Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII Read OP For Mod Warnings

Gervais08 · 21-11-2020 1:18am

SusieBlue wrote: »

There is just no excuse for that, it’s unacceptable. The government had 9 months to get their house in order and they have utterly failed.
We are apparently doing all these lockdowns and restrictions to protect the vulnerable and elderly but we aren’t protecting them at all from what I can see.
We have upheld our end of the bargain, but they haven’t delivered what they promised.

The virus is completely out of control in nursing homes and instead of directing effort and attention to that area, Dr Death is instead ‘increasingly concerned’ about young people drinking flat pints outdoors on a bleak wet winter night and wanted to rush in yet another piece of emergency legislation to legally put a stop to it.
Meanwhile our elderly are being completely neglected and let down by the system, and it’s actually scandalous.

The radio silence from the media on this matter is speaking volumes too. The only slight consolation is that sooner or later they will be held accountable for this.

I hope so, I really do - my dad had dementia and some other health issues but he could have had some time longer if they had a decent cleaning protocol at least.

Oberkon · 21-11-2020 1:31am

SusieBlue wrote: »

There is just no excuse for that, it’s unacceptable. The government had 9 months to get their house in order and they have utterly failed.
We are apparently doing all these lockdowns and restrictions to protect the vulnerable and elderly but we aren’t protecting them at all from what I can see.
We have upheld our end of the bargain, but they haven’t delivered what they promised.

The virus is completely out of control in nursing homes and instead of directing effort and attention to that area, Dr Death is instead ‘increasingly concerned’ about young people drinking flat pints outdoors on a bleak wet winter night and wanted to rush in yet another piece of emergency legislation to legally put a stop to it.
Meanwhile our elderly are being completely neglected and let down by the system, and it’s actually scandalous.

The radio silence from the media on this matter is speaking volumes too. The only slight consolation is that sooner or later they will be held accountable for this.

So true , the frustration I feel because of it . Dad in nursing home and now in beaumount hospital. Can’t see him and no end to this ****e
Government and nursing home paralysed with fear

Gervais08 · 21-11-2020 1:33am

Oberkon wrote: »

So true , the frustration I feel because of it . Dad in nursing home and now in beaumount hospital. Can’t see him and no end to this ****e
Government and nursing home paralysed with fear

I wish him all the best.

PTH2009 · 21-11-2020 2:18am

Cork2021 wrote: »

Make what you want from this.... seems positive to me but it could all be smoke and mirrors

https://twitter.com/seandefoe/status/1329825391155027969?s=21

If done on the late late toy show that would be cringe central

Very hard to see this been true

Wolf359f · 21-11-2020 2:32am

Cork2021 wrote: »

This can’t be happening surely? We have with or from but not having it at all is a different story

https://twitter.com/emmasgarrett/status/1329905351249055747?s=21

Is that not Northern Ireland though?
I don't want to seem insensitive, but if she produces a death cert that states the cause of death was covid, then that's wrong.

People need to realize that a death cert doesn't just have a single box for cause of death. It's multiple boxes to be filled out. With Covid being a notified disease (along with 50+ others) it will be mentioned on the death cert (but not always specifically as a cause of death)

HIV is a notified disease, someone HIV+ killed in a car accident will have HIV on the death cert (obviously for caution with autopsy or for funeral homes to take extra precautions) BUT the cause of death would NOT list HIV as cause of death, it would be blunt force trauma due to a road traffic accident etc...

This covid on death cert **** needs to be put to bed ffs.

bodhrandude · 21-11-2020 2:39am

The point I think MickelsonM30 is making is that if folk continue to disregard the restrictions NPHET will use these social media video clips and pics of street drinking to continue with the restrictions, thus defeating the purpose of coming out of the lockdown for Xmas. If the anti-restriction brigade just had a wee bit of cop on and toed the line, just for a week anyway, we might actually see some of NPHET actually smile in one of these press conferences and agree to relax the restrictions a bit. My two cents.

road_high · 21-11-2020 2:40am

Sunday papers might be a worth a read this week...wonder will we see a shift in focus and narrative at last? St. Tony in particular seemed to go down like a lead balloon this week with the public- his extreme arrogance and dismissive demeanour is finally starting to irk even diehard lockdown devotees. This glorified GP is swaging around like something you'd see in some far flung Autocracy - time he was put in his place and re-control was taken of our democracy.

road_high · 21-11-2020 2:43am

bodhrandude wrote: »

The point I think MickelsonM30 is making is that if folk continue to disregard the restrictions NPHET will use these social media video clips and pics of street drinking to continue with the restrictions, thus defeating the purpose of coming out of the lockdown for Xmas. If the anti-restriction brigade just had a wee bit of cop on and toed the line, just for a week anyway, we might actually see some of NPHET actually smile in one of these press conferences and agree to relax the restrictions a bit. My two cents.

A ridiculous two cents- we've had 9 months of this rubbish. I couldn't give a flying ****e if NPHET are impressed or not (who cares?). The more of these videos the better as it shows these jokers they no longer have control- unless they are going to implement a full on police state (good luck with that btw) their dictats are now piss

46 Long · 21-11-2020 7:08am

Elianna Miniature Planet wrote: »

Do folks not understand that this is what is causing restrictions and causing them to be extended? Applauding these behaviours is essentially voting for continue restrictions. We all want to get back to normal asap and the way to do that is respect the restrictions.

People have had it up to here with this ridiculous charade. A nation of five million people living in lockdown because of 30 people in ICUs.

the kelt · 21-11-2020 9:45am

Gervais08 wrote: »

My father’s nursing home we’re responsible for 90% of the cases in our entire county one week.

We did everything right and they let that virus in which killed him and four other residents.

And they blame pubs and people going the shops ???,

I’m really really sorry for your loss.

And your point is true, it’s infuriating. Once again we find ourselves in lockdown like earlier in the year, once again the powers that be have made a complete and utter mess of managing and protecting the most vulnerable, once again nursing homes and hospitals are not being protected by those that should be protecting them, once again rather than answer questions the power that be distract and attempt to focus the attention away from these failings by blaming joe public, look over there at those people drinking in the street, look over there at those people working who shouldn’t be.

And of course once again as evidenced only a few back enough people still fall for this bullsh1t believing yes it’s all the fault of the joe public, please give me more, punish me more.

walus · 21-11-2020 12:00pm

46 Long wrote: »

People have had it up to here with this ridiculous charade. A nation of five million people living in lockdown because of 30 people in ICUs.

Of course, because the deaths will follow, right hmmm?

I wonder how many lives have been saved by these level 5 restriction at the cost of 1.5 bn...

road_high · 21-11-2020 12:07pm

walus wrote: »

Of course, because the deaths will follow, right hmmm?

I wonder how many lives have been saved by these level 5 restriction at the cost of 1.5 bn...

We had a TCD Ivory tower academic on Primetime the other night- could not quantify whatsoever the supposed “value” of closing the likes of shops and restaurants (this was a Scientist folks- hellbent recommending measures she could not quantify)...- if I stood up in front of customers recommending them to do something and could not quantify the benefits I’d be rightly laughed out of the room.
But she empathised with them which was clearly made it all worth it. Wonder if she will ever be on the PUP?

funnydoggy · 21-11-2020 12:09pm

FintanMcluskey · 21-11-2020 12:51pm

road_high wrote: »

We had a TCD Ivory tower academic on Primetime the other night- could not quantify whatsoever the supposed “value” of closing the likes of shops and restaurants (this was a Scientist folks- hellbent recommending measures she could not quantify)...- if I stood up in front of customers recommending them to do something and could not quantify the benefits I’d be rightly laughed out of the room.
But she empathised with them which was clearly made it all worth it. Wonder if she will ever be on the PUP?

I’m astounded at the lack of accountability for what they are saying.

It’s perhaps the greatest distinction between the private and public sector.

An apprentice tradesman will be held at far greater accountability than those overpaid peacocks

road_high · 21-11-2020 1:21pm

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I’m astounded at the lack of accountability for what they are saying.

It’s perhaps the greatest distinction between the private and public sector.

An apprentice tradesman will be held at far greater accountability than those overpaid peacocks

And what’s more of it was going to cost them a shed load of lost money for no appreciable benefit I’d likely be lynched. But it’s fine for these lot as you say. Some scientist

DellyBelly · 21-11-2020 1:25pm

Minute I saw this headline https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-funeral-video-shows-large-crowd-in-breach-of-level-5-rules-1.4415039 I knew what part of society was involved. Pavee point come out to condemn this.. Yeah right. Another reason restrictions won't be easing any time soon..

normanoffside · 21-11-2020 1:27pm

According to this, only 64 of our current hospitalised cases came into Hospital with covid.

The other 211 acquired it in hospital.

So yeah, it's the fault of the young ones drinking on South William street or the people trying to make a living going to work?

https://twitter.com/RiochtConor2/status/1330122887785828352

patnor1011 · 21-11-2020 1:43pm

Someone new, preferably not politically aligned ie without the baggage should start new anti lockdown and anti restriction party.
I will bet good money they score so high in the next election we may finaly get some change we really need after decades of all the same FFG trickery.
SF is way too far left and pretty much the same than FFGto be ever taken as a change from old guard for real.

road_high · 21-11-2020 1:45pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

Someone new, preferably not politically aligned ie without the baggage should start new anti lockdown and anti restriction party.
I will bet good money they score so high in the next election we may finaly get some change we really need after decades of all the same FFG trickery.
SF is way too far left and pretty much the same than FFGto be ever taken as a change from old guard for real.

I’d vote for them in a heartbeat. This dwarfs all other issues for me as it’s so fundamental to everything else going forward

facehugger99 · 21-11-2020 1:54pm

normanoffside wrote: »

According to this, only 64 of our current hospitalised cases came into Hospital with covid.

The other 211 acquired it in hospital.

So yeah, it's the fault of the young ones drinking on South William street or the people trying to make a living going to work?

https://twitter.com/RiochtConor2/status/1330122887785828352

I would love to see a legal challenge to the restrictions from some of the so called non-essential sectors.

They have had their businesses destroyed to distract attention from the chronic mismanagement of the HSE.

patnor1011 · 21-11-2020 7:16pm

‘No evidence’ that asymptomatic Covid-19 cases were infectious, analysis of post-lockdown Wuhan concludes

A paper that analyzed the results of a massive post-lockdown Covid-19 testing drive that included nearly every eligible resident of Wuhan, China has found no evidence that positive cases without symptoms spread the disease.
The analysis, published in the scientific journal Nature, looked at the results of a screening initiative held between May and June in Wuhan, the city where the first cases of the novel coronavirus were detected in late 2019. The origins of the virus have yet to be determined, with new studies suggesting that the disease could have been in Italy as early as September last year.

Nearly 10 million people were tested, consisting of 92 percent of all residents aged six years or older.

Incredibly, no new symptomatic cases were registered, and only 300 asymptomatic cases were detected. Subsequent tests of 1,174 close contacts of the asymptomatic cases found resulted in no new positives.

There is “no evidence that the identified asymptomatic positive cases were infectious,” the paper said, adding that the results of the massive screening program could help health authorities “adjust prevention and control strategies in the post-lockdown period.”

The analysis seems to confirm preliminary findings that were released during the screening program. Professor Lu Zuxun, from Wuhan’s Huazhong University of Science & Technology, said back in June that there was currently no evidence that asymptomatic people were passing the virus to other people, but cautioned at the time against drawing broad conclusions.

The paper’s authors acknowledged that previous studies had found evidence that asymptomatic individuals were infectious and could become symptomatic later, but theorized that Wuhan residents still testing positive for the virus after the city’s strict lockdown had a “low quantity of viral loads” and therefore were unable to pass the illness on to other people.

Wuhan was placed under a strict lockdown lasting more than 70 days. The tight regulations essentially cut off the city from the rest of China, with only one person from each household allowed to leave their residential compound for a maximum of two hours.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w

Someone needs to let Tony know....

_Kaiser_ · 21-11-2020 9:42pm

^^ that sounds like a fundamental game changer, no?

If anyone who is asymptomatic doesn't spread it then it makes any argument for lockdown or indeed almost all of the restrictions even more untenable.

The approach then would need to be that anyone with symptoms isolates and calls their GP to arrange a test. Everyone else gets back to normal.

Or am I missing something?

Quantum Erasure · 21-11-2020 9:48pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

Someone new, preferably not politically aligned ie without the baggage should start new anti lockdown and anti restriction party.
I will bet good money they score so high in the next election we may finaly get some change we really need after decades of all the same FFG trickery.
SF is way too far left and pretty much the same than FFGto be ever taken as a change from old guard for real.

If were still in lockdown by the next election, we'll be ****ed one way or the other

Whatsisname · 21-11-2020 9:51pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

^^ that sounds like a fundamental game changer, no?

If anyone who is asymptomatic doesn't spread it then it makes any argument for lockdown or indeed almost all of the restrictions even more untenable.

The approach then would need to be that anyone with symptoms isolates and calls their GP to arrange a test. Everyone else gets back to normal.

Or am I missing something?

The W.H.O said in June that they think asymptomatic transmission is very rare. They immediately backtracked the next day after a hysterical response by the media.

acequion · 21-11-2020 10:31pm

Gervais08 wrote: »

My father’s nursing home we’re responsible for 90% of the cases in our entire county one week.

We did everything right and they let that virus in which killed him and four other residents.

And they blame pubs and people going the shops ???,

I'm really sorry for your loss Gervais08. I think you're in my county and I think I know the nursing home in question and it really is beyond disgraceful that you and others are losing loved ones to this disease a full 8 months on from the first nursing home crisis. I fully share the anger that has been posted here at the HSE, Dr Death and NPHET, who I despise. Not least for their arrogance and their manipulative blame game on ordinary people who just want to get on with their lives.

It's heartening to see so many posters here condemn them outright and condemn these disproportionate restrictions which are mostly useless and very damaging.

froog · 21-11-2020 10:40pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

^^ that sounds like a fundamental game changer, no?

If anyone who is asymptomatic doesn't spread it then it makes any argument for lockdown or indeed almost all of the restrictions even more untenable.

The approach then would need to be that anyone with symptoms isolates and calls their GP to arrange a test. Everyone else gets back to normal.

Or am I missing something?

i mean we had that and more in level 3 and it didn't work.

JRant · 21-11-2020 11:19pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

^^ that sounds like a fundamental game changer, no?

If anyone who is asymptomatic doesn't spread it then it makes any argument for lockdown or indeed almost all of the restrictions even more untenable.

The approach then would need to be that anyone with symptoms isolates and calls their GP to arrange a test. Everyone else gets back to normal.

Or am I missing something?

Complete game changer in the sense that we should just go back to the tried and trusted method of diagnosing an illness, ie. a clinical diagnosis and then a test. No symptoms = no tests.

JRant · 21-11-2020 11:21pm

froog wrote: »

i mean we had that and more in level 3 and it didn't work.

How so?
We got nowhere near the numbers in hospital to warrant a lockdown. At most we had a 400 people in hospital and around 40 in ICU. That was with 1200 "cases" a day.

Stormyteacup · 21-11-2020 11:54pm

froog wrote: »

i mean we had that and more in level 3 and it didn't work.

But if this study is trustworthy (different debate), then anyone traced as a close contact who is asymptomatic need not be tested or restrict movements as they would be a danger to no one. End of chain.

That’s if I understand it correctly.

I can’t see how asymptomatic and presymtomatic cases be distinguished from one another?

Although if they could pinpoint the threshold of viral load below which you will not transmit the virus, then that would be of enormous benefit. You wouldn’t need to know if someone was presymptomatic or asymptomatic - just apply current methods for track, trace and restrict for higher than threshold viral load. You would need to do a second test at an interval to see if viral load is increasing or not - if not, end of chain, free to go.

Not possible to do with our current set up, but in China where their Covid systems are not under pressure and if we could rely on their findings - and they discover an accepted threshold limit, then surely that would drastically alter policies to minimise spread.

JRant · 22-11-2020 1:26am

Stormyteacup wrote: »

But if this study is trustworthy (different debate), then anyone traced as a close contact who is asymptomatic need not be tested or restrict movements as they would be a danger to no one. End of chain.

That’s if I understand it correctly.

I can’t see how asymptomatic and presymtomatic cases be distinguished from one another?

Although if they could pinpoint the threshold of viral load below which you will not transmit the virus, then that would be of enormous benefit. You wouldn’t need to know if someone was presymptomatic or asymptomatic - just apply current methods for track, trace and restrict for higher than threshold viral load. You would need to do a second test at an interval to see if viral load is increasing or not - if not, end of chain, free to go.

Not possible to do with our current set up, but in China where their Covid systems are not under pressure and if we could rely on their findings - and they discover an accepted threshold limit, then surely that would drastically alter policies to minimise spread.

My understanding was asymptomatic never show signs of infection while presymptomatic develop symptoms after X number of days. The evidence to say presymptomatic people spread the disease is not concrete at all.

CruelSummer · 22-11-2020 8:43am

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/private-texts-sent-by-tony-holohan-to-donnelly-day-before-nphets-level-5-lockdown-recommendation-are-revealed-39775043.html

“ Nphet's advice that Sunday evening to go to Level 5 for four weeks was controversially rejected by the Coalition on Monday, October 5.

However, the worsening case numbers forced ministers to eventually accept Nphet's advice two weeks later and impose Level 5 restrictions for six weeks.”

Looks like another hit job article on the Government & Stephen Donnelly ahead of crucial decisions.
Donnelly seems next to useless and not heavily involved in decision making. But why would anyone want to leak or obtain this information now. Now we’ve a week of he said this/he said that - when no one gives a dam.
I’m suspicious Holohan also has ‘information’ on Varadkar and Martin also from their time as Ministers of health. Which is why I think call a General Election, we can’t be led by people being held to ransom by a group of advisory doctors.

CruelSummer · 22-11-2020 8:46am

And while I’m here, this article is stating Holohan wants to extend Level 5.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/christmas-decisions-looming-as-tensions-grow-39775018.html

Good Lord, can someone disband NPHET? Indefinite lockdown until there’s a vaccine is Dr Holohan’s only card and he’s played it twice on the public now.

NIMAN · 22-11-2020 8:51am

There is not a chance of L5 being extended, the Gov would be signing their own death warrant for the next election.

The people are expecting to be able to go do Xmas shopping etc come 2nd Dec, and I can't see the Gov stopping them.

Dr Tony will just have to bite his tongue.

CruelSummer · 22-11-2020 9:04am

NIMAN wrote: »

There is not a chance of L5 being extended, the Gov would be signing their own death warrant for the next election.

The people are expecting to be able to go do Xmas shopping etc come 2nd Dec, and I can't see the Gov stopping them.

Dr Tony will just have to bite his tongue.

I just read the full article - it seems that’s what Dr Holohan is ‘thinking’ but the Government are thinking differently. Will we have the media vilifying the Government ‘for going against NPHET’ once again? This could get very messy. Especially with members of NPHET and also the Nutty Professor group (McConkey, Killeen, Ryan, Staines, Scally) constantly on the airwaves and social media platforms hounding us with lockdown, Zero Covid and other unachievable nonsense.

facehugger99 · 22-11-2020 9:12am

JRant wrote: »

Complete game changer in the sense that we should just go back to the tried and trusted method of diagnosing an illness, ie. a clinical diagnosis and then a test. No symptoms = no tests.

Also, no symptom = no case.

This nonsense of counting people as 'cases', splashing it as a headline and using it to justify lockdowns, needs to stop immediately.

MadYaker · 22-11-2020 10:22am

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/private-texts-sent-by-tony-holohan-to-donnelly-day-before-nphets-level-5-lockdown-recommendation-are-revealed-39775043.html

“ Nphet's advice that Sunday evening to go to Level 5 for four weeks was controversially rejected by the Coalition on Monday, October 5.

However, the worsening case numbers forced ministers to eventually accept Nphet's advice two weeks later and impose Level 5 restrictions for six weeks.”

Looks like another hit job article on the Government & Stephen Donnelly ahead of crucial decisions.
Donnelly seems next to useless and not heavily involved in decision making. But why would anyone want to leak or obtain this information now. Now we’ve a week of he said this/he said that - when no one gives a dam.
I’m suspicious Holohan also has ‘information’ on Varadkar and Martin also from their time as Ministers of health. Which is why I think call a General Election, we can’t be led by people being held to ransom by a group of advisory doctors.

Any evidence of that or did you just dream it up? :pac: If you honestly that is likely your logical reasoning skills need work. But then again, this is the restrictions thread :rolleyes:

drunkmonkey · 22-11-2020 10:45am

NIMAN wrote: »

There is not a chance of L5 being extended, the Gov would be signing their own death warrant for the next election.

There's absolutely every chance. Sam McConkey is talking levels 6 - 10.
Our dear leaders will take mountains of debt over ignoring health advice every time.

GazzaL · 22-11-2020 11:22am

It's clear at this stage that an increasing majority of people are just getting on with their lives.

dalyboy · 22-11-2020 11:29am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There's absolutely every chance. Sam McConkey is talking levels 6 - 10.
Our dear leaders will take mountains of debt over ignoring health advice every time.

Whose listening to Mcdonkey anymore ?

He’s a conspiracy quack with his wild notions of 80-120k deaths back at the start. He’s an out and out pseudoscientist with his outrageous claims.

Level 8 ? Is that where we are all forcibly tied up in our houses being fed intravenously (for our own protection in case get a virus with 0.27% chance of us dying of)

drunkmonkey · 22-11-2020 11:37am

The media are hedging their bets, he's been trotted out a few times this week. 3 options on the table, no easing of restrictions, some easing of restrictions or an increase of restrictions.
NPHET will be calling for more restrictions as Level 5 hasn't had the effect they wanted. Don't rule it out the kite flying has started.

Pitch n Putt · 22-11-2020 11:39am

facehugger99 wrote: »

Also, no symptom = no case.

This nonsense of counting people as 'cases', splashing it as a headline and using it to justify lockdowns, needs to stop immediately.

Since June all decisions should have been based solely on hospital admissions from Covid only.

Not this bull**** case numbers from asymptomatic cases in the main.

It’s time to close all test centres and get on with life. We all had no worries about this last December January February when it was floating around the island.

It’s gone to extreme levels of overreaction and people are fearful beyond belief.

Ashleigh1986 · 22-11-2020 11:40am

The kite flying is under way .
On the news this morning .... Government considering letting all pubs open until 10 pm from December .

drunkmonkey · 22-11-2020 11:43am

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Since June all decisions should have been based solely on hospital admissions with Covid only.

It should be based on from Covid, not with Covid, agree with everything else you said.

normanoffside · 22-11-2020 11:47am

How has the sindo been able to get screenshots of text messages between Dr Death and the Minister of Health?

https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1330443719330443264

CruelSummer · 22-11-2020 11:52am

MadYaker wrote: »

Any evidence of that or did you just dream it up? :pac: If you honestly that is likely your logical reasoning skills need work. But then again, this is the restrictions thread :rolleyes:

I stated I was 'suspicious' of it - throwing the idea out there. There can be no clear reason as to why our Government would allow some Doctor in an advisory group play Taoiseach/President on a daily basis.
By the way, 'this is the Restrictions thread' is exactly where this debate belongs - as we're discussing what Restrictions will be relaxed/maintained. The days of labelling people calling for Restrictions to be reduced with insults e.g. Tin hatters, right wingers / Gemma O'Doherty's are long gone - unless you want to label most of the Irish population that is.

zerosugarbuzz · 22-11-2020 11:55am

normanoffside wrote: »

How has the sindo been able to get screenshots of text messages between Dr Death and the Minister of Health?

https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1330443719330443264

Good question, cant blame Leo the Leak on this one.

Royale with Cheese · 22-11-2020 11:55am

normanoffside wrote: »

How has the sindo been able to get screenshots of text messages between Dr Death and the Minister of Health?

https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1330443719330443264

Leo leaked it, obviously.

46 Long · 22-11-2020 11:56am

Cervical Tony's position is completely untenable if he's leaking bloody text message conversations with the Minister for Health to the public.

46 Long · 22-11-2020 11:59am

England going into even tougher restrictions when the current lockdown ends on December 2nd

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/covid-19-england-to-enter-tougher-lockdown-regime-after-current-measures-end-1.4416045

drunkmonkey · 22-11-2020 12:00pm

It took him 2hrs to reply, pretty clear he doesn't like him.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII Read OP For Mod Warnings