'Think Positively'

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 16-09-2019 6:06pm

vriesmays wrote: »

Positive thinking is a protestant concept from Calvinism. In the mid-1900s Americans were falling ill from their strict religion. Some developed a positive outlook to stay healthy. Now people think this can cure cancer.

Uh huh. Epigenetics is a concept that has leapt on by these charlatans. Cancer patients are encouraged to examine what they could have done emotionally to cause their cancer and “fix” it in order to cure the thing.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 16-09-2019 6:43pm

Oops, I think I killed the thread.

In everyday life, I have to employ positive thinking. It’s the only way to stay sane in my predicament. But it won’t save me.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 16-09-2019 6:47pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

And while we’re at it, no, not everything happens “for a reason”. I’m going to die in my fourth decade for a reason?

Please tell me that's just a pet peeve and people don't actually say that to people with terminal illness? :eek:

metaoblivia · 16-09-2019 7:00pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Oops, I think I killed the thread.

In everyday life, I have to employ positive thinking. It’s the only way to stay sane in my predicament. But it won’t save me.

Nah, you didn't! Your post reminded me of this well known NCAA gymnastics coach who had cancer. And she's a big believer in the pop psychology version of positive thinking. Her cancer was not terminal - she was an outpatient and didn't have to take some of the more difficult drugs. Once her cancer had gone into remission, she gave interviews about how the other cancer patients weren't thinking positively enough, and at that point I lost a whole lot of respect for her.

For me, optimism and thinking positively is a lot more nuanced than what gets thrown at us. When you're going through something like cancer, you should have space to grieve and be angry and acknowledge that it isn't fair and it really fvcking sucks. I would go so far as to say that allowing yourself to feel and acknowledge those emotions - and hopefully having someone else around with the presence of mind to validate them - is an important step towards optimism.

And you're absolutely right. At the end of the day, positive thinking doesn't save anyone. We all meet the thing that beats us eventually. But in the meantime, some grounded optimism can make the days in between a little brighter.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 16-09-2019 7:02pm

Maverick Careful Between wrote: »

Please tell me that's just a pet peeve and people don't actually say that to people with terminal illness? :eek:

My mother-in-law, who knows my prognosis, said those very words to me. I was having a low moment and I know it must be difficult to know what to say to someone like me and platitudes are so easy to reach for but really? And unfortunately, I didn’t reply with grace. I said quite bluntly “But I’m going to die from this. What’s the reason for that?”. She remained quiet and was embarrassed. We have a good relationship so I still feel guilty about replying like that but then I think “Why should I?”. Do people feel bad about saying thoughtless shit to me? Probably not. They probably think they helped.

Earthhorse · 16-09-2019 7:04pm

metaoblivia wrote: »

I'm a self-described optimist and this is how I describe my outlook: I know there will be tough times. I just believe I have (and most of us have) the ability to get through the tough times. It may mean hard work, it may take a while, and I may not emerge entirely unscathed. But I've experienced several tough situations in my life and I've navigated them all (sometimes clumsily, but we do our best) and I'm still here. And that's gotta count for something, right? So I plan to keep on doing that until I expire.

That sounds more like a stoic outlook to me.

Junkyard Tom · 16-09-2019 7:09pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’ve been told to stay positive

They may as well be telling you to 'shut up' and 'don't bother me' with your horrible news. That is unbelievable.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 16-09-2019 7:09pm

metaoblivia wrote: »

Nah, you didn't! Your post reminded me of this well known NCAA gymnastics coach who had cancer. And she's a big believer in the pop psychology version of positive thinking. Her cancer was not terminal - she was an outpatient and didn't have to take some of the more difficult drugs. Once her cancer had gone into remission, she gave interviews about how the other cancer patients weren't thinking positively enough, and at that point I lost a whole lot of respect for her.

For me, optimism and thinking positively is a lot more nuanced than what gets thrown at us. When you're going through something like cancer, you should have space to grieve and be angry and acknowledge that it isn't fair and it really fvcking sucks. I would go so far as to say that allowing yourself to feel and acknowledge those emotions - and hopefully having someone else around with the presence of mind to validate them - is an important step towards optimism.

And you're absolutely right. At the end of the day, positive thinking doesn't save anyone. We all meet the thing that beats us eventually. But in the meantime, some grounded optimism can make the days in between a little brighter.

Sadly, her attitude isn’t uncommon. A few people of my acquaintance were like that until their cancer returned as incurable. They can’t believe how hubristic and sanctimonious they were first time around. I know people like to feel in control but I don’t see why they need to put down other people in order to do that. It’s so hurtful.

Woke Hogan · 16-09-2019 7:12pm

I think of myself as a positive person, I've always tried not to let the slings and arrows bring me down. A positive attitude and good effort will carry you a long way, especially when you're dealing with some of life's more trivial concerns. I think it's mainly because of all the exercise I get: I run approx sixty miles every week and I maintain a very healthy diet.

My daughter, on the other hand, is totally the opposite. She always down on herself and her weight (she is obese). But I prefer that to when she's lying to herself and claiming that trying to maintain a healthy weight has something to do with unfair "beauty standards" or that me asking her not to eat me out of house and home is "fat shaming" her. She's very negative and spending far too much time on the Instragram.

My son takes after my wife and I, though. He's great.

endacl · 16-09-2019 7:12pm

A pessimist is what an optimist calls a realist.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 16-09-2019 7:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally, its a breath of fresh air when you are in the company of people who are full of new ideas and plans, and who can only see opportunities and not problems.

Personally, I find the people who can see only opportunities to be just as irritating as those who can see only problems.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 16-09-2019 7:14pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

They may as well be telling you to 'shut up' and 'don't bother me' with your horrible news. That is unbelievable.

One online friend of mine was told by somebody that she had ruined their day by telling them she had terminal cancer. Others have been told quietly not to return to support groups because their presence is “depressing” for the early-stage attendees. These are examples of “positive thinking” being quite sinister.

metaoblivia · 16-09-2019 7:15pm

Earthhorse wrote: »

That sounds more like a stoic outlook to me.

To me, a stoic outlook implies that you don't express too much emotion one way or another and that complaining is a waste of time because it doesn't solve anything (thank you to my Kansan grandparents who were very stoic & could have modeled for American Gothic). I do express a whole range of emotions and even complain once in a while, so I don't count myself among the strictly stoic. I'm just more of a grounded optimist.

Junkyard Tom · 16-09-2019 7:29pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

One online friend of mine was told by somebody that she had ruined their day by telling them she had terminal cancer. Others have been told quietly not to return to support groups because their presence is “depressing” for the early-stage attendees. These are examples of “positive thinking” being quite sinister.

Sweet sufferin mercy that is just incredible.

completedit · 16-09-2019 7:30pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

One online friend of mine was told by somebody that she had ruined their day by telling them she had terminal cancer. Others have been told quietly not to return to support groups because their presence is “depressing” for the early-stage attendees. These are examples of “positive thinking” being quite sinister.

That's nothing to do with positive thinking, that's just being a ****

Earthhorse · 16-09-2019 7:46pm

metaoblivia wrote: »

To me, a stoic outlook implies that you don't express too much emotion one way or another and that complaining is a waste of time because it doesn't solve anything (thank you to my Kansan grandparents who were very stoic & could have modeled for American Gothic). I do express a whole range of emotions and even complain once in a while, so I don't count myself among the strictly stoic. I'm just more of a grounded optimist.

Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that. I guess stoic is the wrong word. I associate it more with what you described; you’ve been here before and you know you’ll get through it. But that’s not, as you say, strictly speaking stoic.

16-09-2019 8:56pm

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I think of myself as a positive person, I've always tried not to let the slings and arrows bring me down. A positive attitude and good effort will carry you a long way, especially when you're dealing with some of life's more trivial concerns.

The delusion is strong with this one. You stew over every slight, and repeatedly try to get the last dig in. It reflects on a galling lack of maturity for a man allegedly entering his sixties.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 16-09-2019 10:37pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Sweet sufferin mercy that is just incredible.

completedit wrote: »

That's nothing to do with positive thinking, that's just being a ****

Sadly, this kind of thing is more common than you’d think. I’m unusual in not having lost friends since my diagnosis. Seriously, I’m in the minority. Most people will have one or more people fall away or just plain ghost them because they “can’t handle it”. Even close family members for some. A friend of one of my best friends just lost her little boy to a brain tumour. The boy’s paternal grandmother refused to see him after he was diagnosed. She’d ask for updates through family members.

1800_Ladladlad · 16-09-2019 10:57pm

I work for one of the biggest payment processors and their Americanised positivity does not translate to the many nationalities that are employed there. it's like a ted talk on nutrition during the famine.

16-09-2019 11:11pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Sadly, her attitude isn’t uncommon. A few people of my acquaintance were like that until their cancer returned as incurable. They can’t believe how hubristic and sanctimonious they were first time around. I know people like to feel in control but I don’t see why they need to put down other people in order to do that. It’s so hurtful.

The peculiar language of cancer is the language of winners and losers, people who fight brave battles and win, and those who lose their fight - presumably not having fought hard or bravely enough. It's a disease, not a lack of fortitude or a triumph of positive thinking depending on the outcome. It says nothing about the character of the sufferer but people seem to insist on using that terminology.

I'm sorry people are so breathtakingly insensitive, it's mind-boggling.

16-09-2019 11:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You seem to be an authority on the subject, my old man has terminal cancer & yet I don't seek to score cheap points on an internet forum at the expense of others.

I'm not trying to score cheap points. I lost my mother to cancer last year. I'm very sorry your dad is ill, and I'm sorry for all you're going through, and for all he's going through. It's a horrible disease, but my view is that terminal patients have enough to deal with without being told to be battlers or to fight; it's hard enough.

I'd ask you to remove that last sentence, as it's not for AH.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 16-09-2019 11:23pm

Candie wrote: »

The peculiar language of cancer is the language of winners and losers, people who fight brave battles and win, and those who lose their fight - presumably not having fought hard or bravely enough. It's a disease, not a lack of fortitude or a triumph of positive thinking depending on the outcome. It says nothing about the character of the sufferer but people seem to insist on using that terminology.

I'm sorry people are so breathtakingly insensitive, it's mind-boggling.

I know, I’ve spent over four years peering up at the guillotine blade from the blocks. This week, I’m fielding phone calls about a brain MRI to see of it has spread there. My husband holds down a stressful job and tries to put one foot in front of the other, knowing he’ll be spat out on the dating scene again soon enough and with nothing material to show for a nearly decade-long relationship (that kills me but who thinks about life insurance at 30?). My parents, after a working life fraught with money worries, are starting their well-earned retirement knowing that they’ll be burying a child in the next few years. We all know the outcome. This won’t be fixed and we all know that and we all plod along anyway and manage to have plenty of good times. I don’t think we’re losers, I think we’re all winners.

The fight language is controversial. Some cancer patients love it... but they tend to be early stage with some hope of recovery. Many of them later regret it if the cancer returns. BUT then some terminal patients like the fight terminology because as far as they are concerned, they fight every single day to stay engaged with the wider world and retain their identity. I can understand all the different viewpoints.

cj maxx · 16-09-2019 11:23pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts , I'm sorry about your diagnosis. I genuinely feel sad about a poster on an anonymous web site .
Anyway that's all

16-09-2019 11:25pm

Candie wrote: »

I'm not trying to score cheap points. I lost my mother to cancer last year. I'm very sorry your dad is ill, and I'm sorry for all you're going through, and for all he's going through. It's a horrible disease, but my view is that terminal patients have enough to deal with without being told to be battlers or to fight; it's hard enough.

I'd ask you to remove that last sentence, as it's not for AH.

You're right Candie, you have a heart of gold. The scourge of petty individuals running four accounts simultaneously has undermined my faith in this site. It might be time to stop. They can revel in their pyrrhic victories, like an incontinent individual saluting brief respite away from the jacks.

Noveight · 16-09-2019 11:40pm

Only recently I met a colleague in the hall just before the day began. I gave him the usual "Well, how's it going?" and he replied "Attack the day, boyo!" which I haven't forgotten since.

Attack the day, a bit less clichéd than that Carpe Diem carry on :P

16-09-2019 11:45pm

Candie wrote: »

I'm not trying to score cheap points. I lost my mother to cancer last year. I'm very sorry your dad is ill, and I'm sorry for all you're going through, and for all he's going through. It's a horrible disease, but my view is that terminal patients have enough to deal with without being told to be battlers or to fight; it's hard enough.

I'd ask you to remove that last sentence, as it's not for AH.

I regret it all Candie, you deserve much better than this. Hammered in the local, looking for a reason justifying existence and a simplified answer isn't forthcoming. Life offers a tantalising glimpse of happiness, before withdrawing the privilege.

16-09-2019 11:51pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I regret it all Candie, you deserve much better than this. Hammered in the local, looking for a reason justifying existence and a simplified answer isn't forthcoming. Life offers a tantalising glimpse of happiness, before withdrawing the privilege.

A bag of chips and a spiceburger might help take your mind off it. Look on the bright side.... You’re unlikely to choke on it.

PS: Enjoy whatever moments you can with your Da.

16-09-2019 11:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I regret it all Candie, you deserve much better than this. Hammered in the local, looking for a reason for existence and a simplified answer isn't forthcoming. Life offers a tantalising glimpse of happiness, before withdrawing the privilege.

Don't worry Bertie, anyone who's lost anyone knows how you feel and how hard it is when you feel helpless and useless.The more you love, the more you hurt. I believe for most of us the pain is worth the special gift of having been loved by them, and having the gift of loving them back. It does sound glib, but it comes to us all. I've lost three family members in the last decade, and I'm grateful for every moment I had with them, it's worth the pain. You'll get through this, it's part of being human and that's what humans do; they get through it and carry on. And so will you, and there will be happiness again, and it'll all be worth it.

If you could remove the reference in that post, I'd be grateful.

16-09-2019 11:58pm

Candie wrote: »

Don't worry Bertie, anyone who's lost anyone knows how you feel and how hard it is when you feel helpless and useless.The more you love, the more you hurt. I believe for most of us the pain is worth the special gift of having been loved by them, and having the gift of loving them back. It does sound glib, but it comes to us all. I've lost three family members in the last decade, and I'm grateful for every moment I had with them, it's worth the pain. You'll get through this, it's part of being human and that's what humans do; they get through it and carry on. And so will you, and there will be happiness again, and it'll all be worth it.

If you could remove the reference in that post, I'd be grateful.

Done, appreciate your input. Your empathy has no bounds, a delightful counterpoint to the sociopathic chancers with multiple accounts.

Wayne Jarvis · 17-09-2019 12:00am

Deleted User wrote: »

The scourge of petty individuals running four accounts simultaneously has undermined my faith in this site. It might be time to stop. They can revel in their pyrrhic victories, like an incontinent individual saluting brief respite away from the jacks.

Bertie have you considered using the ignore function for this/these poster(s)? Is it worth it to you (or them for that matter) to engage with each other so often?

'Think Positively'

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