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If Work From Home becomes a thing...

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24567…37

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    #32
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    People aren't making a decision to go to Dingle over tipp town. People are choosing to relocate out of Dublin to the town's they grew up in or close by. They don't isolate from their community .they become more involved .
    They don't typically make two Aldi trips a week.

    If might surprise you but a large proportion of people who grew up in portumna would like to live in Portumna as adults. Likewise with inis oirr , with kanturk, with kilbeggan. A combination of who they marry or where they work has an impact and if you're a nurse from nenagh in at Vincent's married to a Garda from manor Hamilton based in store street you re not going to live in portlaoise. But once you've had children your forced to consider your options and the benefits of choosing (in this example) north tipp or north Leitrim to move to.
    I'm not optimistic of any forward thinking on the part of the government/public service to de centralise but it is something that would be embraced e

    My point is that there are not enough desirable towns to drive this idillic ruralization. Irish people who move back to "de country" overwhelmingly move to big one off houses and not to villages or towns. There is nothing to suggest that Covid will change this. Not sure what you many by forward thinking as all studies suggest that we need to urbanize more rather than embrace decentralisation


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    #33
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    snotboogie wrote: »
    My point is that there are not enough desirable towns to drive this idillic ruralization. Irish people who move back to "de country" overwhelmingly move to big one off houses and not to villages or towns. There is nothing to suggest that Covid will change this. Not sure what you many by forward thinking as all studies suggest that we need to urbanize more rather than embrace decentralisation

    Because urbanisation doesn't have to mean large town's only . We don't have to do exactly what Germany does.. By all means stop one off housing but to give an example. Virginia in county Cavan draw an imaginary circle 2 km from the centre . Compulsory purchase if necessary and allow people to purchase 1/2 acre sites on which to build there own homes Or allow development of smaller site estates by developer.
    Killinkere is a small village a few miles away . Repeat but with a 1km circle here. Allow larger 1acre sites for people who want them at a premium . Repeat for all small villages and towns . It's a compromise on people wanting one offs, allowing them to build or live within a couple of miles of their home house in a rural area.


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    #34
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    And I m saying that example is not in any way ideal. ...


    I could reply with a litany of things that can happen to make that unworkable on a daily basis. But since you think it's a solely scheduling issue I know it would fall on deaf ears. You've also left out a ton of stuff.

    Nothing to do with working from home. Working from home is great if you have the facilities and it suits.


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    #35
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    A sensible alternative is a wework type setup in smaller towns, where people can rent the offices and have everything they need. Good internet connection, security, meeting rooms, office facilities, etc. Instead of travelling half way across the country, you just travel into your local town, plus it also supports the local cafes/restaurants.


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    #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    snotboogie wrote: »
    I have no faith in wfh "saving rural Ireland" there very few scenic small towns like Dingle. For every Kenmare and Bantry there are 10 Tipp Towns and Fermoys. People don't want to live in small town Ireland and if a wfh gets people out of Dublin, Cork and Galway it will mostly be to one off houses in the middle of nowhere. Two trips a week to the local Aldi 10 miles away won't save rural Ireland. It will encourage people to retreat into the own families and isolate from community.

    It just takes the political will to reduce the one off houses. Proper planning and town development with well designed houses would solve a lot. Not everyone wants to live in cities.

    Towns of a reasonable size could be earmarked for development and good infrastructure and broadband provided. And people should be encouraged to move out of some of the drab dead villages we have dotted around the country. Or at the very least not build anymore houses in them.


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    #37
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    snotboogie wrote: »
    My point is that there are not enough desirable towns to drive this idillic ruralization. Irish people who move back to "de country" overwhelmingly move to big one off houses and not to villages or towns. There is nothing to suggest that Covid will change this. Not sure what you many by forward thinking as all studies suggest that we need to urbanize more rather than embrace decentralisation

    Need to urbanize or that we are urbanizing...

    Because they are not the same thing. People are being driven into cities through economics


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    #38
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    beauf wrote: »
    I could reply with a litany of things that can happen to make that unworkable on a daily basis. But since you think it's a solely scheduling issue I know it would fall on deaf ears. You've also left out a ton of stuff.

    Nothing to do with working from home. Working from home is great if you have the facilities and it suits.

    The irony of you using "deaf ears" 🙄
    I neither said nor implied it was solely a scheduling issue.


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    #39
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,702 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    The irony of you using "deaf ears" ��
    I neither said nor implied it was solely a scheduling issue.

    I’m struggling to see what point you are making ? You presented a non workable timetable as a solution and then basically admitted it was unworkable !

    No one is going to move down the country if that’s whats waiting for them


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    #40
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Economics are now going to work against cities, not just in Ireland, everywhere. It’s not down to Covid-19, that might even delay it as people thinking working from home is more difficult than it actually is, because they have no childcare right now.
    In an Irish context a Donegal based office worker can do their job for a lower price than a Dublin one, because of the price of property in the two counties. The winners in the short term will be employers for certain as well as workers who live or want to live in rural areas. The big losers will be commercial property owners in cities.
    It’s not just Ireland, the so-called flyover States in America now have advantages no one saw until the last few years for example.
    Not strictly working from home, but learning from home is going to be way more prevalent, would expect very few people studying part time to go to physical classes in the future.


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    #41
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    Cyrus wrote: »
    I’m struggling to see what point you are making ? You presented a non workable timetable as a solution and then basically admitted it was unworkable !

    No one is going to move down the country if that’s whats waiting for them

    You re not reading the posts then.
    . It's not non workable . It's hectic but believe it or not it is and currently being done by a number of people. I know one of them and that's their schedule and would have been. In September they would have had it becoming easier as their youngest is moving into primary school. They make it work.

    It's nothing to do with moving down the country. I didn't say it was. You're unable or unwilling to read posts and deliberately conflating points trying to make a different argument


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    #42
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    ...believe it or not it is and currently being done by a number of people. I know one of them and that's their schedule and would have been.....

    You don't realise it, but you've just confirmed the point they were making. Really it was more of an comic observation, until you started trying to defend it.

    Most people are all for working for home if it suits the job and the person. There really isn't one size fits all.


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    #43
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Sunny Disposition wrote: »
    Economics are now going to work against cities, not just in Ireland, everywhere. It’s not down to Covid-19, that might even delay it as people thinking working from home is more difficult than it actually is, because they have no childcare right now.
    In an Irish context a Donegal based office worker can do their job for a lower price than a Dublin one, because of the price of property in the two counties. The winners in the short term will be employers for certain as well as workers who live or want to live in rural areas. The big losers will be commercial property owners in cities.
    It’s not just Ireland, the so-called flyover States in America now have advantages no one saw until the last few years for example.
    Not strictly working from home, but learning from home is going to be way more prevalent, would expect very few people studying part time to go to physical classes in the future.

    I don't think people will accept different wages doing the same job. Especially not in a unionised environment. The private sector will always be you get what you negotiate, and in that situation you are probably aware of the going market rate for the job and what you are worth.

    As for remote learning, that only goes so far. Classroom is a richer experience, even from a social level, networking, to experience a different environment etc.


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    #44
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,554 ✭✭✭dubrov


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    You re not reading the posts then.
    . It's not non workable . It's hectic but believe it or not it is and currently being done by a number of people. I know one of them and that's their schedule and would have been. In September they would have had it becoming easier as their youngest is moving into primary school. They make it work.

    It's nothing to do with moving down the country. I didn't say it was. You're unable or unwilling to read posts and deliberately conflating points trying to make a different argument

    It's not sustainable for any longer than 2 weeks without a breakdown


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    #45
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    dubrov wrote: »
    It's not sustainable for any longer than 2 weeks without a breakdown

    Lol.

    Its amazing how some people do actually try to do crazy schedules, with mammoth commutes for extended periods.


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    #46
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Now that the world knows how relatively well working remotely can function, there is a whole sub-continent that will aim itself to take your IT job off-shore.

    Be very careful of advocating how well remote working is


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    #47
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    beauf wrote: »
    I don't think people will accept different wages doing the same job. Especially not in a unionised environment. The private sector will always be you get what you negotiate, and in that situation you are probably aware of the going market rate for the job and what you are worth.

    As for remote learning, that only goes so far. Classroom is a richer experience, even from a social level, networking, to experience a different environment etc.

    Public sector is different for sure, but surely you know labour costs in the West are much lower than Dublin? That means people being paid less than they would be for the same job in Dublin.
    Business can exploit that now. This will have huge implications, many obvious positives for rural dwellers but perhaps negatives we can’t see yet.

    It’s true about classroom learning and that’s why full time education may continue in the old way a bit longer, I think. Eighteen year olds love the idea of college and young people generally find it great craic. But slightly older people studying part time will do it online.


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    #48
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    salonfire wrote: »
    Now that the world knows how relatively well working remotely can function, there is a whole sub-continent that will aim itself to take your IT job off-shore.

    Be very careful of advocating how well remote working is

    There’s the danger for Ireland, we have to be competitive. Lost many manufacturing jobs to less wealthy countries in the last 30 years, same forces in effect.


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    #49
    Sconsey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    salonfire wrote: »
    Now that the world knows how relatively well working remotely can function, there is a whole sub-continent that will aim itself to take your IT job off-shore.

    Be very careful of advocating how well remote working is

    I have worked in IT for the last 20 years, outsourcing jobs to lower cost countries is part and parcel of the business. The fact that people can successfully work remotely is not news either.


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    #50
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Sunny Disposition wrote: »
    Public sector is different for sure, but surely you know labour costs in the West are much lower than Dublin? That means people being paid less than they would be for the same job in Dublin.
    Business can exploit that now. This will have huge implications, many obvious positives for rural dwellers but perhaps negatives we can’t see yet.

    It’s true about classroom learning and that’s why full time education may continue in the old way a bit longer, I think. Eighteen year olds love the idea of college and young people generally find it great craic. But slightly older people studying part time will do it online.

    Lots of older people go back to college or do courses for the social aspect. I don't get that point at all. It's usually people who don't have time or proximity who do distance learning. It's not really about age I world assume.

    Business could always exploit that. But didn't. So it's more multi layered than just labor costs.


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    #51
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    salonfire wrote: »
    Now that the world knows how relatively well working remotely can function, there is a whole sub-continent that will aim itself to take your IT job off-shore.

    Be very careful of advocating how well remote working is

    Out sourcing is entirely different to remote working. Not the same thing at all. A lot of outsourcing doesn't work for a variety of reasons.


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    #52
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    dubrov wrote: »
    It's not sustainable for any longer than 2 weeks without a breakdown

    For you.


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sconsey wrote: »
    I have worked in IT for the last 20 years, outsourcing jobs to lower cost countries is part and parcel of the business. The fact that people can successfully work remotely is not news either.

    Why hasn't more of it been done if that the case.


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    #54
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Sconsey wrote: »
    The fact that people can successfully work remotely is not news either.

    To many companies, this would be the first time experiencing their entire workforce at home for a sustained period of time.

    How is it "not news" to them? Until tried and tested, only then can they decide if it is successful for that particular business or not.


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    #55
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,554 ✭✭✭dubrov


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    For you.

    You obviously don't have kids if you think that schedule is doable long term.

    Long term commuting is doable long-term although may lead to a poor quality of life


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    #56
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    salonfire wrote: »
    Now that the world knows how relatively well working remotely can function, there is a whole sub-continent that will aim itself to take your IT job off-shore.

    Be very careful of advocating how well remote working is

    Correct. We will lose jobs to lower cost locations or resources if they are proven to work remotely. Not India per we but any resources that speak English and have lower salary expectations.


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    #57
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,811 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    aren't there tax implications if you're working for an Irish company but living in Spain or somewhere?


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    #58
    Sconsey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why hasn't more of it been done if that the case.

    So many reasons, but off the top of my head based on what I have seen:
    • certain types of jobs can't be offshored for legal reasons
    • it's rare to be able to get a like-for-like exchange of skills, experience, and capability...never underestimate the value of a little cop-on!
    • the overall cost saving is not as huge as people might think and can often require significant investment
    • certain customers want their support staff in their own country
    • massive management overhead, in my experience a lot of offshore employees don't want responsibility
    • huge amount of 'churn' or re-work in the work, also serious amount of churn in resources..they are poached once they get a bit of experience
    • automation is constantly replacing the 'low-value' roles (this impacts all countries but more-so the low cost countries

    Ask yourself this..why are there any IT jobs in Ireland if it is easy to offshore everything? same for the rest of Europe. Remote working is red-herring.

    I think you will find that the majority of IT roles in Ireland are not the 'low-value' roles, they went away many years ago (and are now being replace by automation anyway).


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    #59
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    dubrov wrote: »
    You obviously don't have kids if you think that schedule is doable long term.

    Long term commuting is doable long-term although may lead to a poor quality of life

    Again, for you.

    People are doing that type of schedule. The fact that you're not aware of them doesn't change the fact.


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    #60
    Addle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    I’d miss seeing (some) colleagues regularly.


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    #61
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,702 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    Again, for you.

    People are doing that type of schedule. The fact that you're not aware of them doesn't change the fact.

    If they are they are either doing a rubbish job at work , rubbish job with their kids or probably both


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