Chemtrails ?

You're straying off topic BMC. There's not much point in saying conspiracies in a broad sense could happen, the topic is chem trails - not insider trading etc etc

Bmc1895 wrote: »

Not that i believe in chemtrails, but if you dont believe people with power will do anything they can to keep it well then you are simply naive .
Im sure they have thought of more outrageous things .

So if we were to give you power you'd do anything to hold onto it? Is it like a cause and effect? A human gets power, they become ruthless and greedy.

The people with power and money are the same machine as poor people on the street. They're capable of the same variety as every other section of society. Come are *****, some are sound, some are lazy, some work their fingers to the bone. Very few would even have the desire to be part of some global conspiracy to kill innocent people, never mind invest their wealth into it on the promise they'll get preferential treatment in a new fascist world order.

ScumLord wrote: »

Bmc1895 wrote: »

Not that i believe in chemtrails, but if you dont believe people with power will do anything they can to keep it well then you are simply naive .
Im sure they have thought of more outrageous things .

So if we were to give you power you'd do anything to hold onto it? Is it like a cause and effect? A human gets power, they become ruthless and greedy.

The people with power and money are the same machine as poor people on the street. They're capable of the same variety as every other section of society. Come are *****, some are sound, some are lazy, some work their fingers to the bone. Very few would even have the desire to be part of some global conspiracy to kill innocent people, never mind invest their wealth into it on the promise they'll get preferential treatment in a new fascist world order.

This stuff is not theoretical in the least. US government has confirmed that they have engaged in wide-scale atmospheric chemical testing since at least the 1950s. They blanketed the entire United States with the technology available to them nearly seventy years ago.

Google Operation_LAC.

From the wiki:
>During the first test and subsequently, much of the material dispersed ended up being carried by winds into Canada.However, as was the case in the first test, particles were detected up to 1,200 miles away from their drop point. A typical flight line covering 400 miles would release 5,000 pounds of zinc cadmium sulfide and in fiscal year 1958 around 100 hours were spent in flight for LAC.That flight time included four runs of various lengths, one of which was 1,400 miles

Michael OBrien wrote: »

Its not attached to the plane at all. It is forming outside the plane from the airflow and water condensation. That is why, from that angle, you think it is coming from TWO places, when it is actually coming from neither. It is several feet from the plane on both sides.

Part of the chemtrail on the right seems to be obstructed be the plane. Looks like a poor photoshop.

ShangriRA wrote: »

This stuff is not theoretical in the least. US government has confirmed that they have engaged in wide-scale atmospheric chemical testing since at least the 1950s. They blanketed the entire United States with the technology available to them nearly seventy years ago.

There have been seeding tests done by a lot of countries, militaries and universities.. But the idea that commercial passenger jets produce chemtrails as standard is absurd.

I don't think any tests have been all that successful either. It's not like chemtrails are going to be all that significant in relation to all the other pollution we put into the ecosystem. It would be like throwing a sand bag into an overflowing river hoping it will stop your house from flooding.

If chemtrails have any negative effects just add them to the list of **** we do to the environment. If people think chemtrails can have a specific controllable effect on something as immense as the global climate they're naive. If the there is people in power banking on this being an effective tool, let them off. Let them piss their money into the wind rather than spend it blowing people up.

King Mob wrote: »

ShangriRA wrote: »

This stuff is not theoretical in the least. US government has confirmed that they have engaged in wide-scale atmospheric chemical testing since at least the 1950s. They blanketed the entire United States with the technology available to them nearly seventy years ago.

Google Operation_LAC.

From the wiki:
>During the first test and subsequently, much of the material dispersed ended up being carried by winds into Canada.However, as was the case in the first test, particles were detected up to 1,200 miles away from their drop point. A typical flight line covering 400 miles would release 5,000 pounds of zinc cadmium sulfide and in fiscal year 1958 around 100 hours were spent in flight for LAC.That flight time included four runs of various lengths, one of which was 1,400 miles

This operation has nothing in common with the claims about chemtrails.

Chemtrails are supposedly being sprayed every day, all around the world from jet liners flying at high altitude.

Operation LAC did nothing of the sort, was much smaller and yet information still got out about it.

A global conspiracy involving millions, costing billions and all for seemingly no reason is not hypothetical. It's silly.

I don't understand why people are trying to defend this notion as if it's plausible.

Project 112 is the declassified precursor of planet-wide dispersal of aerosol chemicals.

You're really going to try to no true scottsman a project that dumped aerosol chemicals on the entire continental United States and and another that dumped them across Eurasia? Those are 'not' what people who talk about chemtrails mean when they say chemtrails?

ShangriRA wrote: »

Project 112 is the declassified precursor of planet-wide dispersal of aerosol chemicals. <snip>

It is? Have a read of THIS.

kingtiger wrote: »

see you nutbags

http://www.irishexaminer.com/examviral/science-world/ozone-layer-is-gradually-healing-scientists-say-408077.html

chemtrails work

Is that article supposed to tell us something about contrails? I see nothing there that mentions your 'chem'trails. :rolleyes:

So Chem-trails are dispersed by regular airlines at high altitude and their trails remain visible in the sky...

Do you know how many hundreds of thousands of people over the years who would have had to have some hand or part in this ? From pilots, airline executives, aircraft mechanics, loaders all sorts of ground crews. Does anyone know here how many people it takes to get an aircraft from the ground into the air and everything in between and who interacts with aircraft daily ? I do personally and even if it is military aircraft or cargo or passenger it is still the same... If this was happening the lid would have been blown off it by someone(s) at some point in time. As a conspiracy theory it's so way off the grid it's unreal. Pure fantasy and anyone who gives it credence... well I'll leave it there.

Overheal wrote: »

Eh to play devils advocate against that basic debunkment, you could get away with it using a lot less involvement. All it would take is the correct formulation of jet fuel which in normal operation would exhaust the expectant chemicals. In which case even the engine designers might not even know, just the people formulating the jet fuel. However jet fuel is - one would assume - a reasonably fixed standard refined compound. But who knows: natural gas for vehicles I have found through the course of my employment has relatively few controls on what incidental chemicals can and cannot be in the fuel that inevitably reaches the vehicle. For instance, the natural gas is compressed into storage tanks on a truck, by a compressor which is lubricated with oil. There is no standard saying which oils can't be used in a compressor, yet some oils can cause havoc on some seals in the fuel rail system (particularly the regulator). To cut a long story short it's probable that not that many people would know a whole lot about the chemical makeup of the jet fuel that is being used in conventional jet engines.

Even still, a conspiracy like this would require tens of thousands of people.
Not all jet fuel is made by a few people in one place. And if they are adding the chemicals at some point during transportation, then it would still have to be happening millions of times all around the world every year.
And this is on top of the people needed to research and develop the chemical in question as well as the cooperation from every airplane designer and manufacturer to produce plane engines compatible with the chemical without issue to the plane or the compound.

And this is assuming that the compound can still do what it:s supposed to do after being blasted through a jet engine.

I don:t think theres any way to explain a vast, decades long, international conspiracy without involving thousands of people who could easily expose it.

One much better way to do it (assuming that it must be spread this way rather than a more efficient way), would be to do it in plain sight.
They could simply say that they are spraying this compound in the air to combat global warming or whatever. Or they could say that they are adding this chemical to jet fuel that reduces carbon.
If the conspiracy has the power to control entire aviation companies and thousands of people to do something nefarious to the populace, I dont see why they would need to hide it in the first place. If they did it my way there would be still no way for those who know the truth would be able to stop them either way.

Apart from anything else, spraying "chemicals" from 30,000 feet seems like an awfully inefficient method of diffusion; you would think that the nefarious government/corporations would just pour it straight into the reservoir - surely the mind-controlling fluoride would mask the taste(?)

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I know you are playing devil's advocate, but how would that explain contrails during WW2 (this photo is from 1944-45 after Battle of the Bulge)



That countries at war with each other, still had time to somehow agree to "spray" their populations with some unspecified chemical

Dogfighting?

Dohnjoe wrote: »

My point is that even the thinly stretched devil's advocate argument about jet fuel falls flat because it fails to address the fact that contrails have existed long before jet engines, in fact they've been around as long as aircraft have been able to enter cold air (the first reported observation was in 1915)

Since visible contrails are the only "evidence" for the entire theory, it follows that that whole part has also to be reconciled

I'd put it in the same conspiracy category as the flat-earth theory

No I mean that obviously exhaust has been around since forever. But the stoichiometry that we've seen going from steam locomotives to modern jet propulsion has changed completely. That's not even to say that an exhaust pollutant would have to be visible even. Turn on your natural gas stove and you will find it is completely colorless and when you burn it it's exhaust is practically invisible, but that doesn't mean there isn't a reaction occurring. Depending on the temperatures and pressures involved most substances contained in gas won't "fall out" normally. In a fuel system regulator for instance which steps down pressure from thousands of PSI to about a hundred, this results in an instantaneous drop in temperature of over 100F. And thats for a relatively small flow rate.

Of course, the issue with that posit, is any shred of proof

weisses wrote: »

Most of the above is not needed for this plan to be executed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory

The theory is that contrails are evidence that the government spraying us. That's the entire basis for the conspiracy. Since contrails have existed as mentioned since 1915 and commercial aviation became widespread since 50s onward.. in order to be "spraying" the world since WW1 then indeed it would be a conspiracy involving successive governments, pilots, ground crews, aircraft manufacturers, chemical manufacturers, scientists, etc all over the world, for decades

We have to take that theory as it stands (with no evidence). Any modification of that theory (with no evidence) is simply an effort to narrow the goalposts in order to fabricate a more "believable" or less absurd theory

Dohnjoe wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory

The theory is that contrails are evidence that the government spraying us. That's the entire basis for the conspiracy. Since contrails have existed as mentioned since 1915 and commercial aviation became widespread since 50s onward.. in order to be "spraying" the world since WW1 then indeed it would be a conspiracy involving successive governments, pilots, ground crews, aircraft manufacturers, chemical manufacturers, scientists, etc all over the world, for decades

We have to take that theory as it stands (with no evidence). Any modification of that theory (with no evidence) is simply an effort to narrow the goalposts in order to fabricate a more "believable" or less absurd theory

I disagree .. the chem trail theory is talking about certain contrails .. The ones lasting longer than usual

Further you dont need

1: Every airline and airforce in the world involved

2: By extension every government in the world involved

3: Every jet aircraft on the planet fitted with chemical sprayers involved

4: Every pilot and crew member ivolved

To create chemtrails