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28-05-2019, 21:02   #31
GM228
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Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
So over 50% of ICRs doing commuter work. Are GDA figures including Sligo/Rosslare services?
50%, not sure where you got that from?

12% of the ICR fleet is assigned to Commuter work (which includes the GCD services ).

Only 1 x 29000 set is assigned 1 x return to Rosslare daily and 2x29000 sets to the Sligo on a Friday only, they work Commuter services in between.
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28-05-2019, 21:11   #32
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50%, not sure where you got that from?

12% of the ICR fleet is assigned to Commuter work (which includes the GCD services ).

Only 1 x 29000 set is assigned 1 x return to Rosslare daily and 2x29000 sets to the Sligo on a Friday only, they work Commuter services in between.
You said 30 22s are in service on commuter routes on a daily basis. Im told there is typically 54-56 sets in some form of service per day (depending on the day) so that would make over 50% of ICRs on commuter services.

12% sounds more like it but could you clarify the 30 from previous post.

Edit assume 30 is coaches not trains?
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28-05-2019, 21:14   #33
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Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
You said 30 22s are in service on commuter routes on a daily basis. Im told there is typically 54-56 sets in some form of service per day (depending on the day) so that would make over 50% of ICRs on commuter services.

12% sounds more like it but could you clarify the 30 from previous post.

Edit assume 30 is coaches not trains?
The list is number of vehicles, not sets, there are 234 22000s.

Last edited by GM228; 28-05-2019 at 21:18.
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29-05-2019, 02:53   #34
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Originally Posted by L1011 View Post
Electric trains will be faster than diesel on frequently stopping services or lines with frequent speed limit changes; due to better acceleration and later braking

Which describes all the lines in scope; especially Maynooth.
Faster of the mark but more unreliable. There is an issue with new units in Scotland. The traction motors are cooked. Stop-start diagrams. AC motors and equipment.
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29-05-2019, 09:00   #35
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Faster of the mark but more unreliable. There is an issue with new units in Scotland. The traction motors are cooked. Stop-start diagrams. AC motors and equipment.
Experience over decades shows electric units to be vastly more reliable than diesel. Teething problems on one class mean nothing
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29-05-2019, 09:30   #36
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Faster of the mark but more unreliable. There is an issue with new units in Scotland. The traction motors are cooked. Stop-start diagrams. AC motors and equipment.
Electric units are vastly more reliable, those trains you are talking about are the first time that the design (AT-200) has been used in the UK so of course there is going to be more problems than most, especially when the product is new. See also, Bombardier and their Aventra product.

For an example the Golden Spanner results for modern trains in the UK based on Miles per Technical Incident (MTIN)

First generation new EMU
Class 350/2 – London Midland/King’s Heath depot/Porterbrook (164,481 MTIN)
(followed by different variants of the same train)

Second generation new EMU
Class 379 – Greater Anglia/Ilford depot/Macquarie European Rail (93,329 MTIN)

First generation new DMU
Class 185 – TransPennine Express/Ardwick depot/Eversholt (26,684 MTIN)
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29-05-2019, 09:45   #37
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That the 350 and 185 are the EMU and DMU of the *same design* should be pointed out here to compare the figures.
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30-05-2019, 04:44   #38
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Originally Posted by devnull View Post
Electric units are vastly more reliable, those trains you are talking about are the first time that the design (AT-200) has been used in the UK so of course there is going to be more problems than most, especially when the product is new. See also, Bombardier and their Aventra product.

For an example the Golden Spanner results for modern trains in the UK based on Miles per Technical Incident (MTIN)

First generation new EMU
Class 350/2 – London Midland/King’s Heath depot/Porterbrook (164,481 MTIN)
(followed by different variants of the same train)

Second generation new EMU
Class 379 – Greater Anglia/Ilford depot/Macquarie European Rail (93,329 MTIN)

First generation new DMU
Class 185 – TransPennine Express/Ardwick depot/Eversholt (26,684 MTIN)
I am not saying electric units are unreliable (BR 3rd rail Mk1 units did 400,000 miles+ between faults btw), but there are issues with units that use AC motors rather that DC.

The 350 & 379 units run long distances between stops at speed. The issue in Scotland is that on some routes around Glasgow, the units are constantly either underpower or using the re-gen braking at low speeds. The motors are self ventilated (like your bog standard electric tool) and there is insufficient airflow to cool the motors.
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30-05-2019, 07:02   #39
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The increase in carriage stock is great and all but with the volume of increase that this order is suggested would all of it be used Daily? Am I right in thinking only the ppt line can really handle any major degree of frequency increase and at at that only if they can be terminated at docklands?
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30-05-2019, 07:13   #40
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Going to be some monster batteries for anything other than really short runs.. Will these be self charging hybrids?

Is there a plan to electrify any of the IC lines?
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30-05-2019, 08:18   #41
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We're not going to be using AC so I'm not sure why it was ever thought to be relevant for this thread. The claim that the units would be less reliable was outright incorrect.
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30-05-2019, 08:49   #42
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Originally Posted by prinzeugen View Post
I am not saying electric units are unreliable (BR 3rd rail Mk1 units did 400,000 miles+ between faults btw), but there are issues with units that use AC motors rather that DC.
The Desiro 350 is running on AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prinzeugen View Post
The 350 & 379 units run long distances between stops at speed. The issue in Scotland is that on some routes around Glasgow, the units are constantly either underpower or using the re-gen braking at low speeds. The motors are self ventilated (like your bog standard electric tool) and there is insufficient airflow to cool the motors.
The Desiro 3xx EMU range is generally aimed at the commuter market with many stops on-route due to their strong acceleration when built. They do not run limited stop express services very often at all.

A typical 379 calling pattern from London Liverpool Street
Tottenham Hale, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Roydon, Harlow Town, Harlow Mill, Sawbridgeworth, Bishop's Stortford, Stansted Mountfitchet, Elsenham, Newport, Audley End, Great Chesterford, Whittlesford Parkway, Shelford, Cambridge

A typical 350 calling pattern from London Euston
Watford Junction, Hemel Hempstead, Berkhamsted, Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley, Milton Keynes Central, Wolverton, Northampton, Long Buckby, Rugby, Coventry, Canley, Tile Hill, Berkswell, Hampton-in-Arden, Birmingham International, Marston Green, Birmingham New Street.

A typical 360 calling pattern from London Liverpool Street
Stratford, Shenfield, Chelmsford, Hatfield Peverel, Witham, Kelvedon, Marks Tey, Colchester, Manningtree, Ipswich.
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30-05-2019, 09:07   #43
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Originally Posted by Thrashssacre View Post
The increase in carriage stock is great and all but with the volume of increase that this order is suggested would all of it be used Daily? Am I right in thinking only the ppt line can really handle any major degree of frequency increase and at at that only if they can be terminated at docklands?
This fleet order is just one part of the Dart Expansion, which will effectively double the passenger capacity in the Greater Dublin Area. There was a meeting on it recently, with some very interesting slides. In the short to medium term, they're planning on going from 26000 passengers during peak hour to 52000.

The planned reconfiguration of Glasnevin Junction would allow PPT to switch tracks easily.

https://twitter.com/transportdublin/...58079897694208
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30-05-2019, 11:03   #44
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Will these be self charging hybrids?
Oh please don't fall for Toyotas bull**** marketing!

A hybrid is a vehicle with a petrol or diesel engine and a very small battery that charges when you brake (regenerative breaking). They are still very much ICE vehicles.

These will seemingly have no diesel engine of any kind. Only electric motors powered either by battery or overhead wires.

And yes, they probably will have regenerative breaking, but the amount of power they would receive by that is tiny, they will get most of their power by charging from overhead cables or plugging them in at the station.
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30-05-2019, 12:22   #45
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Oh please don't fall for Toyotas bull**** marketing!

A hybrid is a vehicle with a petrol or diesel engine and a very small battery that charges when you brake (regenerative breaking). They are still very much ICE vehicles.

These will seemingly have no diesel engine of any kind. Only electric motors powered either by battery or overhead wires.

And yes, they probably will have regenerative breaking, but the amount of power they would receive by that is tiny, they will get most of their power by charging from overhead cables or plugging them in at the station.
would that mean that lines could be part electrified for charging?
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