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RSA ad on unaccompanied L drivers

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    #332
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,382 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    dense wrote: »
    Why the attitude?
    I shouldn't have to check to see if their current height falls within whatever limits the engineer based his feelings in court on.
    No attitude, just a practical suggestion if you want to actually address the matter.


    I'm not sure what is meant by the 'shouldn't have to check'. How else could the matter be communicated to you?


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    #333
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Needles73 wrote: »
    Should we have a national ad campaign to make an example of the Gardai who never inforced the rule ? No one disagrees that it was her fault. Anyways im done.

    Yes, blame gardai for people committing crimes. Blame anyone, everyone and even cats eyes on the fcuking road before taking something on the chin.


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    #334
    Needles73
    Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Needles73


    pablo128 wrote: »
    Yes, blame gardai for people committing crimes. Blame anyone, everyone and even cats eyes on the fcuking road before taking something on the chin.

    First of all I’m referring to the ad campaign in this thread and the collision it’s based upon.
    Its perfectly obvious who was at fault and they have to live with that on their conscious.
    My point is this advert points the blame at one individual because it’s easy and a lazy thing to do. End off. A national campaign could have been achieved in many forms without the need for this particular advert.


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    #335
    lbc2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,291 ✭✭✭lbc2019


    Needles73 wrote: »
    First of all I’m referring to the ad campaign in this thread and the collision it’s based upon.
    Its perfectly obvious who was at fault and they have to live with that on their conscious.
    My point is this advert points the blame at one individual because it’s easy and a lazy thing to do. End off.

    The court found her at fault


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    #336
    Needles73
    Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Needles73


    lbc2019 wrote: »
    The court found her at fault

    And what’s your point ? Was part of her sentence to be vilified or be the focus of a national safety campaign ?


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    #337
    lbc2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,291 ✭✭✭lbc2019


    Needles73 wrote: »
    And what’s your point ? Was part of her sentence to be vilified or be the focus of a national safety campaign ?

    Your say it points blame at her as if its incorrect- it’s fact


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    #338
    Needles73
    Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Needles73


    lbc2019 wrote: »
    Your say it points blame at her as if its incorrect- it’s fact

    I don’t. I say that an ad campaign (any ad) apportioning blame is incorrect.


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    #339
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Needles73 wrote: »
    I don’t. I say that an ad campaign (any ad) apportioning blame is incorrect.

    You are aware of how to make an example out of someone, aren't you? You pretty much point at them, highlight what they did, and remind others of the consequences.


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    #340
    User142
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭User142


    It's pathetic how people will bend over backwards to attribute blame for a crash caused by an unqualified driver to anything but the fact that the driver literally didn't have the experience to drive safely. There are hazards and dangers on our roads, it's the entire reason we need people to prove they can drive before we give them an actual licence. The presence of hazards and dangers on our roads doesn't mitigate the fact she didn't hold a full drivers licence. In fact, it demonstrates exactly why inexperienced learner permit holders shouldn't be driving by themselves.


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    #341
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    gctest50 wrote: »
    She clipped their car.

    Their car went through a gap in the wall that was "there for years"

    Whoever didn't fixup the wall with the car-sized gap in it killed them

    The water was 2.62 feet ( 0.8 meters ) deep - why didn't any of the bystanders break a window ?



    .



    You do know the car went in upside down and the doors and windows on both passenger and driver's side were wedged into the ditch.

    People did try to get in through the boot but were too late.


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    #342
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    ............

    People did try to get in through the boot but were too late.

    The daughter was still alive, she died holding the hand of one of those people that were trying


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    #343
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    User142 wrote: »
    It's pathetic how people will bend over backwards to attribute blame for a crash caused by an unqualified driver to anything but the fact that the driver literally didn't have the experience to drive safely. There are hazards and dangers on our roads, it's the entire reason we need people to prove they can drive before we give them an actual licence. The presence of hazards and dangers on our roads doesn't mitigate the fact she didn't hold a full drivers licence. In fact, it demonstrates exactly why inexperienced learner permit holders shouldn't be driving by themselves.

    Welcome to boards.ie !


    Instead of the RSA wasting money on some dismal misery advert, they should have done a proper feature

    - Recreate it with actresses ( can't be that hard to find a Ford Focus in a scrapyard) & no need to go for full on gore stuff

    - show where the car went through the gap in the wall that was there for years

    - Go through the engineers reports with the speed each were going


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    #344
    almostover
    Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭almostover


    fritzelly wrote: »
    No issue with the ad - why use makey uppey stories that are not real. Use real life stories to hit home that you - a unlicensed driver do not have the skills to be driving illegally by yourself - look at this story where someone thought they should be exempt from the law and ended up killing someone.
    As for the sentence I believe anyone killing someone in a road accident should be charged with manslaughter. When all you get for destroying a family is a driving ban and a stern telling off then what kind of signal does that send to all the people in the future that do the same thing thinking they are excellent drivers and nothing could ever happen
    If you intentionally go out and do something knowing full well what you are doing is illegal then you should expect to be hit with the full force of the law

    Roll on the next unlicensed driver killing someone or seriously harming them.

    So if I have bloutout on the way to work tomorrow and collide with another car killing one of the occupants then I should be charged with manslaughter? A work colleague of mine killed someone on the road last year accidentally not through his own fault. The other driver had lost control of their motorbike and hit my colleague. But let's lock him up too sure didn't he kill someone in a road traffic accident. Just as an FYI despite not being at fault for the accident he was on sick leave for several months due to the mental trauma of the accident. In future please think before you write emotive tripe like this.


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    #345
    emeldc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭emeldc


    almostover wrote: »
    So if I have bloutout on the way to work tomorrow and collide with another car killing one of the occupants then I should be charged with manslaughter? A work colleague of mine killed someone on the road last year accidentally not through his own fault. The other driver had lost control of their motorbike and hit my colleague. But let's lock him up too sure didn't he kill someone in a road traffic accident. Just as an FYI despite not being at fault for the accident he was on sick leave for several months due to the mental trauma of the accident. In future please think before you write emotive tripe like this.

    lbc2019 will be along in a minute to tell you that your colleague should have been mindful of other road users :)
    lbc2019 wrote: »
    Drivers are required to be alert for other road users


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    #346
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    almostover wrote: »
    So if I have bloutout on the way to work tomorrow and collide with another car killing one of the occupants then I should be charged with manslaughter? A work colleague of mine killed someone on the road last year accidentally not through his own fault. The other driver had lost control of their motorbike and hit my colleague. But let's lock him up too sure didn't he kill someone in a road traffic accident. Just as an FYI despite not being at fault for the accident he was on sick leave for several months due to the mental trauma of the accident. In future please think before you write emotive tripe like this.

    so then the other driver was at fault, youre really not comparing like with like here.


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    #347
    User142
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭User142


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Welcome to boards.ie !


    Instead of the RSA wasting money on some dismal misery advert, they should have done a proper feature

    - Recreate it with actresses ( can't be that hard to find a Ford Focus in a scrapyard) & no need to go for full on gore stuff

    - show where the car went through the gap in the wall that was there for years

    - Go through the engineers reports with the speed each were going

    Thank you :)

    I disagree. The ad is a great use of money. I think it will feed into the decision making process of parents when they decide to not allow their children who don't hold drivers licences to take their cars. This poor man has had his family taken from him because a parent decided to give his car to his unqualified daughter. It really hammers home just how much destruction an unqualified learner driver can cause behind the wheel.

    There are many hazards on our roads. People driving without holding a licence shouldn't be one of them. Even if this crash hadn't happened, aggressively clamping down on the practice of unaccompanied unqualified learner permit holders is desirable.


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    #348
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    and nobody is saying unmercifully tortured. Just in this and some other cases there was no justice served. An admission of guilt and a 4 year driving ban would have sufficed and atleast given the families something, instead she brazenly pleads innocent and strolls out of the court smiling without accepting a single percent of the blame for the deaths she caused. Im sure the accident will 'weigh' on her for the rest of her life , but a tangible punishment for a tangible crime would have been somewhat suitable.

    ...and the judge and jury observed the plaintiff and heard and saw all the evidence and, not for the first time either Eric, totally disagreed with you. Did it ever occur to you that rather than most judge and juries being WRONG (according to you) your just not a good judge of character?


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    #349
    SimonTemplar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    road_high wrote: »
    Anyone see the latest RSA ad? Man from north cork who’s wife and daughter died a few years ago in a horrible accident- the ad is quite pointed and sharp I think. I know his family were killed and it’s very tragic but the poor girl didn’t deliberately set out to kill them and could have happened any driver or accompanied driver. I think it’s in poor taste/tone


    People who drink and drive, speed, or use their phone while driving don't set out to kill either. But the rules are there for a reason, ultimately to save lives. If you break the rules, rules you know are there for safety, you knowingly increasing the risk of causing injury or death.



    It is a horrible case but ultimately she broke the rules.


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    #350
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    splinter65 wrote: »
    ...and the judge and jury observed the plaintiff and heard and saw all the evidence and, not for the first time either Eric, totally disagreed with you. Did it ever occur to you that rather than most judge and juries being WRONG (according to you) your just not a good judge of character?

    Or could it be that our legal system is set up to be too leniant on offenders because of who they are.

    How many people do we see being let off crimes in court because of where they came from , or as applies in this case, courts complete reluctance to prosecute young women for anything.


  • Options
    #351
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Or could it be that our legal system is set up to be too leniant on offenders because of who they are.

    How many people do we see being let off crimes in court because of where they came from , or as applies in this case, courts complete reluctance to prosecute young women for anything.

    Another who’s not a fan of our justice system I see. Which justice system would you prefer?


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    #352
    lbc2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,291 ✭✭✭lbc2019


    emeldc wrote: »
    lbc2019 will be along in a minute to tell you that your colleague should have been mindful of other road users :)

    If they had a blow out the velocity they were hit at would allow nil reaction time


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    #353
    lbc2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,291 ✭✭✭lbc2019


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Or could it be that our legal system is set up to be too leniant on offenders because of who they are.

    How many people do we see being let off crimes in court because of where they came from , or as applies in this case, courts complete reluctance to prosecute young women for anything.

    You mean reduced sentence? No one is acquitted based on status


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    #354
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Another who’s not a fan of our justice system I see. Which justice system would you prefer?

    One that actually prosecutes criminals, one where people with double digit convictions arent walking around freely, one where justice is blind as it should be and a tracksuit clad scrote from the flats with a junior cert , a young woman from the country and a 50 year old millionaire have literally the same odds infront of any judge. A justice system willing to stand up against the tide of people claiming that coming from a bad area, having depression or any other wishy washy excuse will not get them a lesser sentence, a justice system where families who have lost loved ones because of somebody elses choices gets to hear the word guilty and know that the loss of their loved one has been authentically given a value and a perpetrator and that perpetrator will be materially punished for it.


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    #355
    lbc2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,291 ✭✭✭lbc2019


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    One that actually prosecutes criminals, one where people with double digit convictions arent walking around freely, one where justice is blind as it should be and a tracksuit clad scrote from the flats with a junior cert , a young woman from the country and a 50 year old millionaire have literally the same odds infront of any judge. A justice system willing to stand up against the tide of people claiming that coming from a bad area, having depression or any other wishy washy excuse will not get them a lesser sentence, a justice system where families who have lost loved ones because of somebody elses choices gets to hear the word guilty and know that the loss of their loved one has been authentically given a value and a perpetrator and that perpetrator will be materially punished for it.

    So depression is just a wishy washy excuse? Good to know!

    The defence do use all the usual excuses to get a lesser sentence


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    #356
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    lbc2019 wrote: »
    You mean reduced sentence? No one is acquitted based on status

    check out the stories of the two who were aquitted of the anabels nightclub incident where Brian Murphy died in 2000, it absolutely is possible.
    But regardless of status, there is a part of the natural psyche thats remiss to convict women here.


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    #357
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    lbc2019 wrote: »
    So depression is just a wishy washy excuse? Good to know!

    The defence do use all the usual excuses to get a lesser sentence

    To clarify that, its a real thing and people do suffer it but there are some people who use it in court as an excuse to reduce a sentence.


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    #358
    lbc2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,291 ✭✭✭lbc2019


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    check out the stories of the two who were aquitted of the anabels nightclub incident where Brian Murphy died in 2000, it absolutely is possible.
    But regardless of status, there is a part of the natural psyche thats remiss to convict women here.

    They were convicted were’t they


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    #359
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    lbc2019 wrote: »
    They were convicted were’t they

    two were, two were acquitted.


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    #360
    emeldc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭emeldc


    lbc2019 wrote: »
    If they had a blow out the velocity they were hit at would allow nil reaction time
    What blow out? Why are you making sh1t up to suit your own agenda.


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    #361
    lbc2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,291 ✭✭✭lbc2019


    emeldc wrote: »
    What blow out? Why are you making sh1t up to suit your own agenda.

    Sorry I mixed up the two stories the motorcycle I thought had a blowout.

    Don’t come at me with Such an accusatory tone


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