Article: "Having a kid is probably my biggest life regret: ‘Wife concurs’"

meeeeh · 05-06-2021 1:49pm

Then make it closed forum. The thread is about parenting experiences which childfree people don't have. So what makes someone without kids more qualified to talk about chalengess of parenting than those who have kids.

Maybe the thread 8s in the wrong forum and should be moved to parenting forum.

Edit: the reply was to Rainbowtrout

Edit2: btw when you describe people just by their ability or desire to bread like they are some prised cow you will get responses. You can't hurl insults at people and then complain how unfair it is that the thread attracts all sorts.

R.D. aka MR.D · 05-06-2021 1:53pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Does anyone have a problem with parents coming in and posting about their positive experience? I certainly don't. There has been unhelpful labels thrown about by both sides. Is that not what has got so many heckles raised?

I mean it is an open forum so whatever but it is annoying to see so many patronising comments and the old 'you have no idea' stuff thrown about. What is the response to that? I've no idea what it is like to be a nurse, but when my friend talks about it, i can imagine, sure I truly have no bloody clue but I know I wouldn't be able for it. Parents just seem to dismiss everyone who aren't parents, they won't even entertain the idea that the reason some people choose to be childfree is because they have made the effort to try to understand what it is like to be a parent.

Sure, share postive experiences but I don't think it is right to start telling people they've no idea. That works both ways also...my friends in their 30s with kids have no idea how great it is to be in your 30s without them. I certainly wouldn't be heading into a parenting forum to say that!

Flinty997 · 05-06-2021 2:07pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

though tbf, it's like a theoretical thread (again in the tattoo forum) 'tell us about a tattoo you really regret' being posted in by people declaiming 'i've loads of tattoos and i've never regretted a single one'.
to which the other posters might respond 'well, yes, that's great for you but that's ignoring what the thread is about'.

Poor analogy. It's more like forum for people without tattoos. Then posting a thread about tattoos people regret in it. Which then attracts people with tattoos to reply suggesting ways to work around it.

But then people saying they don't want to hear about workarounds or solutions only bad stories, so they can get affirmation that never having a tattoo was the right choice for them.

In my opinion you shouldn't be focused on negativity like this. Leverage the positivity from the advantages being child free gives.

Flinty997 · 05-06-2021 2:13pm

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

...my friends in their 30s with kids have no idea how great it is to be in your 30s without them...

...If you have kids at 35 you would have experience of both....

.. You child also be separated and not living with your kids or even have lost kids...

fits · 05-06-2021 2:14pm

Haven’t read whole thread.

I honestly believe your brain changes so much after having children it’s almost like becoming a different person. So it’s impossible to predict in advance if you’ll regret having children. But most people don’t in the slightest.

Flinty997 · 05-06-2021 2:22pm

fits wrote: »

Haven’t read whole thread.

I honestly believe your brain changes so much after having children it’s almost like becoming a different person. So it’s impossible to predict in advance if you’ll regret having children. But most people don’t in the slightest.

In fairness some people do not change when they have kids. Many people have experience with siblings or friends children and just know it's not something they want.

There's so many movies and books about this kinda stuff I amazed people are not aware of all varieties of people.

notsoyoungwan · 05-06-2021 2:23pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

...If you have kids at 35 you would have experience of both....

.. You child also be separated and not living with your kids or even have lost kids...

Well, you’ll have experience of what it’s like not to have kids up til age 35. But you’ll have no experience of what it’s like to be planning not to have kids ever and to be living a committedly child-free life. There’s quite a difference between the two.

R.D. aka MR.D · 05-06-2021 2:26pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

...If you have kids at 35 you would have experience of both....

.. You child also be separated and not living with your kids or even have lost kids...

The people I know who are not active in their children's lives or have lost children are not the same as those who have never had children. That is not what I meant.

I would also argue that my friends who had kids in their mid to late 30s were preparing for that for a number of years, they were buying houses and getting ready to ensure their jobs were at a stage that they could comfortably have children. Knowing you will never have kids (in our case certainly) allows us to take career risks, spend money on 'frivolous things' etc. Sure, maybe an oops baby but honestly, I haven't come across anyone who had an oops baby for the first time at this age.

amacca · 05-06-2021 2:27pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Also judging the experience when the kids are young is like judging a marathon after the first 5k.

I don't know a he'll of a lot about child rearing but I do know about marathons. If you're struggling during the first 5k it's unlikely to get better in the remaining 37 in my experience.

But I imagine marathons aren't the best analogy.

fits · 05-06-2021 2:28pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

In fairness some people do not change when they have kids. Many people have experience with siblings or friends children and just know it's not something they want.

There's so many movies and books about this kinda stuff I amazed people are not aware of all varieties of people.

It’s science ( for 50% at least). https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/pregnancy-causes-lasting-changes-in-a-womans-brain/

notsoyoungwan · 05-06-2021 2:29pm

Igotadose wrote: »

I would. Plenty of parenting threads and resources out there. I'd rather be able to discuss childfree issues without parents chiming in.

I second that, tbh. One of the reasons this forum was sought was to get away from the talk about parenting being the default option and the fact that parents chime in everywhere being childfree is discussed. Now it’s infiltrating here too, when really there’s no need for it.

Would people do it in real life? If you stumbled upon a group of people who were all childfree, all happily discussing various aspects of that, and one of them raised an article they had read about parents regretting having kids,,raising it to say to the others “no matter how loud some of them clamour, there ARE some who regret having kids, would people bulldoze in to the conversation pontificating about how transformative the experience is, how life-changing, affirming, utterly wonderful it is etc? And then get annoyed when people point out the conversation wasn’t directed at them? And insist on their right to join the chat?

meeeeh · 05-06-2021 2:45pm

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

And then get annoyed when people point out the conversation wasn’t directed at them? And insist on their right to join the chat?

It doesn't annoy me I just find your reasoning on open forum illogical. That's why I'm happy to ignore your point.

eviltwin · 05-06-2021 2:45pm

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

I think regret experiences are important because there is a narrative pushed that people don't regret kids and the minute you have them you will fall in love with them. It is a counterbalance to that.

In my early/mid 20s, I wasn't as confident in asserting my choice and feeling comfortable that there isn't in fact anything wrong with not wanting kids, these kind of articles helped with expressing myself when so many responses are 'oh but kids are the best, you'd be a great parent, you'll feel differently once you have them'.

An if this was a page for people who are unsure about whether to have kids I'd agree with you but its not. Its preaching to the converted.

The forum sets its stall out quite clearly as childfree by choice, not childfree because of circumstances or childfree because I haven't made up my mind yet.

It was a point I raised at the initial request stage that lots of people would have an interest in this forum for various reasons and this article would have slotted in well there but that's not the route the powers that be took. How and ever that's neither here nor there.

eviltwin · 05-06-2021 2:51pm

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

I second that, tbh. One of the reasons this forum was sought was to get away from the talk about parenting being the default option and the fact that parents chime in everywhere being childfree is discussed. Now it’s infiltrating here too, when really there’s no need for it.

Would people do it in real life? If you stumbled upon a group of people who were all childfree, all happily discussing various aspects of that, and one of them raised an article they had read about parents regretting having kids,,raising it to say to the others “no matter how loud some of them clamour, there ARE some who regret having kids, would people bulldoze in to the conversation pontificating about how transformative the experience is, how life-changing, affirming, utterly wonderful it is etc? And then get annoyed when people point out the conversation wasn’t directed at them? And insist on their right to join the chat?

There is a bit of a difference between a private conversation and an open, online forum.

As far as I know this is not a forum solely reserved for the childfree, anyone can post provided they respect the spirit of the group.

rainbowtrout · 05-06-2021 2:55pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Then make it closed forum. The thread is about parenting experiences which childfree people don't have. So what makes someone without kids more qualified to talk about chalengess of parenting than those who have kids.

Maybe the thread 8s in the wrong forum and should be moved to parenting forum.

Edit: the reply was to Rainbowtrout

Edit2: btw when you describe people just by their ability or desire to bread like they are some prised cow you will get responses. You can't hurl insults at people and then complain how unfair it is that the thread attracts all sorts.

I hope that comment about breeding and prized cows is not aimed at me because I didn't and don't use those words.

The article was about a parent with regrets. Childfree people are constantly told they will regret it if they don't have children and they don't know what they are missing, so from a childfree point of view the article is interesting, because very few parents actually come out and say they regret having children, and many parents believe that having children is the only way forward and that this kind of regret doesn't exist, in the same vein that childfree people don't know what they are missing.

notsoyoungwan · 05-06-2021 2:59pm

meeeeh wrote: »

It doesn't annoy me I just find your reasoning on open forum illogical. That's why I'm happy to ignore your point.

You’re happy to ignore my point but couldn’t resist posting to ehh tell me you’re ignoring my point. But you’re definitely not annoyed. Ok then!

notsoyoungwan · 05-06-2021 3:02pm

eviltwin wrote: »

There is a bit of a difference between a private conversation and an open, online forum.

As far as I know this is not a forum solely reserved for the childfree, anyone can post provided they respect the spirit of the group.

And does coming in insisting that the posters are wrong, that they’re too immature and self-obsessed to have children, not able for the self-sacrifice (they perceive) necessary, that they’re going to regret not having children, that having kids will lead to a better life, count as respecting the spirit of the group, or is it more trampling all over it?

eviltwin · 05-06-2021 3:04pm

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

And does coming in insisting that the posters are wrong, that they’re too immature and self-obsessed to have children, not able for the self-sacrifice (they perceive) necessary, that they’re going to regret not having children, that having kids will lead to a better life, count as respecting the spirit of the group, or is it more trampling all over it?

I agree with that, I've seen some really embarrassing comments from parents in here and its not ok. But it works both ways. You can't have a public forum that is only allowed to be used by a certain cohort of posters, that's not how Boards works and if someone makes a dig at parents for no other reason than they are parents, they what do you expect?

meeeeh · 05-06-2021 3:12pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I hope that comment about breeding and prized cows is not aimed at me because I didn't and don't use those words.

No it was not meant at you at all. My point was that when you (as a general you) call people 'breeders' on a thread that's visible to all and the comment stays it will attract more posters in. I prefer not to be reduced to biological process.

However I honestly believe the topic is such that it will always attract everyone and is in the wrong forum. I don't think any other thread on the forum has similar issues. (I haven't read them but they don't seem to be as 'lively') .

notsoyoungwan · 05-06-2021 3:22pm

eviltwin wrote: »

I agree with that, I've seen some really embarrassing comments from parents in here and its not ok. But it works both ways. You can't have a public forum that is only allowed to be used by a certain cohort of posters, that's not how Boards works and if someone makes a dig at parents for no other reason than they are parents, they what do you expect?

Well, TLL works along those lines, to a degree. It’s not strictly limited to women, it’s not a private forum, but if a man arrived in and started being confrontational and argumentative, it wouldn’t be long before he’d be pulled up on it.

Flinty997 · 05-06-2021 3:57pm

fits wrote: »

It’s science ( for 50% at least). https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/pregnancy-causes-lasting-changes-in-a-womans-brain/

Thats not disagreeing with me. I said some.

Flinty997 · 05-06-2021 4:02pm

amacca wrote: »

I don't know a he'll of a lot about child rearing but I do know about marathons. If you're struggling during the first 5k it's unlikely to get better in the remaining 37 in my experience.

But I imagine marathons aren't the best analogy.

When you learned to drive did it get harder the more experience you had.
Did something get harder the fitter you got?

You can't pick two different things and compare them as if they are the same.

Flinty997 · 05-06-2021 4:08pm

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

And does coming in insisting that the posters are wrong, that they’re too immature and self-obsessed to have children, not able for the self-sacrifice (they perceive) necessary, that they’re going to regret not having children, that having kids will lead to a better life, count as respecting the spirit of the group, or is it more trampling all over it?

That's for a mod to decide and there a report function for that.

The cycling mod shuts down any anti cycling ranting. That's how it works. If you dislike a posters comments, you can ignore them. The ignore function works really well, if someone is triggering you. It cleans up threads wonderfully. Then you can focus on discussing stuff with the people you want to engage with.

Spanish Eyes · 05-06-2021 4:10pm

I get the impression rightly or wrongly, that many parents envy the freedom and financial choices the "childfree by choice" cohort have. Therefore there is often an emotional backlash from (often) harrassed, financially and time strapped parents trying to justify THEIR choice to have kids.

meeeeh · 05-06-2021 4:18pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I get the impression rightly or wrongly, that many parents envy the freedom and financial choices the "childfree by choice" cohort have. Therefore there is often an emotional backlash from (often) harrassed, financially and time strapped parents trying to justify THEIR choice to have kids.

Possibly or maybe we just have opinion on parents having regrets about having kids. There is this wonderful fact that life doesn't stay the same and personally I think it is more important with how you deal with the situation than what the situation is (not counting really traumatic events) I do think complaining that society or partner made me do it is not fair and weak. And it's especially not fair on the kids who had no say in being born and some weakling blames them for not having the childfree lifestyle.

eviltwin · 05-06-2021 4:20pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I get the impression rightly or wrongly, that many parents envy the freedom and financial choices the "childfree by choice" cohort have. Therefore there is often an emotional backlash from (often) harrassed, financially and time strapped parents trying to justify THEIR choice to have kids.

I think that's just another easy dig to make at parents tbh. It must be jealousy :rolleyes:

Flinty997 · 05-06-2021 4:22pm

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

The people I know who are not active in their children's lives or have lost children are not the same as those who have never had children. That is not what I meant.

I would also argue that my friends who had kids in their mid to late 30s were preparing for that for a number of years, they were buying houses and getting ready to ensure their jobs were at a stage that they could comfortably have children. Knowing you will never have kids (in our case certainly) allows us to take career risks, spend money on 'frivolous things' etc. Sure, maybe an oops baby but honestly, I haven't come across anyone who had an oops baby for the first time at this age.

You may not. But the point remains, there's a wide range of experience in life, and most people don't fit into the stereotypes that we all fall into assuming.

There some very obvious stereotypes being thrown around on both sides of the discussion on this thread, that have very little basis in reality.

For example you could be child free but poor. you could have 10 kids and extremely wealthy. You might have one child but very little experience of parenting. you might have no kids, but looked after 5 siblings and have vast parenting experience. You have a child that was dependent on their parent into middle age. you could have a child that left home as soon as they could was fiercely independent. You have found parenting easy, you might have found it impossible. You might have planned it, you might not.

Flinty997 · 05-06-2021 4:28pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I get the impression rightly or wrongly, that many parents envy the freedom and financial choices the "childfree by choice" cohort have. Therefore there is often an emotional backlash from (often) harrassed, financially and time strapped parents trying to justify THEIR choice to have kids.

Remove children from the equation.

Do people in relationships, envy single people, their freedom and financial choices. And vice a versa.

Same thing.

Splish Splash · 05-06-2021 4:33pm

I think everyone should be able to be childfree or, um, ?fruitful by choice.

I reckon in times gone by having kids would have been easier - extended family sharing the load, safer communities and a prevailing attitude of 'go out to play and don't let me see you till dinnertime' took a lot of pressure off parents.

These days, new parents are under the gun from the very start - childcare, babysitters, choosing all the kit and caboodle that goes with a baby, feeding choices and being castigated for whichever choices you make, financial burdens, isolation, substandard soundproofing in apartments and houses, trouble with neighbours over noise etc. - so even if they really believed having kids would be lovely, the lonliness and pressure that some parents will feel is not something they could ever predict going into the process. It's no wonder some feel regret - probably more accurate to say most feel some regret at least sometimes.

But that has nothing to do with vindicating a decision to be childfree by choice. Horses for courses, we all choose to do things differently. Just because I do things one way doesn't mean it's right or wrong, it's just going to be right or wrong for me. You can choose to do what's right (or wrong) for you. It's not one or the other, it's just different. There is risk attached to any major life change and becoming a parent is a big one. There is no guarantee it will suit everyone, a bigger question is how to protect those with no voice that are thrown into the mix.

FWIW I think some people don't realise just how much unsolicited advice is handed down to everyone. There are people who feel completely entitled to tell other people how to live their lives or what decisions they should be making and are not slow to share their opinions loudly and repeatedly. But sure you know what they say about opinions...

05-06-2021 4:38pm

I don't think there are very many parents that 'regret' having their children, because the sheer love they feel for them would be stronger then any other emotion.
But depending on the child and the situation, I'm sure most parents would at some stage, think what life would be like without them.
I have seen parents and families torn apart by the actions or behaviour of their child. I'm sure there are regrets then, hidden away somewhere.
They still love them, but they may not like them very much.

It's interesting to read a parent who regrets having children, when the child is still young. It's unusual.

I don't mind parents posting, but if the post is going to be the typical patronising type of opinion where childfree adults have no idea how fantastic life is with kids, or how their life is finally worth living etc etc etc #rolleyes# then they are gonna get some stick for it.
So yeah, post away, so long as you're happy taking a bit of stick

R.D. aka MR.D · 05-06-2021 4:39pm

eviltwin wrote: »

An if this was a page for people who are unsure about whether to have kids I'd agree with you but its not. Its preaching to the converted.

The forum sets its stall out quite clearly as childfree by choice, not childfree because of circumstances or childfree because I haven't made up my mind yet.

It was a point I raised at the initial request stage that lots of people would have an interest in this forum for various reasons and this article would have slotted in well there but that's not the route the powers that be took. How and ever that's neither here nor there.

I actually didn't realise this forum was so exclusive. I only stunbled upon it after a long hiatus from Boards. It's actually a bit sad that this forum wishes to exclude those who haven't made their mind up or even offer support to those in the early stages of their decsion but the attitude on here makes more sense so thanks for the background.

eviltwin · 05-06-2021 4:43pm

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

I actually didn't realise this forum was so exclusive. I only stunbled upon it after a long hiatus from Boards. It's actually a bit sad that this forum wishes to exclude those who haven't made their mind up or even offer support to those in the early stages of their decsion but the attitude on here makes more sense so thanks for the background.

Well I don't know if that is the intention but the name makes it look that way.

I did think I would find this place useful as a parent of older, grown up kids - we are always looking to find child free spots to go - but by the looks of it being a parent I'm not welcome here.

05-06-2021 4:52pm

eviltwin wrote: »

I did think I would find this place useful as a parent of older, grown up kids - we are always looking to find child free spots to go - but by the looks of it being a parent I'm not welcome here.

I wouldn't think that at all!
I imagine there could be some good resources for people like yourself, child free holidays and the like.
It may be the case that some patronising posts would not be welcome, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to keep parents out.

meeeeh · 05-06-2021 5:10pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't mind parents posting, but if the post is going to be the typical patronising type of opinion where childfree adults have no idea how fantastic life is with kids, or how their life is finally worth living etc etc etc #rolleyes# then they are gonna get some stick for it.
So yeah, post away, so long as you're happy taking a bit of stick

Those type of posts grate me and I have kids.

Igotadose · 05-06-2021 5:15pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I wouldn't think that at all!
I imagine there could be some good resources for people like yourself, child free holidays and the like.
It may be the case that some patronising posts would not be welcome, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to keep parents out.

Respectfully disagree. One forum for the childfree that parents aren't allowed to post in, doesn't sound excessive. Especially if they behave badly. It's the mod's call, though I'd support a blanket ban on parent's posting here.

And, on a tangential subject, how interesting to me that a parent posts mentioning looking for childfree experiences now that the children have gone and moved out. Guess that being around kids isn't all great fun after all. Why would that be?

The_Conductor · 05-06-2021 5:39pm

This thread, and the forum, are not the exclusive domain of childless adults, however, if/when you post here, you must be cognisant of the ethos of the forum and not deliberately go out of your way to try and antagonise those who are not in the position as you may be in.

Several posters have skated on exceptionally thin ice in this thread- and this is a one time only warning, the name of the forum- and the ethos of the forum, is to be safe place for those who are childfree or those who might wish to discuss topics pertinent to those who are childfree.

You're not going to get any further warnings- either keep with the ethos of the forum if you intend posting here, or suffer the consequences.

eviltwin · 05-06-2021 5:46pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Respectfully disagree. One forum for the childfree that parents aren't allowed to post in, doesn't sound excessive. Especially if they behave badly. It's the mod's call, though I'd support a blanket ban on parent's posting here.

And, on a tangential subject, how interesting to me that a parent posts mentioning looking for childfree experiences now that the children have gone and moved out. Guess that being around kids isn't all great fun after all. Why would that be?

That's a bit of a stretch to be fair.

You've got a real bee in your bonnet about this, I wonder how you are in real life with people who have kids and kids themselves. You must be great fun at family events.

Flinty997 · 05-06-2021 6:40pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Respectfully disagree. One forum for the childfree that parents aren't allowed to post in, doesn't sound excessive. Especially if they behave badly. It's the mod's call, though I'd support a blanket ban on parent's posting here.

You could ban any mention of parents and parenting. And mention of children except the the absence of them. As its irrelevant to this forum. But then this thread wouldn't exist.

Igotadose wrote: »

And, on a tangential subject, how interesting to me that a parent posts mentioning looking for childfree experiences now that the children have gone and moved out. Guess that being around kids isn't all great fun after all. Why would that be?

I don't do all the things I did in my youth now. Does that mean none of it was ever fun.

05-06-2021 6:46pm

This thread is now the most posted on in the forum.

lrushe · 05-06-2021 9:47pm

Igotadose wrote: »

And, on a tangential subject, how interesting to me that a parent posts mentioning looking for childfree experiences now that the children have gone and moved out. Guess that being around kids isn't all great fun after all. Why would that be?

I used to read the Newborn and Toddler forum when my kids were younger but now they are older I no longer do, it doesn't mean I disliked them as toddlers it just means my life and interests have moved on and I've less in common with those with younger children.
If a poster no longer has dependent children they would most like have alot of interests in common with a child free person.

Article: "Having a kid is probably my biggest life regret: ‘Wife concurs’"

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