Ireland v Wales 07/09/2019

Former Former · 06-09-2019 12:51pm

aloooof wrote: »

It's not an either or scenario tho. Surely it's far more likely that the coaches decided he wasn't in with a shout because he wasn't hitting his marks in training?

I dunno. Like, Toner has been such a mainstay of the team for so long, didn't play that badly in the warm-ups... he must have been absolutely stinking the place out to find himself no longer one of the five best locks? And so bad that Joe decided a few more weeks in camp wouldn't fix it?

Who knows, maybe, but it just seems very odd.

My point is; it's not so much a case of Kleyn being parachuted in, more that Toner has been dropped. Net effect is the same but they're different things.

joseywhales · 06-09-2019 1:19pm

Boards:

*complains about Joe's loyalty with out of form players*

*Complains when he drops a mainstay that is out of form*

hahashake · 06-09-2019 1:29pm

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Lowe's comments not exactly overflowing with enthusiasm, but I've no doubt that he'll give 100% when he's called up: https://www.the42.ie/james-lowe-4796720-Sep2019/. Cracking player to have (despite hating that he's playing in blue ; what a signing, in his prime!)

Surprised he would be so honest abut the situation. Especially this:

“We sat in a pub in Greece watching the Cricket World Cup”, Lowe added with a nod toward fellow guest Scott Fardy, “and I’m still supporting New Zealand but I’m like, ‘Am I allowed support New Zealand?’ Ireland weren’t there, so…"

I'm sure he'd give his all but he is really highlighting the mercenary aspect in that article.

tototoe · 06-09-2019 1:30pm

D.Q wrote: »

Luke Fitzgerald is an absolute clown.

Have to agree. Loves the sound of his own voice.his podcast is fair bad, and his match commentary the few times I've heard him is drivel as well. He was on channel 4 earlier this year and he just wouldn't shut up...on and on and on. Hasn't been on there since afaik.

He's not someone to pay attention to.

aloooof · 06-09-2019 1:31pm

Former Former wrote: »

I dunno. Like, Toner has been such a mainstay of the team for so long, didn't play that badly in the warm-ups... he must have been absolutely stinking the place out to find himself no longer one of the five best locks? And so bad that Joe decided a few more weeks in camp wouldn't fix it?

Who knows, maybe, but it just seems very odd.

My point is; it's not so much a case of Kleyn being parachuted in, more that Toner has been dropped. Net effect is the same but they're different things.

I'd agree, it's more the latter than the former but they go hand-in-hand. Toner was only dropped because there was a replacement that Joe thinks is up to a certain standard to replace him. The decision to drop Toner wasn't made in isolation.

Downlinz · 06-09-2019 1:43pm

hahashake wrote: »

Surprised he would be so honest abut the situation. Especially this:

“We sat in a pub in Greece watching the Cricket World Cup”, Lowe added with a nod toward fellow guest Scott Fardy, “and I’m still supporting New Zealand but I’m like, ‘Am I allowed support New Zealand?’ Ireland weren’t there, so…"

I'm sure he'd give his all but he is really highlighting the mercenary aspect in that article.

Bundee Aki said much the same at a similar point in his contract although maybe his attitude has changed since.
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/bundee-aki-connacht-91496

"I’ve taken in a lot of what Irish people do and stuff like that. I’ve enjoyed Irish culture and stuff like that but it’s wrong for me to say I’m Irish. I’ve enjoyed the culture and the environment I’m in, but for me to say I’m Irish, that’s wrong for me to say because I wasn’t born here.

"And it’s wrong for me to take away from the guys who were born here and who want to play for the Irish and are Irish. I’m just here. My ambition is to play international, I like taking in the culture as an Irish person, but it’s wrong for me to say I’m Irish."

Although by contrast CJ Stander has always leaned into considering himself as a Limerick man, wanted a new life in Ireland and said he saw no future for himself in South Africa.
I suppose it's an individual thing and while some of those players certainly seem to have mercenary motivation others have adapted Ireland as part of their identity.

Kevski · 06-09-2019 1:43pm

tototoe wrote: »

Have to agree. Loves the sound of his own voice.his podcast is fair bad, and his match commentary the few times I've heard him is drivel as well. He was on channel 4 earlier this year and he just wouldn't shut up...on and on and on. Hasn't been on there since afaik.

He's not someone to pay attention to.

That fact that the intro to the left wing consists solely of clips of commentary from tries that he scored says a hell of a lot.

hahashake · 06-09-2019 2:01pm

Downlinz wrote: »

Bundee Aki said much the same at a similar point in his contract although maybe his attitude has changed since.
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/bundee-aki-connacht-91496

"I’ve taken in a lot of what Irish people do and stuff like that. I’ve enjoyed Irish culture and stuff like that but it’s wrong for me to say I’m Irish. I’ve enjoyed the culture and the environment I’m in, but for me to say I’m Irish, that’s wrong for me to say because I wasn’t born here.

"And it’s wrong for me to take away from the guys who were born here and who want to play for the Irish and are Irish. I’m just here. My ambition is to play international, I like taking in the culture as an Irish person, but it’s wrong for me to say I’m Irish."

Although by contrast CJ Stander has always leaned into considering himself as a Limerick man, wanted a new life in Ireland and said he saw no future for himself in South Africa.
I suppose it's an individual thing and while some of those players certainly seem to have mercenary motivation others have adapted Ireland as part of their identity.

Given the situation in SA, I assume SA players are far more likely to adopt their new country as their permanent home.

aloooof · 06-09-2019 2:09pm

Kevski wrote: »

That fact that the intro to the left wing consists solely of clips of commentary from tries that he scored says a hell of a lot.

Are you serious? That's pretty cringe-worthy if so.

I've never listened to teh podcast, with one exception, the Paul Kimmage episode. Which is hilarious.

Dog Botherer · 06-09-2019 3:04pm

Fitzgerald is an awful analyst and a complete blowhard as a presenter, which is unfortunate since The Left Wing consistently has very good guests, only for the conversation to be rendered unlistenable by Luke.

Have a feeling those appearances will dry up after a bit of time is put between Luke and the squad. Unless he goes full Hook and gets himself a contrarian spot on Eir or the like he’d want to focus on his token job, the noble trade of banking.

thebaz · 06-09-2019 4:29pm

yerrahbah wrote: »

Why is it not fair that Kleyn was selected?
Why is he not more deserving?

Well I see him as South African , he grew up as a South African , came to Ireland as an adult to play professional rugby (no problem with that) - but declaring for Ireland after a couple of years of residency I have an issue with - same as if Zebo started playing for France - I see him as Irish -

Personally at lower levels I have been on the wrong end of players being brought in . Football , not perfect , is run much better internationally - MY OPINION - but i feal for Dillane and Toner

molloyjh · 06-09-2019 4:34pm

Ah here, theres plenty of things to give Luke stick over, theres no need to be inventing stuff. The podcast intro is done by production staff, not him.

jacothelad · 06-09-2019 4:47pm

Kevski wrote: »

That fact that the intro to the left wing consists solely of clips of commentary from tries that he scored says a hell of a lot.

It would be a short intro then...

Lil Sally Anne Jnr. · 06-09-2019 5:09pm

I watched the first half of our victory against NZ again last night. Interesting viewing as it's basically the same team, plus Toner and Marmion. Astonishing how well everyone played. It feels like a very long time ago that everything was sticking like that.

sydthebeat · 06-09-2019 5:49pm

thebaz wrote: »

that will be great comfort to Dev and Dillane -

They knew three years ago that there was a South African lock joining munster.

Its extra challange for a position which unfortunately they didn't succeed in this time. Nothing stopping then from raising their game to get ahead again, other than their ability.

Same goes for wingers when Lowe gets qualified, or JGP gets qualified. If you want that position you'd better be good enough to claim it. Your family tree does not, and should not, entitle you to any position in sport and to claim otherwise is xenophobic at least.

thebaz · 06-09-2019 6:05pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

They knew three years ago that there was a South African lock joining munster.

Its extra challange for a position which unfortunately they didn't succeed in this time. Nothing stopping then from raising their game to get ahead again, other than their ability.

Same goes for wingers when Lowe gets qualified, or JGP gets qualified. If you want that position you'd better be good enough to claim it. Your family tree does not, and should not, entitle you to any position in sport and to claim otherwise is xenophobic at least.

Is it Xenophoic to say that Toner and Dillane are more Irish than Kleyn, who was born and bred in South Africa ??
So players have to just up ther game to accomadate the latest import , regardless how good - thats what club rugby is for , international sport really is about the best players from a country playing the best players from another country .
- many of these players themselves admit it is a bit joke saying they are Irish - as per previous posts.

thesiegeof · 06-09-2019 6:09pm

I know some of the smaller nations (rugby wise) have many imports. We have 3 (Carberry can't be included) who've made the squad this time. What about other countries? I know New Zealand is controversial but does anyone have any figures? Or how many do Wales have, considering this is an Ireland v Wales thread.

thebaz · 06-09-2019 6:16pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

They knew three years ago that there was a South African lock joining munster.

Its extra challange for a position which unfortunately they didn't succeed in this time. Nothing stopping then from raising their game to get ahead again, other than their ability.

and anything I've seen of Dillane and Toner in that time, both have played better than Kleyn, so not buying that of upping ther game bit

Bridge93 · 06-09-2019 6:36pm

Well they aren’t being picked. So naturally to be picked they must up their game. Unless you think Schmidt is selecting Kleyn for some altering motive other than performance and suitability

thebaz · 06-09-2019 6:40pm

Bridge93 wrote: »

Well they aren’t being picked. So naturally to be picked they must up their game. Unless you think Schmidt is selecting Kleyn for some altering motive other than performance and suitability

well hopefully I see something tomorrow, that I havnt seen from Kleyn yet

Henry Ford III · 06-09-2019 7:02pm

thebaz wrote: »

Is it Xenophoic to say that Toner and Dillane are more Irish than Kleyn, who was born and bred in South Africa ??

No it's factual. Kleyn isn't and doesn't claim to be Irish. He is Irish qualified though.

p.s. Dillane was born abroad.

salmocab · 06-09-2019 7:07pm

thebaz wrote: »

Football , not perfect , is run much better internationally - MY OPINION

Not sure I’d agree with this, think I’m happier with someone who has lived, worked and paid taxes here than someone who’s grandparents left. I know rugby has similar rules but in so far as the Irish team goes the rugby is to me far ahead of soccer.

sydthebeat · 06-09-2019 7:08pm

thebaz wrote: »

Is it Xenophoic to say that Toner and Dillane are more Irish than Kleyn, who was born and bred in South Africa ??

No. Its xenophobic to say that toner or dillane should be selected over kleyn because they are Irish and he is not.

After all, it is the selection that we are discussing.

Kleyn followed the rules, and has earned his place obviously because the coaches have seen him outperform the other choices.

Now don't think I'm in any way a cheerleader for IQs over Irish cos I'm not, but it doesn't sit well with me to champion one player over another due to their place of birth when both are eligible for selection. I've been one of toners biggest fans on here down through the years, I remember a time when both .ak and myself would be the main arguers for him over good competition. But in this case, I'm delighted beirne is in ahead of toner if dev isn't hitting his straps in training, and kleyn in ahead of ultan if ultans game isn't at the level it should be at.

These are "once in a four year window" competition and we need our best 31 out there

deise08 · 06-09-2019 8:30pm

Heading up tomorrow. First match in ages. So looking forward to it!!
Quick question.
Have people used their phones to listen to the refs mic or must you buy the ref link?
Seen a tweet during the six nations saying the frequency is 96fm.
Does this actually work?
Looking forward to a great game to see the lads off to Japan and also Joe and Rory's final aviva game.

BoardsMember · 06-09-2019 8:53pm

thebaz wrote: »

Well I see him as South African , he grew up as a South African , came to Ireland as an adult to play professional rugby (no problem with that) - but declaring for Ireland after a couple of years of residency I have an issue with - same as if Zebo started playing for France - I see him as Irish -

Personally at lower levels I have been on the wrong end of players being brought in . Football , not perfect , is run much better internationally - MY OPINION - but i feal for Dillane and Toner

Is that a joke about football being run much better? It must be, right? Kids being traded abroad before their teenage years. Irish teams for years ignoring home grown talent at an industrial scale. Administration here, in Europe, worldwide riddled with corruption at every level and massive scale. Jesus, football is the poster child for everything a sporting organisation should not be. Here and nearly everywhere else. For all its faults, rugby is run extremely well by and large

Jump_In_Jack · 06-09-2019 8:59pm

thesiegeof wrote: »

I know some of the smaller nations (rugby wise) have many imports. We have 3 (Carberry can't be included) who've made the squad this time. What about other countries? I know New Zealand is controversial but does anyone have any figures? Or how many do Wales have, considering this is an Ireland v Wales thread.

Wales have Hadleigh Parkes already qualified and are waiting for Willis Halaholo and Johnny McNichol to qualify soon.

Scotland have Willem Nel and Sam Johnson, with Josh Strauss missing the cut for the final 31 having trained with the wider squad.

thebaz · 06-09-2019 11:13pm

BoardsMember wrote: »

Is that a joke about football being run much better? It must be, right? Kids being traded abroad before their teenage years. Irish teams for years ignoring home grown talent at an industrial scale. Administration here, in Europe, worldwide riddled with corruption at every level and massive scale. Jesus, football is the poster child for everything a sporting organisation should not be. Here and nearly everywhere else. For all its faults, rugby is run extremely well by and large

I said international football - not football in general or club football - if I was Samoan or Tongan not sure how I would feal about this rugby World cup - but its grand for the bigger powerful nations including us.

sydthebeat · 06-09-2019 11:21pm

International soccer.....

Ray Hoghton
Andy townsend
Tony cascarino
John aldrige
Phil babb
Gary breen
Lee carsley
David connoly
Matt holland

Etc etc etc....

All deemed not good enough for England but welcome of the Irish granny phone call....
And the only reason the IQ system doesn't exist in Irish soccer is because we haven't a professional league good enough to attract international quality players.

Jeez if the FAI are your standard bearer for good governance then I'm afraid I'm out of words.....

Give me Jean kleyn earning his cap over michael Bents route anyday.

(nothing against bent, but that route to an international cap is a joke and absolute proof as to why we had an NIQ system)

thebaz · 07-09-2019 12:06am

sydthebeat wrote: »

International soccer.....

Ray Hoghton
Andy townsend
Tony cascarino
John aldrige
Phil babb
Gary breen
Lee carsley
David connoly
Matt holland

Etc etc etc....

All deemed not good enough for England but welcome of the Irish granny phone call....
And the only reason the IQ system doesn't exist in Irish soccer is because we haven't a professional league good enough to attract international quality players.

Jeez if the FAI are your standard bearer for good governance then I'm afraid I'm out of words.....

Give me Jean kleyn earning his cap over michael Bents route anyday.

(nothing against bent, but that route to an international cap is a joke and absolute proof as to why we had an NIQ system)

International soccer is not just Ireland and the FAI , the world cup has many other teams , which i was referring to , but nevermind interpret what you want - but I've said eneogh.

stephen_n · 07-09-2019 1:24am

thebaz wrote: »

that will be great comfort to Dev and Dillane -

Beirne is Irish

Ireland v Wales 07/09/2019

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