A socially acceptable form of hypocrisy?

Feisar · 23-07-2019 9:47pm

Well I has happy when the nurse told me he was a boy, only one penis to worry about.

23-07-2019 9:48pm

a sharpener that sharpens loads of pencils is a great sharpener
a pencil in too many sharpeners gets worn down to nothing

FFred · 23-07-2019 9:48pm

Thread is on a slippery slope.

Non-parents lecturing and patronising parents on how they should approach their children’s future sex lives.

I’m out.

eviltwin · 23-07-2019 9:49pm

FFred wrote: »

Thread is on a slippery slope.

Non-parents lecturing and patronising parents on how they should approach their children’s future sex lives.

I’m out.

How do you know who here is a parent and who isn't

bfa1509 · 23-07-2019 9:51pm

bluewolf wrote: »

a sharpener that sharpens loads of pencils is a great sharpener
a pencil in too many sharpeners gets worn down to nothing

Ha! I think a lot of men, erm, I mean pencils would make it their business to get worn down to nothing!

FFred · 23-07-2019 9:52pm

FFred wrote: »

Huh?
Before I respond, please humour me, how old are your children?

eviltwin wrote: »

How do you know who here is a parent and who isn't

I know you are because you’ve mentioned it about 23000 times.

Other than that, the advanced search function is very useful.

Have a nice evening

eviltwin · 23-07-2019 9:53pm

FFred wrote: »

I know you are because you’ve mentioned it about 23000 times.

Other than that, the advanced search function is very useful.

Have a nice evening

Maybe you should listen to people with a bit of experience

One eyed Jack · 23-07-2019 9:56pm

eviltwin wrote: »

The best way of dealing with that is to teach your daughter to be informed about safe sex and to be assertive.

But jam_jam doesn’t have a daughter?

FFred · 23-07-2019 9:56pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Maybe you should listen to people with a bit of experience

Let it go.

Ps, I have more children than you :pac:

One eyed Jack · 23-07-2019 10:02pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Maybe you should listen to people with a bit of experience

I’m all for listening to people with a bit of experience, but when it’s being suggested that I’m wrong to view men and women differently, that’s not the voice of experience, that’s the voice of an ideology which is an attempt to argue the way I should regard both men and women as the same. It’s not something I would want to teach my son either, nor would I ever want him to view men and women as the same.

Feisar · 23-07-2019 10:03pm

It's not good for the soul to be riding everyone. Nothing wrong with a bit/plenty of TLC but be doing it for the right reasons. Doesn't have to be love or anything as long as it's fun for everyone.

Gimme A Pound · 23-07-2019 10:10pm

FFred wrote: »

Thread is on a slippery slope.

Non-parents lecturing and patronising parents on how they should approach their children’s future sex lives.

I’m out.

Well I certainly wouldn't be super permissive towards teenage children in relation to sex (particularly when under the age of consent) but at the same time, if you've a sexual history like Ron Jeremy, then you'd surely understand that your teenage children may have or want a sex life. I don't think you're literally a prude in this regard but imo the more beneficial approach would be an emphasis on safe sex, don't do it just to be cool, respect yourself etc rather than a ban (if that's what you meant).

volchitsa · 23-07-2019 10:10pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Yeah that's exactly what I said about my son. I am not going to a argue a strawman.
If you don't see how the consequences of having babies is worse for women then I am not going to explain to you.

Nowadays I think the consequences are not all that much different. Being pursued for maintenance by someone you don't love for a child you are rarely allowed to see is no laugh either I'm told.

And you're ignoring the fact that any children born are your grandchildren. So I'm puzzled as to why you would seem uninterested in the fate of those children just because they were your son's and not your daughter's.

volchitsa · 23-07-2019 10:12pm

FFred wrote: »

Huh?
Before I respond, please humour me, how old are your children?

I've just become a grandmother. You?

volchitsa · 23-07-2019 10:14pm

FFred wrote: »

Thread is on a slippery slope.

Non-parents lecturing and patronising parents on how they should approach their children’s future sex lives.

I’m out.

You seem to have made that assumption about me, but you're wrong, I have three.

Any chance you could lose the unwarranted assumptions and the dismissive tone now please?

FFred · 23-07-2019 10:18pm

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Well I certainly wouldn't be super permissive towards teenage children in relation to sex (particularly when under the age of consent) but at the same time, if you've a sexual history like Ron Jeremy, then you'd surely understand that your teenage children may have or want a sex life. I don't think you're literally a prude in this regard but imo the more beneficial approach would be an emphasis on safe sex, don't do it just to be cool, respect yourself etc rather than a ban (if that's what you meant).

Hi Gimme

Nail on the head!

The Ron Jeremy thing was obviously my AH-type humour to make a ‘hyperbolic’ point

FFred · 23-07-2019 10:21pm

volchitsa wrote: »

I've just become a grandmother. You?

Congratulations

FFred · 23-07-2019 10:23pm

volchitsa wrote: »

You seem to have made that assumption about me, but you're wrong, I have three.

Any chance you could lose the unwarranted assumptions and the dismissive tone now please?

Nope, I knew you had children. You assumed I was referring to you?

Dismissive? Me? I’m not even going to address that point :pac:

volchitsa · 23-07-2019 10:33pm

FFred wrote: »

Nope, I knew you had children. You assumed I was referring to you?

Dismissive? Me? I’m not even going to address that point :pac:

I wonder what your point was in asking what ages mine were then?

Anyway, now you know they're late teens and adult (youngest is 18, eldest 26) you can tell me what ages yours are, and then respond to my point that as a parent, the lives of any grandchildren are, or should be, equally important whether they're a son's or a daughter's, and that a young, unprepared father is probably at a disadvantage in our society, or at any rate his parents are going to find it much harder to be a positive presence in their grandchild's life if the relationship between the parents is not good.

Basically if your daughter has an unwanted pregnancy, or is is struggling with her child/children, you can help in all sorts of ways. If your son has children with someone you don't know/don't get on with, and you feel she is failing as a mother, there's almost nothing you can do to improve the children's lives.

So no, despite the predictable sneering about only women getting pregnant, I don't agree that as a parent, I should be more worried about my daughter getting pregnant in an unsuitable relationship than my son. If anything, I would probably worry more about a son. For the reasons I've given.

FFred · 23-07-2019 10:44pm

volchitsa wrote: »

I wonder what your point was in asking what ages mine were then?

Anyway, now you know they're late teens and adult (youngest is 18, eldest 26) you can tell me what ages yours are, and then respond to my point that as a parent, the lives of any grandchildren are, or should be, equally important whether they're a son's or a daughter's, and that a young, unprepared father is probably at a disadvantage in our society, or at any rate his parents are going to find it much harder to be a positive presence in their grandchild's life if the relationship between the parents is not good.

Basically if your daughter has an unwanted pregnancy, or is is struggling with her child/children, you can help in all sorts of ways. If your son has children with someone you don't know/don't get on with, and you feel she is failing as a mother, there's almost nothing you can do to improve the children's lives.

So no, despite the predictable sneering about only women getting pregnant, I don't agree that as a parent, I should be more worried about my daughter getting pregnant in an unsuitable relationship than my son. If anything, I would probably worry more about a son. For the reasons I've given.

Hi,
You have quoted my individual post okay, but have responded to other people’s arguments about unwanted pregnancies etc which I was never involved in. I’m confused.

You and I have different approaches to sex education and exposure for our offspring and that’s cool, but please read back on my posts and don’t drag me into an argument about pregnancy and the likes, that I wasn’t involved with in the first place.

Take care

ScottCapper · 23-07-2019 10:46pm

Arranged marriages is the answer!

One eyed Jack · 23-07-2019 10:50pm

volchitsa wrote: »

Basically if your daughter has an unwanted pregnancy, or is is struggling with her child/children, you can help in all sorts of ways. If your son has children with someone you don't know/don't get on with, and you feel she is failing as a mother, there's almost nothing you can do to improve the children's lives.

That’s a completely different scenario though. They’re not your daughter, so your judgment that they’re failing as a parent isn’t actually any more relevant than if her parents were to make judgements about your son.

volchitsa wrote: »

So no, despite the predictable sneering about only women getting pregnant, I don't agree that as a parent, I should be more worried about my daughter getting pregnant in an unsuitable relationship than my son. If anything, I would probably worry more about a son. For the reasons I've given.

Predictable sneering? I was pointing out the fact that the potential consequences of sexual intercourse are not the same for boys as they are for girls. That’s just a fact, predicated on the differences in male and female biology. It doesn’t mean I’m not concerned that he might one day impregnate a woman, it simply means that because I’ve taught him to take responsibility for the consequences of his actions, I would expect that he is mature enough at that point to deal with the potential consequences of his actions!

I do see where you’re coming from, but what someone else’s daughter would choose to do is primarily her parents concern, than mine, seeing as she’s not my daughter.

jam_mac_jam · 23-07-2019 11:33pm

volchitsa wrote: »

Nowadays I think the consequences are not all that much different. Being pursued for maintenance by someone you don't love for a child you are rarely allowed to see is no laugh either I'm told.

And you're ignoring the fact that any children born are your grandchildren. So I'm puzzled as to why you would seem uninterested in the fate of those children just because they were your son's and not your daughter's.

Why would I be uninterested in any grandchildren? I think a woman's life is more effected by an unwanted pregnancy then a man. Even physically and psychologically. If they have it, if they don't have it and have an abortion.

women have to worry more about getting pregnant. Its a year out of college or work and most of the burden falls on women. Even if the man supports her which I assume my son would, he doesn't loose a year of his life, his body changed forever, the risk of postnatal depression, a lot of pain. It is a huge difference. To the person having the child.

I don't think for a second that has any bearing on my attitude to the child which would be the same if I had a daughter. Did I suggest otherwise or are you just jumping to conclusions.

volchitsa · 23-07-2019 11:48pm

FFred wrote: »

Hi,
You have quoted my individual post okay, but have responded to other people’s arguments about unwanted pregnancies etc which I was never involved in. I’m confused.

You and I have different approaches to sex education and exposure for our offspring and that’s cool, but please read back on my posts and don’t drag me into an argument about pregnancy and the likes, that I wasn’t involved with in the first place.

I’m alright around here, you’ll find, if you stalk me.:)

PS, I have one child in a similar age bracket to yours, and another four much younger

No idea why you think I'd stalk you?
I was explaining my opinion, not just replying to a single post. I just didn't think multiquoting was worthwhile there,because it's all opinion here, mine as well as everyone else's.
FWIW, I don't think any number of small children gives any insight into teenage or adult relationships. You need to have come out the other side to really have that perspective.

volchitsa · 23-07-2019 11:54pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Why would I be uninterested in any grandchildren? I think a woman's life is more effected by an unwanted pregnancy then a man. Even physically and psychologically. If they have it, if they don't have it and have an abortion.

women have to worry more about getting pregnant. Its a year out of college or work and most of the burden falls on women. Even if the man supports her which I assume my son would, he doesn't loose a year of his life, his body changed forever, the risk of postnatal depression, a lot of pain. It is a huge difference. To the person having the child.

I don't think for a second that has any bearing on my attitude to the child which would be the same if I had a daughter. Did I suggest otherwise or are you just jumping to conclusions.

A woman's life is more affected by pregnancy full stop, but that's not really what's behind this attitude that a son can be a stud but a daughter needs to be guarded until handed over to her husband.

And clearly you are ignoring the fact that whether your son or your daughter has a pregnancy in an unstable or unsuitable relationship, the resulting child has the same relationship to you - because that means that the consequence is the same whether it's your son or your daughter.

FFred · 23-07-2019 11:59pm

volchitsa wrote: »

FWIW, I don't think any number of small children gives any insight into teenage or adult relationships. You need to have come out the other side to really have that perspective.

Why should I bother arguing with you

volchitsa · 24-07-2019 12:04am

FFred wrote: »

And yet again you just don’t fcucking listen so I’ll put it in BOLD ..

I have a daughter who is aged 23

Do you comprehend? (that means understand btw)

FFS

You didn't say that, you said one in the age group I mentioned, so I assumed at the younger end, ie 18.

No need to get snotty. I'm done with your ignorance. You're a rude and unpleasant poster.

FFred · 24-07-2019 12:07am

volchitsa wrote: »

You're a rude and unpleasant poster.

I’m really not. Have a nice evening

ILoveYourVibes · 24-07-2019 1:32am

diusmr8a504cvk · 24-07-2019 1:49am

bfa1509 wrote: »

Being hypocritical has a negative connotation close to 100% of the time. But what about a father who doesn't like his daughter going out with boys but applauds his son for seeing lots of girls. I think this is a common enough occurrence (I'm not a father, but this would definitely be my attitude if I was). Is this not acceptable?

And if this offends any female (or males for that matter), do not fret, I think it's a hypocrisy that is borne out of love; as the father believes no man is good enough for his daughter but any girl is good enough for his son.

Would you agree? If not, are there any acceptable forms of hypocrisy?

There's a deep ingrained mentality that women are pure and sacred and that men are sex-driven people.
This isn't me complaining of women being looked at in a brighter light I might add.

ILoveYourVibes · 24-07-2019 2:22am

Theodore Proud Stranger wrote: »

Just reading responses and wondering if I am too strict.

I don't allow eldest son and daughter gfs/bfs stay over. I just don't feel comfortable with it, I do my best to make them feel welcome otherwise but no staying over.

It's just always been a rule I have in my house (son/daughter aren't happy with it) but I know for me when I was entering early adulthood it was a motivating factor for actually wanting to get a place of your own, being able to stay with the OH and enjoy privacy etc.

I don't think I'm a prude, maybe I am too strict. I'm trying to think ahead and start as I mean to go on and set rules/example for the younger kids in our family too.

I don't want to become that mammy cooking, cleaning and washing for them all and their partners.

Quite right too.

Graces7 · 24-07-2019 7:09am

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

unfortunately not. The consequences of sex can be pregnancy which is not the same for a man and a woman.

should and would be if the man showed any sense of responsibility .

A socially acceptable form of hypocrisy?

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