The rise of fascism in the 21st Century

Try_harder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23X14HS4gLk

Following the election of a far right leader in Brazil, and Trump and Farage's behaviour, even boards displays it, is fascism on the rise, I say so.

Plumbthedepths

It amuses me to see people use terms, phrases and labels they clearly have no idea the meaning of...... Oh and considering the relaxed level of moderation in AH it's laughable to suggest this is a hotbed of Fascism.

Try_harder

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It amuses me to see people use terms, phrases and labels they clearly have no idea the meaning of...... Oh and considering the relaxed level of moderation in AH it's laughable to suggest this is a hotbed of Fascism.

It allows fascist views to be aired with little evidence required.

Richard Hillman

You know how actual fascism can get in through the door? When you describe everybody that isn't a socialist as "Far-Right" and overuse the word "fascist" to the extent that nobody pays attention to it.

Then you get a scenario like in Brazil where this guy actually could be a Fascist and nobody pays attention to the shrieking.


Anyway we'll see how it works out. It's a bit of Ying to the Yang of recent decades. Societies got way too liberal and "progressive". The pendulum is going back and will eventually level itself out

Try_harder

Richard Hillman wrote: »

. Societies got way too liberal and "progressive". The pendulum is going back and will eventually level itself out

Could you give me examples of a too liberal society?

What laws were too liberal?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Fascism has,as a basic tenant, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy. I'm not convinced the OP's examples meet that mark.

Try_harder

Dillon Stocky Butter wrote: »

Fascism has,as a basic tenant, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy. I'm not convinced the OP's examples meet that mark.

Can you not see this beginning to happen across the world, Putin meets your definition

Plumbthedepths

Try_harder wrote:

It allows fascist views to be aired with little evidence required.

I've read a few threads here recently where the words racist and bigot were thrown about. When the posters using these words were asked for examples of same...thumbleweed. Maybe you can provide a few examples of this fascist commentary?

Grayson

Richard Hillman wrote: »

You know how actual fascism can get in through the door? When you describe everybody that isn't a socialist as "Far-Right" and overuse the word "fascist" to the extent that nobody pays attention to it.

Then you get a scenario like in Brazil where this guy actually could be a Fascist and nobody pays attention to the shrieking.


Anyway we'll see how it works out. It's a bit of Ying to the Yang of recent decades. Societies got way too liberal and "progressive". The pendulum is going back and will eventually level itself out

To be fair you don't see people calling your average right winger far right or fascist. It's not like anyone's said that about Theresa May. There's a huge difference between her and yer man in Brazil.

Then again, even amongst right wingers who are extremists, fascist might not be that correct description.

Take these guys, https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/29/ku-klux-klan-incident-at-islamic-prayer-centre-newtownards-hate-say-belfast-police

they're not fascists but they would be racists/bigots.

We need a new name for it. It's definitely a populist phenomenon of our time, just as fascism was something specific to the 1920s/30s/40s.

Today, fascism is just a lazy catch-all word, largely because everything awful/extreme/far right is dismissed as "fascist" - it could just as easily be the far more enduring "imperialist" but understandably that might be a bit too close to the bone for English speakers in England so calling it "fascist" serves a convenient political deflection, too.

mammajamma

You an call it populism, fascism, authoritarianism, nationalism, whatever.

The only word that truly describes it is "revolt"

The next closest descriptor is "reaction".

People just have a seriously difficult time realising that idealism is an impossibility. That's why it is idealism. It can only pretend to exist in times of plenty.

The world at large is very rapidly learning that not only is idealism an unaffordable luxury that cant happen, it is an increasingly expensive and damaging ideology. We don't have plenty, and there are scarcer days ahead for jobs, health, stability, security. Rich are getting richer, poor poorer. A lot of people have nothing to share, and maybe not enough for themselves already. Its tribalism time, the protection of your group against growing adversity and competition.

The reaction of the world was always going to be this. And always has been. The winds of change are blowing and the childish outcries of some people aren't going to make one iota of difference.

Strap in.

Try_harder

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I've read a few threads here recently where the words racist and bigot were thrown about. When the posters using these words were asked for examples of same...thumbleweed. Maybe you can provide a few examples of this fascist commentary?

Must be recent, you only pegged this month

Try_harder

Try_harder wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23X14HS4gLk

Following the election of a far right leader in Brazil, and Trump and Farage's behaviour, even boards displays it, is fascism on the rise, I say so.

One must try harder.

Plumbthedepths

Try_harder wrote:

Must be recent, you only pegged this month

So no answer to my question, grand so.

relegated8

relegated8 wrote: »

1488

An astute observation, will you be staying for supper?

Try_harder

Deleted User wrote: »

One must try harder.

that's original

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Try_harder wrote: »

Can you not see this beginning to happen across the world, Putin meets your definition

Having lived in 8 decades, there's nothing brewing now that I haven't seen several times before. Indeed, I've lived through the real threat of fascism and worse. I see no reason for panic as yet.

Try_harder

Try_harder wrote: »

that's original

One must try one's best, under trying circumcisions.

Omackeral

Being critical of something these days is akin to being a Nazi in some circles. Questioning immigration policies and border control makes one a fascist according to some. Pointing out researched crime statistics equals bigotry. The words fascism, bigotry and racism are beginning to lose meaning these days.

Try_harder

Dillon Stocky Butter wrote: »

Having lived in 8 decades, there's nothing brewing now that I haven't seen several times before. Indeed, I've lived through the real threat of fascism and worse. I see no reason for panic as yet.

Not panic, but awareness and alertness, Putin's undermining of the EU because of the freedoms and liberties it gives its citizens. Trump and Farage using fascist iconography (the streams of people poster during brexit)

mammajamma

This pretty much sums it up. A person may be fooled by the inundation of media that everything is rosey, but many, many people without the luxury of mass media on their side, never liked the others ideas and never will.

Try_harder

Omackeral wrote: »

Being critical of something these days is akin to being a Nazi in some circles. Questioning immigration policies and border control makes one a fascist according to some. Pointing out researched crime statistics equals bigotry. The words fascism, bigotry and racism are beginning to lose meaning these days.

Correlation does not equal causation.

Pac1Man

You push too far left you'll get a right leaning reaction.

If there wasn't a recent push for unrealistic global inclusion while ignoring the obvious flaws that comes with that, everything would be grand.

Try_harder

Pac1Man wrote: »

You push too far left you'll get a right leaning reaction.

If there wasn't a recent push for unrealistic global inclusion while ignoring the obvious flaws that comes with that, everything would be grand.

Who, what pushed too far left?

Wibbs

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Oh and considering the relaxed level of moderation in AH...

Thank Christ. Yes that can lead to some daft shite being posted, but far better IMHO than the sometimes overzealous "moderation" of before. Let people talk I say. If they're talking shite on any matter, enough people will be along to point it out. It also reduces the risk of an echo chamber. Something that is gaining pace in the online world. In other discussion areas like Arsebook or Twatter or Dredit dissenting opinions are either down voted or never get invited into the mix in the first place. It's one reason why old style linear posting forums are in decline. They show more diverse opinions and sadly more and more folks seem to want to live in a bubble of what they believe. Consider this if you will: I have seen Boards and AH being described as too Left wing and too Right wing. That suggests it's more balanced over time than most places out there.

Try_harder wrote: »

It allows fascist views to be aired with little evidence required.

To be fair TH, it allows all views to be aired with little evidence required. Though that's another issue in online discourse of late, evidence is ignored if it undermines people's existing opinions and worldview. EG a while back on the subject of immigration from war torn Syria, another poster claimed with no evidence that local Middle Eastern states were pulling their weight in helping. I replied with a post, with evidence in the form of links from local reporters and the like on the ground that showed this was largely a nonsense. In some cases the very opposite was the case. Even after that, the original post got more thanks, because it seems "evidence" if it doesn't square with preexisting beliefs is ignored. The oul "Links or GTFO" is also in decline.

hill16bhoy

Franklin D. Roosevelt said this in 1938.

"Unhappy events abroad have retaught us two simple truths about the liberty of a democratic people. The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is fascism — ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any other controlling private power."

I think it's unarguable that many places have already passed this rubicon, and it's even arguable that Ireland meets this definition.

Umberto Eco lists 14 characteristics of fascism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Umberto_Eco

It really is pretty astonishing how many Trump embodies.

Omackeral

Try_harder wrote: »

Correlation does not equal causation.

Riiiiiiight. Well listen, if there are fascists running around on boards I'd suggest you report them. Actually, link their posts to me and I'll report them myself. If there's any out there in real life (real ones now), you should inform the Gardai.

Some would have you believe we're living in an some alt-right dystopia. We really are not. We're about as moderate as you can get over here but just that seems to spurn on certain types to cry out even more. I'd love to see them to go to actual racist or fascist societies and try it. Maybe picket a Saudi embassy or something...

Omackeral

Wibbs wrote: »

Arsebook or Twatter or Dredit

Does that make this Boreds?

Richard Hillman

Try_harder wrote: »

Could you give me examples of a too liberal society?

What laws were too liberal?

Most of Europe.

We wanted to stop immigration and they opened the doors.

We wanted law and order and we ended up with the police being afraid of losing their jobs and courts trying to "reform" as opposed to punish.

We wanted welfare reform and ended up with generations of people unable to provide for themselves

We wanted to preserve our cultures and we had them eroded to suit our guests and the globalists.


Then there is all this nonsense about so called "Hate speech", LBGTXYZ issues, "Diversity", imaginary wage gaps, OTT human rights, EU/UN interference in national issues etc.

It artificially went too far, we're going back to the way things were. They have their 2-3 decades in the sun and now we're heading back to how we've being doing things for millennia. Strongman leaders, alphamales, that lead, that don't bow down, that don't apologize, that will protect the pack

Try_harder

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Most of Europe.

We wanted to stop immigration and they opened the doors.

We wanted law and order and we ended up with the police being afraid of losing their jobs and courts trying to "reform" as opposed to punish.

We wanted welfare reform and ended up with generations of people unable to provide for themselves

We wanted to preserve our cultures and we had them eroded to suit our guests and the globalists.


Then there is all this nonsense about so called "Hate speech", LBGTXYZ issues, "Diversity", imaginary wage gaps, OTT human rights, EU/UN interference in national issues etc.

It artificially went too far, we're going back to the way things were. They have their 2-3 decades in the sun and now we're heading back to how we've being doing things for millennia. Strongman leaders, alphamales, that lead, that don't bow down, that don't apologize, that will protect the pack

Who is we?

I don't want that. Alphamale leaders//? Do they protect the incels?

Pac1Man

Try_harder wrote: »

Who, what pushed too far left?

Everyone did.

Trial by Twitter

27 genders and their associated pronouns.

Requiring a certain number of gender or ethnic representation in certain positions regardless of ability.

The bandwagon jumping during the #metoo movement.

Mass immigration across Europe without consideration.

The enabling of 'white privilege' and similar phrases throughout mainstream media without reason.