Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page

montgo · 22-09-2016 9:11pm

Help required in deciphering the cause of death on the 2nd death record,

Male, married, (age) 170

, ???, Angela (should be Amelia/Amy) McGrath daughter, present at death, Farran.

Thx

josip · 22-09-2016 10:25pm

I can't help with any of the difficult parts I'm afraid.

Acute Staph?
Sulla ??? ear/air?

montgo · 22-09-2016 10:49pm

Many thanks,

Forgot to include "farmer" and the last word under cause of death is probably "cert" as in certified.

pedroeibar1 · 22-09-2016 11:22pm

montgo wrote: »

Many thanks,

Forgot to include "farmer" and the last word under cause of death is probably "cert" as in certified.

On phone so Excuse brevity. Acute phthysis uvula paralysis. Cert.

montgo · 22-09-2016 11:27pm

Well done, Pedro.

Many thanks.

spurious · 22-09-2016 11:44pm

I think the age, rather than 170, is 1 y.o. - could it be?

josip · 22-09-2016 11:49pm

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

On phone so Excuse brevity. Acute phthysis uvula paralysis. Cert.

josip · 22-09-2016 11:51pm

spurious wrote: »

I think the age, rather than 170, is 1 y.o. - could it be?

Would conflict with being a married farmer.

tabbey · 23-09-2016 10:12am

spurious wrote: »

I think the age, rather than 170, is 1 y.o. - could it be?

I don't think he would have been a married farmer at 1 year old.

This is a case of the registrar mishearing; seventeen, then correcting it to seventy, and forgetting to delete the "1".

tabbey · 23-09-2016 5:08pm

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Acute phthysis uvula paralysis. Cert.

Cert for medically certified is certain, but I don't think it is pthisis. Paralysis woud not be associated with pthisis (TB).

It might perhaps be Acute Pharingitis, ...... paralysis. Cert.

The third word was probably something on the medical certificate that the registrar could not read, and took a guess, writing a word that does not exist.

It was quite possible for people to die from pharyngitis before antibiotics. Two of my people died of laryngitis at 29, and tonsilitis at 28. These organs swell up and ultimately choke the person to death, like slow strangulation, the victim gasping for breath, becoming weaker and weaker, until their last.

spurious · 23-09-2016 6:28pm

How about 'sudden' paralysis?

tabbey · 23-09-2016 7:53pm

spurious wrote: »

How about 'sudden' paralysis?

Could be.

pedroeibar1 · 23-09-2016 10:23pm

tabbey wrote: »

Cert for medically certified is certain, but I don't think it is pthisis. Paralysis woud not be associated with pthisis (TB).

It might perhaps be Acute Pharingitis, ...... paralysis. Cert.

TB could easily lead to throat infection IMO hence the match with the uvula paralysis. However, I think you are right; pharyngitis and uvula paralysis would seem to go together as the pharynx is next to the uvula. The paralysis occurs during the onset of diphtheria, a disease located in the throat. Livestock are a carrier of diphtheria, so that matches the ‘farmer’ occupation. Also the age of the victim (70 in 1945) would make it unlikely he had been immunised.

Amazing what geno makes one learn: I've no medical training but I did some 'disease research' when putting together notes on a half third cousin eight times removed who was an early supporter and practitioner of inoculation long before Jenner was credited with it!

montgo · 26-09-2016 9:38am

Have a look at the birth for Maurice Power on 31 December 1872.

Confirmation of the father's name and the informant pls? By the way, Maurice was baptised on 28 December, 1972:)

josip · 26-09-2016 9:47am

Father Thomas. I'd only be guessing at the informant.

Mez1982 · 26-09-2016 9:51am

I'm seeing Father as Thomas also and Denis as the first name of informant. It also looks like same surname as father?

montgo · 26-09-2016 9:59am

The father's first name looks like Thomas to me but his name was actually James. The informant's name could be Denis but it has what appears to be father underneath!!
thanks

pedroeibar1 · 26-09-2016 10:20am

Father - Thomas Power, Pallas.
Informant - Denis Power Father Pallas.

The 14th January 1873 was a Tuesday - maybe the Registrar was still hung over?

montgo · 26-09-2016 10:24am

That makes at least 3 errors on the birth cert! He or the informant were having a bad day....

josip · 26-09-2016 10:30am

montgo wrote: »

That makes at least 3 errors on the birth cert! He or the informant were having a bad day....

Could all of those have been transcription errors from the original parish record?

tabbey · 26-09-2016 12:35pm

montgo wrote: »

Have a look at the birth for Maurice Power on 31 December 1872.

Confirmation of the father's name and the informant pls? By the way, Maurice was baptised on 28 December, 1972:)

What's three days among friends?, better than three years!

The name recorded as father is definitely Thomas

That recorded as informant looks most like Denis, but could conceivably be construed as James, at a stretch.

The fact that informant, Denis/ James is father, rather than Thomas, is clearly an error.

It does not surprise me, I have been saying for years that there are errors in all types of records, some can be proven, some not.

In this case, the question is, which entry is the error, or which is correct?

josip · 26-09-2016 12:43pm

tabbey wrote: »

What's three days among friends?, better than three years!

The name recorded as father is definitely Thomas

That recorded as informant looks most like Denis, but could conceivably be construed as James, at a stretch.

The fact that informant, Denis/ James is father, rather than Thomas, is clearly an error.

It does not surprise me, I have been saying for years that there are errors in all types of records, some can be proven, some not.

In this case, the question is, which entry is the error, or which is correct?

Cross reference with the birth of Maurice's siblings (if any)

spurious · 26-09-2016 12:58pm

I have a number of ancestors whose church baptism I can find, but whose civil birth record gives their birth date as months later, sometimes in another year. I also have informants with the wrong relationship to the deceased stated - nephew instead of grandson, for example.

montgo · 26-09-2016 1:57pm

It would appear Maurice was the only child of this couple. The parish register recorded the father as James and the church marriage also recorded James Power who married Catherine/Kate English. Unfortunately, the image of civil marriage record is not available but it would appear that the civil record was also for a James and the death record is for James with Maurice as informant.

Many thanks

P. Breathnach · 26-09-2016 6:11pm

spurious wrote: »

I have a number of ancestors whose church baptism I can find, but whose civil birth record gives their birth date as months later, sometimes in another year...

That's not uncommon.

Children were generally baptised without delay, sometimes even on the day they were born.

People were more casual about the registration process, especially if it involved travelling to wherever the registrar's office was located. There was a financial penalty for late registration, and the standard way of avoiding it was to declare a date that avoided the penalty.

tabbey · 27-09-2016 8:53am

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That's not uncommon.

Children were generally baptised without delay, sometimes even on the day they were born.

People were more casual about the registration process, especially if it involved travelling to wherever the registrar's office was located. There was a financial penalty for late registration, and the standard way of avoiding it was to declare a date that avoided the penalty.

Indeed I suspect that some registrars advised the parents to do this . I came across a dispensary doctor who resigned his registrar role in Co Louth in the 1870s, because he felt fining people for late registration was incompatible with his doctor / patient relationship. As no other doctor was found to undertake this duty, he was persuaded to stay.

dylbert · 29-09-2016 2:36pm

Hi, I need some help deciphering some handwriting, the first entry for the marriage of Henry Byrne and Susan Verdon, what is his profession and address?

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1923/09179/5320129

Thanks, Dylbert.

oceanclub · 29-09-2016 2:48pm

dylbert wrote: »

Hi, I need some help deciphering some handwriting, the first entry for the marriage of Henry Byrne and Susan Verdon, what is his profession and address?

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1923/09179/5320129

Thanks, Dylbert.

87 Corporation Buildings (off Foley Street Dublin at the time). Could it be "wine porter"? (*) His father was a coal porter, so definitely porter of some type but not sure what.

(*) It was an actual job: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=154235.0

P.

mickmackey1 · 29-09-2016 2:48pm

Wine porter (?) and 87 Corporation Buildings.

dylbert · 29-09-2016 3:06pm

Great guys thanks.

rhapsody · 01-10-2016 10:55pm

I wonder if anyone can read the note on the right hand side of Michael Fay's birth (hopefully attached, but if not, please search 14-6-1885 Navan)?

Jellybaby1 · 01-10-2016 11:33pm

I don't see baptisms that late on the Navan register. Is this the page:

http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0955

tabbey · 01-10-2016 11:35pm

rhapsody wrote: »

I wonder if anyone can read the note on the right hand side of Michael Fay's birth (hopefully attached, but if not, please search 14-6-1885 Navan)?

Correction
Informant not father.
RC (Richard Cousin)
Registrar.

tabbey · 01-10-2016 11:36pm

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I don't see baptisms that late on the Navan register. Is this the page:

http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0955

It is a birth (civil reg)

Jellybaby1 · 01-10-2016 11:38pm

Oops! Silly me. Sorry.

Jellybaby1 · 01-10-2016 11:42pm

"Correction, informant not father" is what I see.

Jellybaby1 · 01-10-2016 11:46pm

As the whole document was crossed out I would expect it to have been re-written. But the name of the informant could be another John Fay in the family, just not the actual father of the child.

Hermy · 02-10-2016 9:51am

I'm struggling with the second line line of this evidence of age form if anyone can figure it out.

I certify that Ignatius Moore, born 2 July 1862
was baptised ______ _ __ _ RC Church 20 July
1862 as appears from Parochial Register of this Church

Mollymoo19 · 02-10-2016 10:08am

Hermy wrote: »

I'm struggling with the second line line of this evidence of age form if anyone can figure it out.

Maybe 'according to rites of'

Hermy · 02-10-2016 11:02am

Yep, that might be it all right.

tabbey · 02-10-2016 12:09pm

Hermy wrote: »

I'm struggling with the second line line of this evidence of age form if anyone can figure it out.

According to the rites of the RC church.

The parish is Clontarf.

Canon O'Neill was a long serving cleric, and was the celebrant of my grandparents marriage in 1904.

rhapsody · 02-10-2016 4:50pm

tabbey wrote: »

Correction
Informant not father.
RC (Richard Cousin)
Registrar.

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

"Correction, informant not father" is what I see.

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

As the whole document was crossed out I would expect it to have been re-written. But the name of the informant could be another John Fay in the family, just not the actual father of the child.

Thanks- I could see the 'not father' and thought the worst!

kildarejohn · 05-10-2016 2:15pm

Not handwriting, so hope this is appropriate thread.
Can anyone decipher dates and Ages on this tombstone photo?
Thanks

pinkypinky · 05-10-2016 3:51pm

Decryption of any kind is acceptable, as long as it's genealogy, and not, say, enigma code.

Have you tried flipping the photo into negative?

Hermy · 05-10-2016 7:06pm

If you take a photo from the side of the stone as well as the end that might help too.

Waitsian · 05-10-2016 7:40pm

kildarejohn wrote:

Not handwriting, so hope this is appropriate thread. Can anyone decipher dates and Ages on this tombstone photo? Thanks

Have you only access to this photo? I only ask because if you can get back to the headstone I find water splashed on the letters helps to read it or try a rubbing with paper and something like charcoal.

Waitsian · 05-10-2016 7:42pm

Hermy wrote:

If you take a photo from the side of the stone as well as the end that might help too.

Even tracing each letter or number with the tip of a finger helps. Time consuming but it works!

josip · 05-10-2016 8:34pm

kildarejohn wrote: »

Not handwriting, so hope this is appropriate thread.
Can anyone decipher dates and Ages on this tombstone photo?
Thanks

Wife Son and Daughter
d April 18th 1817 Aged ? Y
died Nov 1 1831 Aged ? Years
d June 3rd 1836 Aged 21 Years
d June 10th 1837 Aged 31 Years
rest in peace Amen

tabbey · 05-10-2016 8:47pm

kildarejohn wrote: »

Not handwriting, so hope this is appropriate thread.
Can anyone decipher dates and Ages on this tombstone photo?
Thanks

What graveyard is it? and what name is on it?

Might be easier to see the stone if it is nearby.

kildarejohn · 05-10-2016 10:36pm

Several of you ask about checking stone itself, but unfortunately I wont be able to do this for some months.

josip wrote: »

Wife Son and Daughter
d April 18th 1817 Aged ? Y
died Nov 1 1831 Aged ? Years
d June 3rd 1836 Aged 21 Years
d June 10th 1837 Aged 31 Years
rest in peace Amen

Josip - thanks for above, I would read it about the same, but one thing I disagree on is that I thought last 3 ages all started with 2 -. Anyone else see the 4th age as 31, I thought it was 21. But seems unlikely that 2 children were both 21 - I wonder could it be 24?

Handwriting decipher thread *must post link to full page*

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Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page