Fodder Crisis

paddysdream · 08-12-2017 12:51pm #1

Apologies if there is a thread on this but after a quick looksee can't see one.
Surprised at that as from reading on here it seems many if not the majority are farming in DA areas.The papers are full of it and it seems to be a topic of conversation even down here in the sunny South East.

Down here no shortage of feed but a serious lack of straw moving.Whether people are waiting for price rises or its not there is hard to know.A lot of straw was lost on the ground and also a good bit was baled after turning etc and would be of dubious quality at best.
Bales of hay are ranging 23 to 30 euro,4x4 straw 20/25 euro,silage somewhat similar and 8x4x3 good straw hitting 60/65 a bale.All those ex yard.Add in transport of maybe 100/150 miles each way and you have rather expensive inputs.
So are things as bad as everyone says or is it just a small proportion of farmers in trouble ie is this going to be a repeat of 2012 or will a reasonable Spring avert the crisis?
Lots of talk/meetings it seems but is anything actually happening?

wrangler · 08-12-2017 1:03pm

paddysdream wrote: »

Apologies if there is a thread on this but after a quick looksee can't see one.
Surprised at that as from reading on here it seems many if not the majority are farming in DA areas.The papers are full of it and it seems to be a topic of conversation even down here in the sunny South East.

Down here no shortage of feed but a serious lack of straw moving.Whether people are waiting for price rises or its not there is hard to know.A lot of straw was lost on the ground and also a good bit was baled after turning etc and would be of dubious quality at best.
Bales of hay are ranging 23 to 30 euro,4x4 straw 20/25 euro,silage somewhat similar and 8x4x3 good straw hitting 60/65 a bale.All those ex yard.Add in transport of maybe 100/150 miles each way and you have rather expensive inputs.
So are things as bad as everyone says or is it just a small proportion of farmers in trouble ie is this going to be a repeat of 2012 or will a reasonable Spring avert the crisis?
Lots of talk/meetings it seems but is anything actually happening?

I'd be surprised if, coming so soon after 2013, that farmers haven't taken steps already not to get caught out,
Going into the winter knowing that you haven't enough feed to get to mid april and doing nothing is going to end bad.

20silkcut · 08-12-2017 1:31pm

I know of a farmer with 200 bales of silage and 2 cows and 2 weanlings. I know of another with 90 bales of hay and one horse.

While there may be lads short individually in certain parts I think collectively there is enough fodder in the country which is probably what Michael creed was alluding to. I don’t see us importing stuff from France or England just yet.

Dakota Dan · 08-12-2017 1:34pm

wrangler wrote: »

I'd be surprised if, coming so soon after 2013, that farmers haven't taken steps already not to get caught out,
Going into the winter knowing that you haven't enough feed to get to mid april and doing nothing is going to end bad.

True but for a lot of farmers up the country winter started in August- September. If I were farming land like that I'd shut the gate and walk away not worth the misery in a bad year.

fergus1001 · 08-12-2017 1:42pm

Fodder beet plentyfull around me if anyone is stuck

Dakota Dan · 08-12-2017 1:52pm

fergus1001 wrote: »

Fodder beet plentyfull around me if anyone is stuck

Sure would beet lucky bags any day.

anthony500_1 · 08-12-2017 2:06pm

See a man on donedeal advertising straw imported from England, in his add he sates he is not out to make a killing just a small make up on his costs........ No price of coarse I'd say he is banking on a shortage across the country

Dakota Dan · 09-12-2017 12:41pm

anthony500_1 wrote: »

See a man on donedeal advertising straw imported from England, in his add he sates he is not out to make a killing just a small make up on his costs........ No price of coarse I'd say he is banking on a shortage across the country

Yeah, I'd say he's bringing straw over from the uk just for the fun of it.

_Brian · 09-12-2017 1:12pm

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Yeah, I'd say he's bringing straw over from the uk just for the fun of it.

Sort of public service thing ??

Bass Reeves · 09-12-2017 1:32pm

I think that lads that think there is a killing to be made on fodder this year may be on for a shock. Shortages are localised and transportation will make straights and ration more economical. It is also early I the winter so lads if they are tuned in can take remedial action.

Lots of last year's silage around still some of which is still good quality. However silage is expensive to transport. Lots of hay sitting in sheds for 2 years and over as well.

If we get an early spring prices for hay and silage will collapse in February and March. Minimum roughage/fibre and ration may be the way to go if there is a poor spring

visatorro · 09-12-2017 2:32pm

Dunno there seems to be alot of bales being moved around here. 30 dropped into the yard here for middling stuff. Dry but stemmy. Bought a few bales because I started feeding heifers in September. I know I could buy meal but didn't want stock getting over fat. No point looking for stuff around paddies day.

charolais0153 · 09-12-2017 5:11pm

All fine around here but up in gurteen and menlough there is a serious lack of fodder

greenfield21 · 10-12-2017 12:15pm

Buying meal here to get a bit more out of the silage, paying 220€ t for it collected. Its 13% p, seems like I'm getting ripped of?

White Clover · 10-12-2017 12:17pm

greenfield21 wrote: »

Buying meal here to get a bit more out of the silage, paying 220€ t for it collected. Its 13% p, seems like I'm getting ripped of?

What is the make up of the meal

Who2 · 10-12-2017 1:07pm

I reckon there's still a lot of people that haven't realized they will be short. I'm half way through my pit and half way through the bales, tanks will be full well before open date for spreading and I'm using more meal than ever. I'm going to put out a batch of light heifers in January and the same goes for the spring calves as they calve and I'll just get out I reckon. Twenty minutes down the road from me and they are down to the last batches of feeding already.

patsy_mccabe · 10-12-2017 1:43pm

I've enough till March 20 by my reckoning. Wilted silage well last year so bales are lasting longer than I expected. I'm also feeding meal to anything still growing or milking. Have loads of grass too that didn't get grazed due to the wet weather. A fine spring and I'll be grand. A wet one and I might be in trouble.

Willfarman · 10-12-2017 1:49pm

A wilted Mchale bale has a lot of grass in it.

freedominacup · 10-12-2017 1:54pm

Willfarman wrote: »

A wilted Mchale bale has a lot of grass in it.

From 750kg for dry wilted stemmy poor quality ones we bought, to 850kg for our own third cut that got a bit of a wilt, to 950-1000kg for paddock bales that were baled fairly quickly after mowing. Fusion 3 baler.

GrasstoMilk · 10-12-2017 1:59pm

freedominacup wrote: »

From 750kg for dry wilted stemmy poor quality ones we bought, to 850kg for our own third cut that got a bit of a wilt, to 950-1000kg for paddock bales that were baled fairly quickly after mowing. Fusion 3 baler.

Definitely would need a loader for litfting them. Tractor loader wouldn't last long at them

freedominacup · 10-12-2017 2:08pm

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Definitely would need a loader for litfting them. Tractor loader wouldn't last long at them

Bil uses 1400-1500 bales per year baled by the same contractor. He has one if those big 4cyl masseys around 115hp with a loader for the job. Keeps them changed regularly enough though. Every 5 yrs or so. Most of his would be in the fairly well wilted category though. Somewhere between 200 and 250kg dm in the fusions regardless of the quality or dm of the material.

freedominacup · 10-12-2017 2:16pm

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Definitely would need a loader for litfting them. Tractor loader wouldn't last long at them

Would there really be that much difference between a fusion and any other type of baler.

GrasstoMilk · 10-12-2017 2:58pm

freedominacup wrote: »

Would there really be that much difference between a fusion and any other type of baler.

Our krone pops out 700/750 kg bales. But she's 16 years old. 1t is as much as our Massey can handle. Wouldn't be mad about having that on the front of her every day

Bass Reeves · 10-12-2017 6:16pm

Willfarman wrote: »

A wilted Mchale bale has a lot of grass in it.

Wilting silage in general is a great job. I know that Teagasc and most advice is contrary tp too much of a wilt but I find that cattle do well on wilted silage even though it may not test well. My second cut is 40%DM and my first cut is about 33%DM. As well I have some haylage type Hybrid that is 50%+. P was good on it all 14% on first cut but DMD was 69 it was cut first week in June.

2nd cut was down at 66DMD but cattle stores are doing ok on it. Two bales of 2nd cut is feeding 16 450ish kg store for two days. I cost silage at 23/bale to make so with minerals and a bit of lime they are costing. It is costing 78.5 cent/day in feed costs I knpow it is expensive but what can you do. When they go onto 1st cut it will cost about 90c/day, I will be broke.

White Clover · 10-12-2017 7:43pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Wilting silage in general is a great job. I know that Teagasc and most advice is contrary tp too much of a wilt but I find that cattle do well on wilted silage even though it may not test well. My second cut is 40%DM and my first cut is about 33%DM. As well I have some haylage type Hybrid that is 50%+. P was good on it all 14% on first cut but DMD was 69 it was cut first week in June.

2nd cut was down at 66DMD but cattle stores are doing ok on it. Two bales of 2nd cut is feeding 16 450ish kg store for two days. I cost silage at 23/bale to make so with minerals and a bit of lime they are costing. It is costing 78.5 cent/day in feed costs I knpow it is expensive but what can you do. When they go onto 1st cut it will cost about 90c/day, I will be broke.

Bass, that's a bale/day? 23/day +minerals and lime or 1.5ish/hd/day?

Muckit · 10-12-2017 8:06pm

If lads had their costings done up as good as Bass, they would see that having to buy bales at 25 euro isnt he end of the world.

Knowing your cost of production is lesson 1 in any business.

Dunedin · 10-12-2017 8:59pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I cost silage at 23/bale to make so with minerals and a bit of lime they are costing.

Would you mind putting up the breakdown of the €23 per bale

newholland mad · 10-12-2017 11:40pm

anthony500_1 wrote: »

See a man on donedeal advertising straw imported from England, in his add he sates he is not out to make a killing just a small make up on his costs........ No price of coarse I'd say he is banking on a shortage across the country

Even in the surplus areas of the East of England which is a long way to the port straw is making upwards of £120 per tonne. Add in haulage and it's no wonder he hasn't a price on his add

Bass Reeves · 10-12-2017 11:50pm

White Clover wrote: »

Bass, that's a bale/day? 23/day +minerals and lime or 1.5ish/hd/day?

Sorr WC that should have been one bale. for 16/2 day. I actually feed them two at the time and they last four days. They might be a bit tight the last day but they clean up the feed face completely

Dunedin wrote: »

Would you mind putting up the breakdown of the €23 per bale

Cutting is 1.5/bale I have my own mower. 8 euro/bale to the contractor to bale, wrap and rake. Early first cut has extra wrap as it is at the back of the stack of bales and will be last used 2nd cut is usually standard wrapped as it is the first used and will not be there the following year. So plastic is about 3.4/bale. Drawing and stacking is 1 euro/bale some by contractor some by myself. A crop of silage will take about 100N, 100K and 30P. It is a mixture of slurry and Nitrogen usually urea and 0-7-30/MOP. Usually I average about 8 bales/acre with the newer balers.

100 units of N/acre costs 4.5/bale. 3K gallons slurry costs about 3/bale. MOP and 0-7-30 cost about 350/ton. When you mix and match I cost fertlizer at 9/bale. I was lucky this year as I hit good weather windows to cut silage. If wilt was not as good cost would drop slightly as fertlizer cost/bale would drop and I might revert to standard number of wraps/bale but all other cost remain much the same.

GrasstoMilk · 10-12-2017 11:52pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Wilting silage in general is a great job. I know that Teagasc and most advice is contrary tp too much of a wilt but I find that cattle do well on wilted silage even though it may not test well. My second cut is 40%DM and my first cut is about 33%DM. As well I have some haylage type Hybrid that is 50%+. P was good on it all 14% on first cut but DMD was 69 it was cut first week in June.

2nd cut was down at 66DMD but cattle stores are doing ok on it. Two bales of 2nd cut is feeding 16 450ish kg store for two days. I cost silage at 23/bale to make so with minerals and a bit of lime they are costing. It is costing 78.5 cent/day in feed costs I knpow it is expensive but what can you do. When they go onto 1st cut it will cost about 90c/day, I will be broke.

Are you sure 2 bales is feeding 16 stores for 2 days bass? I've 30 incalf heifers eating 2 bales every 2 days. 2nd cut aswell, not tested but reasonably good quality

White Clover · 11-12-2017 12:00am

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Are you sure 2 bales is feeding 16 stores for 2 days bass? I've 30 incalf heifers eating 2 bales every 2 days. 2nd cut aswell, not tested but reasonably good quality

Should that be 2 bales/day G2M?
I have a bunch of 20 stores 450ish kg eating a bale of wilted paddock grass every 2 days along with 4kg/hd meal. They'd be licking the concrete after 44 hours.

Bass Reeves · 11-12-2017 12:09am

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Are you sure 2 bales is feeding 16 stores for 2 days bass? I've 30 incalf heifers eating 2 bales every 2 days. 2nd cut aswell, not tested but reasonably good quality

I correct that it is two bales/pen of 16 ever four days. I feed no ration with it as I consider that I am only giving Larry beef that has no margin for me when I feed store ration for the winter. these store are about 450kgs, I have heavier one eating a tad more and lighter ones eating a tad less. I

Farmer · 11-12-2017 12:26am

Muckit wrote: »

If lads had their costings done up as good as Bass, they would see that having to buy bales at 25 euro isnt he end of the world.

Knowing your cost of production is lesson 1 in any business.

Aw Muckit, I think you're mixing up two things
1 The type of bale described by Baas
2 The type of bale that is made by many to sell at 20-25

You could feed them out at up to twice the rate

CloughCasey1 · 11-12-2017 12:39am

Farmer wrote: »

Aw Muckit, I think you're mixing up two things
1 The type of bale described by Baas
2 The type of bale that is made by many to sell at 20-25

You could feed them out at up to twice the rate

Was short 20 last yr. Nice first cut the neighbour said. 24 a bale. Landed in yard and put out the first one. Pure thatch. I will have 30 left over here i hope. I was talking to a fellow boardsie last week on the same subject and with dmd at 72% and protein over 16% i couldn't afford to sell on less than 35. At that they wont rot in the yard either.

Bass Reeves · 11-12-2017 10:25am

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Was short 20 last yr. Nice first cut the neighbour said. 24 a bale. Landed in yard and put out the first one. Pure thatch. I will have 30 left over here i hope. I was talking to a fellow boardsie last week on the same subject and with dmd at 72% and protein over 16% i couldn't afford to sell on less than 35. At that they wont rot in the yard either.

You paid a lot for silage last year. Bought off two lads last year. Paid both what they asked. First lads is a fellow that specializes in it nice second cut DM in the nid 20's, second lad was a neighbour that had haylage left over from previous year. It wasfine stuff to feed late February two bales would last a pen about 5 days. It was 24 hours short of being able to be baled as hay In both case after paying haulage it come to sub 20/bale

monseiur · 11-12-2017 5:44pm

Re. Fodder Crisis
Farmers regularly complain about being ripped off by supermarkets, co op's, grain merchants etc. but it seems that the farmers worst enemy can, at times, be his fellow farmer. (Not wishing to paint all with the one brush)
Two weeks ago a neighbour bought a load of hay (180 square bales) off a lad he's dealing with for over 10 years. Paid €3 out of the shed.
Decided to go for another load last Saturday morning (after being told there was over 500 bales still available in shed, same hay etc.)
On arrival in the yard and as he was about to start loading he was told that the price had gone up - it was now €4 - this after travelling over 35 miles with pick up & trailer. He offered €3.50 but the seller wouldn't budge - he had to get €4 . Needless to say he returned home with an empty trailer and will never darken his door again.
I have seen the bales and to say they were small is an understatement, 3 of them would make 2 half decent bales but not 2 big square bales.
With rolled barley etc. at €10 for 40 kgs. bag I advised my neighbour to feed extra meal and cut back on hay...it might teach certain folk a lesson and save a few euros in the process.
Unfortunately it seems this rip off practice is rife with tiny straw square bales being sold for up to €3.50 & round bales (hay) €40
Now I don't begrudge anyone a decent profit for his labour but there is such a thing as common decency etc. It is short sighted greed on behalf of certain folk but they may be,hopefully, cutting their own throats in the long run - decent folk have long memories.

M.

Who2 · 11-12-2017 9:13pm

monseiur wrote: »

Re. Fodder Crisis
Farmers regularly complain about being ripped off by supermarkets, co op's, grain merchants etc. but it seems that the farmers worst enemy can, at times, be his fellow farmer. (Not wishing to paint all with the one brush)
Two weeks ago a neighbour bought a load of hay (180 square bales) off a lad he's dealing with for over 10 years. Paid €3 out of the shed.
Decided to go for another load last Saturday morning (after being told there was over 500 bales still available in shed, same hay etc.)
On arrival in the yard and as he was about to start loading he was told that the price had gone up - it was now €4 - this after travelling over 35 miles with pick up & trailer. He offered €3.50 but the seller wouldn't budge - he had to get €4 . Needless to say he returned home with an empty trailer and will never darken his door again.
I have seen the bales and to say they were small is an understatement, 3 of them would make 2 half decent bales but not 2 big square bales.
With rolled barley etc. at €10 for 40 kgs. bag I advised my neighbour to feed extra meal and cut back on hay...it might teach certain folk a lesson and save a few euros in the process.
Unfortunately it seems this rip off practice is rife with tiny straw square bales being sold for up to €3.50 & round bales (hay) €40
Now I don't begrudge anyone a decent profit for his labour but there is such a thing as common decency etc. It is short sighted greed on behalf of certain folk but they may be,hopefully, cutting their own throats in the long run - decent folk have long memories.

M.

There's a few contradictions there: a decent profit for his labor, try making square bales yourself allow 10 euro an hour for your labor and see how much a small square will cost. Small squares have been 3 a bale a good few years now. I'd be expecting them to be 4 now. It's not short sighted greed, it's a business transaction if he had to travel 35 miles he's not a neighbor and probably owes him nothing. Everyone deserves to make a bit of cream every so often and the lads making silage and hay are included in that too, they spend enough years just about breaking even.

sea12 · 11-12-2017 9:25pm

Who2 wrote: »

There's a few contradictions there: a decent profit for his labor, try making square bales yourself allow 10 euro an hour for your labor and see how much a small square will cost. Small squares have been 3 a bale a good few years now. I'd be expecting them to be 4 now. It's not short sighted greed, it's a business transaction if he had to travel 35 miles he's not a neighbor and probably owes him nothing. Everyone deserves to make a bit of cream every so often and the lads making silage and hay are included in that too, they spend enough years just about breaking even.

I agree. Allot of work involved in Sq bales. For all u know the man could be selling on the sq bales himself at a profit. Maybe not but if the original man only has 500 bales he is entitled to make a few quid extra. The market has gone up so he is entitled to get a bit extra., if the market was flooded and the price of hay was only €2 do you think the regular customer is going to pay €3.

patsy_mccabe · 11-12-2017 9:54pm

There's a market for hay and Straw just like everything else. One person doesn't control the price. You can't expect to buy them below their value.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 11-12-2017 10:15pm

There's a bit of advice on feeding ration to cattle to stretch silage in the tweet below. Just click on a pic to see the info.
https://twitter.com/AurivoFarmProf/status/940220832596615169

Dakota Dan · 11-12-2017 11:04pm

Who2 wrote: »

I reckon there's still a lot of people that haven't realized they will be short. I'm half way through my pit and half way through the bales, tanks will be full well before open date for spreading and I'm using more meal than ever. I'm going to put out a batch of light heifers in January and the same goes for the spring calves as they calve and I'll just get out I reckon. Twenty minutes down the road from me and they are down to the last batches of feeding already.

I've only 9% of my winter feed used so far everything was out up to 25th of November.

White Clover · 11-12-2017 11:12pm

Dakota Dan wrote: »

I've only 9% of my winter feed used so far everything was out up to 25th of November.

Dry ground there Dan. East of mallow wouldn't be typical of many parts of the country.

Dakota Dan · 11-12-2017 11:15pm

White Clover wrote: »

Dry ground there Dan. East of mallow wouldn't be typical of many parts of the country.

I'm south of Mallow, it was second cut that I kept for grazing as it went late for cutting with the weather, low stocking rate as well.

bogman_bass · 12-12-2017 12:33am

There was never more fodder saved in Meath than this year. Quality might be a different question but there is no shortage of it. This isn't like 2012

Who2 · 12-12-2017 8:50am

bogman_bass wrote: »

There was never more fodder saved in Meath than this year. Quality might be a different question but there is no shortage of it. This isn't like 2012

There's a friend who was destocked with Tbh that's selling his feed and reckons most of his customers are Meath men.

Dakota Dan · 12-12-2017 9:38am

How many selling bales demand payment before they are loaded?

whelan2 · 12-12-2017 10:10am

Dakota Dan wrote: »

How many selling bales demand payment before they are loaded?

Depends who the customer is, I know a neighbour is still owed for bales sold in 2013

Dakota Dan · 12-12-2017 10:35am

whelan2 wrote: »

Depends who the customer is, I know a neighbour is still owed for bales sold in 2013

I got caught the same year somwtimes the person you know is worse than a stranger.

monseiur · 12-12-2017 11:27am

Dakota Dan wrote: »

How many selling bales demand payment before they are loaded?

If you are referring to my post, the seller did not demand payment before loading, he just casually mentioned that he had upped the price...cunningly testing the buyer out before loading.
If he had any decency he would have informed the buyer before he travelled. He deliberately kept him in the dark, thinking that having travelled the distance he would buy at the inflated price.
M.

monseiur · 12-12-2017 11:33am

Who2 wrote: »

There's a few contradictions there: a decent profit for his labor, try making square bales yourself allow 10 euro an hour for your labor and see how much a small square will cost. Small squares have been 3 a bale a good few years now. I'd be expecting them to be 4 now. It's not short sighted greed, it's a business transaction if he had to travel 35 miles he's not a neighbor and probably owes him nothing. Everyone deserves to make a bit of cream every so often and the lads making silage and hay are included in that too, they spend enough years just about breaking even.

He's my neighbour, no the sellers, and at €3 for a tiny bale that's €4.50 for a big square bale I very much doubt that the seller was out of pocket, no one expects something for nothing but being blindly ripped off by your fellow farmer is something else and the sad thing is you see nothing wrong with it.
M.

bogman_bass · 12-12-2017 11:47am

Who2 wrote: »

bogman_bass wrote: »

There was never more fodder saved in Meath than this year. Quality might be a different question but there is no shortage of it. This isn't like 2012

There's a friend who was destocked with Tbh that's selling his feed and reckons most of his customers are Meath men.

There are lads round here that but in silage every year but I helped cover a few pits this year and they were all bigger and higher than any other year

paddysdream · 12-12-2017 12:02pm

Dakota Dan wrote: »

How many selling bales demand payment before they are loaded?

Anyone letting bales out of a yard or field without looking for the money would be foolish unless you know the person very very well.
Traditionally hay and straw was always a thing that was paid for on the day,usually in real money,unlike say hire work etc.

Fodder Crisis

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