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Isn't eternal life just as bad as eternal death?

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    #32
    jobeenfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭jobeenfitz


    DarkDusk wrote: »
    Well, first of all, you don't have to fear having to deal with seeing black space for eternity. The reason - you cannot experience nothing. So, if there is nothing on the other side, you will not experience it - EXACTLY like the time before you were born. Do you remember the 1890s? Of course you don't, you can't experience not being alive.

    Are you sure you cant experience not being alive without remembering? Just asking cos I havn't a clue.


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    #33
    DarkDusk
    Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭DarkDusk


    jobeenfitz wrote: »
    Are you sure you cant experience not being alive without remembering? Just asking cos I havn't a clue.

    Well, your brain is what holds memories, when you die, your brain loses all function and dies also. So you shouldn't have memory after death then. That's my understanding using simple biology and science.


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    #34
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You can't say with confidence that some form of God does or does not exist.
    Yes I can.
    There is absolutely no definitive proof of any form of higher being.

    Show me evidence of any one of the hundreds of supreme beings who supposedly created this place, and I'll completely debunk it.

    Show me one of these Gods in person and I'll shake its hand. Or noodly appendage.


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    #35
    seb65
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭seb65


    Terry wrote: »
    Yes I can.
    There is absolutely no definitive proof of any form of higher being.

    Show me evidence of any one of the hundreds of supreme beings who supposedly created this place, and I'll completely debunk it.

    Show me one of these Gods in person and I'll shake its hand. Or noodly appendage.

    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    Personally, I believe there is much to life that we cannot comprehend within the confines of our limited perspectives. We only know time and space as they are relative to our human existence.


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    #36
    DarkDusk
    Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭DarkDusk


    Terry wrote: »
    Yes I can.
    There is absolutely no definitive proof of any form of higher being.

    Show me evidence of any one of the hundreds of supreme beings who supposedly created this place, and I'll completely debunk it.

    Show me one of these Gods in person and I'll shake its hand. Or noodly appendage.

    Exactly.

    I think time has moved on. Most young people do not have any interest in religion or believe in god. This is a trend that will continue to become more clear as time moves on. Religion and god are excuse for human ignorance. Centuries ago, humans didn't know how the Sun was formed and how earthquakes were caused. Those people said that "god did it" and left it to the side.

    Religion kills curiosity, which is essential for human evolution. Imagine if the first man to discover fire was told not to play with the forces of nature because it goes against god's creation. People need to abandon religion and their belief in god, open their minds and live the way humans were supposed to live - in awe and curiosity of our planet and universe. Religion merely makes you accept god did it and then forget about it.

    Appreciate nature, animals, people and the universe - that is my god.

    Now this is god: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-thbwfGLkcO8/TYhKueB-ooI/AAAAAAAAAQM/VNqETBskLCM/s1600/nasa_orion_nebula-other.jpg


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    #37
    DarkDusk
    Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭DarkDusk


    seb65 wrote: »
    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    Personally, I believe there is much to life that we cannot comprehend within the confines of our limited perspectives. We only know time and space as they are relative to our human existence.

    Are you associated with any religion?


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    #38
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    seb65 wrote: »
    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    Personally, I believe there is much to life that we cannot comprehend within the confines of our limited perspectives. We only know time and space as they are relative to our human existence.

    "Just because you can't see it doesnt mean it isnt there" is a pretty weak argument when it comes to higher powers in fairness. Is the universe, time, reality etc so beyond our understanding that maybe there is a creator some sort of original creator? doubtful but possible, is he someone who doesnt like gay people? not bloody likely.


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    #39
    DarkDusk
    Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭DarkDusk


    krudler wrote: »
    is he someone who doesnt like gay people? not bloody likely.

    Precisely, which is why religion is evil. I'd like anyone to prove me otherwise.









    Here they come......


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    #40
    Jimmy 5F
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 122 ✭✭Jimmy 5F


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    Hmm nope, I'm pretty sure it would be awesome to live forever, explore the expanding universe and watch civilizations rise and fall.

    Why do assume you'll have a good view, maybe the rest of the dead people will be blocking it.


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    #41
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    Hercule Poirot wrote: »
    I think it was Jean-Paul Sartre who said: 'Hell is being trapped for eternity in a room with all your friends'

    Hell would be trapped in a small room with Jedward, a coffee machine and bags of sweets.


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    #42
    seb65
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭seb65


    DarkDusk wrote: »
    Are you associated with any religion?

    Born into a religion like everyone else, yes.

    Worshipper of religious dogma, no. Didn't even get married in a church.

    Believer that the truth of the universe is beyond the scope of my mere human mind, yes.


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    #43
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    I go from being completely relaxed about the notion to sometimes being completely panicked about it.part of me thinks;don't waste time thinking about it,you are already in existence so now you're just along for the ride and don't worry about the inevitable.the other part if me thinks well some day you might know you are going to die,you will feel terror and will go into an isolated state of consciousness by yourself that you cannot get out of forever!


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    #44
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    Jitterbug Perfume.


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    #45
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    I obsessed about this **** when I was a kid and got it done with... today I don't think about it, and am better for it... there are some concepts which we will never truly understand, and I'm ok with that.


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    #46
    Daveysil15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Daveysil15


    Imagine getting 72 virgins when you die. You ride them all but then they wouldn't be virgins anymore. What do you do then?

    As Billy Connolly said, "Give me 2 fire breathing whores anyday."


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    #47
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    The god that took six days to create the earth, took umbrage at someone eating an apple, destroyed Sodom because he didn't like what he created and contrived a situation where his son had to die is such a petty idea when the vastness of the universe is considered.

    Thankfully there's zero chance of living forever.


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    #48
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Daveysil15 wrote: »
    Imagine getting 72 virgins when you die. You ride them all but then they wouldn't be virgins anymore. What do you do then?

    As Billy Connolly said, "Give me 2 fire breathing whores anyday."

    Also, imagine if their periods all aligned... all 72 of them :D


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    #49
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    smcgiff wrote: »
    The god that took six days to create the earth, took umbrage at someone eating an apple, destroyed Sodom because he didn't like what he created and contrived a situation where his son had to die is such a petty idea when the vastness of the universe is considered.

    Thankfully there's zero chance of living forever.

    Don't forget he also created the sun on the fourth day of creation, quite how four days had passed without a sun is beyond me though


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    #50
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    krudler wrote: »
    Don't forget he also created the sun on the fourth day of creation, quite how four days had passed without a sun is beyond me though


    I was going to say he can see in the dark. :)

    But I get you - as we measure days by reference to the sun the time before the sun would have no reference point, and therefore no meaning.

    Word of god? I'd rather take the word of a used car salesman.


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    #51
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    What's bad about eternal death?
    I'm kind of looking forward to that, thank you very much?


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    #52
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Shenshen wrote: »
    What's bad about eternal death?
    I'm kind of looking forward to that, thank you very much?

    What in particular?


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    #53
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    smcgiff wrote: »
    What in particular?

    The "eternal death" bit. Ceasing to exist.
    Mind you, I'm in no rush, but there is some comfort in knowing that at the end, you just die and disappear. I like that thought.


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    #54
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Shenshen wrote: »
    The "eternal death" bit. Ceasing to exist.
    Mind you, I'm in no rush, but there is some comfort in knowing that at the end, you just die and disappear. I like that thought.

    It's not as if you'd notice it, what being, dead.

    Do you spend much time contemplating your experiences for the billions of years before you were born?


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    #55
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    smcgiff wrote: »
    It's not as if you'd notice it, what being, dead.

    Do you spend much time contemplating your experiences for the billions of years before you were born?

    Nope.

    I don't have to notice it, that's the beauty of it. I won't notice anything - I won't exist. :)


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    #56
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Nope.

    I don't have to notice it, that's the beauty of it. I won't notice anything - I won't exist. :)


    Whereas if you lived forever it would become tedious after the odd billion years or so (which is a blink of an eye eternity wise).

    The only way it wouldn't be tedious is if you didn't function as you do now. But, then it wouldn't be you.


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    #57
    Sinfonia
    Registered Users Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭Sinfonia


    mangochavez wrote: »
    What if there was an afterlife somewhere... maybe it was a peaceful place full of light and joy but... then what?

    Would we live and grow old like now or... would we be young and healthy forever without any problems? It sounds great at first but... try to imagine living like that for a million, billion, trillion...

    trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion years.

    And then after that... living the same number of years after that... forever.

    I like life and I don't want to die because I fear it but... I think when I experience something I want an ending even though I am irrational and sometimes want to keep living.

    So if there is an afterlife how will life be different than now?
    Literally the cause of my panic attacks since circa '03!
    Closing thread immediately now, bai.


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    #58
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    I was actually thinking about this this morning, the whole idea of "heaven" and eternal happiness and all that. The fundamental problem I have with the concept is that to appreciate happiness, we must also experience sadness....
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You can't say with confidence that some form of God does or does not exist.
    seb65 wrote: »
    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    Actually you're both wrong. There is no evidence of a divine power of any sort whatsoever. Therefore I can state with confidence that it does not exist. If you want to refute it, the onus is on the person claiming that something exists to provide the evidence for it.

    For example, prove to me that the sky is not composed of invisible blue elephants. Impossible task - which is why the onus is on the person making the claim of existence to prove it, rather than the person refuting the existence to disprove the existence of something for which there is no evidence.

    Simples.

    If you want to actually know about the universe, there's a handy FAQ here:
    http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html#bestfit

    We know what happened in the universe as far back as 10^-37 seconds after the big bang. We know that dark energy and dark matter exist, even though we don't yet understand them fully.

    We're getting towards understanding the universe completely. Not there yet, but no evidence to suggest that we won't get there (unless we blow up the planet first...).


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    #59
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Terry wrote: »
    Yes I can.
    There is absolutely no definitive proof of any form of higher being.

    Show me evidence of any one of the hundreds of supreme beings who supposedly created this place, and I'll completely debunk it.

    Show me one of these Gods in person and I'll shake its hand. Or noodly appendage.
    An absence of evidence is not proof. And "debunking" known religions is not proof that some form of God exists. If you want to pretend to be all scientific at least think about what you're saying. :rolleyes:

    No one can say for certain that some form of higher power doesn't exist, no one. Because the truth is we just don't know.


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    #60
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    An absence of evidence is not proof. And "debunking" known religions is not proof that some form of God exists. If you want to pretend to be all scientific at least think about what you're saying. :rolleyes:

    Actually he is being all scientific. The onus is on the person making a claim for the existence of something to prove that it exists. Until such a point as there is overwhelming evidence in their favour, the scientific method is that the claim is unsupported and the status quo is maintained - in this instance, that there is no evidence that a god exists.


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    #61
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    miss no stars wrote: »
    Actually he is being all scientific. The onus is on the person making a claim for the existence of something to prove that it exists. Until such a point as there is overwhelming evidence in their favour, the scientific method is that the claim is unsupported and the status quo is maintained - in this instance, that there is no evidence that a god exists.
    That's actually not true. I'm saying we don't know. He is saying he 100% knows and doesn't doubt his supposed knowledge.

    The onus is on the person making the statement to provide the evidence. In this case that no form of greater intelligence exists.


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