UFC 214 - DC vs Jones

JaMarcusHustle · 23-08-2017 2:08pm

Woodley Sub

Gamb!t wrote: »

They should just ban him and be done with him for good.

There's that, but look at all this money he makes them! :pac:

wonderfullife · 23-08-2017 2:49pm

Maia Decision

walshb wrote: »

Bizarre...

Why the need to uses PEDs here? Clearly a superior fighter to DC.

Clearly superior because of PED's? It's a fair question at this point.

Many people are suggesting Jones cheated his entire career, returned clean against OSP, wasn't happy with how 'human' he fought, and went back to the juice. His whole family have a history of failing drug tests, both of his brothers have been banned for it in other sports. It would seem the Jones clan attitude is "cheat your way to the top".

Let's just assume for one second he's an out-and-out cheater... his whole career...

If that's true, then he's living proof that cheaters prosper. He's made tens of millions in his career in the UFC. Matt Hamill came out guns blazing calling him a cheater.

JaMarcusHustle · 23-08-2017 2:54pm

Woodley Sub

wonderfullife wrote: »

His whole family have a history of failing drug tests, both of his brothers have been banned for it in other sports. It would seem the Jones clan attitude is "cheat your way to the top".

Eh, Chandler Jones has never tested positive or been banned for anything (let alone drugs).

walshb · 23-08-2017 2:59pm

wonderfullife wrote: »

Clearly superior because of PED's? It's a fair question at this point.

.

I was thinking this...

DC for me is just not near Jones's overall level and ability, despite the fight being somewhat close...

wonderfullife · 23-08-2017 3:01pm

Maia Decision

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Eh, Chandler Jones has never tested positive or been banned for anything (let alone drugs).

Ok fair, Arthur has been and the NFL did put Chandler in the substance abuse program for the incident where he rocked up to a police station high as a kite and was hospitalized for unknown substances which they claimed was synthetic marijuana.

Anyway, the family have drug issues.

MagicIRL · 23-08-2017 3:03pm

Mark Hunt is a straight savage :pac:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYHlrF8A1jT/

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through him who gives me strength plus the juice ��

JaMarcusHustle · 23-08-2017 3:14pm

Woodley Sub

wonderfullife wrote: »

the NFL did put Chandler in the substance abuse program

No, they didn't.

Chandler Jones has as clean a record as anybody in the NFL when it comes to drugs, PEDs or anything of the sort. He's never tested positive, he's never been banned and he's never entered any programs.

I think you're misreading whatever Google results you're finding! Click into the links first, it usually helps

wonderfullife wrote:

...for the incident where he rocked up to a police station high as a kite and was hospitalized for unknown substances which they claimed was synthetic marijuana.

And this is horrendously over the top phrasing by you! Looks like you didn't find anything solid to back up your claim, so you resorted to tabloid tactics of incriminating him with your language instead of, you know, what actually happened!

Chandler Jones took synthetic marijuana - perfectly legal in Massachusetts where he resided at the time - at his house with some friends. He had a bad reaction, and was advised to go to the police station down the road from his house to get medical help.

He walked over to the police station - by all accounts very disorientated - and outside the station announced who he was, and knelt on the ground with his hands behind his head to "surrender". I'd like to think that - as a physically imposing black male who was disoriented and not able to fully articulate himself at the time - this was probably the best thing he could do, would you not agree?

He was not arrested, and was given the medical attention he was looking for. That was the end of the matter.

Put it this way - the NFL, who legitimately go out of their way to suspend players for ANY infraction of their policies - took no action against him.

wonderfullife · 23-08-2017 3:18pm

Maia Decision

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Put it this way - the NFL, who legitimately go out of their way to suspend players for ANY infraction of their policies - took no action against him.

I'm assuming from your over-the-top defence of Chandler that you're a Patriots fan pining for his return.

I'll stand corrected but there's a whole lot of drug-related stuff between the 3 of them.

JaMarcusHustle · 23-08-2017 3:24pm

Woodley Sub

wonderfullife wrote: »

I'm assuming from your over-the-top defence of Chandler that you're a Patriots fan pining for his return.

I'm just a guy who, as a rule, tends not to comment on things I know nothing about. I don't like putting my foot in my mouth

wonderfullife · 23-08-2017 3:31pm

Maia Decision

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

I'm just a guy who, as a rule, tends not to comment on things I know nothing about. I don't like putting my foot in my mouth

Yeah, yeah

You're just upset Belichick sent him packing.

I'm a guy, as a rule, who is sceptical about professional athletes using synthetic marijuana and being hospitalized six days before a huge Play-offs game. It's not a good idea on any level.

As a rule, I'm suspicious when 3 brothers, who are all supposed to be professional athletes, seem to like drugs a lot, whether it's marijuana, cocaine, steroids ... or stuff contained in "d1ck pills"...

I suspect they have about one brain cell between the 3 of them.

qwabercd · 23-08-2017 7:47pm

Woodley Sub

walshb wrote: »

I was thinking this...

DC for me is just not near Jones's overall level and ability, despite the fight being somewhat close...

Both fights were close, with Jones juicing likely for most of his career. With no PEDs those fights could've had very different outcomes.

Kirby · 24-08-2017 5:02am

For me, DC won both round 1 and 2. I've rewatched it since and came to the same conclusion.

He got knocked out in round 3 because he was getting tired. He was slowing down. The pace was high. Jones is a cheat and his cheating would definately help in the cardio department.

I'm not saying he isnt talented, but when you are a proven multiple time cheat.......all of your ability and accomplishments should be seriously scrutinized. Would a clean Jones have been able to keep up with the pace of a clean DC? We'll never know. But we DO know Jones is a cheat. Jones is taking PEDS while DC is leaning on towels. The difference there is f*cking huge. DC is a class act and I hope he doesn't retire.

xckjoo · 24-08-2017 9:38am

Kirby wrote: »

For me, DC won both round 1 and 2. I've rewatched it since and came to the same conclusion.

He got knocked out in round 3 because he was getting tired. He was slowing down. The pace was high. Jones is a cheat and his cheating would definately help in the cardio department.

I'm not saying he isnt talented, but when you are a proven multiple time cheat.......all of your ability and accomplishments should be seriously scrutinized. Would a clean Jones have been able to keep up with the pace of a clean DC? We'll never know. But we DO know Jones is a cheat. Jones is taking PEDS while DC is leaning on towels. The difference there is f*cking huge. DC is a class act and I hope he doesn't retire.

I actually hope he does retire and see him full time coach and commentate. He's only getting older and slower so he's just going to take more and more damage. The dudes a legend. He doesn't need to prove anything.

marcus001 · 24-08-2017 11:17am

Woodley KO/TKO

walshb wrote: »

Bizarre...

Why the need to uses PEDs here? Clearly a superior fighter to DC.

He's not. Technically he may be but Jones is physically weaker slower and not as aggressive. I've come to the conclusion that he was on steroids in every fight except OSP and he was dog**** in that fight. That's what Jones is like when he's clean. Don't underestimate just how much of an advantage steroids gives you. There are no genetic freaks only sted heads.

Useful.Idiot · 24-08-2017 11:21am

Woodley Sub

I honestly don't think he was that bad in the OSP fight. A bit trigger-shy maybe but that could be chalked down to the short notice. He dominated the whole fight and broke OSP's arm.

wonderfullife · 25-08-2017 12:41am

Maia Decision

Chael:

"Turinabol is an expensive drug, it's a Class C felony to possess it. Nobody is smuggling it into the country to accidentally put it into supplements. It's beyond absurd. It was taken intentionally. I've taken clomiphene (what Jones popped for last year) myself and everyone fell for his 'dick pill' thing. Jon Jones is a sociopath who holds up the bible to hide behind but my advice would be to either 'fess up (which he won't) or shut up, take the ban. People are numb to Jon Jones at this point, just take the ban and come back."

I guess he's on the fence about Jon...

marcus001 · 25-08-2017 10:45am

Woodley KO/TKO

wonderfullife wrote: »

Chael:

"Turinabol is an expensive drug, it's a Class C felony to possess it. Nobody is smuggling it into the country to accidentally put it into supplements. It's beyond absurd. It was taken intentionally. I've taken clomiphene (what Jones popped for last year) myself and everyone fell for his 'dick pill' thing. Jon Jones is a sociopath who holds up the bible to hide behind but my advice would be to either 'fess up (which he won't) or shut up, take the ban. People are numb to Jon Jones at this point, just take the ban and come back."

I guess he's on the fence about Jon...

Its not that expensive

xckjoo · 25-08-2017 10:58am

Useful.Idiot wrote: »

I honestly don't think he was that bad in the OSP fight. A bit trigger-shy maybe but that could be chalked down to the short notice. He dominated the whole fight and broke OSP's arm.

I don't think that Jon Jones would have beaten DC though.

walshb · 25-08-2017 11:43am

Whatever about rds being close for me DC looked like a complete plodder in the octagon against Jones. Out of shape too.

xckjoo · 25-08-2017 12:15pm

walshb wrote: »

Whatever about rds being close for me DC looked like a complete plodder in the octagon against Jones. Out of shape too.

In 214? We must have been watching different fights.

akelly02 · 25-08-2017 12:16pm

Maia Decision

walshb wrote: »

Whatever about rds being close for me DC looked like a complete plodder in the octagon against Jones. Out of shape too.

Stick to the boxing. he was far from plodding

walshb · 25-08-2017 1:08pm

xckjoo wrote: »

In 214? We must have been watching different fights.

Yes, in comparison to Jones he was plodding.

xckjoo · 25-08-2017 1:31pm

walshb wrote: »

Yes, in comparison to Jones he was plodding.

Not even a little bit.

wonderfullife · 26-08-2017 1:52am

Maia Decision

Chael holding back:

"Jon is a dumb-dumb with 7 kids by 6 different women. When you start spreading those payments around money gets tight fast, those alimony's don't go away, so things are not going to go well for him, he's just not a bright guy he's not going to transition to being a local insurance salesman because he's a dumb-dumb. He doesn't remotely have the type of money that people think he has. Seminar fees might make him like 2 grand but if he wants any kind of self-preservation he needs to go radio silent."

CatFromHue · 26-08-2017 2:30am

Does Jon really have that many kids by that many mothers?

wonderfullife · 26-08-2017 2:37am

Maia Decision

CatFromHue wrote: »

Does Jon really have that many kids by that many mothers?

If he doesn't he should probably be suing Chael lol.

He wasn't joking put it that way.

Mellor · 26-08-2017 8:47am

Maia Decision

marcus001 wrote: »

Its not that expensive

It probably is relatively to the supplements that are supposedly tainted with it. If a supplement company were adding oral steroids to their beign testo-booster, it would brobably cost them more than the $25 price tag.

marcus001 · 26-08-2017 1:53pm

Woodley KO/TKO

Mellor wrote: »

It probably is relatively to the supplements that are supposedly tainted with it. If a supplement company were adding oral steroids to their beign testo-booster, it would brobably cost them more than the $25 price tag.

That's not how supplements get contaminated. It's not that they're spiking their supplements with illegal stuff, although some supplement companies have put cheap dodgy amphetamines in their preworkouts in the past, but that's a side issue.

A lot of these supplement companies don't have the highest standards in their factories. They may use the same vats to mix different supplements.

For example, back when prohormones were all the rage, MuscleTech (I think) produced a few batches of supplements which were contaminated because they had previously used the same vats to produce prohormones and trace amounts were left on the surface of the vats causing false positives. There wasn't nearly enough of the stuff to actually cause any benefits, but enough to appear in a drug test. The testing agency actually went to the facility to test the vats and discovered this. This was an extremely unlikely occurrence at the time but it has been used as an excuse by cheaters ever since.

That said, contaminated supplements are still exceedingly rare. There's only a handful of useful supplements out there and it's not hard for a professional athlete to ensure the company he buys his supplements from is reputable and isn't producing illegal **** on the side that could cause cross contamination. Just buy the premium brand, they have the money.

Even the dick pill story, although it is plausible that some of these pills are made in underground labs along side steroids, the question is why would he buy dick pills from an underground steroid lab instead of a pharmacy? It's all lies.

Mellor · 26-08-2017 4:00pm

Maia Decision

marcus001 wrote: »

That's not how supplements get contaminated. It's not that they're spiking their supplements with illegal stuff, although some supplement companies have put cheap dodgy amphetamines in their preworkouts in the past, but that's a side issue.

That's literally what people often claim. It's ridiculous.

For example, back when prohormones were all the rage, MuscleTech (I think) produced a few batches of supplements which were contaminated because they had previously used the same vats to produce prohormones and trace amounts were left on the surface of the vats causing false positives. There wasn't nearly enough of the stuff to actually cause any benefits, but enough to appear in a drug test. The testing agency actually went to the facility to test the vats and discovered this. This was an extremely unlikely occurrence at the time but it has been used as an excuse by cheaters ever since.

Prohormones were legal at the time though right? What companies are producing Turinabol as well as OTC products? How could the above situation happen.

That said, contaminated supplements are still exceedingly rare. There's only a handful of useful supplements out there and it's not hard for a professional athlete to ensure the company he buys his supplements from is reputable and isn't producing illegal **** on the side that could cause cross contamination. Just buy the premium brand, they have the money.

Even the dick pill story, although it is plausible that some of these pills are made in underground labs along side steroids, the question is why would he buy dick pills from an underground steroid lab instead of a pharmacy? It's all lies.

He popped for clomid.bHis teammate had an invoice for dickpills and clomid from an underground lab.

marcus001 · 26-08-2017 5:54pm

Woodley KO/TKO

Mellor wrote: »

That's literally what people often claim. It's ridiculous.

Prohormones were legal at the time though right? What companies are producing Turinabol as well as OTC products? How could the above situation happen.

That said, contaminated supplements are still exceedingly rare. There's only a handful of useful supplements out there and it's not hard for a professional athlete to ensure the company he buys his supplements from is reputable and isn't producing illegal **** on the side that could cause cross contamination. Just buy the premium brand, they have the money.

He popped for clomid.bHis teammate had an invoice for dickpills and clomid from an underground lab.

I know I'm not defending Jones at all I'm giving the backstory to the whole idea of contaminated supplements and showing how it clearly doesn't apply in this case.

shanec1928 · 01-09-2017 7:12pm

Maia Decision

https://twitter.com/arielhelwani/status/903677435937300480

Wtf is going on?

wonderfullife · 01-09-2017 8:47pm

Maia Decision

shanec1928 wrote: »

Wtf is going on?

The substance he allegedly popped for is only detectable in urine. The fight night test was a blood test.

The only 'news' here is that he didn't fail for even more gear and he's still just on the hook for the Turinabol. I'm far from an expert in any of this but from reading bodybuilding forums they're exceptionally dubious he can find a tainted supplement containing Turinabol due to how expensive it is. It's not manufactured in the USA and costs a fortune when illegally imported, so the chances of it "accidentally" getting into regular supplements are slim-to-none.

Shorter answer he's still fcuked unless he can come up with a genius excuse and even then they'll give him the minimum 2 years.

Outlaw Pete · 14-09-2017 8:43pm

Maia Decision

https://twitter.com/JonnyBones/status/908395977781821440

Zero-Cool · 14-09-2017 8:45pm

Maia Decision

Ultimate Seduction · 14-09-2017 8:47pm

What is it about jon Jones that kinda makes me feel sorry for him. I've no doubt he was on it, but I think everyone is, he was just stupid enough about it to get caught, twice. And coke.

Mellor · 15-09-2017 4:02am

Maia Decision

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

What is it about jon Jones that kinda makes me feel sorry for him. I've no doubt he was on it, but I think everyone is, he was just stupid enough about it to get caught, twice. And coke.

I've no problem with the coke thing tbh.
What he does in his spare time is his business.

Steroids in a combat sport, drink driving, fleeing the scene, etc. That stuff affects other people and potentially puts lives at risk

mangobob · 15-09-2017 1:55pm

DC is absolutely the rightful LHW champ, no question. As much as I wanted to believe Jones the first time over his contaminated dick pill excuse, he has lost all credibility. The drugs were in his system and regardless of how they got there the indisputable fact is that he fought DC while reaping the benefits of PEDS. At an absolute bare minimum he was reckless AGAIN. When you put this in the context of his previous behaviour, its extremely difficult to believe that he was not consistently cheating.

xckjoo · 15-09-2017 2:21pm

mangobob wrote: »

DC is absolutely the rightful LHW champ, no question. As much as I wanted to believe Jones the first time over his contaminated dick pill excuse, he has lost all credibility. The drugs were in his system and regardless of how they got there the indisputable fact is that he fought DC while reaping the benefits of PEDS. At an absolute bare minimum he was reckless AGAIN. When you put this in the context of his previous behaviour, its extremely difficult to believe that he was not consistently cheating.

I wonder would have have weathered DC's attacks if he had been clean? Guess we'll never know but we can always speculate wildly

dashoonage · 15-09-2017 2:27pm

If were really going to get technical about this then Shogun is the real champ still. :P

TimRiggins · 15-09-2017 6:22pm

Woodley Sub

dashoonage wrote: »

If were really going to get technical about this then Shogun is the real champ still. :P

He was probably juicing too tbf.

finglashoop · 15-09-2017 6:50pm

Maia Decision

mangobob wrote: »

DC is absolutely the rightful LHW champ, no question. As much as I wanted to believe Jones the first time over his contaminated dick pill excuse, he has lost all credibility. The drugs were in his system and regardless of how they got there the indisputable fact is that he fought DC while reaping the benefits of PEDS. At an absolute bare minimum he was reckless AGAIN. When you put this in the context of his previous behaviour, its extremely difficult to believe that he was not consistently cheating.

Maybe but he was the one on the ground after eating a head kick. Same way if they stripped mcgrefor and aldo had beat holloway- the lasting image is the one of mcgregor about to hammer fist a ko'd aldo.

When DC won the vacant title the fact he didnt beat jones for it loomed over him. Same will most likely happen again.

Im.not saying its wrong but that s how it was the first time round and most likely will be this time around

mangobob · 15-09-2017 11:28pm

finglashoop wrote: »

Maybe but he was the one on the ground after eating a head kick. Same way if they stripped mcgrefor and aldo had beat holloway- the lasting image is the one of mcgregor about to hammer fist a ko'd aldo.

When DC won the vacant title the fact he didnt beat jones for it loomed over him. Same will most likely happen again.

Im.not saying its wrong but that s how it was the first time round and most likely will be this time around

Yep. I can't argue with this. It will always hang over his head, rightly or wrongly. Personally I have to go with the latter. As xckjoo said, it will always be a matter of speculation as to how the lack of PEDS would have affected his potency and DC's ability to weather those shots.

We all have a tendency to say "if that offside goal was disallowed we would have won 2:1" or "we lost by 4 points so if that one try scoring opportunity had been taken we would have won". But you can't just adjust for that one variable and hold every other variable constant. The reality is every moment flows from the last one, so if you changed that one moment in a match, then every moment afterwards would be altered completely so it would be a different game.

Likewise, you cant just subtract the PEDS and then say that DC would have still been crushed by that head kick. Its very possible that without PEDS we would have seen a different fight, one in which the head kick may never have landed or even been thrown. Aside from talent and skill, there are a huge number of variables in how a fight plays out, from the quality of the training camp to the smoothness of the weight cut, to the fighters physical conditioning and their ability to recover from injury etc. These in turn directly affect other factors such as the fighters mental state, confidence and their cardio levels throughout the fight, which in turn directly impacts their ability to execute their strategy over the course of the 5 rounds and so on.

The reality is PEDS may not suddenly make you superman, but they do potentially affect all of the above variables in a very beneficial way for the fighter who is taking them. All of this means we would have seen a somewhat different Jon Jones (perhaps more akin to the one who showed up in the OSP fight) which in turn would most likely result in a different fight. Im not saying DC would not still have lost to Jones, but its highly likely that it would play out differently.

But as you say, that head kick and DC's tears will be the enduring image from that fight and I suspect it will forever tarnish his legacy in the eyes of many.

snotboogie · 16-09-2017 4:56pm

mangobob wrote: »

DC is absolutely the rightful LHW champ, no question. As much as I wanted to believe Jones the first time over his contaminated dick pill excuse, he has lost all credibility. The drugs were in his system and regardless of how they got there the indisputable fact is that he fought DC while reaping the benefits of PEDS. At an absolute bare minimum he was reckless AGAIN. When you put this in the context of his previous behaviour, its extremely difficult to believe that he was not consistently cheating.

It's not even a question, he was doping. The only question is if everybody else is doing it too. I'd guess they all do it to some extent but Jon was taking a riskier cocktail to get a greater benefit.

darced · 16-09-2017 8:25pm

Maia Decision

This post has been deleted.

mangobob · 16-09-2017 10:08pm

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Interesting. I stand corrected. I have zero firsthand knowledge of PEDS nor do I personally know of anyone who has used them. From the sounds of it, they are even more transformative than I thought.

Just to clarify, were the lads you were talking to fighters or athletes from a different sport?

darced · 16-09-2017 11:40pm

Maia Decision

This post has been deleted.

UFC 214 - DC vs Jones

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