Old Tool Restoration

imakebiodiesel · 18-06-2016 9:21am

The handle at the front is an add on that woodworkers make themselves. Its easy to make if you have a lathe.

magicbastarder · 18-06-2016 3:47pm

most of the rest of the contents of the garage ended up in a skip. there's no way the other components survived the clearout, unfortunately. if they were even there to begin with.

Sparks · 18-06-2016 6:35pm

They're easy enough to find on ebay, run to around the €20 mark.

Sparks · 26-06-2016 7:47pm

imakebiodiesel wrote: »

Im glad you are pleased with your Record cast steel blade. They really are a pleasure to work with. Once its sharpened up can produce a finish on the wood that looks as if it has been polished.

They're lovely (and I've bought another one off ebay to replace the bodged Stanley blade/Record cap iron that my #5½ came with), but they're not invincible...

2016-06-26-19.07.28a.jpg

While planing RWD down for my bench, it was a case of I fought the knot and the knot won

Second time that's happened too, last time the divot was even larger and actually broke off the blade instead of being bent over like this time.

Pine knots. They're like the tree's revenge for being cut down!

my3cents · 26-06-2016 8:28pm

I think you'll find that over time good steel naturally gets harder. As it gets harder it also gets more brittle. I've had some old chisels that took a great edge but would do the same.

timple23 · 26-06-2016 10:50pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

I dry mine off, rub down with a cloth first with WD40 and then a light coat of machine oil

what machine oil do you use or what other oil could be used?

also for a machine table with bits of rust, cause by tin cans being left on it, how can it be treated as i can't really dip it?

imakebiodiesel · 27-06-2016 7:41pm

Im interested in your post about steel getting harder with age, In 40 years of working with metal Ive never heard of that before.
The cast steel blades aren't indestructible and if you want to improve their resistance to damage, grind and hone a convex bevel at about 30°. It will be still be sharp enough to produce a fine finish especially if you strop a mirror finish as a final touch.

imakebiodiesel · 27-06-2016 7:59pm

Machine oils fall into two categories. The first is thinned oils that are really thick oil with a solvent mixed into them to lower the viscosity. This is typical of WD40 and 3 in one oil. These are good penetrating oils but as the solvent dries off a thick sluggish oil is left behind.
The second type is a genuinely thin oil and these are very difficult to produce. A genuine low viscosity mineral oil will tend to be combustible. In the 19th century sperm oil was the thin oil of choice but for obvious reasons you cant get it any more. Singer used to sell a thin mineral oil for their sewing machines but that is no longer available.
I make my own thin oil by transesterifying vegetable oil. This does not contain solvents and does not evaporate to form a thicker oil. it also has the big advantage that its not toxic or carcinogenic. It makes a great honing oil and I also use it to treat wood and protect metal surfaces. Im not interested in selling it but if anyone wants to try it ill send you a litre for just the postage.

Calahonda52 · 28-06-2016 1:19pm

imakebiodiesel wrote: »

.... In the 19th century sperm oil was the thin oil of choice but for obvious reasons you cant get it any more.

LOL:D

imakebiodiesel wrote: »

I make my own thin oil by transesterifying vegetable oil.

Any links to the process?

dathi · 28-06-2016 4:22pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

LOL:D

Any links to the process?

hint is in the name

Calahonda52 · 28-06-2016 5:29pm

dathi wrote: »

hint is in the name

I looked here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transesterification
and it seems that TVO is in fact biodiesel so I suspect wont be doing it in the kitchen!

imakebiodiesel · 29-06-2016 4:07pm

The process is similar to biodiesel but the feedstock is different. In biodiesel I used waste vegetable oil and fats from restaurants but for honing oil I use virgin sunflower seed oil . The oil is heated to 60°C and a mixture of potassium hydroxide and methanol is added. The mixture is mixed for about an hour and then allowed to settle overnight. Next day it has separated into dark brown glycerol in the bottom and methyl esters on top. The esters are separated and dried to remove water and traces of methanol and are ready for use. Although the chemicals involved are toxic and caustic if handled sensibly there is no reason why anyone couldnt do this in a workshop (I agree, not a kitchen.)

The esters once dried are completely non toxic and have a very high flash point 169°C ie very safe. I use it as a honing oil, a penetrating oil, a general purpose lubricant for bicycles and machinery, for cleaning and protecting metal and for treating wooden tool handles. It is in no way similar to TVO which to my knowledge is a mineral hydrocarbon similar to kerosene with a flash point of 38°C . Tvo is both toxic and carcinogenic.
The glycerol byproduct is also very useful as a biodegradable lubricant, degreaser, coolant and hand cleanser.

Sparks · 29-06-2016 4:20pm

So just vegetable oil, caustic potash and white spirits and then mix and allow to settle?
I'm guessing you seperate the esters by the normal pouring off method, but how do you dry the esters?

dathi · 29-06-2016 5:05pm

Sparks wrote: »

So just vegetable oil, caustic potash and white spirits and then mix and allow to settle?
I'm guessing you seperate the esters by the normal pouring off method, but how do you dry the esters?

no methanol is a type of alcohol white spirit is a petroleum based paint thinner

Sparks · 29-06-2016 5:23pm

Huh. I always thought white spirit and meths were the same stuff. TIL I guess.

magicbastarder · 29-06-2016 5:34pm

meths is ethanol, with methanol added so it doesn't get hit by drink-related duties.
also added are the purple dye and smell so you know not to drink it. methanol and ethanol do different things to your body.

Sparks · 29-06-2016 6:11pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

meths is ethanol, with methanol added so it doesn't get hit by drink-related duties.
also added are the purple dye and smell so you know not to drink it. methanol and ethanol do different things to your body.

Yup, knew that bit, it was the white spirit I was confused about.

imakebiodiesel · 29-06-2016 6:24pm

Put 1 litre of warm but not hot vegoil into a 2 litre plastic bottle. Add the methoxide screw on the cap and shake for 10 minutes. Put somewhere to settle over night . Pour off the golden esters off into a sauce pan and heat to 9o°C in a very well ventilated area to dry off any excess methanol, allow to cool and use as you need it.
Methoxide recipe
8 grams of potassium hydroxide or 5 grams of sodium hydroxide ( drain cleaner)
200ml of pure methanol
premix in a glass or stainless steel vessel and dissolve the hydroxide crystals completely before adding to the oil.
WARNING methanol is inflammable and toxic, hydroxide are highly caustic and toxic , wear gloves and safety spec. Keep workspace well ventilated. Do this entirely at your own risk.

fergal.b · 30-06-2016 6:26pm

Wossack wrote: »

my grandad had an old multitool type machine years and years ago - not a shopsmith though.. any alternatives people are aware of?

I restored one of these it's an INCA combi tool maybe this is what your grandad had I think they were quite common back in the day. This one is still going strong I was working away on it today

imakebiodiesel · 03-07-2016 6:24pm

Lovely Job Fergal, Your workshop looks like mine, stuffed full of stuff I might need some day.
Its not often I get a quiet Sunday but the family was off up to Dublin and I decided to do a bit of woodturning. Ive been collecting Ward and Payne cast steel chisels for the last year or so and now have a set of five 1/4, ,1/2, 3/4, 1 and 1.1/4 inch. They have odd handles and some were cracked so that was my task today. I knocked the blades out of the handles and then sawed off the ferrules.
I have two woodworking lathes, an electric shopsmith and my old pole lathe built 24 years ago. When making handles I prefer the pole lathe, it has no chuck so you can turn right to the end of the workpiece and you can hang the ferrule on the turning centre and check it for a fit without removing the workpiece from the lathe.
I chose beech for this job, ash is more attractive but does have a tendency to split when hit with a mallet. Also I intended to dye these handles and beech takes stain really well.
One of the handles had a nice pattern so I decided to copy it for all of them
Ive noticed that the manufacturers tended to make smaller slimmer handles on the smaller chisels which looks right but my hands are the same size whatever size of chisel Im using so I decided to make the small sizes a bit bigger than the originals.
After a couple of hours of pleasant work I turned the handles, bored them and fitted the blades, gave them a coat of a dark stain and then a coat of my own oil. So now I have a set of chisels that look good as well as cut beautifully.

..Brian.. · 03-07-2016 10:57pm

Great work!

imakebiodiesel · 22-07-2016 8:14pm

As a part time cooper over the years I have slowly built up a collection of coopering tools, some I have made myself, some Ive bought and restored.
Recently a UK tool dealer offered me a collection of tools that just I couldnt resist.
The elderly cooper who owned these tools , lived and worked in the city of Bristol and part of his collection had been his fathers who had been a ships carpenters and cooper.

The tools were in great condition, dirty and worn but no woodworm and most importantly no abuse. Most of the work Ive done has been just cleaning, oiling and scrubbing off the rust .
The blade of the sun plane was completely seized into the body, I had to grip the blade in the blade and hit the wooden body with a deadblow hammer to get it out. Once out it was just a matter of cleaning and sharpening.
The Downright ( big spokeshave) hardly need and work other than a good clean. It is stamped Wm Greaves & sons who changed their name to Greaves and Co in 1850 so this tool is over 166 years old and still in great condition.
I have turned replacement handles for the lovely curved drawknife and the inshave. the cast steel blades are in good condition and now are sharp.
The spokeshave in the picture was a real find. Its French, made by Peugeot et Freres, Yes they now make bicycles and cars. The white insert on the sole is made of IVORY! I have tested it with a hot pin and it makes no impression whatsoever, bone instantly burns and smokes. My best guess is that the coopers father may have served on a whaling ship and had access to walrus ivory to make a repair to his precious adjustable spokeshave.

Calahonda52 · 31-07-2016 4:53pm

Its in the vinegar and salt now, will revert when the gaffer is using it!

jack of all · 31-07-2016 6:54pm

Those items look like ideal candidates for molasses, as per my horsehoe- before and after...

magicbastarder · 31-07-2016 10:01pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Its in the vinegar and salt now, will revert when the gaffer is using it!

we have a couple of old irons; i reckon they might have more character with all the corrosion on them.

Wossack · 02-08-2016 12:09am

Had someone throw a couple of _really_ rusty plane blades in with an ebay purchase - must look into this molasses technique, looks very effective!

tabby aspreme · 02-08-2016 10:22am

If anyone is using vinegar to clean rusty metal, don't throw it all out when finished, for
vinegar that has been used to clean metal is a very effective wood stain on wood that has a high tannic acid content such as oak and Spanish chestnut, it turns the wood black.

imakebiodiesel · 03-08-2016 11:01am

Good one, I love the idea of use and then reuse.
This recipe has been in use since the middle ages to produce Iron Gall ink. Iron filings were dissolved in a acid and then oak shaving were added . The tannins react with the metal salt and produce a dark black ink that is permanent. If you want to stain other woods than oak and chestnut, add oak shavings to the used vinegar and leave to soak for a couple of day. Then filter out the solids and apply the liquid just as you would an ordinary stain.

magicbastarder · 23-08-2016 12:47pm

probably gone now, but i was cycling between portmarnock and baldoyle yesterday evening, and was what looked like a rusty bailey #4 plane sitting on a wall alongside the road, i guess put there by someone who found it dumped.
i was in my cycling get-up so didn't have the opportunity to find it a new home.

Sparks · 23-08-2016 2:07pm

Feck's sakes, why am I paying money for these on ebay if we're just leaving them on random walls?

imakebiodiesel · 11-11-2016 7:44pm

Its funny how things sometime come together at just the right time. A couple of weeks ago I picked up this wooden frame which is a sawyers clamp. Its a very simple device that holds a traditional ( non hardpoint ) saw in position for resharpening. I had given up sharpening my own saws because I just couldn't see well enough.

Then my wife bought a pair of close up glasses in Lidl that were X3 by mistake. I tried them on and hey presto I could see tiny stuff again and the leds mounted in the glasses helped as well.
Next day I set to with a record 077 saw set and a small triangular file and I resharpened all my old saws.
I had forgotten just how good these saws are. We have all gotten used to the hardpoint saw that cuts like crazy for a couple of days and then are miserable for a couple of weeks until we throw them in the bin and buy another one.
Saw sharpening is easy , provided you can see, and if you want to read up on it I would recommend Charles Haywards "tools for Woodwork" as a good place to start.

imakebiodiesel · 03-12-2016 11:33am

Heres an item that is often neglected by tool collectors and restorers, oil stones / hones. Over the years I used just about every sharpening system that I know of including hi tech diamond hones , japanese waterstones et al. In the end |I returned to the old fashioned oil stone.
Good oilstones , especially natural ones can be quite expensive but second hand shops and market stalls often sell them for nearly nothing. If you know what to look for there are real bargains around.
Restoration is straightforward. Dont buy anything that is cracked and it must have one reasonably undamaged face. Soak it in clean white spirit for a couple of days and then scrub it with wire wool. At this stage you will be able to see the colour and grain of the stone more clearly.
If the stone is worn in the middle it must be lapped , tape a trip of 120 grit sandpaper to a sheet of glass and rub the face of the stone on it to flatten the face. When finished wash the stone again with white spirit and leave to dry.
Finally soak the stone with a good quality honing oil, preferably a non toxic vegetable base on and its ready to go.

A medium synthetic stone ( 250 - 500 grit) is best for initial sharpening.
A fine finishing stone is used next to smooth the bevels to a grey finish. ( synthetic 500 - 1000 natural 800 to 2000grit)
Finally a polishing stone is used to achieve a mirror finish on the edge. ( 2000 - 10000 grit)

Here are some stones that I have restored recently
http://s871.photobucket.com/user/imakebiodiesel/library/

From left to right.
8" Norton "India" medium
8" Norton "India" fine finishing
8" Pike Queer Creek fine finishing stone
6" Dragons Tongue very fine polishing
8" Dragons Tongue very fine polishing
8" Hard Arkansas fine finishing, wooden base
6" Water of Ayr very fine polishing
8" Tam OShanter fine finishing, in box

imakebiodiesel · 03-12-2016 11:37am

Sorry, I screwed up that last picture upload, here is the image I meant to upload, at least I hope it is.

jack of all · 06-12-2016 10:57pm

imakebiodiesel wrote: »

Sorry, I screwed up that last picture upload, here is the image I meant to upload, at least I hope it is.

Some lovely stones there imakebiodiesel; I've a few old oil stones myself which I picked up for very little money. After some research and experimenting of my own I have a proven way of cleaning old, clogged up oil stones. I put a thick rag in the bottom of a pot (an old pot reserved for jobs like this!) Put the stone on top of the rag, fill with water, add a dishwasher tablet and a spoon or two of washing powder, bring to the boil and simmer for an hour or so. The detergent breaks down the old congealed oil and the water drives out any trapped gunk. After this I sometimes put the stone in the dishwasher and the stone comes out perfectly clean and ready for flattening. I've seen old Norton "Pike" novaculite which were black returned to their normal sandy/ translucent colour. When fully dry the stone will need to be soaked in oil- I use a mix of white spirit, kerosene and light mineral oil (SAE 30).

imakebiodiesel · 09-12-2016 7:07pm

Hi Jack of all, thanks for that great tip. Over the years several people have asked me if its possible to change a natural oil stone to a waterstone and ive always advised them to stick to oil. I bet it would be possible using your method.
I do have concerns about using mineral oil. I sharpen tools every day and constantly get oil on my skin. All mineral oils are toxic and many are carcinogenic so I use my own vegetable based honing oil. Its not just veg oil with a solvent to thin it, so it doesnt clog the stones and its much healthier and safer to use. If you send me your address by Pm Ill send you some free of charge.

my3cents · 09-12-2016 7:34pm

Its probably just as bad for you but I use BBQ lighter fluid for honing. I ended up with a load of it I was never going to use after helping clear out some mates sheds and garages. It was to hand when I needed some honing fluid and I found it worked really well so kept using it.

imakebiodiesel · 11-12-2016 12:43pm

Some barbeque fluids contain methanol which you definitely do not want to handle. Its toxic and is easily absorbed through the skin. In small doses ( which I have experienced) it will give you a sick hangover type headache but stronger doses are much more serious.
Other barbeque fluids are mostly petroleum distillates which will work as a honing oil but still have the health concerns associated with mineral oils.
Please let me send you some non toxic stuff to use. just send me your address by PM.
John

magicbastarder · 11-12-2016 2:22pm

what's the deal with paraffin oil? some versions are used as a laxative, which would hopefully imply it's non-toxic?

raspberrypi67 · 11-12-2016 7:41pm

imakebiodiesel wrote: »

Hi Jack of all, thanks for that great tip. Over the years several people have asked me if its possible to change a natural oil stone to a waterstone and ive always advised them to stick to oil. I bet it would be possible using your method.
I do have concerns about using mineral oil. I sharpen tools every day and constantly get oil on my skin. All mineral oils are toxic and many are carcinogenic so I use my own vegetable based honing oil. Its not just veg oil with a solvent to thin it, so it doesnt clog the stones and its much healthier and safer to use. If you send me your address by Pm Ill send you some free of charge.

I used to use oil, bloody messy stuff. I moved onto Japanese water stones and they are great. I keep them in water while not in use. I've a 500 grit and a 2000grit for the final polish. Using these now for 10 years and they give a razor sharp finish.
I also have a couple of very effective diamond stones, I use washing up liquid and water or just dry if I'm in a hurry. They are good too if you just want a quick result.

jack of all · 11-12-2016 9:03pm

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

I used to use oil, bloody messy stuff. I moved onto Japanese water stones and they are great. I keep them in water while not in use. I've a 500 grit and a 2000grit for the final polish. Using these now for 10 years and they give a razor sharp finish.
I also have a couple of very effective diamond stones, I use washing up liquid and water or just dry if I'm in a hurry. They are good too if you just want a quick result.

I'm a hobby user and I don't need to sharpen my tools very often as a result, but I prefer oil stones, hands down. I have 4 or 5 waterstones which I used with great conviction when I first discovered waterstones. Yes, they were great- they cut quickly, leave a mirror polish and would probably be the go-to stone in a high end cabinet maker's shop. BUT the reality is they're damn expensive, wear out (and wear hollow) with alarming ease and probably unnecessary if most of your general woodwork is with softwoods and mild hardwoods! Add to that the palaver with setting up, water everywhere and risk of rust! I've inherited 2 old oilstones that belonged to my great grandfather and after some cleaning and flattenning I'm pretty sure I won't wear them out. Each to their own, but I think oilstones still represent great value for money.

raspberrypi67 · 11-12-2016 10:27pm

jack of all wrote: »

I'm a hobby user and I don't need to sharpen my tools very often as a result, but I prefer oil stones, hands down. I have 4 or 5 waterstones which I used with great conviction when I first discovered waterstones. Yes, they were great- they cut quickly, leave a mirror polish and would probably be the go-to stone in a high end cabinet maker's shop. BUT the reality is they're damn expensive, wear out (and wear hollow) with alarming ease and probably unnecessary if most of your general woodwork is with softwoods and mild hardwoods! Add to that the palaver with setting up, water everywhere and risk of rust! I've inherited 2 old oilstones that belonged to my great grandfather and after some cleaning and flattenning I'm pretty sure I won't wear them out. Each to their own, but I think oilstones still represent great value for money.

Well, I don't agree with a word you said. They can be smoothed also, I'll bet with the same palaver your oil stones need!! secondly, rust, lol, you dry them after!! Easy. Slightly oily rag after. Thirdly, not expensive. But anyway, everyone has there own preference.

imakebiodiesel · 17-12-2016 12:11pm

I see I have opened a can of worms here
Everyone has their own preferences with regard to sharpening, Ive used japanese waterstones, natural scottish and welsh waterstones, Lots of different oilstones and diamond hones and each system has its merits and its failings.
I sharpen tools in my business every day sometimes as many as 10 or 12 chisels, plane irons, spokeshave blades, turning and carving tools etc. I need a system that is fast and produces a good result, for me oilstones tick that box but I can quite see the attraction of other methods. Waterstones work very well but are too fragile for my constant use and the finished tools need drying and wiping down with oil afterwards anyway.
Good diamond hones are excellent but expensive and the cheaper ones dont last very long.

my3cents · 17-12-2016 12:40pm

imakebiodiesel wrote: »

I see I have opened a can of worms here
Everyone has their own preferences with regard to sharpening, Ive used japanese waterstones, natural scottish and welsh waterstones, Lots of different oilstones and diamond hones and each system has its merits and its failings.
I sharpen tools in my business every day sometimes as many as 10 or 12 chisels, plane irons, spokeshave blades, turning and carving tools etc. I need a system that is fast and produces a good result, for me oilstones tick that box but I can quite see the attraction of other methods. Waterstones work very well but are too fragile for my constant use and the finished tools need drying and wiping down with oil afterwards anyway.
Good diamond hones are excellent but expensive and the cheaper ones dont last very long.

Actually its the cheaper diamond stones I find the BBQ lighter fluid is good on and makes them last quite well.

imakebiodiesel · 18-12-2016 12:42am

magicbastarder wrote: »

what's the deal with paraffin oil? some versions are used as a laxative, which would hopefully imply it's non-toxic?

Pharma grade paraffin is completely different from kerosene / paraffin heating oil, All traces or aromatic hydrocarbons are removed leaving mainly simple alkanes. Aromatics are toxic and carcinogenic.

imakebiodiesel · 18-12-2016 12:48am

my3cents wrote: »

Actually its the cheaper diamond stones I find the BBQ lighter fluid is good on and makes them last quite well.

I dont doubt that barbeque fluid is a good honing oil but my concern is the health problems associated with skin contact.
Cheaper diamond stones work fine but would not last long if used 8 or 10 times a day as I use sharpening stones.
As I said before all these systems have pros and cons you have to choose what works for you.

Sparks · 22-12-2016 11:28pm

Finally found a T5 for decent money, and it turns out the guy selling it did a lovely job restoring it as well:

imakebiodiesel · 23-12-2016 12:51pm

Thats a beauty, Good T5s are hard to find at a reasonable price.
I notice that you have a Record 078 duplex plane on your bench. My son and I have been using a similar rebate plane a lot this last few weeks and found it much better to use with a wooden handle fitted to the front like the one in the picture.
http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab280/imakebiodiesel/knob%20001_zps471a5sbz.jpg
They are easy to make and fit . If you dont have a lathe I could turn the knob part for you.

Sparks · 23-12-2016 1:06pm

It's not the 078, it's the 778 with the dual fence posts - damn handy when you forget to check that all of the screws are snugged up properly before you start cutting a rebate

And thanks for the offer imbd, but I prefer to hang onto the front post and tuck my thumb in behind the nose so I can keep the fence snug to the edge.

imakebiodiesel · 11-02-2017 7:43pm

I think it was My3cents who I promised to send some vegetable based honing oil to. With all the madness that is Christmas I completely forgot until I was leafing through my notebook. I posted it last week and I hope you got it safely.

jack of all · 11-02-2017 10:08pm

imakebiodiesel wrote: »

I think it was My3cents who I promised to send some vegetable based honing oil to. With all the madness that is Christmas I completely forgot until I was leafing through my notebook. I posted it last week and I hope you got it safely.

I never got mine either, but not to worry, we're all busy!

Old Tool Restoration

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