'Think Positively'

16-09-2019 11:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You seem to be an authority on the subject, my old man has terminal cancer & yet I don't seek to score cheap points on an internet forum at the expense of others.

I'm not trying to score cheap points. I lost my mother to cancer last year. I'm very sorry your dad is ill, and I'm sorry for all you're going through, and for all he's going through. It's a horrible disease, but my view is that terminal patients have enough to deal with without being told to be battlers or to fight; it's hard enough.

I'd ask you to remove that last sentence, as it's not for AH.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 16-09-2019 11:23pm

Candie wrote: »

The peculiar language of cancer is the language of winners and losers, people who fight brave battles and win, and those who lose their fight - presumably not having fought hard or bravely enough. It's a disease, not a lack of fortitude or a triumph of positive thinking depending on the outcome. It says nothing about the character of the sufferer but people seem to insist on using that terminology.

I'm sorry people are so breathtakingly insensitive, it's mind-boggling.

I know, I’ve spent over four years peering up at the guillotine blade from the blocks. This week, I’m fielding phone calls about a brain MRI to see of it has spread there. My husband holds down a stressful job and tries to put one foot in front of the other, knowing he’ll be spat out on the dating scene again soon enough and with nothing material to show for a nearly decade-long relationship (that kills me but who thinks about life insurance at 30?). My parents, after a working life fraught with money worries, are starting their well-earned retirement knowing that they’ll be burying a child in the next few years. We all know the outcome. This won’t be fixed and we all know that and we all plod along anyway and manage to have plenty of good times. I don’t think we’re losers, I think we’re all winners.

The fight language is controversial. Some cancer patients love it... but they tend to be early stage with some hope of recovery. Many of them later regret it if the cancer returns. BUT then some terminal patients like the fight terminology because as far as they are concerned, they fight every single day to stay engaged with the wider world and retain their identity. I can understand all the different viewpoints.

cj maxx · 16-09-2019 11:23pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts , I'm sorry about your diagnosis. I genuinely feel sad about a poster on an anonymous web site .
Anyway that's all

16-09-2019 11:25pm

Candie wrote: »

I'm not trying to score cheap points. I lost my mother to cancer last year. I'm very sorry your dad is ill, and I'm sorry for all you're going through, and for all he's going through. It's a horrible disease, but my view is that terminal patients have enough to deal with without being told to be battlers or to fight; it's hard enough.

I'd ask you to remove that last sentence, as it's not for AH.

You're right Candie, you have a heart of gold. The scourge of petty individuals running four accounts simultaneously has undermined my faith in this site. It might be time to stop. They can revel in their pyrrhic victories, like an incontinent individual saluting brief respite away from the jacks.

Noveight · 16-09-2019 11:40pm

Only recently I met a colleague in the hall just before the day began. I gave him the usual "Well, how's it going?" and he replied "Attack the day, boyo!" which I haven't forgotten since.

Attack the day, a bit less clichéd than that Carpe Diem carry on :P

16-09-2019 11:45pm

Candie wrote: »

I'm not trying to score cheap points. I lost my mother to cancer last year. I'm very sorry your dad is ill, and I'm sorry for all you're going through, and for all he's going through. It's a horrible disease, but my view is that terminal patients have enough to deal with without being told to be battlers or to fight; it's hard enough.

I'd ask you to remove that last sentence, as it's not for AH.

I regret it all Candie, you deserve much better than this. Hammered in the local, looking for a reason justifying existence and a simplified answer isn't forthcoming. Life offers a tantalising glimpse of happiness, before withdrawing the privilege.

16-09-2019 11:51pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I regret it all Candie, you deserve much better than this. Hammered in the local, looking for a reason justifying existence and a simplified answer isn't forthcoming. Life offers a tantalising glimpse of happiness, before withdrawing the privilege.

A bag of chips and a spiceburger might help take your mind off it. Look on the bright side.... You’re unlikely to choke on it.

PS: Enjoy whatever moments you can with your Da.

16-09-2019 11:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I regret it all Candie, you deserve much better than this. Hammered in the local, looking for a reason for existence and a simplified answer isn't forthcoming. Life offers a tantalising glimpse of happiness, before withdrawing the privilege.

Don't worry Bertie, anyone who's lost anyone knows how you feel and how hard it is when you feel helpless and useless.The more you love, the more you hurt. I believe for most of us the pain is worth the special gift of having been loved by them, and having the gift of loving them back. It does sound glib, but it comes to us all. I've lost three family members in the last decade, and I'm grateful for every moment I had with them, it's worth the pain. You'll get through this, it's part of being human and that's what humans do; they get through it and carry on. And so will you, and there will be happiness again, and it'll all be worth it.

If you could remove the reference in that post, I'd be grateful.

16-09-2019 11:58pm

Candie wrote: »

Don't worry Bertie, anyone who's lost anyone knows how you feel and how hard it is when you feel helpless and useless.The more you love, the more you hurt. I believe for most of us the pain is worth the special gift of having been loved by them, and having the gift of loving them back. It does sound glib, but it comes to us all. I've lost three family members in the last decade, and I'm grateful for every moment I had with them, it's worth the pain. You'll get through this, it's part of being human and that's what humans do; they get through it and carry on. And so will you, and there will be happiness again, and it'll all be worth it.

If you could remove the reference in that post, I'd be grateful.

Done, appreciate your input. Your empathy has no bounds, a delightful counterpoint to the sociopathic chancers with multiple accounts.

Wayne Jarvis · 17-09-2019 12:00am

Deleted User wrote: »

The scourge of petty individuals running four accounts simultaneously has undermined my faith in this site. It might be time to stop. They can revel in their pyrrhic victories, like an incontinent individual saluting brief respite away from the jacks.

Bertie have you considered using the ignore function for this/these poster(s)? Is it worth it to you (or them for that matter) to engage with each other so often?

17-09-2019 12:02am

JayZeus wrote: »

A bag of chips and a spiceburger might help take your mind off it. Look on the bright side.... You’re unlikely to choke on it.

PS: Enjoy whatever moments you can with your Da.

Appreciate your thoughts, for a man as bracingly direct as I am. Much respect.

17-09-2019 12:05am

Deleted User wrote: »

Done, appreciate your input. Your empathy has no bounds, a delightful counterpoint to the sociopathic chancers with multiple accounts.

Take care, Bertie. I hope when you walk your dad to the gate that the end is gentle to you all. x

Raconteuse · 17-09-2019 12:52am

Don't leave, Bertie's Horse, ffs! I don't know about a person running four accounts but I am sick of seeing that meanspiritedness you talk about too - however, why on earth give them what they're looking for by leaving?!

Anyway, telling people to think positively can often be an inane, extremely unhelpful exercise.

What I view it as, though, is from the mindfulness/CBT approach - life will have its challenges and an inability to cope makes these even worse. Developing coping skills so as not to be absolutely in pieces over difficult times is, to me, "positive thinking". Of course the effectiveness of this depends on the gravity of the situation. And it's ok to have a meltdown and let it all out too.

Zubeneschamali · 17-09-2019 12:58am

victor8600 wrote: »

Other people find it easier to deal with a positively attuned person.

Well, yeah, but that's just because people hate listening to moaning and whining.

You can be as negative as you like if you can make it entertaining.

dd973 · 17-09-2019 3:18am

Some people are 'born for life' in a sense, and probably 5/10 on a bad day and 8/10 on a good one, never lower or higher, just a mixture of parentage, place, genes, planets they were born under combined with fewer adverse life experiences.

If you had the choice of being Lionel Messi or Paul Gascoigne, only a f**king idiot would choose to be the latter.

Same as the choice between being brought up in Sandymount or Neilstown.

seamus · 17-09-2019 7:46am

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Sadly, her attitude isn’t uncommon. A few people of my acquaintance were like that until their cancer returned as incurable. They can’t believe how hubristic and sanctimonious they were first time around. I know people like to feel in control but I don’t see why they need to put down other people in order to do that. It’s so hurtful.

What I have noticed is that one of the first things that happens after a diagnosis is the onslaught of bull**** "cures" that assails the patient. Whether it's because they've researched it themselves or they have some idiot friend who's all about it, they'll have a load of books and websites that go on and on about beating cancer by eating a certain way, and meditating and thinking positively, etc. Which are all nonsense of course.
They're good ways of coping perhaps, and taking it easy and eating properly can't hurt when you're going through chemo, but on their own they won't do a damn thing.

But when someone follows one of these scams and goes into remission, then of course they'll swear by it. "I beat cancer because I only ate vegetables that start with a Y", and anyone who didn't, obviously wasn't eating properly or wasn't being happy enough. Somehow the medication they took for weeks and the bare statistics that were explained to them at the start, got completely ignored.

Until, as you say, the bare statistics come back into play, the cancer returns and the person realises how misplaced their praise was for their miracle cure.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

A friend of one of my best friends just lost her little boy to a brain tumour. The boy’s paternal grandmother refused to see him after he was diagnosed. She’d ask for updates through family members.

I can understand how someone gets themselves into this situation. The same kind of people who close their eyes and hope for the best. They cannot emotionally take the pain of being in the presence of the sick person, and convince themselves that it's OK, because things will turn out fine in the end. The sick person wil get better, then they'll go see them and life returns to normal.

Some people just shut down and can't cope when life turns to **** and would rather it was possible to go asleep and wake up when it's all over.

That doesn't make it any better of course, but it's not an indication of maliciousness or lack of caring on the part of the other person.

Neyite · 17-09-2019 11:59am

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

A friend of one of my best friends just lost her little boy to a brain tumour. The boy’s paternal grandmother refused to see him after he was diagnosed. She’d ask for updates through family members.

I've an elderly relative who does the same. He did a few years of military service and saw some brutal things so I suspect from other clues over the years that in his case it's more of a type of avoidance strategy due to some undiagnosed PTSD issues. He hates to be that way. The way child mortality was some years ago could it be that the grandmother suffered a loss as a mother or as a sibling that she never got over?

chrissb8 · 17-09-2019 2:10pm

Being positive is a mindset, it is literally looking at a glass and saying it's half full. You can change the way you think and approach situations with a mindset like that and it's much more beneficial mentally for you in the long term.

People who I see as negative are the ones who let any little setback ruin their day.

Example: One little bad interaction in the morning ruining the whole day for someone and letting every little small thing bother them loads after.

Or what they could do....

One little incident happens and you shrug it off as it is a rare isolated incident. These things happen and it probably won't happen again for a while. So why let it ruin their mood and define their day?

In general negative people are the worst. Not those who genuinely have good reasons to be down and disgruntled with life, but those who stupidly feel the victim and hard done by over small or everyday things that can happen to anyone. They're infectious as well and will suck the life out of an event/room/plan or acheivement if you let them.

They're usually the kind to put little to no effort to change circumstances they are and lack the requisite self awareness to realise, that really, it's just the way they think and approach life is what's runing their mood day in and day out.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 17-09-2019 4:06pm

seamus wrote: »

What I have noticed is that one of the first things that happens after a diagnosis is the onslaught of bull**** "cures" that assails the patient. Whether it's because they've researched it themselves or they have some idiot friend who's all about it, they'll have a load of books and websites that go on and on about beating cancer by eating a certain way, and meditating and thinking positively, etc. Which are all nonsense of course.
They're good ways of coping perhaps, and taking it easy and eating properly can't hurt when you're going through chemo, but on their own they won't do a damn thing.

But when someone follows one of these scams and goes into remission, then of course they'll swear by it. "I beat cancer because I only ate vegetables that start with a Y", and anyone who didn't, obviously wasn't eating properly or wasn't being happy enough. Somehow the medication they took for weeks and the bare statistics that were explained to them at the start, got completely ignored.

Until, as you say, the bare statistics come back into play, the cancer returns and the person realises how misplaced their praise was for their miracle cure.

I can understand how someone gets themselves into this situation. The same kind of people who close their eyes and hope for the best. They cannot emotionally take the pain of being in the presence of the sick person, and convince themselves that it's OK, because things will turn out fine in the end. The sick person wil get better, then they'll go see them and life returns to normal.

Some people just shut down and can't cope when life turns to **** and would rather it was possible to go asleep and wake up when it's all over.

That doesn't make it any better of course, but it's not an indication of maliciousness or lack of caring on the part of the other person.

They need to build a bridge. In the case I mentioned, the kid had weeks to months, that was the prognosis. I have limited patience and compassion for anyone finding it hard to watch somebody else being seriously ill. The boy’s parents didn’t get to run away.

My father jumped on the cervical cancer screening debacle, saying “Then maybe they’re wrong about you!”. I felt a surge of anger. Yeah, I was just imagining all those pre-diagnosis excruciating symptoms that send me into a physical and mental downward spiral.

Agree on the miracle cures though. People omit the conventional medicine that truly helped them. Some still cling to the alternative woo when the cancer returns though unbelievably.

Hobosan · 17-09-2019 4:15pm

I'm positive my negative thinking produces positive results.

Hey, positive thinking is easy!

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 17-09-2019 6:13pm

Neyite wrote: »

I've an elderly relative who does the same. He did a few years of military service and saw some brutal things so I suspect from other clues over the years that in his case it's more of a type of avoidance strategy due to some undiagnosed PTSD issues. He hates to be that way. The way child mortality was some years ago could it be that the grandmother suffered a loss as a mother or as a sibling that she never got over?

But as I said, having friends or family members fall away after a cancer diagnosis is incredibly common. I’m a bit of an outlier in having it not happen to me. I find it hard to believe that all the people who do this to sufferers do so because of past trauma.

17-09-2019 6:18pm

I think a lot of people just find it impossible to deal with. And I think a lot of others just can't find it in themselves to deal with something huge that isn't entirely about them.

I've encountered that in my own life, and the person just didn't want to be bothered with anything that might require anything of them other than the empty platitudes and insincere sympathy they tried to display when it was all over, and it didn't count. There are a great many people who will say things like they wish they could have done more, when the reality is that they chose to do nothing at all, and they're perfectly fine with that.

storker · 17-09-2019 6:42pm

Raconteuse wrote: »

Don't leave, Bertie's Horse

Seconded. I read this before reading BH's story (reading backwards through the thread), and I was going to reply saying don't leave because every time I see his username it gives me a laugh - it's right up there with Princess Consuela Bananahammock that way. That response seems a bit shallow now...

...but I still stand by it.

One eyed Jack · 17-09-2019 7:00pm

Asian Scammer wrote: »

I'm afraid it's not that simple. Isn't this the most unhelpful patronising piece of advice? It's sort of like saying "ignore your own instincts".

It’s as simple as anything else once you’re not trying to analyse it too much. It’s generally said when someone is perceived to be thinking with a negative frame of mind. They have it within themselves to turn their mindset around literally by changing their perspective from a negative perspective to seeing the positives and potential positives of any given situation. It seems obviously patronising and condescending and all the rest of it if you’re analysing it from a negative perspective, but the point is that everyone has it within themselves to change their perspective, that’s all. It’s not meant to actually cure anything.

Unhelpful and patronising IMO is telling people “it’s ok not to be ok”, but there are some people who find that kind of thing helpful in their particular circumstances from their perspective. I’ve never thought it was ok not to be ok because it’s an attempt to make it acceptable for people to do nothing about the circumstances in which they find themselves where they imagine there’s nothing left for them but to think it’s ok not to be ok.

cj maxx · 17-09-2019 7:48pm

cjmc wrote: »

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts , I'm sorry about your diagnosis. I genuinely feel sad about a poster on an anonymous web site .
Anyway that's all

I hope that didn't come across as sarcastic, it wasn't

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 17-09-2019 7:57pm

Candie wrote: »

I think a lot of people just find it impossible to deal with. And I think a lot of others just can't find it in themselves to deal with something huge that isn't entirely about them.

I've encountered that in my own life, and the person just didn't want to be bothered with anything that might require anything of them other than the empty platitudes and insincere sympathy they tried to display when it was all over, and it didn't count. There are a great many people who will say things like they wish they could have done more, when the reality is that they chose to do nothing at all, and they're perfectly fine with that.

Very true. I have a former friend (more on that in a minute) who had another good friend (who I didn’t really know). This other friend’s father died in a horrific freak accident and my former friend just pulled away from her. And, in a not unrelated fact, she is comfortably one of the most self-absorbed and emotionally-stunted people I have ever met. That’s why we are no longer friends.

And that’s why I’m so cynical about people postulating reasonable reasons for people to ghost those going through illness or grief. Sometimes the reason is nothing other than craven self-absorption.

17-09-2019 8:14pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

And that’s why I’m so cynical about people postulating reasonable reasons for people to ghost those going through illness or grief. Sometimes the reason is nothing other than craven self-absorption.

This.

I've seen that sort of behaviour materialise with "friends" & former work colleagues of my father. Cowering away from unpalatable truths, loyalty out the window. These people are not fit to shine his shoes. They needn't pat themselves on the back if they show up at the funeral.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 17-09-2019 8:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This.

I've seen that sort of behaviour materialise with "friends" & former work colleagues of my father. Cowering away from unpalatable truths, loyalty out the window. These people are not fit to shine his shoes. They needn't pat themselves on the back if they show up at the funeral.

I’m so sorry. That’s sickening. The funeral attendance probably was enough to salve their consciences, sadly. Actually, some of them probably never felt bad at all.

17-09-2019 8:29pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m so sorry. That’s sickening. The funeral attendance probably was enough to salve their consciences, sadly. Actually, some of them probably never felt bad at all.

He's still battling away, although we're steeled for inevitable. If those individuals do attend the funeral, they're welcome to the back row.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 17-09-2019 8:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

He's still battling away, although we're steeled for inevitable. If those individuals do attend the funeral, they're welcome to the back row.

Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry. I thought I had read that he died. Feck, I’m so sorry.

17-09-2019 8:49pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry. I thought I had read that he died. Feck, I’m so sorry.

No need to apologise at all, I could have worded it clearer. My faux pas!

19-09-2019 8:57am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Unhelpful and patronising IMO is telling people “it’s ok not to be ok”, but there are some people who find that kind of thing helpful in their particular circumstances from their perspective. I’ve never thought it was ok not to be ok because it’s an attempt to make it acceptable for people to do nothing about the circumstances in which they find themselves where they imagine there’s nothing left for them but to think it’s ok not to be ok.

That is not what the phrase means however or the intention of it. In fact that would appear to be the exact opposite of the meaning and intention behind the phrase.

'Think Positively'

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