Dead bodies left on trolleys in corridors.

ChikiChiki · 24-04-2019 11:44am

Amirani wrote: »

I didn't defend anything. I said your proposal of annual screening of the entire population is one of the most stupid suggestions I've heard.

Our health system is awful in many ways. Incredibly, your best suggestion would actually make it much worse. Here, have a read of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overscreening

Why so passive aggressive? Honestly. We all want to make things better.

Taiwan is an example of a country with a preventative system which seems to be working quite well.

Amirani · 24-04-2019 11:45am

kona wrote: »

You must be some form of hse management. Shoot down suggestions, patronise people yet actually provide **** all to the subject at hand.

So, if I made a proposal that we should replace radiotherapy and chemotherapy with herbal remedies for cancer patients you wouldn't "shoot down" that suggestion? Overscreening is no different to this, just a nonsense suggestion with no evidence base that's not going to do anything to help people.

Floppybits · 24-04-2019 11:47am

kona wrote: »

Too busy working to pay for this mess unfortunatley. Might do it when i retire for a pension.

Or if you were a teacher. Teachers seem to have the time to put themselves up for election. The rest of us are too busy trying to keep the wolf from the door, paying taxes and not getting our monies worth.

Plumbthedepths · 24-04-2019 11:50am

Someone in the hospital ok'ed this, Harris is now aware. His job now is to deal with the individual/individuals responsible.How this is not an actionable case of misconduct seems bizarre. People even in death are entitled to some dignity.

Amirani · 24-04-2019 11:51am

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Why so passive aggressive? Honestly. We all want to make things better.

Taiwan is an example of a country with a preventative system which seems to be working quite well.

Apologies if I came across as aggressive. I'm not sure why you'd accuse me of "defending" the system when I criticise your suggestion though.

I agree that maximising our use of preventative medicine is the best approach for us to take. This is a cornerstone of the Slaintecare proposals, and will form a large part of the expansion of primary and community based care. However, overscreening is a very real problem, and this should not be equated to preventative care.

MrMusician18 · 24-04-2019 11:51am

theguzman wrote: »

Most likley it would run better as the frontline staff would make decisions based on their own experiences and knowledge. Thousands of clerical and managerial staff must be fired out of the HSE and Public Sector. I honestly have more time for a criminal heroin dole drawing junkie scumbag than a public sector administrator, the public sector is a dumping ground for the failed careers of useless people. The entire HSE and Public Sector exists as a glorified Social Employment scheme for the failed sons and daughters of political crony hacks, these people would not last one week in the private sector. Fire them all and pay them the dole, better than giving them €800+ per week for doing absolutely sweet damn all.

Unlikely. When was the last time you've seen the "front line"? They're every bit as useless as those that manage them.

Guy:Incognito · 24-04-2019 11:52am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

FG supporters working hard I see. ;-)

Yeah cos anything other than "sack the government" is obviously fg supporters.

You can have a ge every 6 months if you want, the same people will still be working in the hse.

Guy:Incognito · 24-04-2019 11:53am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Someone in the hospital ok'ed this, Harris is now aware. His job now is to deal with the individual/individuals responsible.How this is not an actionable case of misconduct seems bizarre. People even in death are entitled to some dignity.

The article says a new mortuary building has been approved.

Fr_Dougal · 24-04-2019 11:54am

kona wrote: »

You must be some form of hse management. Shoot down suggestions, patronise people yet actually provide **** all to the subject at hand.

You’re the one who is calling people who disagree with you ‘clowns’.

Amirani · 24-04-2019 11:56am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Unlikely. When was the last time you've seen the "front line"? They're every bit as useless as those that manage them.

All our doctors and nurses are useless? Why don't you tell them that next time you or one of your family is receiving treatment.

24-04-2019 12:01pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Perhaps this is a bit Kim Jong Un of me to suggest, but maybe Health Ministers should be visiting HSE facilities unannounced periodically and catching management on the hop.

This isn't an endorsement of Putin, but his regular filleting of hapless bureaucrats around provincial Russia make for entertaining viewing:

On an aside, Putin did considerably improve air safety in Russia, by these types of tactics. It has meant a lot of jobless pilots, with some of those going to work in poorer African countries.

Plumbthedepths · 24-04-2019 12:03pm

Guy:Incognito wrote:

The article says a new mortuary building has been approved.

This makes the present situation ok so? That's some grasping there. When Frank visited Ireland mobile morgues were set up in case of being needed with the expectation of the demographics making their way to see him. There is zero excuse for what has happened and the defence of same is pathetic tbh.

Amirani · 24-04-2019 12:16pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

This makes the present situation ok so? That's some grasping there. When Frank visited Ireland mobile morgues were set up in case of being needed with the expectation of the demographics making their way to see him. There is zero excuse for what has happened and the defence of same is pathetic tbh.

Why do people assume that any sort of statement of fact is a "defence".

Guy:Incognito didn't defend anything in his post, merely added a point of information.

smurgen · 24-04-2019 12:21pm

Amirani wrote: »

Apologies if I came across as aggressive. I'm not sure why you'd accuse me of "defending" the system when I criticise your suggestion though.

I agree that maximising our use of preventative medicine is the best approach for us to take. This is a cornerstone of the Slaintecare proposals, and will form a large part of the expansion of primary and community based care. However, overscreening is a very real problem, and this should not be equated to preventative care.

We're talking about goss mismanagement of dead bodies here,why are you keen to go off on tangents? In the U.S I've heard of doctors being struck off for the mismanagement of cadavers.
Also if you're hse staff how about you get off boards and do your job?

kona · 24-04-2019 12:25pm

Amirani wrote: »

So, if I made a proposal that we should replace radiotherapy and chemotherapy with herbal remedies for cancer patients you wouldn't "shoot down" that suggestion? Overscreening is no different to this, just a nonsense suggestion with no evidence base that's not going to do anything to help people.

Whats wrong with screening people? You dont have to do it every year for 4 million people. You dont have to give em a full class 1 medical. You could even do it by post if somebody designed a appropriate kit.

But this is neither here nor there. This is about a case of disgusting incompetence.

Nekarsulm · 24-04-2019 12:27pm

I text in to the Pat Kenny today, to suggest they hire a refrigerated container as temporary storage.
The HSE guy dismissed it for "Hygiene reasons".
Couldn't be much worse than having cadavers dripping in a corridor, I'd have thought.
I got the impression he was content to allow the status quo continue as a usefull means of forcing more funds from Govt.

kona · 24-04-2019 12:27pm

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You’re the one who is calling people who disagree with you ‘clowns’.

Yes i would call people who think that leaving rotting corpses around a hospital on trollies is ok, clowns.

Infact id call them a hell of a lot worse.

Amirani · 24-04-2019 12:29pm

smurgen wrote: »

We're talking about goss mismanagement of dead bodies here,why are you keen to go off on tangents? In the U.S I've heard of doctors being struck off for the mismanagement of cadavers.
Also if you're hse staff how about you get off boards and do your job?

I don't work for the HSE, I'm not sure why you'd just assume that.

Amirani · 24-04-2019 12:30pm

kona wrote: »

Yes i would call people who think that leaving rotting corpses around a hospital on trollies is ok, clowns.

Who was it that said that?

Twenty Grand · 24-04-2019 12:37pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

irish public: hey government, fix the health service

irish gov: ok but we'll have to take on the unions and cut a load of managers and admins

irish public: the nurses are on strike - hey government, give them what they want!

repeat.

Politicians every 4 years: the previous government got it wrong! I'm going to change everything to put it right! Vote for me!!!

Grad healthcare workers: hmm another HSE scandal, Australia for a few years looks tempting...

mad muffin · 24-04-2019 12:39pm

It’s okay. Varadkar is dining with Bono and George Clooney.

McDermotX · 24-04-2019 12:39pm

Fantastic.
Genuinely third-world level.

Biggest mistake we could make here is to funnel more money into the health service. Rip it up.

MrMusician18 · 24-04-2019 12:39pm

Amirani wrote: »

All our doctors and nurses are useless? Why don't you tell them that next time you or one of your family is receiving treatment.

I never said all. And yeah I have told them how bad they were when I was abandoned in a corner in A&E when I needed urgent treatment.

The rot is the whole way through the health service, including the "virtuous" frontline.

mad muffin · 24-04-2019 12:41pm

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You can be pretty sure that neither knew what was going on, they don’t inspect these hospitals personally.

It’s 100% down to hospital management and the HSE.

That’s their standard answer for everything. We know nothing. I’m going to start calling them Jon Snow.

Lillyfae · 24-04-2019 2:24pm

mad muffin wrote: »

That’s their standard answer for everything. We know nothing. I’m going to start calling them Jon Snow.

Actually John Snow would have been a great person to call in

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Snow

24-04-2019 2:43pm

How heartbreaking for the families of the deceased to know their loved ones were denied the dignity of privacy in death.

Heartbreaking for the pathologists involved who are moved to make this public, it must be hard to be denied the means to do your work to an appropriate standard knowing it adversely impacts the families involved. Families I'm sure they're called on to explain the inexplicable to. I don't envy them.

elperello · 24-04-2019 3:01pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I text in to the Pat Kenny today, to suggest they hire a refrigerated container as temporary storage.
The HSE guy dismissed it for "Hygiene reasons".
Couldn't be much worse than having cadavers dripping in a corridor, I'd have thought.
I got the impression he was content to allow the status quo continue as a usefull means of forcing more funds from Govt.

You have hit the nail on the head.
An immediate response is necessary.
We have this piece of kit in stock already.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/emergency-services-invest-125k-in-mobile-morgue-system-880938.html

omega man · 24-04-2019 3:08pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

irish public: hey government, fix the health service

irish gov: ok but we'll have to take on the unions and cut a load of managers and admins

irish public: the nurses are on strike - hey government, give them what they want!

repeat.

Exactly. This isn’t a financing matter but a lack of effective senior management. Unfortunately it won’t be resolved as long as the unions stand in the way of significant reform.

freshpopcorn · 24-04-2019 3:12pm

I could never follow the love for Leo.
He had his little following and then he came out in 2015 and ever since then he seems to be loved by many more.
I know the HSE is going to take years to fix but I don't think Leo and Simon will do much to get the ball rolling.

ChikiChiki · 24-04-2019 3:21pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I could never follow the love for Leo and wasn't really liked by a lot.
He had his little following and then he came out in 2015 and ever since then he seems to be loved by many more.
I know the HSE is going to take years to fix but I don't think Leo and Simon will do much to get the ball rolling.

They are not the right people for the job. I did have hope at one stage but they obviousy lack the skillset to implement the reforms it needs. Lack of accountability, incompetence and poor performance has become a rot and trickles down from the Minister of Health to the HSE span of control.

I see another story today about a young guy who resented himself as suicidal and discharged as not meeting the criteria for being subject to an emergency admission.

Its a story as equally disgusting. The problems in the HSE are far and wide.

jimmycrackcorm · 24-04-2019 3:23pm

I don't think you'd get this situation happening in the private hospitals. But then people would get fired...

Nekarsulm · 24-04-2019 3:43pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't think you'd get this situation happening in the private hospitals. But then people would get fired...

Probably less people dying in private hospitals, and those that do probably aren't left more than 2 or 3 days until the funeral takes place.

theguzman · 24-04-2019 6:09pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I could never follow the love for Leo.
He had his little following and then he came out in 2015 and ever since then he seems to be loved by many more.
I know the HSE is going to take years to fix but I don't think Leo and Simon will do much to get the ball rolling.

Because you dare not question this half Irish half Indian Homosexual otherwise you are a typical racist homophic bigot for not thinking he is Ireland's answer to Barack Obama.

KilOit · 24-04-2019 6:33pm

Whole thread filled with comments from people who have absolutely no clue how a hospital works and want to treat it like a business, morons :rolleyes:

orourkeda1977 · 24-04-2019 6:44pm

If this happened is a zoo, a kennel or a stable then world war three would have broken out by now.

This has been affecting peoples lives for decades and needs to be stopped

Rows Grower · 24-04-2019 6:46pm

If this was reported to be happening in a less well off country you can be sure the Irish people would be the first to send financial help.

How in the name of God it is happening in Ireland in this day and age is beyond me.

The fu*king country is booming, we were at 16% unemployment at the start of 2012, we're now at 5.4% after dropping steadily for 6 years.

What the f*uck are the government doing with our income tax besides pouring it into a hole in the middle of Dublin to construct the world's most expensive and badly located hospital?

I just googled and they're sending over a record 800 million Euro a year to overseas aid this year, and have vouched to increase it by 115 million Euro a year for the next 10 years.

These lads and lassies would want a good fuc*king slap of reality fairly sharply.

orourkeda1977 · 24-04-2019 6:46pm

KilOit wrote: »

Whole thread filled with comments from people who have absolutely no clue how a hospital works and want to treat it like a business, morons :rolleyes:

OK so tell us morons how it is that dead people end up on trolleys in an Irish hospital these days.

Amirani · 24-04-2019 6:50pm

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

OK so tell us morons how it is that dead people end up on trolleys in an Irish hospital these days.

By dying...

The issue isn't that they're dead, or that they're on trolleys, the issue is the terrible mortuary in Waterford that has resulted in bodies being left in poorly refrigerated conditions. This is what has been criticised in the letter from the consultants.

McMurphy · 24-04-2019 6:51pm

KilOit wrote: »

Whole thread filled with comments from people who have absolutely no clue how a hospital works and want to treat it like a business, morons :rolleyes:

Admittedly I have no insider information on how a hospital "works" nor do I claim to be an expert on same, but I'm pretty certain how it's not supposed to work.

Coffins having to be kept closed due to body's decomposition from deaths that occured in a hospital in a supposedly first world country surely must not be the norm, please tell me I know that much about them?

Rows Grower · 24-04-2019 6:58pm

KilOit wrote: »

Whole thread filled with comments from people who have absolutely no clue how a hospital works and want to treat it like a business, morons :rolleyes:

I have an idea how one particular hospital works having visited it recently with an elderly friend.

We entered the new facility in Kenmare, no receptionist was working at the new reception. There was a photocopied piece of A4 that directed us where to sit and wait.

After a short time the surgeon came out of his office and collected any letters of appointment he had not already collected.

I spoke to him afterwards and asked about the lack of receptionist and secretary, he told me it's been that way for years. He does the whole lot on his own.

I'm not even making this up, when we went back a couple of weeks later for the surgical procedure it was the exact same situation. He operated on my friend and when leaving him out collected the other appointment letters.

I spoke to him again afterwards when dropping back a gift and he told me there was a brand new hospital ward upstairs with state of the art equipment none of which had been used because they had no staff.

Nekarsulm · 24-04-2019 6:59pm

It'd be interesting yo find out whose bodies are blocking up the system.
People the victim of crime, who cannot be released for burial yet?
People without known relatives to pay for the funeral or at least organise it?

Its been a mild winter, not much talk about vomiting bugs or superbugs to markedly increase the death rate amongst the old and infirm, so how come Waterford has ran out of space now?

omega man · 24-04-2019 7:01pm

KilOit wrote: »

Whole thread filled with comments from people who have absolutely no clue how a hospital works and want to treat it like a business, morons :rolleyes:

It should be run like any well run large complex organisation, as in with a functioning management system with responsible managers and accountable senior management.

What is your point exactly? Just because it’s not a profit making business doesn’t mean it can’t be managed efficiently like one.

Rows Grower · 24-04-2019 7:01pm

Amirani wrote: »

By dying...

The issue isn't that they're dead, or that they're on trolleys, the issue is the terrible mortuary in Waterford that has resulted in bodies being left in poorly refrigerated conditions. This is what has been criticised in the letter from the consultants.

This isn't a thread for your smart arsed comments, have a bit of respect.

orourkeda1977 · 24-04-2019 7:04pm

Amirani wrote: »

By dying...

The issue isn't that they're dead, or that they're on trolleys, the issue is the terrible mortuary in Waterford that has resulted in bodies being left in poorly refrigerated conditions. This is what has been criticised in the letter from the consultants.

No sh1t doctor.

KilOit · 24-04-2019 7:06pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Admittedly I have no insider information on how a hospital "works" nor do I claim to be an expert on same, but I'm pretty certain how it's not supposed to work.

Coffins having to be kept closed due to body's decomposition from deaths that occured in a hospital in a supposedly first world country surely must not be the norm, please tell me I know that much about them?

My beef is not with the body being left out but with the comments about privatization, getting rid of unions, firing all the admins and management and then linking fecking putin in the thread like he's some hero. He's a multi billionaire who's more corrupt than all our politicians put together.

Are people really that thick that they think privatization of our health service will benefit the nation as a whole? you think 80 year old Mary down the road with bad hips and dementia will get good treatment when she hasn't 2 cents to rub together
Go to America and report back how good their level of care is when cash is added into the equation when it comes to health

Franz Von Peppercorn · 24-04-2019 7:09pm

KilOit wrote: »

Whole thread filled with comments from people who have absolutely no clue how a hospital works and want to treat it like a business, morons :rolleyes:

To be fair it doesn’t have to be run like a business to work better than this.

Dead people on trolleys (who died on trolleys). What a terrible way to end a life.

KilOit · 24-04-2019 7:17pm

omega man wrote: »

It should be run like any well run large complex organistion, as in with a functioning management system with responsible managers and accountable senior management.

What is your point exactly? Just because it’s not a profit making business doesn’t mean it can’t be managed efficiently like one.

Large complex organisation like Google or Amazon? they grow over time with more income to feed it. the health service is infinite in size, the nation takes no responsibility in their health, people eat too much, drink too much, smoke too much, no exercise, the health service can't keep up.

Drugs and advances in treatment extend life but doesn't necessarily improve the quality of it so with a aging and poor health nation they end up on long waiting lists. Hospitals have gotten so much busier in the past 10 years it's so hard to keep up

extra gravy · 24-04-2019 7:19pm

Leaving aside whoever is to blame for this, on a human level it's genuinely horrific and one of the worst things I've read in while. I'm not easily shocked but this did shock me and it's been on my mind all day. It's a new low for this country and that's saying something considering all the sh1t that's gone on previously.

McMurphy · 24-04-2019 7:20pm

KilOit wrote: »

My beef is not with the body being left out but with the comments about privatization, getting rid of unions, firing all the admins and management and then linking fecking putin in the thread like he's some hero. He's a multi billionaire who's more corrupt than all our politicians put together.

Are people really that thick that they think privatization of our health service will benefit the nation as a whole? you think 80 year old Mary down the road with bad hips and dementia will get good treatment when she hasn't 2 cents to rub together
Go to America and report back how good their level of care is when cash is added into the equation when it comes to health

I'd be the first person to oppose privatisation of our health services, I would absolutely oppose that 110%.

I'm merely commenting that people are absolutely correct to point out that this shouldn't be happening in a supposedly first world country, with an apparently booming economy and near full employment, and that someone needs to be held accountable.

Doctors room ghost · 24-04-2019 7:25pm

Pissartist wrote: »

The problem is there's too much management, and most are unable to do their jobs, or are job share who couldn't really care.

And the jobs they are employed in shouldn’t even exist. The hse is a fcukin jokeshop riddled with management and office staff who tip away on Facebook most of the day and spend the rest of the time planning how to use up their annual leave and how many sick days they are entitled to.
Front line staff in the role of doctors nurses porters care assistants etc is what’s needed and not makey uppey bullsh1t jobs.
God help all the people who suffer neglect in a failing health system nowadays.elderly people who worked hard their whole lives and they ending their days on a fcukin trolley in a corridor with passers by gawping at them.
There’s animals in veterinary clinics treated with better dignity and respect.

Dead bodies left on trolleys in corridors.

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