Gatwick closed (mod note post 1)

plodder · 20-12-2018 11:48am

lawred2 wrote: »

surely a drone being actively controlled roaming around a airport would need a communication system with a slightly better range than wifi?

The point is they don't have to be actively controlled. They can have a flight plan pre-programmed, controlled by passive GPS.

cfuserkildare · 20-12-2018 11:51am

Am I the only person here that thinks it Very suspicious that someone is flying drones over one of the busiest airports in Europe at night?
Are these drones fitted with image intensifying equipment or Night Vision gear?
Seems to me that they are probably mapping the layout of the airport and entrance/exit points for some Highly Dubious reason.

dhaughton99 · 20-12-2018 11:52am

plodder wrote: »

The point is they don't have to be actively controlled. They can have a flight plan pre-programmed, controlled by passive GPS.

Good point. But surely it can be tracked to where it lands to get its battery replaced? What’s the flying time? 15 mins? Could localized radar pick up something some small?

zell12 · 20-12-2018 11:53am

"A form of economic terrorism"
£m's of disruption

rameire · 20-12-2018 11:54am

just wondering where UAE15 A380 will head to, Mainland Europe or does LHR have space for a waiting A380.

MarkHenderson · 20-12-2018 11:55am

Has Sky News blamed the Russians yet.

robinph · 20-12-2018 11:57am

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Am I the only person here that thinks it Very suspicious that someone is flying drones over one of the busiest airports in Europe at night?
Are these drones fitted with image intensifying equipment or Night Vision gear?
Seems to me that they are probably mapping the layout of the airport and entrance/exit points for some Highly Dubious reason.

What more do you need mapping that isn't already out there?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.1585/-0.1752

Dardania · 20-12-2018 11:59am

rameire wrote: »

just wondering where UAE15 A380 will head to, Mainland Europe or does LHR have space for a waiting A380.

BHX?

Hotblack Desiato · 20-12-2018 12:00pm

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Seems to me that they are probably mapping the layout of the airport and entrance/exit points for some Highly Dubious reason.

Why, is their Google Earth broken?

plodder · 20-12-2018 12:00pm

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Am I the only person here that thinks it Very suspicious that someone is flying drones over one of the busiest airports in Europe at night?
Are these drones fitted with image intensifying equipment or Night Vision gear?
Seems to me that they are probably mapping the layout of the airport and entrance/exit points for some Highly Dubious reason.

What information could they obtain that isn't already available off google maps?

I think the aim is just disruption plain and simple. From the mindless kind that aims laser pointers at landing aircraft just for the hell of it, to something more sinister at a state level (which could include the Russians). I'd say nobody knows which.

Dardania · 20-12-2018 12:02pm

I wonder are there any emails sent to Gatwick requesting bitcoin?!

Could be just an extortion scheme...

lawred2 · 20-12-2018 12:02pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Why, is their Google Earth broken?

aren't airports grayed out on google earth?

maybe that's something else

dhaughton99 · 20-12-2018 12:04pm

Was there not a Xmas airport bomb threat a few years ago that shutdown an airport or am I thinking of Die Hard 2?

ectoraige · 20-12-2018 12:04pm

I'm very surprised it has lasted this long. A single-shot way to take down a drone is to just fly another drone into it. The cost of replacing a drone or two is nothing compared to the cost of the disruption. The police must really be prioritising finding the culprits

nim1bdeh38l2cw · 20-12-2018 12:05pm

lawred2 wrote: »

aren't airports grayed out on google earth?

maybe that's something else

No they're not.

robinph · 20-12-2018 12:05pm

mikegermany wrote: »

They're not big and heavy to transport

They lock onto the target ,you don't fire off multiple missiles

Can we at least stick with facts if you're arguing the point

Your initial suggestion that missiles were a bigger threat to airports is wrong for the various reason that have been pointed out. Yes, if they were to launch then the loss of life would be fairly substantial, but the abundance of drones, the easy of purchasing them, the ease of operating them, the relatively minor consequences for operating them near an airport (5 years in prison for a drone, getting shot for using a missile launcher) all mean that the drone is far bigger issue for airports.

Missiles are an issue, but the likely hood of it happening is orders of magnitude less than a drone flying about.

dhaughton99 · 20-12-2018 12:06pm

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Has Sky News blamed the Russians yet.

You’ll have to wait for Kay Burly to turn up. The interns are filling in at the moment.

GBX · 20-12-2018 12:09pm

I get what goes up must come down in relation to a miss from firing a weapon, but there are stories of snipiers hitting targets out in Iraq/Afghanistan ... surely they could take a drone out. Especially if its flying over a closed airfield where if it dropped would not cause any more delays other than cleaning the debris.

lawred2 · 20-12-2018 12:10pm

GBX wrote: »

I get what goes up must come down in relation to a miss from firing a weapon, but there are stories of snipiers hitting targets out in Iraq/Afghanistan ... surely they could take a drone out. Especially if its flying over a closed airfield where if it dropped would not cause any more delays other than cleaning the debris.

drone would surely be moving too fast even for a sniper

jay48 · 20-12-2018 12:13pm

ectoraige wrote: »

I'm very surprised it has lasted this long. A single-shot way to take down a drone is to just fly another drone into it. The cost of replacing a drone or two is nothing compared to the cost of the disruption. The police must really be prioritising finding the culprits

Was thinking the same, fly another drone into it, sweep up, job done.

plodder · 20-12-2018 12:14pm

ectoraige wrote: »

I'm very surprised it has lasted this long. A single-shot way to take down a drone is to just fly another drone into it. The cost of replacing a drone or two is nothing compared to the cost of the disruption. The police must really be prioritising finding the culprits

Just thinking aloud, but it could turn out that lasers aren't viable in the medium term and they have to do something like the above. I doubt they can do that currently, because it will have to be automated (night time) and I think we would know about it if such technology was deployed in airports currently. So, there isn't a whole lot else the police can do today. But, I can imagine interesting R&D being done on drone dog-fighting basically, and the use of swarms of small drones maybe.

lawred2 · 20-12-2018 12:15pm

Is it still closed?

realdanbreen · 20-12-2018 12:15pm

lawred2 wrote: »

drone would surely be moving too fast even for a sniper

This sounds like a job for 'my brother Sylvest..'

Kevski · 20-12-2018 12:16pm

This is a very Wile E. Coyote suggestion but what about sending out another drone with a big net hanging from it and trying to get the other drone tangled up in it...? :pac:

dhaughton99 · 20-12-2018 12:26pm

lawred2 wrote: »

drone would surely be moving too fast even for a sniper

I’m sure that the military have come across this before in the battlefield and have much easier solutions. Directional Signal jammers etc.

I’m putting this down to a different threat against the airport or aircraft and they just don’t want to say.

Dardania · 20-12-2018 12:26pm

Maybe it's not a terrorist or disruptive activity - maybe the poor drone is lost. we should send:
latest?cb=20160901025115

ectoraige · 20-12-2018 12:27pm

Since it is going on so long, my presumption is whoever is doing this has a stock of drones that they are deploying periodically - no point taking one out when another comes along to take it's place a while later, possibly after resuming flight operations.

zell12 · 20-12-2018 12:30pm

DailyMail informs us:

Dardania · 20-12-2018 12:31pm

It's interesting to see FR - every jeep they have seems to be on the east side:
https://www.flightradar24.com/airport/lgw/arrivals

ectoraige · 20-12-2018 12:33pm

Kevski wrote: »

This is a very Wile E. Coyote suggestion but what about sending out another drone with a big net hanging from it and trying to get the other drone tangled up in it...? :pac:

There's numerous systems like this, see Dronecatcher for example. I bet they'll be seeing an uptick in orders after this. I assume though Gatwick (or indeed any of the London area airports) haven't invested in defensive systems like this, hence my thought they'd prefer to have somebody fly another drone into it and deal with the runway FOD.

I guess though until they've found who is doing it, they fear further releases after operations resume.

lawred2 · 20-12-2018 12:34pm

zell12 wrote: »

DailyMail informs us:

I detest that media outlet

plodder · 20-12-2018 12:36pm

ectoraige wrote: »

There's numerous systems like this, see Dronecatcher for example.

How fast do you think the target and the catcher are moving in that clip?

I think the camera taking the video is moving faster.

robinph · 20-12-2018 12:41pm

Dardania wrote: »

It's interesting to see FR - every jeep they have seems to be on the east side:
https://www.flightradar24.com/airport/lgw/arrivals

If you were going to try and land, change batteries and relaunch then in amongst the mayhem of loads of pissed off passengers is probably the best place to hide, it's also the hardest part for the police to be able to get through the traffic to then find you.

Tenzor07 · 20-12-2018 12:53pm

Norwegian 787's in SNN and DUB at the moment on divert...

CountingCrows · 20-12-2018 12:57pm

Sounds like a job for Airwolf

Tenzor07 · 20-12-2018 12:58pm

Another drone spotted in Gatwick, so it's closed now until 6pm.

Another 787 on it's way to DUB now also from LAX.

https://www.flightradar24.com/NRS6YA/1eed5399

dhaughton99 · 20-12-2018 1:03pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Another drone spotted in Gatwick, so it's closed now until 6pm.

Another 787 on it's way to DUB now also...

Where are you seeing that. Sky news says last one spotted at 9.

Mebuntu · 20-12-2018 1:06pm

Whoever is causing such chaos so easily will now be confident to commence operations at Heathrow et al and do even more damage. Could eventually be another 9/11 aftermath situation with all major UK airports closed indefinitely.

robinph · 20-12-2018 1:07pm

Not seen further mention of drones being seen since about 9am, but Gatwick have stated they remain closed at 11:45:

https://twitter.com/Gatwick_Airport/status/1075721134765686784?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1075721134765686784&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fchaos-at-gatwick-after-drone-sightings-force-runway-closure-11586557

PCX · 20-12-2018 1:08pm

It could be an environmental protest group or a disgruntled local resident.

Both groups have been opposing the addition of a second runway and increasing numbers of flights using the airport.

Tenzor07 · 20-12-2018 1:14pm

dhaughton99 wrote: »

Where are you seeing that. Sky news says last one spotted at 9.

Not on the News channels yet afaik

robinph · 20-12-2018 1:16pm

If it's a local protest group then they will presumably be well able to hide from the authorities, but they also have to realise that whatever it is they are complaining about disturbing their peace at home is all irrelevant now as their new home will be significantly less luxurious to what they are used to and with a far less desirable view our of the "window".

AGC · 20-12-2018 1:32pm

They have marksmen ready to go by the look of things

Closed till 16.00

zell12 · 20-12-2018 1:35pm

Closed until 4pm

Tabnabs · 20-12-2018 1:44pm

Lets hope they don't miss!

Du3B8ekWkAAwrA_.jpg:large

Idbatterim · 20-12-2018 2:07pm

can they not get their own and follow the drone? I wonder what the punishment will be if they are caught, unlike this total banana republic, they dont mess around over there...

AndyBoBandy · 20-12-2018 2:10pm

Hearing on Sky News that basically every time everything appears to be clear, and they are preparing to resume flight operations, the drone(s) reappear on the scene!!

Somebody said it earlier, but Economic Terrorism!! The cost of today will most likely be in the 10's of millions, if not more

Mebuntu · 20-12-2018 2:11pm

Two more Ryanair DUB-LGW flights have flown to STN instead. FR112 and FR114. Lucky folk.

seamus · 20-12-2018 2:33pm

As people have said, they've probably been delaying action in the hope that they can track the drones back to the source.

"Economic terrorism" is just a buzzword. This is someone trying to make a deliberate point, but isn't a psychopath, they're not trying to kill anyone.

Maybe they're trying to show people what Gatwick will be like on 30th March if Brexit is allowed to happen

Irish Steve wrote: »

The only thing capable of taking out such a drone will be a very directed Laser style device that will either overload the internal electronics, or cause significant damage to the mechanical parts of the device and render it incapable of continuing to fly, but if such devices are available, they are not being widely talked about, and are certainly not being deployed to the airport operators. Another possible option is to have a directional radio beam that will block GPS signals, but that will only disrupt the navigation of the device, not prevent it from continuing to fly. The problem with disrupting the GPS system to take out a drone is that there are then major problems for aircraft in the area, as they are very likely to also be relying on GPS signals for their navigational accuracy, so for obvious safety reasons, the airspace has to be cleared before a take down system can be used.

Anti-drone drones are really the only feasible option. Any ground defence would be insanely expensive to develop at that accuracy.

Another part of the problem is that drones are cheap in the grand scheme of things. An individual does not have the funds to develop an actual aircraft of their own. But with 20 grand and a bit of technical knowledge, the array of things you could do with a quadcopter is huge.

The technology exists at the moment to develop one that can operate completely autonomously (i.e. giving off no radio signals), does not appear on radar and can travel 150km/h for up to an hour. Thankfully the potential for that drone to actually do anything when it reaches its destination is very limited. But as the price drops, their use for nefarious purposes will increase; not just travel disruption, but surveillance and criminal damage.

Smaller radar-style systems will need to be developed to keep track of drone traffic at lower altitudes in built-up areas.

realdanbreen · 20-12-2018 2:34pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

can they not get their own and follow the drone? I wonder what the punishment will be if they are caught, unlike this total banana republic, they dont mess around over there...

I wouldn't be too quick to paint us as a banana republic compared to our 'betters' across the water. It's 1.30pm now and still not sorted. It is kind of scary when you think that highly weaponised countries like Britain or the USA are unable to deal with situations like these. I mean a few amateur psychos were able to crash a plane right in to the heart (Pentagon) of American security on 9/11.

Gatwick closed (mod note post 1)

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