Compensation Culture to a new level

She's a silly fcuking bastard.

I have no problem with genuine personal injury claims but fcuk this fcuking stupid thunder cnut.

20k for hitting her knee off a table leg while she was under her own control.

I'd be a fcuking millionaire if I sued everytime I had an owie that was my fault.

What a fcuking d1ckhead! This is why insurance policies are high.

She needs a fcuking reality check.

Oh FFS. I thought the woman experienced hill walker who got a Boo Boo cause she wasn't watching where she was going was bad but these claims get worse by the day (which seems to be the frequency we are hearing about such ridiculous claims these days). Plaintiff and solicitor ought to be ashamed. Complete mockery of the justice system.

She looks really upset outside the court. You can tell she's still shaken up by the whole affair and would rather have her health back than the money.

http://cdn-03.independent.ie/incoming/article35580265.ece/6bb17/BINARY/annette003.jpg

I've worked in insurance for a number of years and have posted extensively about it across a few forums and did an AMA about it.

I have been called an insurance industry apologist by a number of people.

I have been called a liar by a number of people when I have posted about the claims culture in Ireland and how that is the primary driver of increased insurance premiums.

It is with a certain level of smugness that stuff like this vindicates what I have been saying for the last couple of years.

The whole thing is rotten, from the thieves that make the fraudulent claims (thats what they are) to the parasitic solicitors that represent them (not all of them are leeches but when what they get paid is directly effected by what their client are awarded then there is little reason to think that many of them have any morals) to the incompetent judges making the awards, its little wonder that premiums have rocketed.

I do however feel that things are somewhat turning a corner.

There have been a few high profile claims thrown out recently, the young fella that cycled into the jeep and a couple of others where the judge ruled against the claimant because there was no way that the low impact of the collision could have caused the injuries they were saying they had. Its a start but there is still a huge way to go.

To give you a real world example. A case came across my desk recently where our policy holder bumped into the back of a third party. They were stopped in traffic so clearly there couldn't be much of an impact and the total repair costs for both cars was around €450 for a bit of buffing. The third party immediately began claiming neck pain, sent in his solicitors letter etc. Its as plain as the nose on my face that there are no injuries and its a complete try on.

The claims dept know the claimant is lying however whiplash claims are notoriously difficult to defend against so they offered a settlement of €7500 - €10,000 plus costs to make him go away. His solicitor rejected the offer outright and told the claims department that the minimum they will consider is €20,000 plus costs. Our claims department rightly told him to piss off so now its being investigated.

People often lament insurers settling "on the steps" rather than defending the claim but there is good reasons for it. To date, we have spent over €5000 between assessors fees, medical assessor fees and investigator fees. Thats without going to court. So you see its often the cheapest option to give the try on a few quid to go away rather than try and defend in full and potentially end up in the high court paying multiples of what they could spend by settling quickly.

I read through the case file and without giving details I am confident that when this goes to court the case will be thrown out but when its in the hands of a judge you never can tell.

Funnily people were giving jambon man grief for claiming yesterday. Tbh he was right, now the award of €20k was ridiculous however he was slandered and he deserved reparation for that, not near what he got but he would be entitled to something.

What needs to happen sooner rather than later is for caps to be introduced.

The very top of the list should be a cap on legal fees.

The injuries board was set up specifically, specifically to try and cut out the legal system from insurance claims due to the length of time cases were taking to be heard and the costs associated yet around 90% of injuries board cases are involving people represented by solicitors.

I guarantee that if the legal fees available for whiplash / soft tissue fees were capped at €500 per case we would see a massive drop in both the number of cases and the number of cases that make it to courts.

Solicitors fees are in the region of 20% to 30% of the settlement amount so for the €20k claim in the OP their representative likely got €5000 to €6000 for it, talk about money for old rope!

Unproveable injuries such as the one in the OP should be capped at a max of €5000.

There should be penalties, actual enforceable penalties for those that are found to be making false claims.

Minimum fines of €1000 to €5000 should be given to those that deliberately try and defraud an insurer.

I'd love to see a system whereby people that report fraudsters get rewarded. Say 20% off their premium if the claim being made is found to fraudulent.

Aside from the last thing these are relatively simple measures to implement and I have no doubt that they would save millions each year.

Ultimately though the claims environment rests with the public, there is little accountability anymore and we live in a world where recklessness, stupidity and out right lying reaps massive rewards.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, the potential of receiving a nice fat compo cheque turns otherwise stand up people into absolute bastards.

Rod Munch wrote: »

The claims dept know the claimant is lying however whiplash claims are notoriously difficult to defend against so they offered a settlement of €7500 - €10,000 plus costs to make him go away. His solicitor rejected the offer outright and told the claims department that the minimum they will consider is €20,000 plus costs. Our claims department rightly told him to piss off so now its being investigated.

I'd be interested to know what the cost point is that the insurers decide to simply follow the claimant to observe the extent of their supposed incapacity. If 10k is the difference here is that enough to send out an observer for a few days? I'd take great satisfaction in filming someone swinging their kids around while suffering fake whiplash.

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

You simply can't make that determination. If you want to pursue doctors who give spurious diagnoses I'm all for it, but you can't make a decision on a case based on what seems right to you.



Nice try at dodging it, but the issue would be we'd see that while legal fees might be a driving factor there are other factors at play. This is why the insurance industry is more than happy to play into the mindless hype. It looks like ye will be getting away with it too, as it's going to be years before they are forced to show what is making up their premiums.



I'll certainly concede you're giving it some balance there.

Edit: You can safely insert 'insurance industry' for 'you' in many cases above, it wasn't meant to sound personal, except where it was! :pac:

People seem to think that just because I sometimes defend the industry that I think they are blameless for the mess we are now in but that's not the case. I have been and will continue to be critical of what I see as being the poor points but I will also 100% refute stuff that I know to be untrue. The problem is that a lot of what I know is anecdotal so its very easy for people to poo poo it. I think though that this thread, and a lot of the threads in the insurance forum show that people are now more in tune and that its not simply a case of the big bad insurance industry hauling the masses over the coals for shyts and giggles.

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I'd be interested to know what the cost point is that the insurers decide to simply follow the claimant to observe the extent of their supposed incapacity. If 10k is the difference here is that enough to send out an observer for a few days? I'd take great satisfaction in filming someone swinging their kids around while suffering fake whiplash.

I'm not in the claims side of the business but I'd say it depends on the overall potential payout.

For example, if the average pay out through the court system for a particular class of injury is €25k then it would be worth defending if they suspect / know the claim is bogey.

If the average payout is €10k to €15k then going to through the whole rigmarole of hiring private investigators probably isn't worth it.