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If Work From Home becomes a thing...

bilbot79

I'd be tempted to buy a little apartment in the Canaries and spend my winters there, in fact I'd probably

1/ Sell my Dublin gaff

2/ By a cheaper Irish gaff in the countryside

3/ Buy a place in the Canaries

4/ Buy another place somewhere in Europe, Hvar or somewhere like that

And just spend weeks and months in each place.

How would the rest of you exploit work from home if you had it permanently?

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December2012

For me, 3 days a week in the office would be perfect. I would get to see my colleagues, have meetings, and be in the car. I also get to be in a different location for walks during my lunch, etc.,

Then at home the other 2 days, no M50, no commute, maybe get more workouts in, more family time, and hopefully less childcare costs for afterschool, because my children are of an age where that would suit us.

After breaking my back for a very long time suffering the payment of two children in childcare, I look forward to this as a silver lining.

snotboogie

rn wrote: »

I agree with this. In the short term office space is a waste. In the medium term, due to social distancing requirements office space is likely twice as expensive per worker.

This could be the start of the next "down turn" in big urban area growth that has been going on since probably the downturns of the 70s.

We could be locked into a depression cycle where big businesses look to reduce cost in office space, causing a spike in knock on closures in businesses that support huge numbers of people in City centres. This would effect all services from maintenance, engineering, shops, restaurants etc. Hence knock on reductions in spending.

It'll be a win for small towns and villages, who are well positioned to take in a few new people as they probably have spare capacity in terms of housing, schools, healthcare and shops.

I wouldn't like to be the ESB right now as they hope to become a major landlord after their new offices are completed.

Urbanization since 1970 is arguably the most notable trend in human activity. Everything is being viewed through the prism of a family with parents in their mid 30's to mid 50's. College students will still need to attend a college, upon graduating will the 20 somethings be happy to move to a village in rural Ireland and work remotely? As people hit their 60' they will want to be closer to medical facilities and as they get less mobile the McMansion which requires a 5 mile drive to the nearest Aldi and a 20 mile drive to the nearest GP will be a lot less appealing.

hmmm

There's going to be a set of rules specific to this crisis.

When it's over and we have the opportunity to go back to "normal", I expect many of the more traditional managers to demand everyone goes back to the office. Fine, but that will impact on their ability to retain and recruit new staff.

For others, I expect that they will want to see the social side of the office remain, so probably a day a week at a minimum in the office with your team. Bigger organisations already have virtual teams from all over the world, so this is less important for them.

It's bad news for city-centre property, and I'd expect people to move to nicer areas (maybe outskirts of city?) which still have decent transport links to the offices, but offer more in terms of leisure, outdoor activities etc. I'm not sure that the dream of moving to a remote island and working from home 5 days a week is quite on the table for most people yet.

gordongekko

jester77 wrote: »

, no beer deliveries allowed.

Where do you work?

jester77

My office just posted their list of rules for when returning. Have to register when you will be in the office, cannot be at the same time as the person beside you and opposite you, company will provide a mask and it must me worn when not at desk, now required to log in when arriving at work, no meetings unless super urgent, and then only 2 people allowed with distance, meeting room must be aired for 1 hour afterwards, no beer deliveries allowed, not allowed to move around building unless urgent and it must be logged, no more than 2 people in common areas at a time.

[Deleted User]

Cyrus wrote: »

Exactly I’ve seen some rubbish posted on boards but that must be the most nonsensical post I have ever had the misfortune to read

No mention of what the children are doing otherwise during the day. Preschoolers minding and entertaining themselves presumably.

A former employer of mine had a very detailed policy for working from home, the first line of which was that working from home is not a substitute for childcare.

Practically I can see myself working one or two days from home after this. I would miss some of the social and informal interactions too much to go full time from home, and having two small children is a distraction, even with my wife full time minding, doing pickups etc.

Sad Professor

I have very mixed feelings about WFH. A lot of it due to difficulties caused by the current circumstance along with issues specific to my job (no manager, unequal distribution of work, people with childcare/medical issues, technical issues, etc). I also really miss the social aspect of the office environment. I have colleagues who I miss seeing on a regular basis and going out for coffee with them etc. Staying in touch via Whatsapp etc isn't the same. It's difficult to know when someone is free and available to talk when you aren't in the same room as them.

Some kind of mix might be nice, especially if in a future role I found myself having to make a particularly long or inconvenient commute. However I'd worry about hot desking becoming the norm and not having a personal and consistent work space in the office.

893bet

A blended approach is wonderful.

Work life balance.

Less commute time
Less fuel and wear on car
Less traffic on road
Not having to take a days holidays so that you can be at home to let the skyman/plumber etc in to the house.

5 yrs time jobs will be advertised with a % wfh I would hope.

I agree with this. In the short term office space is a waste. In the medium term, due to social distancing requirements office space is likely twice as expensive per worker.

This could be the start of the next "down turn" in big urban area growth that has been going on since probably the downturns of the 70s.

We could be locked into a depression cycle where big businesses look to reduce cost in office space, causing a spike in knock on closures in businesses that support huge numbers of people in City centres. This would effect all services from maintenance, engineering, shops, restaurants etc. Hence knock on reductions in spending.

It'll be a win for small towns and villages, who are well positioned to take in a few new people as they probably have spare capacity in terms of housing, schools, healthcare and shops.

I wouldn't like to be the ESB right now as they hope to become a major landlord after their new offices are completed.

El Tarangu

Saw an interesting article on the topic today - if a lot more people are demanding to work from home, banks (any big company, really) will find it harder to justify spending big bucks renting huge office space in the most expensive areas in the world.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52467965

Which would presumably eventually drive the cost of office space down, and maybe change the land use of areas of citiy centres... Interesting times we are living in, anyway

Cyrus

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Not in the big four, but at the top of the next tier, I’m told by my accountant wife, who knows more than me. Tbh if you’re in that game you probably know more than me. This woman told us it is very hard to get decent people, very good time to be an accountant.

Yeah that’s probably true but outside of the big 4 it’s a different ball game and if it’s where I think it is I can see why they need to offer things the top 4 firms don’t , we have hired a few from there and wfh hasn’t been on the table but they are very happy to be out of there for whatever reason!

[Deleted User]

Cyrus wrote: »

I don’t know what practice she is in but the big 4 don’t tend to go in for that and the rest of the firms aren’t major

Not my experience of hiring experienced accountants at all as it goes

Not in the big four, but at the top of the next tier, I’m told by my accountant wife, who knows more than me. Tbh if you’re in that game you probably know more than me. This woman told us it is very hard to get decent people, very good time to be an accountant.

Cyrus

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

I know three couples who in the last two years have moved to Clare from Dublin and kept their old jobs.
Know a partner in a major accountancy practice who told me last year that working at least part time from home was something most accountants in Dublin now expect if they are moving to a new job. She said it is hard enough to recruit them anyway, so not offering working from home part time wasn’t really an option.
Surely working from home is already a thing?

I don’t know what practice she is in but the big 4 don’t tend to go in for that and the rest of the firms aren’t major

Not my experience of hiring experienced accountants at all as it goes

[Deleted User]

I know three couples who in the last two years have moved to Clare from Dublin and kept their old jobs.
Know a partner in a major accountancy practice who told me last year that working at least part time from home was something most accountants in Dublin now expect if they are moving to a new job. She said it is hard enough to recruit them anyway, so not offering working from home part time wasn’t really an option.
Surely working from home is already a thing?

the14thwarrior

If working from home becomes a thing........
i'd crack up and find a job with an office and a desk because at the moment......
I'm using a make shift desk as my real desk
a crappy chair as my office chair
tripping over everything in my bedroom to access a million plugs to keep everything charged up

i'm isolated enough without having to traispe down stairs and avoid the other person working from home (and hope they are not on a conference call) to take a break from the "office" but i find i have no where to go.

I'm frequently to be found sitting on my doorstep to see a different view
family and friends think working from home means you are available to answer the door / phone / take in deliveries at all times

internet crashing and stupid team people ...... who think they can work from home........ but don't understand a bit about it at all..........don't get me started on microsoft teams and zoom..........

i miss saying hello to people
i miss the gossip and the craic
i miss having a tea break with (some) people
I miss having a proper printer and easy access to supplies
i miss having a head space to commute and i never thought i'd say that.....

Cyrus

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Again, for you.

People are doing that type of schedule. The fact that you're not aware of them doesn't change the fact.

If they are they are either doing a rubbish job at work , rubbish job with their kids or probably both

Addle

I’d miss seeing (some) colleagues regularly.

BrianBoru00

dubrov wrote: »

You obviously don't have kids if you think that schedule is doable long term.

Long term commuting is doable long-term although may lead to a poor quality of life

Again, for you.

People are doing that type of schedule. The fact that you're not aware of them doesn't change the fact.

Sconsey

Deleted User wrote: »

Why hasn't more of it been done if that the case.

So many reasons, but off the top of my head based on what I have seen:

certain types of jobs can't be offshored for legal reasons
it's rare to be able to get a like-for-like exchange of skills, experience, and capability...never underestimate the value of a little cop-on!
the overall cost saving is not as huge as people might think and can often require significant investment
certain customers want their support staff in their own country
massive management overhead, in my experience a lot of offshore employees don't want responsibility
huge amount of 'churn' or re-work in the work, also serious amount of churn in resources..they are poached once they get a bit of experience
automation is constantly replacing the 'low-value' roles (this impacts all countries but more-so the low cost countries

Ask yourself this..why are there any IT jobs in Ireland if it is easy to offshore everything? same for the rest of Europe. Remote working is red-herring.

I think you will find that the majority of IT roles in Ireland are not the 'low-value' roles, they went away many years ago (and are now being replace by automation anyway).

Thelonious Monk

aren't there tax implications if you're working for an Irish company but living in Spain or somewhere?

Snow Garden

salonfire wrote: »

Now that the world knows how relatively well working remotely can function, there is a whole sub-continent that will aim itself to take your IT job off-shore.

Be very careful of advocating how well remote working is

Correct. We will lose jobs to lower cost locations or resources if they are proven to work remotely. Not India per we but any resources that speak English and have lower salary expectations.

dubrov

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

For you.

You obviously don't have kids if you think that schedule is doable long term.

Long term commuting is doable long-term although may lead to a poor quality of life

[Deleted User]

Sconsey wrote: »

The fact that people can successfully work remotely is not news either.

To many companies, this would be the first time experiencing their entire workforce at home for a sustained period of time.

How is it "not news" to them? Until tried and tested, only then can they decide if it is successful for that particular business or not.

[Deleted User]

Sconsey wrote: »

I have worked in IT for the last 20 years, outsourcing jobs to lower cost countries is part and parcel of the business. The fact that people can successfully work remotely is not news either.

Why hasn't more of it been done if that the case.

BrianBoru00

dubrov wrote: »

It's not sustainable for any longer than 2 weeks without a breakdown

For you.

beauf

salonfire wrote: »

Now that the world knows how relatively well working remotely can function, there is a whole sub-continent that will aim itself to take your IT job off-shore.

Be very careful of advocating how well remote working is

Out sourcing is entirely different to remote working. Not the same thing at all. A lot of outsourcing doesn't work for a variety of reasons.

beauf

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Public sector is different for sure, but surely you know labour costs in the West are much lower than Dublin? That means people being paid less than they would be for the same job in Dublin.
Business can exploit that now. This will have huge implications, many obvious positives for rural dwellers but perhaps negatives we can’t see yet.

It’s true about classroom learning and that’s why full time education may continue in the old way a bit longer, I think. Eighteen year olds love the idea of college and young people generally find it great craic. But slightly older people studying part time will do it online.

Lots of older people go back to college or do courses for the social aspect. I don't get that point at all. It's usually people who don't have time or proximity who do distance learning. It's not really about age I world assume.

Business could always exploit that. But didn't. So it's more multi layered than just labor costs.

Sconsey

salonfire wrote: »

Now that the world knows how relatively well working remotely can function, there is a whole sub-continent that will aim itself to take your IT job off-shore.

Be very careful of advocating how well remote working is

I have worked in IT for the last 20 years, outsourcing jobs to lower cost countries is part and parcel of the business. The fact that people can successfully work remotely is not news either.

[Deleted User]

salonfire wrote: »

Now that the world knows how relatively well working remotely can function, there is a whole sub-continent that will aim itself to take your IT job off-shore.

Be very careful of advocating how well remote working is

There’s the danger for Ireland, we have to be competitive. Lost many manufacturing jobs to less wealthy countries in the last 30 years, same forces in effect.

[Deleted User]

beauf wrote: »

I don't think people will accept different wages doing the same job. Especially not in a unionised environment. The private sector will always be you get what you negotiate, and in that situation you are probably aware of the going market rate for the job and what you are worth.

As for remote learning, that only goes so far. Classroom is a richer experience, even from a social level, networking, to experience a different environment etc.

Public sector is different for sure, but surely you know labour costs in the West are much lower than Dublin? That means people being paid less than they would be for the same job in Dublin.
Business can exploit that now. This will have huge implications, many obvious positives for rural dwellers but perhaps negatives we can’t see yet.

It’s true about classroom learning and that’s why full time education may continue in the old way a bit longer, I think. Eighteen year olds love the idea of college and young people generally find it great craic. But slightly older people studying part time will do it online.