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The rise of fascism in the 21st Century

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    #32
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Pac1Man wrote: »
    Requiring a certain number of gender or ethnic representation in certain positions regardless of ability.

    Which, in itself is racism/sexism really.


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    #33
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Try_harder wrote: »
    Who is we?

    I don't want that. Alphamale leaders//? Do they protect the incels?

    It's a windup dude. Written for comedy value.
    I must admit he had me till alpha males.


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    #34
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    It's a windup dude. Written for comedy value.

    I'm not laughing.


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    #35
    hill16bhoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Strongman leaders, alphamales, that lead, that don't bow down, that don't apologize, that will protect the pack

    It's hard to do anything but laugh wryly when you read lines like this.

    One suspects there's a sort of repressed homo-eroticism beneath this kind of utter rot.


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    #36
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    hill16bhoy wrote: »
    It's hard to do anything but laugh wryly when you read lines like this.

    One suspects there's a sort of repressed homo-eroticism beneath this kind of utter rot.

    It's either very subtle comedy or a person desperately in need of a hug/shag/help.


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    #37
    mammajamma
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭mammajamma


    Try_harder wrote: »
    Who, what pushed too far left?

    When you don't "fit in" with society at large, and cannot/don't want to adapt, you seek out to change the society itself. A natural reaction.

    Therefore certain small but dedicated elements took hold within educational and media institutions. Fringe elements that would grow and seek to alter the majority to the requirements of the minority.

    It is perfectly clear that "the left" has entirely welded itself to the "minority". The only reason it has managed to last this long is due to its infiltration into, and vast over-representation within, media and education. Its lasted about as long as it could, and now its coming to an end.

    It has led a merry chase, sometimes even getting the majority to go along for the ride, but the inevitability of a tiny group trying to control a huge group is knocking on the door.


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    #38
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Try_harder wrote: »
    Who, what pushed too far left?

    Politicians, academia and media are full of very left wing people. They generally mean best, but their means are to belittle their opponents and try and stifle their freedom of expression.

    There are some left wing people that hate their country, society, and culture. Some far-left people are even racist or sexist. While these are a small minority, because of the polarization brought about by recent developments - particularly online - these people get put to the fore. The failing of the moderate left is to not treat these people of the far left with the same scrutiny and ridicule as they would those on the far-right. This has had an effect of further polarizing people of course.

    Take even the recent event with Paul Casey. Instead of debating whether or not the things he said had any merit, politicians and the media uniformly said that those sort of things should not be discussed, and anybody who agrees with him are lower class ignoramuses. The left is then surprised when there is a negative reaction to an intellectually bankrupt position such as this. 'Morally correct positions' trump evidence based arguments, but who is writing the rules on what's morally correct?

    Rather than attempt to win the center and right to their side, more recent tactics have involved shaming individuals (both public and private), boycotting them, blackmailing, and character assassination. The rule of law is seen as expendable, the general will is seen as an obstacle, and the end justifies any means. They might even say that everyone who doesn't agree with them is a fascist. OP.

    To answer your question.


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    #39
    1800_Ladladlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEwlLF5v1IQ


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    #40
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Be interesting to see what happens in Europe with Merkel on the way out. The right is on the rise for sure they haven't got in yet but they are closer than they have been since before WW2.

    Hopefully we will nip it in the butt in time but the only way to seriously do this is for people to move away from the edges and back to centre.

    What is the best way to shut up a loon ? You let then speak and dismantle their argument piece by piece respectfully with fact and let them hang themselves.

    What don't you do ? You don't try and shut them down, silence them or destroy their character if they are as bad as they are they will do it themselves.

    You also need to understand not everyone you disagree with is your enemy, they just have a different point of view to you. You will stop people moving to the extreme edges if their is conversation, understanding and compromise.

    Finally we need to move away from labeling and demonization of groups, throwing out labels only shuts down conversation and leaves people feeling frustrated and less willing to discuss.


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    #41
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    We wanted to stop immigration and they opened the doors.

    It is interesting to see that the AFD in Germany (the far-right) were collapsing in popularity before Angela Merkel made her infamous announcement that Germany would be accommodating a million and a half migrants. Since then, with the bombings, shootings, and rapes, that party has gone from strength to strength, all the while she has refused to see that she has done anything wrong. The fact that the SPD is determined to prop her up and cling onto power has also sealed their demise.
    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Strongman leaders, alphamales, that lead, that don't bow down, that don't apologize, that will protect the pack

    Strongmen aren't benevolent. They aren't looking out for the nation, they look to put themselves in positions of power. If their will to power threatens democracy, freedom of speech, or rule of law they shouldn't be blindly followed by sheep, but rigorously opposed.


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    #42
    manual_man
    Registered Users Posts: 15,262 ✭✭✭✭manual_man


    Totalitarianism is the threat. Shutting down opposing speech, making people afraid of "consequences" if they don't adopt the strict party line. Introduction of otherizing language in to the mainstream (think "white privilege") as a means to divide and conquer. Makes you wonder


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    #43
    PapaOscar
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭PapaOscar


    OP username checks out.


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    #44
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Aye, saw someone on Twitter earlier highlight the fact that someone mocked the chap who is now president of Brazil on TV a few years back and that's now why we have him as president of the place now.

    The worlds gone feckin mad lads


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    #45
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    manual_man wrote: »
    Totalitarianism is the threat. Shutting down opposing speech, making people afraid of "consequences" if they don't adopt the strict party line. Introduction of otherizing language in to the mainstream (think "white privilege") as a means to divide and conquer. Makes you wonder

    Yah it's crazy it goes beyond that just in the past 6 months a game developer called cdProjekt red has had employees doxxed because they made mistake on the social media account.

    First time it was a joke on did you assume my gender, not sure what it was the second time but the crime doesn't fit the punishment.


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    #46
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    In today's society if you don't conform or if you dare challenge the views of media and political parties it is very easy to be called a fascist.

    Almost a badge of honour these days.


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    #47
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    It's because the far-right is perhaps the only true political grouping still in existence. It's not "lefties" or "political correctness" that has created the vacuum the right are filling, but the bland, PR, focus group led, non-entities that have come to dominate politics since the Clinton/Blair era. You could swap Macron, Trudeau, Varadkar, Cameron, Renzi etc around and it would make zero difference-they are all just semi-sentient management types unwittingly serving the perpetual GDP growth demon.


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    #48
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,545 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    This is fascism OP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1btWFHjjqrs


    As distasteful the people you mention are they are not fascist.

    (Not sure about the Brazilian guy)


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    #49
    piplip87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭piplip87


    Here's my theory on the rise of the right.

    Some people may not agree with uncontrolled immigration, same sex marriage, they may also be fed up of all these sexualities, the toxic brand of feminism we see daily, They genuinely voice Thier concerns and are branded islamaphobic, homophobic, transphobic, mysogist amoung other names.

    These people feeling silenced start to listen to people like Tommy Robinson, now he is an intelligent man who sucks people into supporting him but then he is silenced, him and his followers and people who may not agree with everything he says are pushed further to the right.

    To defeat the rise of the far right we need to let them speak be taken on in debates in public. Genuine concerns of people who do not share the leftist narritive must be listened to.


    Stop silencing people who may have different views from the SJWs in this world and they will not need to drift to the right.


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    #50
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    This is fascism OP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1btWFHjjqrs


    As distasteful the people you mention are they are not fascist.

    (Not sure about the Brazilian guy)

    I said leading to fascism. Putin certainly displays traits of fascism, as does trump and farage to a lesser extent


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    #51
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    piplip87 wrote: »
    Here's my theory on the rise of the right.

    Some people may not agree with uncontrolled immigration, same sex marriage, they may also be fed up of all these sexualities, the toxic brand of feminism we see daily, They genuinely voice Thier concerns and are branded islamaphobic, homophobic, transphobic, mysogist amoung other names.

    These people feeling silenced start to listen to people like Tommy Robinson, now he is an intelligent man who sucks people into supporting him but then he is silenced, him and his followers and people who may not agree with everything he says are pushed further to the right.

    To defeat the rise of the far right we need to let them speak be taken on in debates in public. Genuine concerns of people who do not share the leftist narritive must be listened to.


    Stop silencing people who may have different views from the SJWs in this world and they will not need to drift to the right.

    Tommy Robinson was only silenced for breaking a court order. He has been given a lot of air time in the media and is omnipresent online


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    #52
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    The best Irish example is the small town in Roscommon that objected to the immigrants being housed in the local hotel.

    The residents were against it as they thought that it would be better for the town's survival to use the hotel as an actual hotel. They also didn't understand why they didn't use the old immigration centre that could have been fixed up for it.

    Instead of saying yes that's a great idea let's not put funds into private hotelier but invest in existing I'm migration centre the locals were branded as racists. After this happened we got lots and lots of soft good imnigrant stories shoved down our neck lest the racism catch on.


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    #53
    Goodshape
    Registered Users Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    Convince people there's a problem. Convince people the problem is caused by an other. Convince people you alone will stand up for them against the other.

    "The leftists"

    "The far right"


    Who actually are these groups?


    It's a fiction becoming a reality because people are buying into the stories.


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    #54
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    Richard Hillman wrote:
    We wanted to stop immigration and they opened the doors.
    We're a small economy with almost full employment, without immigration into Ireland we will face a very real skills shortage in the jobs market. If companies can't find the workers they need here they'll go somewhere else. What will happen to us then without all that FDI money?
    Richard Hillman wrote:
    We wanted to preserve our cultures and we had them eroded to suit our guests and the globalists.
    Who's culture has been eroded? Are they banning the GAA now? Our culture has been eroded for sure but not by guests and globalists, by generations of British strongman leaders (and Lizzy 1) and the apathy of our own people who can't be bothered with it.

    Richard Hillman wrote:
    It artificially went too far, we're going back to the way things were. They have their 2-3 decades in the sun and now we're heading back to how we've being doing things for millennia. Strongman leaders, alphamales, that lead, that don't bow down, that don't apologize, that will protect the pack

    Who is the we you're referring to in all this?
    Also who are these alpha male leaders you say we're returning to the days of, can you name an Irish leader of the past who fits that bill? Someone who protected the pack and not his own interests?


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    #55
    hill16bhoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    RandomName2 wrote: »

    Take even the recent event with Sean Casey. Instead of debating whether or not the things he said had any merit, politicians and the media uniformly said that those sort of things should not be discussed, and anybody who agrees with him are lower class ignoramuses. The left is then surprised when there is a negative reaction to an intellectually bankrupt position such as this. 'Morally correct positions' trump evidence based arguments, but who is writing the rules on what's morally correct?
    Peter Casey's comments were endlessly discussed and, sadly, completely set the agenda for the last week of the Presidential campaign plus the post mortem.

    The Travelling Community is Ireland's most marginalised group, ethnic or otherwise. There are precisely no people who dispute that the undoubted issues within the Travelling Community should be debated. What reasonable people say is that these issues can and should be debated without resorting to crude generalisations and vilification of that community.

    That's both the intellectually superior and morally superior position to take.

    Peter Casey did not attempt to do this whatsoever. He deliberately whipped up resentment and hatred against Travellers in order to get some cheap votes.

    That's intellectual bankruptcy for you.

    I haven't seen a single Casey supporter discuss or even acknowledge issues like why the rate of suicide among Travellers is seven times higher than among the settled community, or an acknowledgment that many employers (I've read as much as 70%) refuse to hire Travellers.

    We can guess why that is. It's likely because it would require a bit too much thinking.

    I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that those who found Casey's comments disgustingp, such as myself, portrayed Casey supporters as "lower class ignoramuses", given that Casey's support came primarily from the middle classes, not the lower classes in socio-economic terms, the lower classes preferring Michael D. Higgins. His comments were certainly not aimed at lower class people, given that he vilified those on welfare as well as Travellers, and seems to have a problem with most sorts of welfare in general.

    So there was definitely a lot of vilifying people as "lower class ignoramuses", except that pretty much all of it was coming from Peter Casey and those who supported him.

    I suppose in non-socio-economic terms, you could call Casey and his supporters "low class ignoramuses", alright, but those terms are clearly not what you had in mind when you made your comment.


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    #56
    hill16bhoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Most of Europe.


    We wanted to preserve our cultures and we had them eroded to suit our guests and the globalists.
    Are you suggesting that all non-Irish media should be banned?

    Maybe all non-Irish language media?

    How far are you willing to take your "preservation of culture" argument?

    Culture being formed from cross-pollination of ideas and all that.

    What is culture, anyway?

    You appear to think it is a fixed and unchanging thing, which I would suggest not only shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what it is, but a fundamental misunderstanding of human existence itself.


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    #57
    Sweetemotion
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Sweetemotion


    The only thing that is going to be on the rise in the 21st. Is the unemployment of third grade educated students.


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    #58
    1800_Ladladlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    Calhoun wrote: »
    What is the best way to shut up a loon ? You let then speak and dismantle their argument piece by piece respectfully with fact and let them hang themselves.

    What don't you do ? You don't try and shut them down, silence them or destroy their character if they are as bad as they are they will do it themselves.

    Lefties will have a hard time with this now ted.


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    #59
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    It is interesting to see that the AFD in Germany (the far-right) were collapsing in popularity before Angela Merkel made her infamous announcement that Germany would be accommodating a million and a half migrants. Since then, with the bombings, shootings, and rapes, that party has gone from strength to strength, all the while she has refused to see that she has done anything wrong. The fact that the SPD is determined to prop her up and cling onto power has also sealed their demise.

    They had some gains, but the left and the greens had more. Even the poor old FDP is back in again.

    Vorläufiges amtliches Endergebnis:
    CSU: 37,2 Prozent (85 Sitze)
    SPD: 9,7 Prozent (22 Sitze)
    Freie Wähler: 11,6 Prozent (27 Sitze)
    Grüne: 17,5 Prozent (38 Sitze)
    FDP: 5,1 Prozent (11 Sitze)
    AfD: 10,2 Prozent (22 Sitze)

    AfD has 10.2, but greens and freie Wähler had the most gains here, commanding 29.1% of the vote, that is a resounding success for the middle and the left. Three times as many voters went green or freie Wähler than AfD. Very happy to be part of that very sizable block of voters.
    With the economy doing well and fewer migrants arriving compared to the peak of 2015/16.

    Hessen, AfD has a little more, but once again, greens the biggest winners here

    CDU: 27
    SPD: 19.8
    Grüne: 19.8
    Left 6.3
    FDP: 7.5
    AfD: 13.1

    There is no massive shift to the right. No right wing revolution. AfD is still a joke party for cranks and malcontents, whilst more serious middle and left leaning parties are the go-to solution for voters who want something different.
    Nobody is going into coalition with the AfD, they will have exactly zero power, all they will do is make a bit of noise on the sidelines.
    It was the same with the NPD before that. They got a few protest votes and then they sank without a trace.


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    #60
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Triceratops Ballet wrote: »
    We're a small economy with almost full employment, without immigration into Ireland we will face a very real skills shortage in the jobs market. If companies can't find the workers they need here they'll go somewhere else. What will happen to us then without all that FDI money?

    So are Indians/Bangledeshis/Pakistanis working in a petrol station or a convience store fulfilling a skills shortage or Nigerian taxi drivers or Brazilian rickshaw drivers all fulfilling skills shortage. Fact is our generous social welfare system is facilitating Irish people to sit on the dole while forgeiners work in unskilled jobs or go on the dole and claim benefits which they should not be entitled to.

    Most of the jobs forgeiners are doing could easily be done by the Irish. This could be done by either attracting immigrants to return or giving the jobs to Irish people who are not working. Come the next reccession immigrants will become a burden once again just like the last one.


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    #61
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    hill16bhoy wrote: »
    Peter Casey did not attempt to do this whatsoever. He deliberately whipped up resentment and hatred against Travellers

    For the umpteenth time;

    ''Everyone should be treated equally and the State should not discriminate against anybody.''

    -Peter Casey

    Such hatred.
    hill16bhoy wrote: »
    The Travelling Community is Ireland's most marginalised group, ethnic or otherwise.

    The Travelling Community has to send their children to school right the way through and not stigmatise legitimate education. That's an issue they need to tackle straight away.


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