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Isn't eternal life just as bad as eternal death?

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    #62
    copeyhagen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,528 ✭✭✭copeyhagen


    the only thing worse than death, is believing in an afterlife.

    when you die, thats it. your buried in the ground and you become worm food.

    the end.


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    #63
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That's actually not true. I'm saying we don't know. He is saying he 100% knows and doesn't doubt his supposed knowledge.

    The onus is on the person making the statement to provide the evidence. In this case that no form of greater intelligence exists.

    Was that what you asked the person who once revealed to you that Santa doesn't exist?


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    #64
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That's actually not true. I'm saying we don't know. He is saying he 100% knows and doesn't doubt his supposed knowledge.

    The onus is on the person making the statement to provide the evidence. In this case that no form of greater intelligence exists.

    No. You're missing the point completely. There is such a thing as the scientific method, in which you appear to be completely unversed.

    I'll elaborate.

    Current status: No proof of the existence of a god.

    Claim: God exists.

    Onus: on the person making the claim to gather enough evidence to support their claim.

    It works in positives - you PROVE something. You don't prove non-existence, or in other words, disprove existence of something that hasn't yet been proven to exist!


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    #65
    darlett
    Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭darlett


    If they have the internet there, it'll not be that bad.


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    #66
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    miss no stars wrote: »
    No. You're missing the point completely. There is such a thing as the scientific method, in which you appear to be completely unversed.

    I'll elaborate.

    Current status: No proof of the existence of a god.

    Claim: God exists.

    Onus: on the person making the claim to gather enough evidence to support their claim.

    It works in positives - you PROVE something. You don't prove non-existence, or in other words, disprove existence of something that hasn't yet been proven to exist!
    The current status is that some form of God might exist because it hasn't been proven otherwise. Certainly no one can say, without proof of evidence that no form of God exists because they just don't know.

    I don't know either but I admit that fact.


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    #67
    y0pperz
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭y0pperz


    The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the Third Age by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long past, a wind rose. The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.


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    #68
    RexHamilton
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭RexHamilton


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    The current status is that some form of God might exist because it hasn't been proven otherwise. Certainly no one can say, without proof of evidence that no form of God exists because they just don't know.

    I don't know either but I admit that fact.

    On that basis The current status is that Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, Spiderman, Batman and Iron Man all might exist.

    Yes, we know them as fictional characters and there is no evidence that they actually exist, but by your logic you can't actually prove they don't exist. I mean, we have had no sightings of them, but maybe they don't want to be found. They could all actually be living together, in Josef Fritzl's dungeon.


    To elaborate, the current status is that there is no proof of god's existence as was said earlier, therefore there is no reason to believe in it's existence. Belief and faith are not evidence so the current "might" doesn't come into it.


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    #69
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    The current status is that some form of God might exist.

    No it's not. The current status is that there is no evidence for any form of god and so it does not exist.


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    #70
    DB Cooper 23
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭DB Cooper 23


    There are time's when I think about this and the idea of living forever and it sends me into a panic attack. It's the only thing that causes them for me. I can't comprehend the idea of living forever. I try not to think about it that much anymore - it doesn't help to dwell on it. We can't change what will happen one way or the other


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    #71
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    RexHamilton wrote: »
    On that basis The current status is that Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, Spiderman, Batman and Iron Man all might exist.

    Yes, we know them as fictional characters and there is no evidence that they actually exist, but by your logic you can't actually prove they don't exist. I mean, we have had no sightings of them, but maybe they don't want to be found. They could all actually be living together, in Josef Fritzl's dungeon.
    FFS this is getting on my nerves. Yes we do have evidence all those characters don't exist.

    RexHamilton wrote: »
    To elaborate, the current status is that there is no proof of god's existence as was said earlier, therefore there is no reason to believe in it's existence. Belief and faith are not evidence so the current "might" doesn't come into it.
    There is no reason to believe in some God's existence but there is no reason to definitely say no sort of God exists at all. The only thing you can do is shrug your shoulders and get on with life. You'll be happier for it.


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    #72
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    miss no stars wrote: »
    No it's not. The current status is that there is no evidence for any form of god and so it does not exist.
    That's an enormous leap in logic.


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    #73
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    FFS this is getting on my nerves. Yes we do have evidence all those characters don't exist.



    Really?
    I'm curious, can you please present this evidence?


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    #74
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Really?
    I'm curious, can you please present this evidence?
    We know the guy who invented Iron man, those of us who have children know for definite Santa and the Tooth fairy don't exist.


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    #75
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    We know the guy who invented Iron man, those of us who have children know for definite Santa and the Tooth fairy don't exist.

    Invented? How do you know it was an invention, he could have met the fellow and decided to share his adventures.

    As for having children, just because you don't believe in the tooth fairy and Santa and therefore have to play their role doesn't mean that they don't exist. They might just avoid your house because you refuse to believe in them?


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    #76
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Really?
    I'm curious, can you please present this evidence?


    Yeah - I read book, okay more like a magazine. It described how he was born, communicated with his father in a mysterious way and he came to earth to save us.

    Superman be his name.


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    #77
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That's an enormous leap in logic.

    No. The enormous leap in logic is to say that there's no evidence but it still exists.


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    #78
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    miss no stars wrote: »
    No. The enormous leap in logic is to say that there's no evidence but it still exists.
    Might still exist.


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    #79
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    miss no stars wrote: »
    No. The enormous leap in logic is to say that there's no evidence but it still exists.

    Well, to be fair, it's possible.
    Anything is possible, after all.

    It's just very, very improbable. To the point of being utterly negligable as a concept, same as super heros, Santa and Russell's tea pot.


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    #80
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Might still exist.

    At the moment: Zero evidence despite how advanced human knowledge has become - doesn't exist.

    IF a small amount of evidence should come around that may indicate existence of a god, then we would say might.

    But at the moment, there's nothing. Despite the efforts of many, there is no evidence whatsoever... So we say that it doesn't exist.


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    #81
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Actually, I'm rather looking forward to it. ;)



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    #82
    seb65
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭seb65


    miss no stars wrote: »
    Actually he is being all scientific. The onus is on the person making a claim for the existence of something to prove that it exists. Until such a point as there is overwhelming evidence in their favour, the scientific method is that the claim is unsupported and the status quo is maintained - in this instance, that there is no evidence that a god exists.

    Well there's NDEs and pre-birth experiences. Look up stories from hospice nurses who've sat with a number of people at their time of death.

    These are all anecdotal of course and I admit that. However, so were the stories of the first explorers who saw lands with strange peoples and viola. There are many things that exist that we cannot see, such as brain waves. We only have evidence of them because we've figured out how to measure them. Maybe we're just not there yet on the afterlife.

    Some scientists hypothesise that our brains are in a quantum state and our subjective experiences and knowledge are stored in the brain's micro tubules. When we die, our brains lose this quantum state and our "self" is released into the atmosphere.

    Who knows. I just believe it's human arrogance to believe we have the universe figured out.


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    #83
    IM0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    dying is alot like sleeping, its only when you wake up you realise that you were asleep. and if its one thing that doesnt happen after you have been dead for years is that you wake up.

    there is nothing to fear other than the last moments when you take your last breath [which no one will have experienced in their life before and will be so painfull your mind cant comprehend now, its going to happen to us all its just a matter of when] to when you pass the point of no return, after that its just like sleeping forever basically everyone else will know you are dead but you never will.

    you could also turn that on its head and say maybe this is the afterlife :eek:

    and like someone said before our lives have been 'flashing' in slow motion before us in real time :eek::eek:

    :(:(

    :mad::mad:

    :cool:

    :eek:

    :pac:



    :cool:


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    #84
    RexHamilton
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭RexHamilton


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    We know the guy who invented Iron man, those of us who have children know for definite Santa and the Tooth fairy don't exist.


    Prove it. This is your logic. Just because the tooth fairy doesn't come to your house to give your children money for teeth isn't evidence that she doesn't exist. (I don't know why, but I assume she's a lady).

    We know that Iron man is a character written about in a book. We know the same about god. We know no more about either.


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    #85
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Nobody here alive today has died for a significant time and has come back.Its idiotic to declare that there is or isn't an afterlife,therefore I ponder but don't convict anybody elses belief.


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    #86
    IM0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Whereas if you lived forever it would become tedious after the odd billion years or so (which is a blink of an eye eternity wise).

    The only way it wouldn't be tedious is if you didn't function as you do now. But, then it wouldn't be you.

    listen dude life is about shagging, nothing else. blunt but true, thats what it all boils down to. we are like robots to carry our genes to another generation end of. having to do that forever? nah |Ill pass along with all the crap that goes with it


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    #87
    RexHamilton
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭RexHamilton


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    Nobody here alive today has died for a significant time and has come back.Its idiotic to declare that there is or isn't an afterlife,therefore I ponder but don't convict anybody elses belief.


    It's not idiotic to say that you don't believe in an afterlife though as there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. Nobody has ever been to furthest reaches of the Universe either but if I said that their might be a planet, billions of light years away, full of only Playboy models in their prime, who are staunchly against clothes and we are flown there by a super sonic pterodactyl with the voice of Leonard Nemoy after we die, then i'd be declared idiotic and insane. There is however, as much evidence for this as there is for any other afterlife.


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    #88
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    RexHamilton wrote: »
    It's not idiotic to say that you don't believe in an afterlife though as there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. Nobody has ever been to furthest reaches of the Universe either but if I said that their might be a planet, billions of light years away, full of only Playboy models in their prime, who are staunchly against clothes and we are flown there by a super sonic pterodactyl with the voice of Leonard Nemoy after we die, then i'd be declared idiotic and insane. There is however, as much evidence for this as there is for any other afterlife.

    the possibility of an after life is just as likely as no after life,its 50\50,nobody knows for definite either way so it is impossible to declare it either way.


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    #89
    IM0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    miss no stars wrote: »
    At the moment: Zero evidence despite how advanced human knowledge has become - doesn't exist.

    IF a small amount of evidence should come around that may indicate existence of a god, then we would say might.

    But at the moment, there's nothing. Despite the efforts of many, there is no evidence whatsoever... So we say that it doesn't exist.

    youre full of ****, all we can say about gods is we dont know, and that is coming from a militant atheist btw, well not militant actually that seems to be your crown! - definate atheist though, but not a delusional one, nothing can be said for certain one way or the other and to think otherwise is basically arrogant and delusional

    beliefs can or never will be proven, thats what makes them beliefs, its a faith.

    science is another crock of **** in ways, its a constant paradime, it doesnt KNOW [anything 100%] **** all either but it throws up some good stuff every now and again so in the round we decide its worth all the ****e it throws around so we get to the nuggets which are actually usefull


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    #90
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    IM0 wrote: »
    youre full of ****, all we can say about gods is we dont know, and that is coming from a militant atheist btw, well not militant actually that seems to be your crown! - definate atheist though, but not a delusional one, nothing can be said for certain one way or the other and to think otherwise is basically arrogant and delusional

    beliefs can or never will be proven, thats what makes them beliefs, its a faith.

    I'm not talking from an atheist standpoint; I'm talking from a scientific standpoint. Which is that there is no evidence therefore the probability of it existing is so small as to be negligibile.

    And what ever happened to attack the post, not the poster?


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    #91
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    the possibility of an after life is just as likely as no after life,its 50\50,nobody knows for definite either way so it is impossible to declare it either way.

    A bit like claiming the possibilty of god is 50/50, or the existence of Iron Man.

    In total absence of evidence, it's only reasonable to assume absence of existence.


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