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Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion
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punisher5112 wrote: »dB actually to the contrary put in the better bid....
Think of it what you will and I understand dB has its downsides but I for one believe in keeping Irish jobs and Irish power...
I can tell you now this is the start of selling us all off.
Why do we need a company that the UK and even Singapore if I'm not mistaken has problems with... Singapore could well be another but I can see through this sh1t....
As I said,the actual Tender Documentation,and the deliberations on the tender is not yet in the Public Domain.
When it is,we may have a clearer notion of what the actual deliberations entailed,until then we'll have to keep speculating.
The only aspect that is public,is that the tendering prcess was handled by two groups,who did not interact with each other.
The groups were Cost and Quality,with the weighting being 65/35.
The speculation is that BAC were stronger on the Cost element,but lagged behind on the quality aspect.
Go-Ahead,having long standing verifiable experience of the tendering process (mainly in London),could thus provide evidence of external quality monitoring,whilst BAC's tendering experience was very limited.
The arguement regarding "Irish" jobs,and "Irish" power are on the surface,valid,however since Ireland voted to join the European Economic Community almost 50 years ago,and later,freely decided to become a member of an economic and political European "Union",that arguement is now somewhat moot.
Many people roundly criticising U.S. President Trump for his "America First" stance,are also among the first to demand similar here in Ireland without seeing the parallells.
As a balance,under the same E.U.rules,there is nothing to prevent BAC itself tendering for some of the many E.U. wide Public Transport Tenders which have formed a large part of Europes Urban Transport market for decades now.
As to the status of the Go-Ahead Group in the UK and elsewhere,it is far from the bottom of the "problem" ladder in the Industry.
The Singaporean tender is the most recent,and after a somewhat rapid learning process,the Company now appears to have learned a lesson on how to enter such markets....
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/go-ahead-singapore-begins-bus-services-7781210
Perhaps there are some lessons for our Public Transport industry to be learned from studying Singapores ongoing experience of Bus Market Opening by Tender....Amid a manpower shortage in the bus industry, the arrival of new entrants Go-Ahead Singapore and Tower Transit have among other things, prompted a review of bus captain salaries, and several pay hikes in recent months.
SMRT raised its basic starting salary for its bus captains to S$1,950 from Sep 1. SBS Transit increased its starting salary from S$1,775 to S$1,950 in June.
Go-Ahead Singapore increased its starting salary from the S$1,865 it announced in February to S$1,950 in July.
"We will conduct an annual review but at the same time, we will monitor closely on what is being offered within the transport industry," it said this week.
Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/go-ahead-singapore-begins-bus-services-7781210
Considering that BAC has been operating in a tendered environment for ten years now,the concept should be well understood by now.
The main issue ,as I see it,is whether circling the wagons and throwing rocks at those outside the circle will bring any gains ?
Perhaps ten years ago it may well have,but now,it all sounds like a looped 1980's soundtrack of Unionists shouting Ulster sez NO !!!.
Whether anybody likes it or not,Go-Ahead has already recruited Administrative and Management grade staff,many of whom will be Irish,maybe even Dubs :eek: and that recruitment is likely to continue apace.
It's not as if their Company is sending recruiting Sergeants,or Press Gangs roaming the streets of Dublin,to bludgeon unsuspecting Busdrivers into their company,they lay out their stall and anybody interested applies,the rest simply walk on by.
Time and events have outpaced the situation,and those who adapt will survive.
In the meantime Dublin,as a City is going to see,through Busconnects, the very significant restructuring of it's entire Public Bus Service,for which there is now a significant and rapidly growing demand.
It's all to play for
Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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punisher5112 wrote: »Stop you know dam well jobs will come from abroad as in recruiting from outside of this island
But,I don't "know damn well" any such thing.
However,what I DO know is that any 100% native Irish CIE Group employee will today,find themselves working and socialising alongside,people from over 150 different Countries.
In some cases the CIE companies themselves,actively sought applications from foreign parts,even foreigner than London or Birmingham.
The recruitment of These foreign folk did not suddenly spell the end of CIE as we know it,and so shall it be with Go Ahead,should they manage to recruit a rake of non freckle faced,tousel haired,Ginger gaelgeoiri to drive the NTA's buses.
The World has changed in so many ways,and children of the 1950's such as I,can often only gaze with wonder at how much of that change has filtered down to everyday life.
Do I agree with all of those developments ?...... No I do not.
Am I comfortable with all of these developments ?...No I am not.
Do I feel the need to campaign against these deveopments ?...No I do not.
When I review my own journey through life,I see up's and down's,but when I ask myself if my current lifestyle is easier and fairer than that enjoyed by my late Parents,then I have to say a resounding Yes,it is.
My view now,is that like in the past,I have to find a way to work-around the inevitable changes,both personally and in the structure within which I work.
I can remember when Aircoach began operations,and all sorts of manic stuff about their staff,buses and employment were the grist of the canteen mill.
Yet today,so many years later,I share roadspace every day (and the occasional wave) with Drivers whom I recognise from Day 1 in their company.
Some of these lads have non-Dublin accents too,but they never troubled me in any way,and so too will it be with Go Ahead.
Realistically,Go Ahead,like BAC,have advertised their Jobs on a Website which can be accessed Worldwide,and again,just like BAC they will have to consider whatever applications they get.
I feel that some belief that Go Ahead has a Terracotta Army of Busdriver Clones,massed on the Welsh Coast,poised to wipe the traditional Irish busdriver out,may be a tad far from the reality.
With some 27,000 employees in it's group,it would be a safe bet to assume that some of these may even be IRISH themselves,and may well see here an opportunity to return to the oul sod,whilst remaining with their current employer.
Are we to regard that as a declaration of Bus war or suchlike ?
BAC is now almost ten years into operating in a Tendered Regime,albeit a directly awarded one.
Go Ahead has 30 years similar experience of working,in a competitively tendered world,and it is that experience which I believe tilted the balance for them this time.
Change is a coming,with Busconnects being the most obvious one,and I believe most of it will end up being managed in a way which will see all of our boats rising with the tide.
For sure there will be the occasional squall,but so be it.
We can either line up behind King Canute and shout loudly at the incoming tide,or,we can learn to paddle and remain afloat....there is always a choice.
Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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We can either line up behind King Canute and shout loudly at the incoming tide,or,we can learn to paddle and remain afloat....there is always a choice.
Alek, fair play, you do try to put up a defence of how we all have to get on with it...
...but there's no getting away from the fact there has been no comparable situation to this. It doesn't need any speculation, the 'regulator' needs this 'trial' to work, hence, this operator to succeed than anyone before. This is supposed to be a trial for the further rollout, it has to succeed for the 'regulator'.
And it's ok to admit that some are prepared to just turn a blind eye to that conflict of interest.0 -
Alek, fair play, you do try to put up a defence of how we all have to get on with it...
...but there's no getting away from the fact there has been no comparable situation to this. It doesn't need any speculation, the 'regulator' needs this 'trial' to work, hence, this operator to succeed than anyone before. This is supposed to be a trial for the further rollout, it has to succeed for the 'regulator'.
And it's ok to admit that some are prepared to just turn a blind eye to that conflict of interest.
A tad cynical IMO.
Am I to assume the "some prepared to turn a blind eye" is a nudge in my ribs ?
I'm certainly not suggesting "Blind-eyeing" anything,and for sure,I am not defending anything on behalf of the NTA or anybody else.
Other than "Gettin on with it",what suggestions do you have at this 11th hour ?
Public disobdience....Industrial Action.....Increased Immigration Control ?
What we now have,is the culmination of 10 years of Direct Award contracts with the State Companies.
Direct Award Contracts,which remain available to the NTA going forward,and which I believe will play a role for many years to come.
Like it or not,the European Union's rules on State Owned entities having Dominance in their marketplace,are the rules we are having to play by.
Whilst there are many accounts of other EU States flouting these same regulations with regularity,Irelands proud history of EU membership has been one of compliance,even when the Rules were less than advantageous to us.
Suggesting that the main thrust of the NTA's Tendering Project is to facilitate the employment of large numbers of "foreigners",in order to cast out the native Irish Busdriving population,just does not sound like a rational 21st Century arguement against the Bus Market Opening project.
I feel that pursuing that line,leaves one open to be slapped down in double quick time,and made look like a bucktoothed backwoodsman.
What we now have,finally is the arrival of a totally new operational situation,which is open to the most investigative scrutiny.
You suggest that the BMO project "has to work",which for those passengers relying on it's routes is certainly true.
At the same time,the new post Maurice McCabe Ireland,has allowed for marked reduction in the ability of State Agencies to hide,fiddle with or ignore many elements which were traditionally so treated.
Indeed,never has the general public or involved persons,had greater ability to bring and hold to account,those at the helm.
If anybody truly believes that the NTA has a "Conflict of Interest" in the BMO,then the ability to bring this to the fore remains wide open,however as yet,I have not seen much grá for taking up this cudgel.
Public Transport in the Greater Dublin Area has never had a greater opportunity to break free from the lack of vision,which has traditionally held it down,and contributed to the dominance of private transport in a manner impossible to rationally justify.
Under the 2014 BAC/NTA/DoT agreement,there are guarantees of no job losses,maintainance of terms & conditions,and expansion of the existing network,all of which were freely entered into and therefore challengable by either side if not abided by.
Those,for me,are the positives.
By far and away the greatest Negative in the entire production,is the absence of any information on the progress (or lack of) being made between the NTA and BAC.
This lack of information,graphically illustrated by the Cllr Noel Rock route 40L "announcement",is causing frustration,suspicion and provides a fertile breeding ground for all manner of wild eyed crazyness,to the extent of dangerously lowering morale,at a time when demand for Public Bus Transport is increasing rapidly.
Anyway,back to the conflict of interest....how are we going to address it ?....assuming we can prove it Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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It is not meant as a nudge in anyone's ribs in particular, Alek - apologies if it came across that way.
If anything you are recognising and highlighting some of the issues with the relationship - the lack of contract/details of how they won the tender. These should be absolutely enormous concerns about the transparency of the process. The sort of lack of transparency that if it was a direct award to DB would have the supporters of the tendering system up in arms.
But your analysis of just getting on with it because there's nothing else we can do at this advanced stage with the glaring problems you mention and vested interest in GA's success is a very sad indictment of the process.0 -
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