How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

BloodyBill · 22-10-2020 2:13pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I mean... what?

Why are Catholics sending their children forward to take Catholic sacraments?

Do you think that most Catholics, and I can only speak from my own experiences, believe that the the Bible is to be interpreted literally and that all of its symbolism, while from the POV of the Church itself should be lapped up literally, is in fact taken as a representative and notional idea?

But of course, lets ignore Poots and his LITERAL acceptance of the bible. Because that's okay and let's look at themmuns over there who take bread thinking it's Jesus and think that Mary didn't get the ride.

I know lots of RC, COI and Methodists and not one of them has ever alluded to their religious teachings as to be something to be taken literally .

Anyway, back to the topic at hand which is a unionist being a bigot and which you seem to be defending...

I'm glad you're happy to accept Poots and his acceptance of the world being 6000 years old is perfectly okay.

Have you lost your mind.As a practicing Catholic transubstan
tiation is a cornerstone of the whole religion. I follow the teaching. I believe it.

BonnieSituation · 22-10-2020 2:13pm

BloodyBill wrote: »

Thank God for Michael Martin in regards to the Northern Ireland question. Ruling out Border polls is a good start to any engagement with Unionists.

So ruling out an opportunity for engagement is a good start to engagement with Unionists?

He's merely clarifying what the Shared Island Unit is setting out to achieve.

That being said, it's as slippery and as wishy washy as anything you would expect from MM.

BonnieSituation · 22-10-2020 2:15pm

BloodyBill wrote: »

Have you lost your mind.As a practicing Catholic transubstatiation is a cornerstone of the whole religion. I follow the teaching. I believe it.

That's on you Bill.

Any literal interpretation of any religious teaching is nuts.

I'm pointing out that bugger all people I know who profess to be of any religious persuasion take on the literal interpretations of their denominations, because they're not crazy and see religion in a different light to fundamentalists like yourself and Edwin.

BloodyBill · 22-10-2020 2:15pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So ruling out an opportunity for engagement is a good start to engagement with Unionists?

Plenty of room for engagement with border polls off the table. My only issue with what he said is that the border poll should be off the table for 50 years and not just 5. That would encourage meaningful interactions and practical involvement by all sides.

BloodyBill · 22-10-2020 2:18pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

That's on you Bill.

Any literal interpretation of any religious teaching is nuts.

I'm pointing out that bugger all people I know who profess to be of any religious persuasion take on the literal interpretations of their denominations, because they're not crazy and see religion in a different light to fundamentalists like yourself and Edwin.

Well I dont think many people around you would talk about religion at all. Youd probably laugh at them. Youd want to look up the term fundamentalist.. typical anti religious know-it all. And not a nice person I would say. Do you go around ridiculing Islam to your Islamic Colleagues? Yeah I bet you do..

BonnieSituation · 22-10-2020 2:21pm

BloodyBill wrote: »

Plenty of room for engagement with border polls off the table. My only issue with what he said is that the border poll should be off the table for 50 years and not just 5. That would encourage meaningful interactions and practical involvement by all sides.

How can anyone now take anything off the agenda for 50 years?

I mean, you're all for making sure the Unionist is getting the warm fuzzies, but you want to shít all over the aspirations of the majority of your compatriots?

You've an odd way about going about a "Shared Island".

jh79 · 22-10-2020 2:27pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I don't think the "other side", as you so delightfully call Catholics, believe that literally.

Poots is a creationist, he believes that literally.

Amazing how you've managed to somehow denigrate Catholicism in defence of a belligerent bigoted Unionist.

So unlike you.

Transubstantiation (Latin: transsubstantiatio; Greek: μετουσίωσις metousiosis) is, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, "the change of the whole substance of bread into the substance of the Body of Christ and of the whole substance of wine into the substance of the Blood of Christ.

Surely as a Catholic you are familiar with the Virgin Mary?

BonnieSituation · 22-10-2020 2:28pm

BloodyBill wrote: »

Well I dont think many people around you would talk about religion at all. Youd probably laugh at them. Youd want to look up the term fundamentalist.. typical anti religious know-it all. And not a nice person I would say. Do you go around ridiculing Islam to your Islamic Colleagues? Yeah I bet you do..

I would actually. I would laugh at any one who took the concepts of transubstantiation literally. It's bananas.

I would also laugh at anyone who thought that bringing up religion and discussing their beliefs in any conversation is appropriate.

What has Islam got to do anything?

Someone criticised Poots for being a creationist. Then someone foolishly tried to denigrate Catholics. Which I defended. And then you've launched in with your attacks on me.

No one has mentioned Islam or declared their belief in some fundamental aspect of Islam that defies logic. But when they do, and it seems unlikely that they will in a UI thread, I will gladly round on them to keep you happy Bill.

BonnieSituation · 22-10-2020 2:30pm

jh79 wrote: »

Transubstantiation (Latin: transsubstantiatio; Greek: μετουσίωσις metousiosis) is, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, "the change of the whole substance of bread into the substance of the Body of Christ and of the whole substance of wine into the substance of the Blood of Christ.

Surely as a Catholic you are familiar with the Virgin Mary?

Did you zone out of all of the subsequent posts dear boy?

I'll wait 'til you catch up.

Pogue eile · 22-10-2020 2:35pm

BloodyBill wrote: »

Have you lost your mind.As a practicing Catholic transubstan
tiation is a cornerstone of the whole religion. I follow the teaching. I believe it.

Name calling, casting aspersions over peoples character and attempting to dismiss the rights and free will of the majority.

And that's just in the last 20 mins, you are some devout Catholic alright, maybe read your bible again there like a good lad, you certainly seemed to have cherry picked a few bits!!

Only thing worse that a troll is a dumb troll

jh79 · 22-10-2020 2:48pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Did you zone out of all of the subsequent posts dear boy?

I'll wait 'til you catch up.

He's a creationist because of his religion. Plenty of stupid aspects to Catholicism too.

Don't get me started on a la carte religious types:mad:!

Hamsterchops · 22-10-2020 3:06pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And have you anything to add to the discussion about it?

I mean it's a subject you seem at once enthralled by but you keep saying how you don't know a lot about it. This could be a learning experience.

I'm interested in respect of the border staying or going, same with Scotland. European boundaries & borders haven't changed very much in recent years, so if Northern Ireland votes to leave the UK than I find that fascinating, and what if Scotland leaves too?

BonnieSituation · 22-10-2020 3:06pm

jh79 wrote: »

He's a creationist because of his religion. Plenty of stupid aspects to Catholicism too.

Don't get me started on a la carte religious types:mad:!

Again, I was literally discussing all of that above.

My point was that Poots believes this literally and because of that, you and others stepped in with some "themmuns" nonsense as a way to defend any slight on the wee Unionist craturs.

No one was ever denying that the literal interpretation of any Catholic teachings isn't anything but approaching certifiable, but we were discussing a sectarian bigot who believes in creationism that has decided to spout bigoted misinformed crap.

BonnieSituation · 22-10-2020 3:07pm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Imy interested in respect of the border staying or going, same with Scotland. National boundaries & borders haven't changed very much in recent years, so if Northern Ireland vies to leave the UK than I find that fascinating, and what if Scotland leaves too?

Oh my.

Yes, you have an interest, but your interest seems to stem from the pov that Nationalist aspirations are bogus.

jh79 · 22-10-2020 3:15pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Again, I was literally discussing all of that above.

My point was that Poots believes this literally and because of that, you and others stepped in with some "themmuns" nonsense as a way to defend any slight on the wee Unionist craturs.

No one was ever denying that the literal interpretation of any Catholic teachings isn't anything but approaching certifiable, but we were discussing a sectarian bigot who believes in creationism that has decided to spout bigoted misinformed crap.

Creationism is an aspect of the Protestant religion. His beliefs were being denigrated too. I wasn't defending Poots just highlighting hypocrisy.

Hamsterchops · 22-10-2020 3:16pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Oh my.

Yes, you have an interest, but your interest seems to stem from the pov that Nationalist aspirations are bogus.

Oh, nice try Bonnie

Just because I supported the SDLP (and not the Provos) doesn't make that so, does it.

FrancieBrady · 22-10-2020 3:23pm

jh79 wrote: »

He's a creationist because of his religion. Plenty of stupid aspects to Catholicism too.

Don't get me started on a la carte religious types:mad:!

What politician is using his/her Roman Catholic beliefs to comment on the spread of Covid?

BloodyBill · 22-10-2020 3:27pm

Pogue eile wrote: »

Name calling, casting aspersions over peoples character and attempting to dismiss the rights and free will of the majority.

And that's just in the last 20 mins, you are some devout Catholic alright, maybe read your bible again there like a good lad, you certainly seemed to have cherry picked a few bits!!

Only thing worse that a troll is a dumb troll

Haha a go away out of it. The Sinn Fein bots were due a good overheating episode and MM provided it. Its great. I think unification should be off the table and it is. The majority dont want it. I think if it does come up the people North and South and the people in the UK as a whole should have a vote on it. Let the people of these Islands decide.
Are you going to start telling me how devout my Catholicism is?.I dont think you have the credentials.

feargale · 22-10-2020 3:31pm

landofthetree wrote: »

There will never be one.

Only the Tories or New Labour can trigger it. They never will.

landofthetree wrote: »

The Brits have learned their lesson. No referendums ever again after Brexit.

Yes , it seems the UK is set to go the way of Trump in tearing up any international treaty that doesn't suit. If that is done once who will ever trust them again?

FrancieBrady · 22-10-2020 3:32pm

BloodyBill wrote: »

Haha a go away out of it. The Sinn Fein bots were due a good overheating episode and MM provided it. Its great. I think unification should be off the table and it is. The majority dont want it. I think if it does come up the people North and South and the people in the UK as a whole should have a vote on it. Let the people of these Islands decide.
Are you going to start telling me how devout my Catholicism is?.I dont think you have the credentials.

The 'people in the UK' will have no say - 'it is for the people of the island of Ireland to decide their fate' without outside impediment.

feargale · 22-10-2020 3:33pm

BloodyBill wrote: »

Well I dont think many people around you would talk about religion at all. Youd probably laugh at them. Youd want to look up the term fundamentalist.. typical anti religious know-it all. And not a nice person I would say. Do you go around ridiculing Islam to your Islamic Colleagues? Yeah I bet you do..

Where do I buy the popcorn?

Pogue eile · 22-10-2020 3:37pm

BloodyBill wrote: »

Haha a go away out of it. The Sinn Fein bots were due a good overheating episode and MM provided it. Its great. I think unification should be off the table and it is. The majority dont want it. I think if it does come up the people North and South and the people in the UK as a whole should have a vote on it. Let the people of these Islands decide.
Are you going to start telling me how devout my Catholicism is?.I dont think you have the credentials.

I have not given you enough credit to be fair, you have a very bright future.

I assume Fossetts are still hiring?

jh79 · 22-10-2020 3:39pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What politician is using his/her Roman Catholic beliefs to comment on the spread of Covid?

I wasn't defending Poots. When it came up on the thread i said the difference was most likely due to poverty.

If a Protestant poster followed a stupid remark by a SF member with something along the lines of "sure they believe in Virgin Birth" i would of given a similar reply. Creationism is an aspect of his religion.

FrancieBrady · 22-10-2020 3:42pm

jh79 wrote: »

I wasn't defending Poots. When it came up on the thread i said the difference was most likely due to poverty.

If a Protestant poster followed a stupid remark by a SF member with something along the lines of "sure they believe in Virgin Birth" i would of given a similar reply. Creationism is an aspect of his religion.

I couldn't care less if he believes we are descended from chestnuts TBH, he deliberately sectarianised the crisis.

jh79 · 22-10-2020 3:48pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I couldn't care less if he believes we are descended from chestnuts TBH, he deliberately sectarianised the crisis.

Exactly but the poster decided to add his belief about creationism into the mix which is a part of his religion. Whether you are a Protestant, Catholic or Scientologist there will be aspects of your beliefs that are ridiculous. Slagging the other side shows a lack of self awareness.

Pogue eile · 22-10-2020 4:04pm

jh79 wrote: »

Exactly but the poster decided to add his belief about creationism into the mix which is a part of his religion. Whether you are a Protestant, Catholic or Scientologist there will be aspects of your beliefs that are ridiculous. Slagging the other side shows a lack of self awareness.

What part of his religion is denying climate change? And do all Protestants believe that the earth is only 6000 years old, have to admit that both of these are news to me?

jh79 · 22-10-2020 4:12pm

Pogue eile wrote: »

What part of his religion is denying climate change? And do all Protestants believe that the earth is only 6000 years old, have to admit that both of these are news to me?

God controls the weather is why he is denying climate change. Different Christian religions take different aspects of the bible literally. Creation "science" and Climate denial both come from the Protestant religion.

FrancieBrady · 22-10-2020 4:39pm

jh79 wrote: »

Exactly but the poster decided to add his belief about creationism into the mix which is a part of his religion. Whether you are a Protestant, Catholic or Scientologist there will be aspects of your beliefs that are ridiculous. Slagging the other side shows a lack of self awareness.

Why are you so sensitive about it?

The poster clearly thinks those who believe in Creationism are loons. Just as relevant to mention that about a character assessment of him as it is to mention an affectation for socks or other traits somebody might have.

jh79 · 22-10-2020 4:50pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why are you so sensitive about it?

The poster clearly thinks those who believe in Creationism are loons. Just as relevant to mention that about a character assessment of him as it is to mention an affectation for socks or other traits somebody might have.

I'm not sensitive about it.

People who believe in virgin births are loons too but if a religious SF member said something stupid i wouldn't add it to a post.

BonnieSituation · 22-10-2020 5:11pm

BloodyBill wrote: »

Haha a go away out of it. The Sinn Fein bots were due a good overheating episode and MM provided it. Its great. I think unification should be off the table and it is. The majority dont want it. I think if it does come up the people North and South and the people in the UK as a whole should have a vote on it. Let the people of these Islands decide.
Are you going to start telling me how devout my Catholicism is?.I dont think you have the credentials.

We were in here talking about bigotry of a Unionist and you are the one, as always, calling people names and everything else.

Be kind to your neighbour and all that.

Thankfully the neighbouring island won't have a say in the vote.

Why you think they would is beyond me? It's almost like you're talking thorough your hoop on this subject.

BonnieSituation · 22-10-2020 5:11pm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Oh, nice try Bonnie

Just because I supported the SDLP (and not the Provos) doesn't make that so, does it.

So you do think that Nationalism is a valid aspiration?

BonnieSituation · 22-10-2020 5:13pm

jh79 wrote: »

Creationism is an aspect of the Protestant religion. His beliefs were being denigrated too. I wasn't defending Poots just highlighting hypocrisy.

I was denigrating him as the bigot that he is.

You were the one who brought up transubstantiation and brought religion into it.

It was obvious. Well, it was obvious to those of us who don't blindly defend Unionist bigots.

Junkyard Tom · 22-10-2020 5:18pm

jh79 wrote: »

Creation "science" and Climate denial both come from the Protestant religion.

A very touchy subject for you it seems. Fair play to you for trying to defend Poots' honour, or what little of it he has.

Aren't there lots of different strands of Protestantism with very few being as fundamentalist as Free Presbyterianism?

Truthvader · 22-10-2020 5:18pm

BloodyBill wrote: »

Haha a go away out of it. The Sinn Fein bots were due a good overheating episode and MM provided it. Its great. I think unification should be off the table and it is. The majority dont want it. I think if it does come up the people North and South and the people in the UK as a whole should have a vote on it. Let the people of these Islands decide.
Are you going to start telling me how devout my Catholicism is?.I dont think you have the credentials.

In that case we have a United Ireland in the morning as the 66 million in the UK cant wait to be shut of the place so that they don't have to listen to the likes of Arlene and Michelle grinding on forever with their stupid tribal squabble - and pay for it

jh79 · 22-10-2020 5:23pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I was denigrating him as the bigot that he is.

You were the one who brought up transubstantiation and brought religion into it.

It was obvious. Well, it was obvious to those of us who don't blindly defend Unionist bigots.

Bringing creationism into it was bringing his religion into it and i was pointing out that Catholicism has equally stupid aspects to it.

Could you point out when i have "blindly defend unionist bigots"?

jh79 · 22-10-2020 5:28pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A very touchy subject for you it seems. Fair play to you for trying to defend Poots' honour, or what little of it he has.

Aren't there lots of different strands of Protestantism with very few being as fundamentalist as Free Presbyterianism?

Where have i defended his honour?

The fuss here says more about ye to be honest. Slagging the protestant religion is ok by ye but leave the catholics alone.

BonnieSituation · 22-10-2020 5:31pm

jh79 wrote: »

Bringing creationism into it was bringing his religion into it and i was pointing out that Catholicism has equally stupid aspects to it.

Could you point out when i have "blindly defend unionist bigots"?

You did it then when you tried your "look at themmuns everyone" schtick.

If you bothered to read the thread, any post I made was denigrating anyone who take certain religious teachings literally.

That you still can't see it and are continuing with this facade, shows you are blindly defending him.

BonnieSituation · 22-10-2020 5:32pm

jh79 wrote: »

Where have i defended his honour?

The fuss here says more about ye to be honest. Slagging the protestant religion is ok by ye but leave the catholics alone.

No one slagged Protestantism. In fact, you're the only one making sweeping statements about religion.

What happened was someone denigrated a man who is a bigot, who happens to be a Free Presbyterian and you rode in here on your white horse to save him.

BonnieSituation · 22-10-2020 5:34pm

Pogue eile wrote: »

Yes, you really are underestimating the stupidity of the DUP - Poots is a man who believes that the world is 6,000 years old - this is but one of many examples of his 'intelligence'

jh79 wrote: »

In fairness the other side believes in "virgin birth" and that the wafer turns to flesh when you eat it!

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I don't think the "other side", as you so delightfully call Catholics, believe that literally.

Poots is a creationist, he believes that literally.

Amazing how you've managed to somehow denigrate Catholicism in defence of a belligerent bigoted Unionist.

So unlike you.

Pogue eile wrote: »

I must have missed that press conference, which leading politician from 'the other side' has held press conferences on these matters.

Anyway to get back to the original question, Poots is a complete nutter, as I said he has repeatedly stated that the earth is only 6000 years old and continues to defend this position, but then in the next breath he denies Climate Change is real and quotes the ice-age as an example of how these things are merely cyclical - when was the Ice Age Mr. Poots :D:D

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I mean... what?

Why are Catholics sending their children forward to take Catholic sacraments?

Do you think that most Catholics, and I can only speak from my own experiences, believe that the the Bible is to be interpreted literally and that all of its symbolism, while from the POV of the Church itself should be lapped up literally, is in fact taken as a representative and notional idea?

But of course, lets ignore Poots and his LITERAL acceptance of the bible. Because that's okay and let's look at themmuns over there who take bread thinking it's Jesus and think that Mary didn't get the ride.

I know lots of RC, COI and Methodists and not one of them has ever alluded to their religious teachings as to be something to be taken literally .

Anyway, back to the topic at hand which is a unionist being a bigot and which you seem to be defending...

I'm glad you're happy to accept Poots and his acceptance of the world being 6000 years old is perfectly okay.

Just in case you missed how this all went down there JH my good man.

FrancieBrady · 22-10-2020 5:40pm

jh79 wrote: »

Where have i defended his honour?

The fuss here says more about ye to be honest. Slagging the protestant religion is ok by ye but leave the catholics alone.

I don't slag Poots religious fundementalism I proudly and vehemently oppose him using it to legislate in any shape or form. He can believe whatever he wants in his church and home, but he should not be imposing his religious beliefs on anybody else. And he does, as do the DUP.

Hqrry113 · 22-10-2020 5:50pm

There's hardly ever support for an Ireland free from British rule in peace time, there was no support before 1916 and there was no support before 1969, in the 70s most polls would show 90 percent of people in the republic wanting complete immediate unilateral withdrawal from Northern Ireland and around 25 percent of people in the republic supporting the IRA.

BonnieSituation · 22-10-2020 7:08pm

Ah yes, we should govern ourselves on the basis of figurative polls from the 1970s. Good hustle there Harry.

Hamsterchops · 22-10-2020 10:22pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So you do think that Nationalism is a valid aspiration?

Why wouldn't it be

Just because I hate everything the PROVOs stood for doesn't alter the fact that Nationalism is a valid aspiration.

Hqrry113 · 22-10-2020 11:36pm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Why wouldn't it be

Just because I hate everything the PROVOs stood for doesn't alter the fact that Nationalism is a valid aspiration.

You say you hate everything the provos stood for as in a United Ireland, an end to the British presence in Ireland and.equal rights for Catholics?

Hobgoblin11 · 22-10-2020 11:38pm

How long before Irish reunification?
2050 is the year

BonnieSituation · 23-10-2020 12:03am

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Why wouldn't it be

Just because I hate everything the PROVOs stood for doesn't alter the fact that Nationalism is a valid aspiration.

I had to ask,because you go on about Nationalists wanting to "take NI from Britain" all the time.

It's a slightly ironic and weird stance. Just thought I'd check in.

Dickie10 · 23-10-2020 12:11am

A topic I would like to know more about is the subject of southern Irish unionists they were common enough in some parts around 1916 . What silenced them so much , where did they disappear too.

BonnieSituation · 23-10-2020 12:21am

Dickie10 wrote: »

A topic I would like to know more about is the subject of southern Irish unionists they were common enough in some parts around 1916 . What silenced them so much , where did they disappear too.

They weren't silenced.

Give Crisis and Decline: The Fate of the Southern Unionists by Robert Brendan McDowell a bash.

And anything by Susan McKay really that will give a Southern sheen to Unionism.

Dickie10 · 23-10-2020 10:20am

were they usurped into the wider Fine Gael family? anybody know any sounthern unionist strongholds still? would DunLaoighre be one, what about Laois/Offaly do they still hold any plantation allegiance to Britain, i know theres a lot of Protestants in that area.

Pogue eile · 23-10-2020 10:37am

Dickie10 wrote: »

were they usurped into the wider Fine Gael family? anybody know any sounthern unionist strongholds still? would DunLaoighre be one, what about Laois/Offaly do they still hold any plantation allegiance to Britain, i know theres a lot of Protestants in that area.

Laois was formerly known as Queens County and Kildare was known as Kings County, that's a long time ago and I certainly wouldn't refer to either as a unionist stronghold - there is a very big difference between a protestant and a Unionist.

How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

Comments