RTE will get loads of people watching if it's on a good time and advertised you are doomed to be disappointed. Very few watch games outside their own or the big teams


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    #45
    Big Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 8,967 ✭✭✭Big Ears


    Lost Ormond wrote: »
    Except Hurling is very different to football in that many of the so called weaker counties havent ever or competed in long time in top level of competition. A secondary competition with proper structures and given proper media coverage would certainly not see interest drop off.
    What would you see as appropriate level of coverage?

    If we're working off the assumption of straight knockout last 16:

    2+ Live games from round of 16
    2-3 Live games from Quarter-Finals
    Both Semi-Finals and Final
    Semi-Finals and Finals not played at the same time as games in the tiers above.
    30%+ of the coverage in the Saturday/Sunday Game highlights Show.

    I'm not necessarily saying that those games have to be RTE either, they could be TG4/Sky/Virgin Media etc, but at least ensure a good amount of them are televised.


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    #46
    SheepsClothing
    Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭SheepsClothing


    If a B Championship is ever going to work, a few conditions are going to have to met:

    1. The B championship should be the main competition that the teams play in. As it stands, you have to lose your way into the B championship, devaluing the competition before it's even begun.

    2. In a tiered championship format, there needs to be promotion and relegation between the tiers in order to create investment for the teams at the bottom of the A championship and at the top of the B championship.

    3. There needs to be significant tv coverage. If players know that their games are going to be broadcast to a national audience, they will care. With the next TV deal coming up, one B championship game a week needs to be tied to the rights of the biggest games. Give TG4 rights to broadcast a further game.

    Kieran Donaghy gave a great pitch for a tiered football championship a couple of years ago on off the ball: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4bog6LKImg


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    #47
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,587 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    SheepsClothing wrote: »
    If a B Championship is ever going to work, a few conditions are going to have to met:

    1. The B championship should be the main competition that the teams play in. As it stands, you have to lose your way into the B championship, devaluing the competition before it's even begun.

    2. In a tiered championship format, there needs to be promotion and relegation between the tiers in order to create investment for the teams at the bottom of the A championship and at the top of the B championship.

    3. There needs to be significant tv coverage. If players know that their games are going to be broadcast to a national audience, they will care. With the next TV deal coming up, one B championship game a week needs to be tied to the rights of the biggest games. Give TG4 rights to broadcast a further game.

    Kieran Donaghy gave a great pitch for a tiered football championship a couple of years ago on off the ball: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4bog6LKImg

    Completely agree with all 3.
    TG4 will do a better job than RTE who won't be interested in most of the ties. Also GAA could just stream non televised ones free online


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    #48
    ShyMets
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭ShyMets


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    Completely agree with all 3.
    TG4 will do a better job than RTE who won't be interested in most of the ties. Also GAA could just stream non televised ones free online

    I've no doubt that TG4 would do a better job. But would they get the audience. The commentary solely in Irish tends to put some people off.

    Maybe they could provide an English option


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    #49
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,587 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    ShyMets wrote: »
    I've no doubt that TG4 would do a better job. But would they get the audience. The commentary solely in Irish tends to put some people off.

    Maybe they could provide an English option

    TG4 will put the effort in and show the games RTE won't. It's a small tournament and won't ever be any bigger and I'm fine with that. I'll follow Limerick no matter what the structure but I honestly don't think there is any system that will have many joining me

    The idea that "putting stuff on RTE and they will come" is 1980s thinking. People have loads of choice and won't watch Waterford v Leitrim when they can see Man Utd on their phone at the same time


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    #50
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    SheepsClothing wrote: »
    If a B Championship is ever going to work, a few conditions are going to have to met:

    1. The B championship should be the main competition that the teams play in. As it stands, you have to lose your way into the B championship, devaluing the competition before it's even begun.

    2. In a tiered championship format, there needs to be promotion and relegation between the tiers in order to create investment for the teams at the bottom of the A championship and at the top of the B championship.

    3. There needs to be significant tv coverage. If players know that their games are going to be broadcast to a national audience, they will care. With the next TV deal coming up, one B championship game a week needs to be tied to the rights of the biggest games. Give TG4 rights to broadcast a further game.

    Kieran Donaghy gave a great pitch for a tiered football championship a couple of years ago on off the ball: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4bog6LKImg

    Fully agree.
    You should have to earn the right to play in the Sam Maguire Cup competition


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    #51
    recyclebin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    SheepsClothing wrote: »
    If a B Championship is ever going to work, a few conditions are going to have to met:

    1. The B championship should be the main competition that the teams play in. As it stands, you have to lose your way into the B championship, devaluing the competition before it's even begun.

    2. In a tiered championship format, there needs to be promotion and relegation between the tiers in order to create investment for the teams at the bottom of the A championship and at the top of the B championship.

    3. There needs to be significant tv coverage. If players know that their games are going to be broadcast to a national audience, they will care. With the next TV deal coming up, one B championship game a week needs to be tied to the rights of the biggest games. Give TG4 rights to broadcast a further game.

    Kieran Donaghy gave a great pitch for a tiered football championship a couple of years ago on off the ball: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4bog6LKImg

    That proposal would be the most logical thing to do, but of course the GAA don't do logical. Just look at their provincial proposal where you can lose a game in your own province and then be put into another province and have another go!

    I would make the first year of A and B championships based on the league and then after that the league and championship go back to being two totally independent competitions. i.e. just like every single county club championship in the country. If the format has worked for club for as long as I can remember then it can work for county too.


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    #52
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,587 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    recyclebin wrote: »
    That proposal would be the most logical thing to do, but of course the GAA don't do logical. Just look at their provincial proposal where you can lose a game in your own province and then be put into another province and have another go!

    I would make the first year of A and B championships based on the league and then after that the league and championship go back to being two totally independent competitions. i.e. just like every single county club championship in the country. If the format has worked for club for as long as I can remember then it can work for county too.

    What's the provincial proposal?
    I hadn't seen that one yet
    Edit: found it


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    #53
    Big Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 8,967 ✭✭✭Big Ears


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    The idea that "putting stuff on RTE and they will come" is 1980s thinking. People have loads of choice and won't watch Waterford v Leitrim when they can see Man Utd on their phone at the same time

    I find it interesting that anytime somebody has mentioned potential fixtures this tournament will hold it's been Limerick Vs Wicklow or (like yours above), Waterford Vs Leitrim, teams we associate with division 4.
    Sure enough they'll be in there, but the reality is, any team outside of the top 7 from last years Division 1 is only 1-2 bad seasons from finding themself in division 3 or below.

    Cork were in there this year, Tipperary were also there and got themselves in the position of fighting relegation on the last day. Cavan were relegated to division 3 for this year. I know all 3 were provincial finalists and there is the exception of provincial finalists staying in the Sam Maguire, but my point is it's not just the bottom few counties that will be in this.

    I nearly get the sense from some people that this competition doesn't deserve any attention because "they're only **** teams anyway, and they can get themself in the Sam Maguire of they want coverage", but over the space of a few years the majority of teams in the country will have found themselves playing Tailteann Cup at some point.
    For that reason I hope this gets proper respect and not just a slightly larger Tommy Murphy Cup


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    #54
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,587 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Big Ears wrote: »
    I find it interesting that anytime somebody has mentioned potential fixtures this tournament will hold it's been Limerick Vs Wicklow or (like yours above), Waterford Vs Leitrim, teams we associate with division 4.
    Sure enough they'll be in there, but the reality is, any team outside of the top 7 from last years Division 1 is only 1-2 bad seasons from finding themself in division 3 or below.

    Cork were in there this year, Tipperary were also there and got themselves in the position of fighting relegation on the last day. Cavan were relegated to division 3 for this year. I know all 3 were provincial finalists and there is the exception of provincial finalists staying in the Sam Maguire, but my point is it's not just the bottom few counties that will be in this.

    I nearly get the sense from some people that this competition doesn't deserve any attention because "they're only **** teams anyway, and they can get themself in the Sam Maguire of they want coverage", but over the space of a few years the majority of teams in the country will have found themselves playing Tailteann Cup at some point.
    For that reason I hope this gets proper respect and not just a slightly larger Tommy Murphy Cup

    No I'm not saying it doesn't deserve attention I'm just being realistic. Only die hards like ourselves will care about anything other than the top teams and every sport is the same. I don't base respect on whether or not the masses are interested and I don't think any amount of coverage will force people to watch it

    As for this: "they're only **** teams anyway, and they can get themself in the Sam Maguire of they want coverage" I'm a Limerick football fan and I would never call them ****


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    #55
    Big Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 8,967 ✭✭✭Big Ears


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    No I'm not saying it doesn't deserve attention I'm just being realistic. Only die hards like ourselves will care about anything other than the top teams and every sport is the same. I don't base respect on whether or not the masses are interested and I don't think any amount of coverage will force people to watch it

    As for this: "they're only **** teams anyway, and they can get themself in the Sam Maguire of they want coverage" I'm a Limerick football fan and I would never call them ****

    Apologies if that quote seemed like it was directed at you, it wasn't but more just lamenting an attitude held by some (unfortunately too many).

    Some of the proposals (which will be voted on later in the year at a Special Congress), are that the Tailteann Cup winner will gain automatic promotion to the division above, or else saved from relegation if they're one of the bottom two teams in Division 3.

    I know that's the opposite of what one of the posters above wants in terms of connection between league and Championship, but it is something which would increase the prestige and allure of winning the competition.
    IMO if any teams move up to the Sam Maguire through making a provincial final, they should be replaced by the lowest Division 2 teams that are scheduled to be part of the Sam Maguire.

    One of the proposals also stated that New Year should be part of the Tailteann Cup. Congress voted at the weekend to put them into a new All-Ireland Junior Championship instead (alongside Kilkenny and the finalists of the All-Britain Championship).
    At least I'm presuming instead, they'll hardly be part of both.


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    #56
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    TG4 will put the effort in and show the games RTE won't. It's a small tournament and won't ever be any bigger and I'm fine with that. I'll follow Limerick no matter what the structure but I honestly don't think there is any system that will have many joining me

    The idea that "putting stuff on RTE and they will come" is 1980s thinking. People have loads of choice and won't watch Waterford v Leitrim when they can see Man Utd on their phone at the same time

    Pretty old fashioned thinking alright. People have this idea that families are still like the Simpsons, plonking down in front of the TV together for hours on end flicking through a few channels to see what's on. The theory goes that putting it on RTÉ will oblige people to watch it since they've little else to entertain them.

    Claims that we need X competition on RTÉ to inspire the kids make little sense too when you consider young people are watching less and less television and have more diversions and selection of entertainment than ever before. It's been a while since I could be called young, but I really struggle to picture any child dropping what they're doing in order to watch Cavan Vs. Warwickshire in the Lory Meagher cup just because it's on RTÉ.


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