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Article: "Having a kid is probably my biggest life regret: ‘Wife concurs’"

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭ Flinty997


    DavyD_83 wrote: »
    You're not wrong.
    The downside ....

    There is no downside if you're not interested.


  • Posts: 18,752 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    You do realise that the government will choose your nursing home, right?

    The government won't be choosing my nursing home, if I choose to go into one. Why would you think such a thing?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    I think the amount of people who dont want kids after having them is very small.
    Maybe for the first few years, which are hard, but after that it gets much easier and joyful.
    At one point we didnt want kids ever either.
    This changed as we got older.

    I posted this in another thread,

    All I can say is ...... Kids
    You have two lives.
    One before kids, and one after.

    Before kids, you wonder what the fcuk do people do when they have kids. All the hardship and hassle of the little snot factories. You wonder how on earth could people let that happen to them.

    Then after to have kids, yes they are snot factories and all the other stuff too. But you have a brand new life. A better one. And you wonder how that happened. You wonder what did I ever do before I had kids. What a life I have now. So much happiness and joy, and snots.


  • Posts: 18,752 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Then after to have kids, yes they are snot factories and all the other stuff too. But you have a brand new life. A better one. And you wonder how that happened. You wonder what did I ever do before I had kids. What a life I have now. So much happiness and joy, and snots.

    And this patronising post is why people wanted a childfree by choice forum!


  • Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭ Mike Murdock


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    I think the amount of people who dont want kids after having them is very small.
    Maybe for the first few years, which are hard, but after that it gets much easier and joyful.

    And then they hit the teenage years...

    tenor.gif?itemid=3580199


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,538 ✭✭✭✭ Igotadose


    Flinty997 wrote: »
    This forum in my opinion should be about the positives of being child free and how best to take advantage of that.

    Way too focused on kids and parenting.
    Usually when Parents find out about fora like this, they invade and burble about the joy of having had children. How can anyone think differently? A Parent can't be wrong, can it? And a parent's choice to have children can NEVER be criticized, unlike the choice to not have children.

    They never ever consider the risks of having children. Never. Nor the costs.

    If you have made a life choice thats made you happy. There is no need to constantly reaffirm that choice.
    Great point - but it's the Parents that need the reaffirmation, not the child-free. Why else show up and proselytize?
    If there are people and family who constantly try to do this to you. Have minimal or no contact with them. It may not be easy but it's necessary.

    Its not good to be constantly focused on negativity, as some on this forum seems to tend to do.

    There was some good discussion on traveling during school time and adult only hotels, restaurants etc. Things like that are excellent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    bubblypop wrote: »
    And this patronising post is why people wanted a childfree by choice forum!


    What ????
    Cop on to yourself there.
    Nobody is patronising or having a go at you.
    Have kids if you want them. Dont if you dont want them.
    But there is no need to attack people who have the opposite experience as yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    And then they hit the teenage years...

    tenor.gif?itemid=3580199


    I am coming up to that :)
    Was lucky to make it out of my own teenage years.
    I hear it will be interesting times ahead :)


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    But you have a brand new life. A better one.

    Who's 'you' in this scenario? Maybe it should say 'I'?

    That's what's so annoying about the weird taboos we have about how we talk about becoming a parent.

    Sure, most parents don't regret it, but those that do are forbidden from talking about it.

    As for those of us that choose not to become a parent at all? I can't think of any other choices in life that invite people to tell you that they have a better life than you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,538 ✭✭✭✭ Igotadose


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    What ????
    Cop on to yourself there.
    Nobody is patronising or having a go at you.
    Have kids if you want them. Dont if you dont want them.
    But there is no need to attack people who have the opposite experience as yourself.

    Cop on yourself. "A better life?" So, you're judging the child-free's choice as *worse* than the choice to have kids? Seems patronizing to me.

    And, it's not 'experience' that's being debated here. It's the choice. Better to say that the child-free have made the opposite choice. The decision to have children is a choice, after all, even in Ireland.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,751 ✭✭✭ LillySV


    Faith wrote: »

    This is the ramblings of a pathetic and selfish loser who probably blames everyone else for being a miserable prick with a miserable life


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Faith


    Pro tip: Have kids if you want to have kids. Don't have kids if you don't want to have kids.

    Fcuk sakes this should be adulthood 101.

    I 100% agree with you. But the problem is typified in this very thread - say you don't want children and you're deluged with people telling you how wrong you are, how delightful children are and how lesser your life is without them.

    It takes an enormous amount of strength not to bow to that societal pressure, and not everyone manages that. Thus, you end up in the situation of having regretful parents, and it's a fact of life that needs to be openly discussed. Being open about it is the only way to bring about change, not hiding it in a corner and pretending it doesn't exist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,538 ✭✭✭✭ Igotadose


    LillySV wrote: »
    This is the ramblings of a pathetic and selfish loser who probably blames everyone else for being a miserable prick with a miserable life

    Did you read the article? There were many people quoted, survey results shared, books quoted. Are they all pathetic losers with miserable lives? They share one thing - regret at having children. Even a mention of an FB group, 28000 followers, sharing the regret.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    Jesus there is a lot of animosity towards anyone who states that they might be happy to have kids in this thread.
    Its almost like having kids somehow makes other people forget what it was like to not have kids, therefore they are not allowed to compare life without kids against life after kids as a good thing.
    Only bad experiences allowed in here I guess.
    Kinda scary actually. I think i'll leave.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 44,002 CMod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    you have to understand the context; this is the childfree by choice forum. pretty much everyone in here has had quite a bit of 'you're missing out' or 'you'll regret it when you're older' etc.; some quite pointed comments.
    'i had kids and i don't regret it' doesn't really add much to the debate, especially when no one is arguing that most parents regret it. most of us here probably had happy childhoods with parents who made the choice and didn't regret it.
    it's more about that minority of parents who have admitted to regretting parenthood. and i know people - both my own age, and my parents' generation, who have admitted that having kids might have been a mistake (and yes, i accept that regarding my own generation, they may be going through a slump and will come out the other end happy)

    i'm not trying to justify/excuse all comments btw; there have been some shall we say, hasty, things said.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ R.D. aka MR.D


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Jesus there is a lot of animosity towards anyone who states that they might be happy to have kids in this thread.
    Its almost like having kids somehow makes other people forget what it was like to not have kids, therefore they are not allowed to compare life without kids against life after kids as a good thing.
    Only bad experiences allowed in here I guess.
    Kinda scary actually. I think i'll leave.

    It isn't about comparing the two, it's about going on to a specific forum and saying your life is better with kids.

    What would happen if I went on to the parenting forum and started talking about how great my life without kids is, all the things i can do and how now that people have kids they just can't understand because they are trapped. It is just rude!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭ Flinty997


    Igotadose wrote: »
    ....Great point - but it's the Parents that need the reaffirmation, not the child-free. Why else show up and proselytize?...

    It's human nature and its an open forum. If you have a Topic Title that says Soccer is a waste of time, you're going to get people who want to disagree with you. Some will be to argue with you some will be trying to be helpful and give their perspective.

    On some forums like the cycling one certain topics are banned to one thread only. Because drivers derailed every thread with the same "opinions" which were based on flawed information and a lack of experience. Cyclists wanted to talk about cycling not driving in every thread. They do have threads like the near miss thread to share experience's like that. But the majority of the forum is not focused on bad things about driving.


  • Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭ Mike Murdock


    It's not surprising that the entitled self obsessed child adults today don't like the responsibility and self sacrifice of children.

    Some people are just not emotionally equiped

    KFDdEx.gif


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭ Himnydownunder


    Governments need babies to be born, so that they have a tax paying workforce to pay for pensioners and civil servants. That is a big source of the societal pressure to have a child. Also regarding others putting pressure on you to have a child, people will always pester you about something. When you are in your late teens it’s “what college course are you interested in?” When you finish said college course it’s “have you got a job with your degree yet?” Then it’s “where are you working?” Add in “are you seeing anybody?” When you are seeing somebody “when are ye getting married?” And so on and so forth till you die.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭ meeeeh


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Usually when Parents find out about fora like this, they invade and burble about the joy of having had children. How can anyone think differently? A Parent can't be wrong, can it? And a parent's choice to have children can NEVER be criticized, unlike the choice to not have children.
    That's not true. Whatever issues childfree people have one of the favourite sports in the country is kick the single mother (historically even lock away the single mother). This points to complete lack of awareness what's going on in society.


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  • Posts: 18,752 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    What ????
    Cop on to yourself there.
    Nobody is patronising or having a go at you.
    Have kids if you want them. Dont if you dont want them.
    But there is no need to attack people who have the opposite experience as yourself.

    This is a child free by choice forum.
    Do you think posters need to be told how wonderful having kids is? We know, we get it, we still don't want them.
    Your post is patronising considering where you are posting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,319 ✭✭✭✭ seamus


    There is a common thread running through that article. Every person they quote, didn't have kids because they wanted them. They self-admittedly didn't really do their research into it at all, just went with the crowd or they did it to make someone else happy even though they knew they didn't want it, or they did it because they felt pressured to do it.

    It points to the need for anyone thinking of having kids to really understand the commitment that they're making, and not walk blindly into it.

    Some people complain that nobody tells you what it's like, but that's just not the case, as an earlier post mentions. There is no end of in-depth discussion about it. The main problem is that reading about it doesn't really do it justice. Until you're elbow-deep in it you don't really understand how bad (and good) it actually can be.

    For those who do regret it, they need to speak to a therapist. Not because they're crazy. But regretting a decision which is done and irreversible, is pissing in the wind. It's self-flagellation. Life has been changed permanently. You need to learn to accept the new circumstances, or make more changes that make it bearable for you. Walk away, leave, move to another country if you have to. An absent parent is better than a resentful parent.

    Or learn to move past your regret and accept your circumstances. But wallowing in your regret and not talking about it with a professional is a sure path to a miserable life for you and your family.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Jesus there is a lot of animosity towards anyone who states that they might be happy to have kids in this thread.
    Might be happy to have kids?

    If you said 'my life is better', that makes sense, that's comparing your own personal experience, past vs. present. No argument from me.

    Saying it's a better life in general (which is what you did) compares every person without kids to every parent. That's a very different statement, and given the forum title you've gotta know what kind of reaction to expect.

    I actually love kids, but I know I wouldn't be able for my own. My mother minded a lot of kids in our house when I was growing up so I've done plenty of minding myself. I'm not talking babysitting; I've taken care of sick kids, changed countless nappies, managed tantrums, teething, and the good stuff, and I know I couldn't hack that 24/7.

    This continuous message I get from friends and colleagues that:
    a) having kids changes you and makes you a better person, and I've no idea how fulfilling it is;
    b) having kids is the hardest thing in the world and I have no idea how difficult it is and that nothing could ever possibly prepare me; and
    c) when I get older (I'm 30) I'll change my mind, and if not, sure accidents happen;

    drives me nuts. There's no way to win, no way to get respect, except to just have kids.

    So yeah, I stand by my reaction to hearing about 'a better life'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,751 ✭✭✭ LillySV


    Governments need babies to be born, so that they have a tax paying workforce to pay for pensioners and civil servants. That is a big source of the societal pressure to have a child. Also regarding others putting pressure on you to have a child, people will always pester you about something. When you are in your late teens it’s “what college course are you interested in?” When you finish said college course it’s “have you got a job with your degree yet?” Then it’s “where are you working?” Add in “are you seeing anybody?” When you are seeing somebody “when are ye getting married?” And so on and so forth till you die.

    Are u in baby infants yourself ? If your mammy and daddy didn’t have kids , u wouldn’t be here right now... I don’t think pensioners or civil servants would be impacted too much ... u on the other hand would not be here filling boards with such fantastic commentary ... and if every other parent at time had decided not to have kids... we wouldn’t be here either ... so eventually all living humans will die... extinction will occur... human race over ... I think this reason is why humans naturally want to reproduce ...

    And tbh the reason why a lot of people in recent years might not want kids is quite simple .... .. lots of manchilds and womanchilds... total focus on themselves and don’t want to be told/ have to factor the needs of anyone else in their lives ... they are happy to be able to carry on playing the PlayStation until all hours of the nite like they did 20 years ago when they were 10... and get to go out and drink shots and get messy in the public park at weekend ... no worries someone else will clean that mess up for them too ...after all they are more important it seems...


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭ meeeeh


    LillySV wrote: »
    Are u in baby infants yourself ? If your mammy and daddy didn’t have kids , u wouldn’t be here right now... I don’t think pensioners or civil servants would be impacted too much ... u on the other hand would not be here filling boards with such fantastic commentary ... and if every other parent at time had decided not to have kids... we wouldn’t be here either ... so eventually all living humans will die... extinction will occur... human race over ... I think this reason is why humans naturally want to reproduce ...

    And tbh the reason why a lot of people in recent years might not want kids is quite simple .... .. lots of manchilds and womanchilds... total focus on themselves and don’t want to be told/ have to factor the needs of anyone else in their lives ... they are happy to be able to carry on playing the PlayStation until all hours of the nite like they did 20 years ago when they were 10... and get to go out and drink shots and get messy in the public park at weekend ... no worries someone else will clean that mess up for them too ...after all they are more important it seems...

    Igotadose and you should get your own thread to cover any generalisation you can think of.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,964 ✭✭✭ budgese


    It isn't about comparing the two, it's about going on to a specific forum and saying your life is better with kids.

    What would happen if I went on to the parenting forum and started talking about how great my life without kids is, all the things i can do and how now that people have kids they just can't understand because they are trapped. It is just rude!

    I actually am laughing way too hard imagining how this would go down. It would be a disaster zone.

    Catch evolve transfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,463 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    LillySV wrote: »
    And tbh the reason why a lot of people in recent years might not want kids is quite simple .... .. lots of manchilds and womanchilds... total focus on themselves and don’t want to be told/ have to factor the needs of anyone else in their lives ... they are happy to be able to carry on playing the PlayStation until all hours of the nite like they did 20 years ago when they were 10... and get to go out and drink shots and get messy in the public park at weekend ... no worries someone else will clean that mess up for them too ...after all they are more important it seems...

    Ah here.
    I think the reason a lot of people have kids is because they are so uncomfortable in their own skin and their own existence, and unhappy in their lives and relationships, and never found anything that makes them happy to be alive, and that they feel incomplete.
    So they have a child which gives them purpose and a reason to live and something to love unconditionally. It papers over their insecurities for a while.
    I kind of view it as sometimes being a bit of a cop out to self-actualisation and I think I should be entitled to that view in a child free forum.


  • Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    meeeeh wrote: »
    That's not true. Whatever issues childfree people have one of the favourite sports in the country is kick the single mother (historically even lock away the single mother). ....................

    We've moved away from that now, single mothers get forever homes, financial security etc that allows many of them to lavish presents like scramblers on their kids.


  • Posts: 18,752 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Augeo wrote: »
    We've moved away from that now, single mothers get forever homes, financial security etc that allows many of them to lavish presents like scramblers on their kids.

    Just a different way to kick single mothers now........


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,260 Mod ✭✭✭✭ The_Conductor


    Guys- less of the all-encompassing generalisations please- lots of people don't fit the stereotypes that some people seem to have in their minds, and don't appreciate being pigeon holed as such.

    The article raises a few valid points, but also paints a picture that some people will recognise, but other people not.

    Life isn't a fairy tale for most people- some good things happen, some crap things happen.
    In the case discussed in the article- the person I feel sorry for, is not 'James' the person being interviewed (or his estranged ex) - its the little kid.

    Having children- or not having children- is a valid decision. However, if you decide to have children, despite not wanting them- you do not get to take it out on the kid- the kid is the innocent one in all of this. I do not feel any sympathy for the guy being interviewed.


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