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Running Diesel cars on Vegatable Oil?
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you could probably swap "post oil" for "post US" too if you wanted to.Aside: I loved the quote from a Fiorsceal episode a month or so back about the end of the oil era. "I think the post oil era will be a very nice place to live. For the survivors anyway."
anyway, back on topic.
where's the cheapest place to buy veg oil in meath/dublin?
in the UK it seems to be the 1L bottles of own brand in tesco's (seemingly cheaper than the likes of aldi & lidl at present) but I'm just curious of prices in Ireland.
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well, I've done it.
I picked up the new motor at the weekend and have just put 15L of tesco's veg oil in it last night with about 60L of diesel and it's running like a dream so far.
They only had 5x 3L bottles of the stuff in the local tesco, so I had to make do, I had planned on using about 30-40L of veg oil, but I guess it's better to start low and work your way up, just in case.
The car is a 1996 2.8TD Jap import Pajero and part of the reason for getting this motor in particular was knowing that it will run well long term on both veg oil and biodiesel with very little in the way of modifications.
to start with it'll be SVO from the supermarkets, but then I'll migrate to cleaning my own WVO and then on to (hopefully) home made bio diesel once I've gathered enough info to do it properly (and safely).
Anyway, she's running like a dream already, the engine is quieter and more responsive and there is only a tiny bit of a non-diesel smell from the back end, altho I expect that to increase with higher ratio's of oil in the tank.
i know some paj's have problems with black smoke due to the EGR valve being clagged up but i have a particuarly well maintained car so I never had anything but white smoke anyway, although I've read that veg oil helps alleviate the black smoke.
things I know to keep an eye out for are fuel filter blockages as the veg oil will clean out the diesel clag from the tank and pipes and it can get stuck in the filter, and also long term some of the rubber seals and pipes can be degraded as SVO is a little bit acidic. If it's a problem though there are veg oil safe replacements available.
it will only be an issue while i'm using SVO tho, as bio-d is made pH neutral anyway as part of the conversion process.
wish me luck
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well, I've done it.
I picked up the new motor at the weekend and have just put 15L of tesco's veg oil in it last night with about 60L of diesel and it's running like a dream so far.
They only had 5x 3L bottles of the stuff in the local tesco, so I had to make do, I had planned on using about 30-40L of veg oil, but I guess it's better to start low and work your way up, just in case.
The car is a 1996 2.8TD Jap import Pajero and part of the reason for getting this motor in particular was knowing that it will run well long term on both veg oil and biodiesel with very little in the way of modifications.
to start with it'll be SVO from the supermarkets, but then I'll migrate to cleaning my own WVO and then on to (hopefully) home made bio diesel once I've gathered enough info to do it properly (and safely).
Anyway, she's running like a dream already, the engine is quieter and more responsive and there is only a tiny bit of a non-diesel smell from the back end, altho I expect that to increase with higher ratio's of oil in the tank.
i know some paj's have problems with black smoke due to the EGR valve being clagged up but i have a particuarly well maintained car so I never had anything but white smoke anyway, although I've read that veg oil helps alleviate the black smoke.
things I know to keep an eye out for are fuel filter blockages as the veg oil will clean out the diesel clag from the tank and pipes and it can get stuck in the filter, and also long term some of the rubber seals and pipes can be degraded as SVO is a little bit acidic. If it's a problem though there are veg oil safe replacements available.
it will only be an issue while i'm using SVO tho, as bio-d is made pH neutral anyway as part of the conversion process.
wish me luck
Fair play to you vibe666. You mentioned that the Pajero was your choice because it required very little modifications to run on veg oil. Which mods to you have to make?
Keep us updated how you get on.0 -
it depends on how much oil you want to use. this time of year you can use up to 30% veg oil with no conversion, but in the summer, or in warmer parts of the world anything up to 70-80% without modification, although there's some question as to how long you can do this for without causing engine problems.
the general consensus is that long term the only real option is a twin tank system where you start on normal diesel for 5 mins then switch to 100% veg oil for your journey before switching back for a minute or two so the fuel system in the vehicle has normal diesel flushed through so it starts okay next time after it's cold.
other options are fuel heaters of various sorts, either electrical or using the heated engine coolant to heat the fuel before it gets to the pump and/or injectors.
fortunately for me, I've found a local supplier of 'proper' certified bio-diesel (from WVO) at 95c per litre (duty paid) so I might not bother as this will make my fuel costs more than acceptable and makes me 100% legal on the road and makes the car 100% carbon neutral so I'm happy.
no conversion needed at all (on my Pajero and a lot of other cars) to run it on 100% BD either, which is a bonus.
I had her running on 30% veg oil for 2 tanks but she was slightly lumpy on that. No such problems with BD at all, started fine this morning on around 95% BD (a tiny bit of dino diesel left in the tank when i filled her up with BD) and the engine is running smoother than when i was on 100% dino.
anyway, I'm happy as can be with the results using biodiesel so I guess that's me done.
if anyone still wants to use SVO or WVO then I'd recommend visiting http://fattywagons.com and giving their inline injector and fuel pump heaters a go as that's the direction I had been leaning before I gave the bio-diesel a go.0 -
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how about one of these bad boys to stick on your FJ40 chassis?AngryHippie wrote: »Now to find a body shell !!!
http://www.offroaders.com/directory/custom/TLC-Icon.htm
on the subject of running bio diesle, I'm a few days in now and I have to say the Paj has never run more smoothly, quietly or with more power than it does on BD. I'm well chuffed,it's head and shoulders above normal diesel in all the right places.
now all I need is some nice big stickers proclaiming my 'bio power' to put all over the car so I don't get people looking at me like I'm a prick for driving a big environment ruining 4x4 around dublin & meath (work & home). although anyone who's driven through meath recently anywhere near the M3 roadworks would probably agree that just living here is enough to warrant something more beefy than a Primera.
I took my g/f's brother out in it for a bit of "off roading" (well okay, it was just a big muddy field!) over the weekend and I've left all the dirt on it for now so it at least looks like it's being used for it's intended purpose. 0 -
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With the exception of a few weeks here and there, Ive been mostly running my car (DI)
from 10% - 100% pure plant oil
Mostly 10 - 15% and the 100% was once off
Currently 20% approx
I do use additives to try keep the injectors clear and I use a cetane booster
Now with the price of additives it probably doesnt work out any cheaper with such a low % but Im kinda just trying to push the envelope!
No injector seal leaks yet which is suprising (seems to be a normal thing to happen even on bio diesel) Slight loss of power at highest revs when on 100%
Engine slightly quieter when running over 15%
That yuk diesel smoke smell disappears above 15% too
If 15-20% was safe in a direct injection engine I would always run that kind of % just to get rid of the diesel smell and clatter!!
May not be safe though
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i seem to remember reading somewhere that some pugs have an electrically heated fuel pump, might be something to look for.
things i've learnt during my LOTS of research.
the glow plug inline heaters are bad in the long run and can/will burn the oil and leave nasty deposits over time.
old pre-97 (ish) motors are best as you can be reasonably sure of an old style diesel engine.
old mercs and jap 4x4's as well as some french motors are good choices, but make sure you research your preferred vehicle to find out for sure.
stay away from lucas fuel pumps.
heat the fuel before it gets to the fuel pump to stop it clogging up from the viscosity of the fuel. also consider heating it again at the injector lines to keep that end of things running smoothly.
biodiesel is better than veg oil in terms of not buggering up your fuel pump, but you might still want to think about some minor conversions depending on what you'll be putting it in.
the internet is the best tool you'll find for researching the whole thing, youre not the first to try it, so learn from the experience of others. 0 -
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Remember the veg oil must be AT LEAST 10% cheaper to break even as many cars will get 10% less fuel economy on veg oil because of its lower cetane value.
So include the risks to your vehicle and your not doing so well at 1 euro a litre of veg
unless its an indirect injection that will run no problem on veg0 -
tried acetone (just used cheap 99% acetone based nail polish), 100ml in 92 litre tank of bio-diesel, didn't make any difference. might see about a tenners worth of unleaded instead, see how that goes.
EDIT: that's on 100% WVO based bio-diesel btw. she runs fine about 95% of the time (96 2.8L Pajero TD) but is occasionally lumpy at times which I've put down to a minor problem with the fuel pump seal from running on a 30% SVO mix initially. It's a known problem with the 2.8L Paj's tho, and I half expected it but figured I'd give it a go anyway it just didn't work out for me.
Now I just need to find a decent mechanic that can replace the seal for me, it's not nearly as easy a job as you'd think it would be.
like I said tho, she's okay for the most part, but it's going to need doing at some point soonish, hence my sig. 0 -
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you'd want to start with 20-30% oil, not the other way around. if it likes it then up it 10% or so each time you fill up.
I'd also recommend only testing it on half tankfuls till you're confident on the levels of SVO she's happy to run on as if you have reliablity problems (not unheard of) its a hell of a lot easier to just fill it to the brim with diesel to thin it out enough so that it's not an issue than it is to have to drain the fuel tank.
did a quick google search and a couple of sites popped up with your motor listed for twin tank conversions which would seem to indicate that it'll run fine on some % of SVO regardless so you should be grand to at least give it a go.
don't forget to let us all know how you get on, I'm sure there's others out there just waiting for one more excuse to do it.0 -
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Not shaw if this is the right place to tell this but hear goes,
Put about 15lts of bio at 30 % in too fillups in my astra and the thing just
stops on root. So get it towed to a garage were am told the pump is gone
no fuel going to injectors . After much debate re coned pump fitted and
back in business. G.M engine running a bosch pump and i had been told it could run on old chip oil so how did it stop working when same type of pump is fitted to V.Ws . Does any one out there have any answers.0 -
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kev ( Kerry ) wrote: » Not shaw if this is the right place to tell this but hear goes,
Put about 15lts of bio at 30 % in too fillups in my astra and the thing just
stops on root. So get it towed to a garage were am told the pump is gone
no fuel going to injectors . After much debate re coned pump fitted and
back in business. G.M engine running a bosch pump and i had been told it could run on old chip oil so how did it stop working when same type of pump is fitted to V.Ws . Does any one out there have any answers.
Can we clarify what you mean by "bio"
Do you mean Biodiesel
or do you mean vegetable oil?
Biodiesel is made using alcohol, alot of the bosch pumps have sensors that get stripped when alcohol is too high a % in the fuel killing the pump.
vegetable oil can clog fuel filters (it cleans out the fuel tank and fuel lines dragging all the dirt to the fuel pump). The pump can get starved of fuel then.
But 30% veg oil shouldnt make much of a difference. Was is used vegetable oil or unused?
What type of oil did you use? Also The veg oil can shrink fuel pump seals - was there any fuel leaking? Up to 30% in two fill ups doesnt soudn excessive, but maybe a warning to people following on this thread if its the seals that went.
Did they tell you what part of the pump failed?
What pump model? Bosch Vp37 possibly?0 -
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