Gaa Congress 2021

Big Ears

So this is taking place today.

A lot of motions have been passed which make substantial changes to the game.

Some of the Motions adopted so far:
Penalty for cynically dragging a player down inside the 20 metre arc (applies to both codes).
In hurling this will also result in a sin bin.

A restriction in Senior and Intermediate Championships to a maximum of 16 clubs at a grade.
I've no idea how this applies to counties with Senior A, Senior B etc, whether they can have 16 in each or just in total.

"Split Season" adopted. This isn't what most people will think it is. It's adopting the Gaa Task Force's idea of a split season rather than what happened last year.
Basically Inter-County League will be Feb-March, then Club league starts, Inter-County Championship will run May to end of July. Club Championship will run from August onwards.
Many clubs will still come back training in January, so we'll be seeing club teams playing January to October/November for as long as this lasts.
One of the Gaa Task Force's reasons for this is players would have nothing to do if the club season finished sooner.........I think they're a little out of touch there.


Other motions include making it a foul to wave arms/hurl during kickouts/free/puckouts and also a concussion sub.

Enquiring

Big Ears wrote: »

So this is taking place today.

A lot of motions have been passed which make substantial changes to the game.

Some of the Motions adopted so far:
Penalty for cynically dragging a player down inside the 20 metre arc (applies to both codes).
In hurling this will also result in a sin bin.

A restriction in Senior and Intermediate Championships to a maximum of 16 clubs at a grade.
I've no idea how this applies to counties with Senior A, Senior B etc, whether they can have 16 in each or just in total.

"Split Season" adopted. This isn't what most people will think it is. It's adopting the Gaa Task Force's idea of a split season rather than what happened last year.
Basically Inter-County League will be Feb-March, then Club league starts, Inter-County Championship will run May to end of July. Club Championship will run from August onwards.
Many clubs will still come back training in January, so we'll be seeing club teams playing January to October/November for as long as this lasts.
One of the Gaa Task Force's reasons for this is players would have nothing to do if the club season finished sooner.........I think they're a little out of touch there.


Other motions include making it a foul to wave arms/hurl during kickouts/free/puckouts and also a concussion sub.

Nothing too major came out of congress. It'll be interesting to see if the sin bin is effective. Comments from the financial director in relation to limiting costs, panels and training sessions for inter county squads is to be welcomed. The main thing is we move on from the previous president and we welcome Larry McCarthy on board.

ArielAtom

I’ve been busy all day. How did John Connellans motion go? Thank you to John Horan, great presidency, welcome Larry, looking forward to you good leadership.

ArielAtom

ArielAtom wrote: »

I’ve been busy all day. How did John Connellans motion go? Thank you to John Horan, great presidency, welcome Larry, looking forward to you good leadership.

Connellans is for 2022 he was saying on TGH the other day.

ArielAtom

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Connellans is for 2022 he was saying on TGH the other day.

Cheers, obviously wants to be prepared.

Hulk Hands

Big Ears wrote: »

So this is taking place today.

A lot of motions have been passed which make substantial changes to the game.

Some of the Motions adopted so far:
Penalty for cynically dragging a player down inside the 20 metre arc (applies to both codes).
In hurling this will also result in a sin bin.

May forever be associated with Mayo's Eoghan McLaughlin in the same way the black card is with Sean Cavanagh. The game saving slide at the end of the Connacht final was certainly the straw that broke the camel's back. Good addition to finally punish that cheating properly. Has been occurring more and more in hurling also

Fouling isn’t cheating. There just wasn’t an appropriate punishment for such fouls before.

MfMan

Is the split-season just for this year or on trial for a couple of seasons? Horrible idea; inter-county is the big league, keeps people occupied and interested all summer long. For all the kerfuffle about pandering to the club players, nobody bar the diehard supporters go to many of the games. Why do they have to go and break something that was working very well?

Lost Ormond

MfMan wrote: »

Is the split-season just for this year or on trial for a couple of seasons? Horrible idea; inter-county is the big league, keeps people occupied and interested all summer long. For all the kerfuffle about pandering to the club players, nobody bar the diehard supporters go to many of the games. Why do they have to go and break something that was working very well?

A split season shouldnt be needed but you cant really believe the current set up of how season is structured is working very well.
And saying things like nobody bar diehards attend many club games is completely false.

MfMan

MfMan wrote: »

Is the split-season just for this year or on trial for a couple of seasons? Horrible idea; inter-county is the big league, keeps people occupied and interested all summer long. For all the kerfuffle about pandering to the club players, nobody bar the diehard supporters go to many of the games. Why do they have to go and break something that was working very well?

I like that they’re still going with what the association is really about and that it isn’t all about the sunshiners in Croke Park. The club is a massive thing in the whole make up of the GAA.

MfMan

Lost Ormond wrote: »

A split season shouldnt be needed but you cant really believe the current set up of how season is structured is working very well.
And saying things like nobody bar diehards attend many club games is completely false.

It's completely true. My own club, (separate for hurling and football), you could name the people you're going to meet at the round-robin championship matches every day. It's only the later knockout stages that attract any kind of crowds. One of the great attractions of inter-county is that it stretches out before you for the entire summer, and thus shortens the long run into winter. For a good 8 months of the year, from the end of July, there's now going to be a desert for the GAA, giving other sports a golden opportunity to step in and nick players and the spotlight from the gaelic games.

Lost Ormond

MfMan wrote: »

It's completely true. My own club, (separate for hurling and football), you could name the people you're going to meet at the round-robin championship matches every day. It's only the later knockout stages that attract any kind of crowds. One of the great attractions of inter-county is that it stretches out before you for the entire summer, and thus shortens the long run into winter. For a good 8 months of the year, from the end of July, there's now going to be a desert for the GAA, giving other sports a golden opportunity to step in and nick players and the spotlight from the gaelic games.

Numbers attending club games dont back that up. What are you defining as any kind of crowd anyway?
That inter county is as long as it is and holding all club championships up as a result is putting the needs of 1% above the 99% which isnt right.

beggars_bush

ArielAtom wrote: »

I’ve been busy all day. How did John Connellans motion go? Thank you to John Horan, great presidency, welcome Larry, looking forward to you good leadership.

John Horan has been a terrible president

Not one person i know in the GAA has a positive word to say about him

ArielAtom

beggars_bush wrote: »

John Horan has been a terrible president

Not one person i know in the GAA has a positive word to say about him

Your opinion. I think he has been excellent. So do people I have spoken to. I’m not getting into a debate. I was merely thanking him on his last day and welcoming our new president.

breezy1985

I agree with the split season but I would like the inter county to be just a little bit longer it'll be sad to have it all wrapped up by July. The club game is great but following your club doesn't have that same mad energy of seeing the games debates all over TV, radio, loads of pages on all the papers and down every pub

Coillte_Bhoy

MfMan wrote: »

It's completely true. My own club, (separate for hurling and football), you could name the people you're going to meet at the round-robin championship matches every day. It's only the later knockout stages that attract any kind of crowds. One of the great attractions of inter-county is that it stretches out before you for the entire summer, and thus shortens the long run into winter. For a good 8 months of the year, from the end of July, there's now going to be a desert for the GAA, giving other sports a golden opportunity to step in and nick players and the spotlight from the gaelic games.

Nick players from where? The club championships will be in full swing

Big Ears

I find it strange that people think this is some sort of big change.
What they've done is brought forward the All-Ireland finals a month by starting Championship slightly sooner.

They've then hijacked the term "Split Season" and adopted it for the change they've made so that people will all initially be for it.
Break it down and how is it a split season at all ?, it's similar to what has been going on for the last few years.

Last year was a split season because the club's finished their Championships first (well some Counties did anyway) and Inter-County started after.

From now on Inter-County starts, then Club, then Inter-County, then club with their likely be a little bit of both in between despite the Gaa's best intentions. Where's the split ?

From a media perspective, increased interest in the club game, including build up shoes can fill the void of Inter-County action later in the year.

The real negative is after a couple of year of running 10 month long seasons back to back, club players will become frustrated and many will go away from the game, only then will we see a backlash against this.

beggars_bush

ArielAtom wrote: »

Your opinion. I think he has been excellent. So do people I have spoken to. I’m not getting into a debate. I was merely thanking him on his last day and welcoming our new president.

Ok.
Dublin centric and forcing a B competition onto counties

Fr D Maugire

I think it's good they are putting something in place, but tend to agree that end of July is too early for AI finals. Maybe if it was down to last 4 at that stage, majority of counties should be getting through their club championships. Personally I would have semi-finals first week of August and finals start of September.

I think part of the issue is that August may be considered traditional holiday time for many people so not always a lot of club action that month, at least in my County.

beggars_bush

beggars_bush wrote: »

Ok.
Dublin centric and forcing a B competition onto counties

Not really forced. If they perform then they won't have to play in it.

breezy1985

Can club championships start early if a team is knocked out by the end of May ?

beggars_bush

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Not really forced. If they perform then they won't have to play in it.

That's fine coming from Division 1 counties

beggars_bush

beggars_bush wrote: »

That's fine coming from Division 1 counties

And 2. And 3 or 4 that get to a provincial final. Or they could just get themselves promoted.

Nobody has to play in the B for long if they don't want to.

dobman88

breezy1985 wrote: »

Can club championships start early if a team is knocked out by the end of May ?

Yeah, it will be same as always. When your county is out of the AIC, club championship will start probably 2 or 3 weeks later to give the county lads a little break and some time training with the club.

breezy1985

beggars_bush wrote: »

That's fine coming from Division 1 counties

As long as the players but into it I am happy to support the new cup.

Much rather see Limerick win the div 2 cup than the inevitable back door loss

Big Ears

breezy1985 wrote: »

As long as the players but into it I am happy to support the new cup.

Much rather see Limerick win the div 2 cup than the inevitable back door loss

The biggest factor imo will be how the media treat it.
I spoke to a couple of Offaly football players who were dead against it and cited how the hurling competitions below the Liam McCarthy are treated.

If it's given proper respect and coverage that could be a different story.

breezy1985

Big Ears wrote: »

The biggest factor imo will be how the media treat it.
I spoke to a couple of Offaly football players who were dead against it and cited how the hurling competitions below the Liam McCarthy are treated.

If it's given proper respect and coverage that could be a different story.

Different sport. The hurling below Liam is treated way way better than it was before the new cups. Despite what the crybabies say those cups have been a huge success for counties most people didnt even know had hurling teams before

beggars_bush

breezy1985 wrote: »

Different sport. The hurling below Liam is treated way way better than it was before the new cups. Despite what the crybabies say those cups have been a huge success for counties most people didnt even know had hurling teams before

Ok.
But are you from one of those counties?
Why were the Christy Ring finals etc moved from the semi finals of the McCarthy Cup?

The joint captains thing is one of the stupidest things they’ve done in years. Who was bothered enough by that to bring it to congress?

breezy1985

beggars_bush wrote: »

Ok.
But are you from one of those counties?
Why were the Christy Ring finals etc moved from the semi finals of the McCarthy Cup?

When should the Christy Ring finals be ?

How was it better before the new cups ?

dobman88

Big Ears wrote: »

The biggest factor imo will be how the media treat it.
I spoke to a couple of Offaly football players who were dead against it and cited how the hurling competitions below the Liam McCarthy are treated.

If it's given proper respect and coverage that could be a different story.

So the Offaly footballers you spoke to are only interested in playing if they get food coverage? Maybe that attitude might be contributing to them being a bit shìte.

Wonder are they making any demands for junior teams in Offaly county championship to be put into the senior championship?

breezy1985

dobman88 wrote: »

So the Offaly footballers you spoke to are only interested in playing if they get food coverage? Maybe that attitude might be contributing to them being a bit shìte.

Wonder are they making any demands for junior teams in Offaly county championship to be put into the senior championship?

Sure Offalys biggest problem with the hurling is they don't get an automatic right to be in the Liam McCarthy taking batins every year cause they were good 25 years ago

Big Ears

dobman88 wrote: »

So the Offaly footballers you spoke to are only interested in playing if they get food coverage? Maybe that attitude might be contributing to them being a bit shìte.

Wonder are they making any demands for junior teams in Offaly county championship to be put into the senior championship?

No these lads will probably slog it out year after year giving everything they have for as long as they're on the County panel.....as they've done before.
They'd just prefer things the way they are, if a new secondary competition is going to be completely neglected by the media.......which tbf, there is every chance of.

Funny you should ask that, as one of them is quite keen on a parish Championship in Offaly (along with probably most football supporters in the County), which would facilitate top Junior players playing at a Senior level. The logistics of fitting it in with hurling is probably one of the main issues.

But by all means continue slagging the attitude of men you know nothing about.

dobman88

Big Ears wrote: »

No these lads will probably slog it out year after year giving everything they have for as long as they're on the County panel.....as they've done before.
They'd just prefer things the way they are, if a new secondary competition is going to be completely neglected by the media.......which tbf, there is every chance of.

Funny you should ask that, as one of them is quite keen on a parish Championship in Offaly (along with probably most football supporters in the County), which would facilitate top Junior players playing at a Senior level. The logistics of fitting it in with hurling is probably one of the main issues.

But by all means continue slagging the attitude of men you know nothing about.

So theyd rather play away with almost zero chance of winning anything bar a league, maybe. Instead of playing in an all Ireland competition at a level they can be competitive in.

Well that's a completely different thing to what I posted. That's not a junior team jumping into the senior championship. That's a "best of the rest" district side playing senior. Kerry have the same set up where districts, like current county champions East Kerry, play in the senior county championship. It has given lads like David Clifford exposure to top level football. His own club is a junior club that plays in the club championship.

You're the one that brought up their defeatist attitude.

Say Your Number

If I was on the panel of a team taking part in the second tier competition, I don't think I'd bother my arse with it, no one gave a sh1te about the Tommy Murphy cup, what is the point of introducing virtually the same thing again.

dobman88

Say Your Number wrote: »

If I was on the panel of a team taking part in the second tier competition, I don't think I'd bother my arse with it, no one gave a sh1te about the Tommy Murphy cup, what is the point of introducing virtually the same thing again.

Yeah, sure why bother your arse playing for your county in a competition that you have a genuine chance of winning to get yourself an all Ireland medal :pac:

I can guarantee you the Antrim hurlers were delighted with their all Ireland while the Kerry lads they beat were completely gutted. Just because you might not care, I guarantee you players do.

breezy1985

Big Ears wrote: »

No these lads will probably slog it out year after year giving everything they have for as long as they're on the County panel.....as they've done before.
They'd just prefer things the way they are, if a new secondary competition is going to be completely neglected by the media.......which tbf, there is every chance of.

Tell me how much media coverage are Offaly footballers getting in the Sam Mcguire right now cause from what I can see unless ye are playing Dublin the country or media couldn't give a toss about ye.
That's not a dig at Offaly it's the same for us in Limerick and half the counties in the championship. 2 mins at the arse end of the Sunday Game and a paragraph in the national papers. They are already neglected as are all teams in all sports that are not winning

Coillte_Bhoy

Surely the could GAA tie in obligatory coverage clause (however thats worked out) of this comp to their big TV deals? FAI did it for years where RTE had to show so many live LOI games etc as part of the deal covering the national team. Be very easy to compel RTE/Sky etc to show a set no of games

Coillte_Bhoy

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Surely the could GAA tie in obligatory coverage clause (however thats worked out) of this comp to their big TV deals? FAI did it for years where RTE had to show so many live LOI games etc as part of the deal covering the national team. Be very easy to compel RTE/Sky etc to show a set no of games

The coverage has long been a mess of pandering to whatever RTÉ want. If they don’t want it they won’t be showing it.

Coillte_Bhoy

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

The coverage has long been a mess of pandering to whatever RTÉ want. If they don’t want it they won’t be showing it.

Make it part of the next deal, RTE will have little choice

mitchelsontour

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Make it part of the next deal, RTE will have little choice

Feck RTE give it to TG4 they are the only ones who truly cover the GAA

Big Ears

breezy1985 wrote: »

Tell me how much media coverage are Offaly footballers getting in the Sam Mcguire right now cause from what I can see unless ye are playing Dublin the country or media couldn't give a toss about ye.
That's not a dig at Offaly it's the same for us in Limerick and half the counties in the championship. 2 mins at the arse end of the Sunday Game and a paragraph in the national papers. They are already neglected as are all teams in all sports that are not winning

I'm not actually from Offaly myself, I'm from Tipp and just trying to give a view of how some players in weaker counties feel.

I'm in favour of a secondary competition myself, however I feel it deserves to have respect and an appropriate level of coverage.
I do think it's a genuine concern that RTE may not want to show this competition at all or only show the final.

While it's true that the Joe McDonagh does get more coverage than the B All-Ireland used to (although that did mostly exist in a time when only a handful of games were shown on TV in total), the fact they put the 2019 final on at the same time as the Munster final showed a severe lack of respect.

Were similar to happen in this new second tier football competition, interest will plummet among the public at large and you'll probably see an increased drop off from players wanting to play Inter-County, even compared to where we are now !

Lost Ormond

Big Ears wrote: »

I'm not actually from Offaly myself, I'm from Tipp and just trying to give a view of how some players in weaker counties feel.

I'm in favour of a secondary competition myself, however I feel it deserves to have respect and an appropriate level of coverage.
I do think it's a genuine concern that RTE may not want to show this competition at all or only show the final.

While it's true that the Joe McDonagh does get more coverage than the B All-Ireland used to (although that did mostly exist in a time when only a handful of games were shown on TV in total), the fact they put the 2019 final on at the same time as the Munster final showed a severe lack of respect.

Were similar to happen in this new second tier football competition, interest will plummet among the public at large and you'll probably see an increased drop off from players wanting to play Inter-County, even compared to where we are now !

Except Hurling is very different to football in that many of the so called weaker counties havent ever or competed in long time in top level of competition. A secondary competition with proper structures and given proper media coverage would certainly not see interest drop off.
What would you see as appropriate level of coverage?

breezy1985

Big Ears wrote: »

I'm not actually from Offaly myself, I'm from Tipp and just trying to give a view of how some players in weaker counties feel.

I'm in favour of a secondary competition myself, however I feel it deserves to have respect and an appropriate level of coverage.
I do think it's a genuine concern that RTE may not want to show this competition at all or only show the final.

While it's true that the Joe McDonagh does get more coverage than the B All-Ireland used to (although that did mostly exist in a time when only a handful of games were shown on TV in total), the fact they put the 2019 final on at the same time as the Munster final showed a severe lack of respect.

Were similar to happen in this new second tier football competition, interest will plummet among the public at large and you'll probably see an increased drop off from players wanting to play Inter-County, even compared to where we are now !

Interest will not plummet because interest will never exist. It will never be anything more than a tournament that people have a quick glance at the results on the paper/web and maybe watch the final.

If your expectation is that having Limerick v Wicklow on RTE will get loads of people watching if it's on a good time and advertised you are doomed to be disappointed. Very few watch games outside their own or the big teams

Big Ears

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Except Hurling is very different to football in that many of the so called weaker counties havent ever or competed in long time in top level of competition. A secondary competition with proper structures and given proper media coverage would certainly not see interest drop off.
What would you see as appropriate level of coverage?

If we're working off the assumption of straight knockout last 16:

2+ Live games from round of 16
2-3 Live games from Quarter-Finals
Both Semi-Finals and Final
Semi-Finals and Finals not played at the same time as games in the tiers above.
30%+ of the coverage in the Saturday/Sunday Game highlights Show.

I'm not necessarily saying that those games have to be RTE either, they could be TG4/Sky/Virgin Media etc, but at least ensure a good amount of them are televised.

SheepsClothing

If a B Championship is ever going to work, a few conditions are going to have to met:

1. The B championship should be the main competition that the teams play in. As it stands, you have to lose your way into the B championship, devaluing the competition before it's even begun.

2. In a tiered championship format, there needs to be promotion and relegation between the tiers in order to create investment for the teams at the bottom of the A championship and at the top of the B championship.

3. There needs to be significant tv coverage. If players know that their games are going to be broadcast to a national audience, they will care. With the next TV deal coming up, one B championship game a week needs to be tied to the rights of the biggest games. Give TG4 rights to broadcast a further game.

Kieran Donaghy gave a great pitch for a tiered football championship a couple of years ago on off the ball: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4bog6LKImg

breezy1985

SheepsClothing wrote: »

If a B Championship is ever going to work, a few conditions are going to have to met:

1. The B championship should be the main competition that the teams play in. As it stands, you have to lose your way into the B championship, devaluing the competition before it's even begun.

2. In a tiered championship format, there needs to be promotion and relegation between the tiers in order to create investment for the teams at the bottom of the A championship and at the top of the B championship.

3. There needs to be significant tv coverage. If players know that their games are going to be broadcast to a national audience, they will care. With the next TV deal coming up, one B championship game a week needs to be tied to the rights of the biggest games. Give TG4 rights to broadcast a further game.

Kieran Donaghy gave a great pitch for a tiered football championship a couple of years ago on off the ball: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4bog6LKImg

Completely agree with all 3.
TG4 will do a better job than RTE who won't be interested in most of the ties. Also GAA could just stream non televised ones free online

ShyMets

breezy1985 wrote: »

Completely agree with all 3.
TG4 will do a better job than RTE who won't be interested in most of the ties. Also GAA could just stream non televised ones free online

I've no doubt that TG4 would do a better job. But would they get the audience. The commentary solely in Irish tends to put some people off.

Maybe they could provide an English option

breezy1985

ShyMets wrote: »

I've no doubt that TG4 would do a better job. But would they get the audience. The commentary solely in Irish tends to put some people off.

Maybe they could provide an English option

TG4 will put the effort in and show the games RTE won't. It's a small tournament and won't ever be any bigger and I'm fine with that. I'll follow Limerick no matter what the structure but I honestly don't think there is any system that will have many joining me

The idea that "putting stuff on RTE and they will come" is 1980s thinking. People have loads of choice and won't watch Waterford v Leitrim when they can see Man Utd on their phone at the same time

beggars_bush

SheepsClothing wrote: »

If a B Championship is ever going to work, a few conditions are going to have to met:

1. The B championship should be the main competition that the teams play in. As it stands, you have to lose your way into the B championship, devaluing the competition before it's even begun.

2. In a tiered championship format, there needs to be promotion and relegation between the tiers in order to create investment for the teams at the bottom of the A championship and at the top of the B championship.

3. There needs to be significant tv coverage. If players know that their games are going to be broadcast to a national audience, they will care. With the next TV deal coming up, one B championship game a week needs to be tied to the rights of the biggest games. Give TG4 rights to broadcast a further game.

Kieran Donaghy gave a great pitch for a tiered football championship a couple of years ago on off the ball: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4bog6LKImg

Fully agree.
You should have to earn the right to play in the Sam Maguire Cup competition

recyclebin

SheepsClothing wrote: »

If a B Championship is ever going to work, a few conditions are going to have to met:

1. The B championship should be the main competition that the teams play in. As it stands, you have to lose your way into the B championship, devaluing the competition before it's even begun.

2. In a tiered championship format, there needs to be promotion and relegation between the tiers in order to create investment for the teams at the bottom of the A championship and at the top of the B championship.

3. There needs to be significant tv coverage. If players know that their games are going to be broadcast to a national audience, they will care. With the next TV deal coming up, one B championship game a week needs to be tied to the rights of the biggest games. Give TG4 rights to broadcast a further game.

Kieran Donaghy gave a great pitch for a tiered football championship a couple of years ago on off the ball: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4bog6LKImg

That proposal would be the most logical thing to do, but of course the GAA don't do logical. Just look at their provincial proposal where you can lose a game in your own province and then be put into another province and have another go!

I would make the first year of A and B championships based on the league and then after that the league and championship go back to being two totally independent competitions. i.e. just like every single county club championship in the country. If the format has worked for club for as long as I can remember then it can work for county too.