CONSTRUCTION LOCKDOWN JAN 2021

muffler · 09-02-2021 10:22pm

scwazrh wrote: »

Where did you get this information from?

Google is your friend.

It was announced with the details for the current lockdown.

scwazrh · 09-02-2021 10:30pm

muffler wrote: »

Google is your friend.

It was announced with the details for the current lockdown.

Think you’re wrong there.privately funded residential works that were in progress on the 8th jan and could achieve practical completion by 31st jan could continue.

The post I questioned was from yesterday 8th Feb and says small builders missed that anything close to completion can continue .That is incorrect.

Gumbo · 10-02-2021 12:25am

scwazrh wrote: »

Where did you get this information from?

Based within the confines of SI4 of 2021.

scwazrh · 10-02-2021 12:29am

Gumbo wrote: »

Based within the confines of SI4 of 2021.

You might want to read that . It does not say that works close to completion can continue .There are certain exemptions but in general privately funded projects which most small builders are on cannot continue as you claim they can.

Gumbo · 10-02-2021 12:30am

scwazrh wrote: »

You might want to read that . It does not say that works close to completion can continue .There are certain exemptions but in general privately funded projects which most small builders are on cannot continue as you claim they can.

They could. Within the confines of that legislation.

housing construction and completion works ongoing on the 8th day of January 2021 where such works are scheduled to be completed by the 31st day of January 2021 and will render the home under construction capable of occupation by that date;

scwazrh · 10-02-2021 12:44am

Gumbo wrote: »

They could. Within the confines of that legislation.

Yes which I wrote in my previous post that up till 31st jan they could but you posted yesterday that they still could which is why I asked where you got this info from .

Wildly Boaring · 10-02-2021 9:22am

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#construction

Construction is closed, with the following exceptions:.......

in relation to private homes that are practically complete and scheduled for habitation by 31 January 2021, including where snagging, and essential remediation work, such as pyrite works is nearing completion, works should continue to enable homeowners access their homes. Heating, water, broadband and electricity installation should also continue to enable homes be occupied

ZeroSum76 · 10-02-2021 10:35am

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#construction

Construction is closed, with the following exceptions:.......

in relation to private homes that are practically complete and scheduled for habitation by 31 January 2021, including where snagging, and essential remediation work, such as pyrite works is nearing completion, works should continue to enable homeowners access their homes. Heating, water, broadband and electricity installation should also continue to enable homes be occupied

I expect loads of people have used that to justify continuing with private jobs that were nowhere near completing near end of January.

I have 3 questions in relation to this.

For folks that went ahead and are continuing to go ahead pretending they were due to be finished and in (even though they were not), if something happened on site is it conceivable that insurance might not pay out based on the fact that they were working against regulations?
Presumably anyone who used this exception in January can't continue to use it in Feb and Mar?
How does one prove 'practically complete and scheduled for habitation by Jan 31st'? Surely anyone can say that and get away with it?

Gumbo · 10-02-2021 1:11pm

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

I expect loads of people have used that to justify continuing with private jobs that were nowhere near completing near end of January.

I have 3 questions in relation to this.
For folks that went ahead and are continuing to go ahead pretending they were due to be finished and in (even though they were not), if something happened on site is it conceivable that insurance might not pay out based on the fact that they were working against regulations?

Presumably anyone who used this exception in January can't continue to use it in Feb and Mar?

How does one prove 'practically complete and scheduled for habitation by Jan 31st'? Surely anyone can say that and get away with it?

1. I don't think so. I think Insurance will always pay out but, they may look to recoup costs should they deem it acceptable. Similar to Motor Insurance. You can get insured even with no licence. If you have an accident then the car will still be insured and will pay out to third parties, but they will then chase the policy holder for making a false declaration and to recover costs.

2. Technically no. If the works are deemed non essential then that have to cease. There's a few cases where they can continue such as Home Adaptation jobs, Grant funded jobs etc

3. Close to construction completion. If it looks to be complete. But anyway, that has passed now. Its either complete now and habituated or its stopped works.

clayfarm1234 · 17-02-2021 10:59am

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ministers-express-doubts-over-planned-reopening-of-construction-in-march-1082436.html

Ministers express doubts over planned reopening of construction in March

DOCARCH · 17-02-2021 11:21am

clayfarm1234 wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ministers-express-doubts-over-planned-reopening-of-construction-in-march-1082436.html

Ministers express doubts over planned reopening of construction in March

This has been hinted at for a while with construction possibly opening on a phased/priority basis. Domestic extensions/one off houses being bottom of the list!

ZeroSum76 · 17-02-2021 11:21am

Interesting. NPHET would say that though wouldn't they. It's up to the government to weigh up all factors and decide. If there was widespread non-compliance with the Jan-Mar restrictions/shut down, I suspect if they continue the restrictions until April, they ain't seen nothing yet. Most people are willing to play ball but enough is enough.

I took an approved trip to North Dublin 2 weeks ago and based on the traffic and foot-fall in and out of the shops and the continuation of numbers of new cases in the 1k mark, it's clear to me that most people are just going about their business while the eejits who comply suffer the most.

DOCARCH · 17-02-2021 11:24am

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

It's up to the government to weigh up all factors and decide.

They will....and they will not be making same mistake again like they did in November/December! Expect extreme caution!

Corby Trouser Press · 17-02-2021 11:35am

DOCARCH wrote: »

They will....and they will not be making same mistake again like they did in November/December! Expect extreme caution!

What mistakes were made in relation to Construction?

Why are we the only country in Europe who have decided to restrict our Construction industry in 2021?

DOCARCH · 17-02-2021 11:50am

Corby Trouser Press wrote: »

What mistakes were made in relation to Construction?

Just saying that if NPHET recommend not opening up construction (...for whatever their reasons might be...) it is very unlikely, this time, that the politicians will go against their advice like they did in November/December.

Not attempting to have a debate whether construction is safe or not safe.

Corby Trouser Press wrote: »

Why are we the only country in Europe who have decided to restrict our Construction industry in 2021?

Absolutely no idea!

Bonzo Delaney · 17-02-2021 2:31pm

DOCARCH wrote: »

This has been hinted at for a while with construction possibly opening on a phased/priority basis. Domestic extensions/one off houses being bottom of the list!

And these are the only ones that lads are working on at the moment

Frozen Veg · 17-02-2021 2:56pm

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

Interesting. NPHET would say that though wouldn't they. It's up to the government to weigh up all factors and decide. If there was widespread non-compliance with the Jan-Mar restrictions/shut down, I suspect if they continue the restrictions until April, they ain't seen nothing yet. Most people are willing to play ball but enough is enough.

I took an approved trip to North Dublin 2 weeks ago and based on the traffic and foot-fall in and out of the shops and the continuation of numbers of new cases in the 1k mark, it's clear to me that most people are just going about their business while the eejits who comply suffer the most.

The government need to get the balance right here.

Shutting construction any longer will cripple the country for years.

wolfyboy555 · 18-02-2021 12:45pm

Really hoping work on private new build estates can recommence in March. I emailed some TDs in relation to the above but only got a generic response saying the 'living with Covid' plan will be released Monday.

ZeroSum76 · 19-02-2021 4:47pm

So am I reading right construction to remain closed?

clayfarm1234 · 19-02-2021 4:58pm

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

So am I reading right construction to remain closed?

most of it...but some construction will open - will it be new housing builds, or something else??? will get to know on Monday !

ZeroSum76 · 19-02-2021 5:07pm

clayfarm1234 wrote: »

most of it...but some construction will open - will it be new housing builds, or something else??? will get to know on Monday !

Varadkar said today at 1 that construction will remain shut. The numbers have plateaued at too high a number.

Atomic Pineapple · 19-02-2021 5:07pm

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

So am I reading right construction to remain closed?

Yep, only schools to reopen in March, no construction. NPHET recommending that the numbers are still too high to open construction. I have been an advocate of the restrictions thus far, but I think given the length of time we are now looking at that a blanket approach is no longer feasible. There are 15 counties with a 5 day moving average of less than 20 cases, surely some relief can be given on a county by county basis? NPHET are only looking at data I guess, not how people behave, we have kept our site shut but we have done so while watching others gleefully disregard the rules. We are living out of a single room with a newborn, and there will become a point where we can't wait any longer to restart construction.

ZeroSum76 · 19-02-2021 5:11pm

Atomic Pineapple wrote: »

Yep, only schools to reopen in March, no construction. NPHET recommending that the numbers are still too high to open construction. I have been an advocate of the restrictions thus far, but I think given the length of time we are now looking at that a blanket approach is no longer feasible. There are 15 counties with a 5 day moving average of less than 20 cases, surely some relief can be given on a county by county basis? NPHET are only looking at data I guess, not how people behave, we have kept our site shut but we have done so while watching others gleefully disregard the rules. We are living out of a single room with a newborn, and there will become a point where we can't wait any longer to restart construction.

Same. We sold our house in September and have been in a self catering holiday accommodation since then. Our new house (renovation) is a building site. We shut down after 1 week's work in January. Our kids are 6 and 9 and we now risk being homeless in summer as our accommodation won't extend beyond June and we have a good 5 months work before we can move home. Been compliant to date but this might be a bridge too far. Also numbers in Wicklow are always low and the builder is a father son operation with work to be done outside on a detached property.

Frozen Veg · 19-02-2021 5:30pm

Atomic Pineapple wrote: »

Yep, only schools to reopen in March, no construction. NPHET recommending that the numbers are still too high to open construction. I have been an advocate of the restrictions thus far, but I think given the length of time we are now looking at that a blanket approach is no longer feasible. There are 15 counties with a 5 day moving average of less than 20 cases, surely some relief can be given on a county by county basis? NPHET are only looking at data I guess, not how people behave, we have kept our site shut but we have done so while watching others gleefully disregard the rules. We are living out of a single room with a newborn, and there will become a point where we can't wait any longer to restart construction.

If they actually enforced the restrictions it would be different story. Alot of people doing what they like, not surprising numbers are stubborn. One month's proper lockdown would be better than this half arsed prolonged rubbish.

Frozen Veg · 19-02-2021 5:31pm

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

Same. We sold our house in September and have been in a self catering holiday accommodation since then. Our new house (renovation) is a building site. We shut down after 1 week's work in January. Our kids are 6 and 9 and we now risk being homeless in summer as our accommodation won't extend beyond June and we have a good 5 months work before we can move home. Been compliant to date but this might be a bridge too far. Also numbers in Wicklow are always low and the builder is a father son operation with work to be done outside on a detached property.

Very hard to argue that you're case is not essential. Most people have no problem stopping for a month but 4 months stoppage is unconstitutional.

ZeroSum76 · 19-02-2021 5:31pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

If they actually enforced the restrictions it would be different story. Alot of people doing what they like, not surprising numbers are stubborn. One month's proper lockdown would be better than this half arsed prolonged rubbish.

100%

ZeroSum76 · 19-02-2021 5:34pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Very hard to argue that you're case is not essential. Most people have no problem stopping for a month but 4 months stoppage is unconstitutional.

The problem is we can argue all we want and everyone would agree it should proceed but try getting someone to give you the green light. No one wants to be the one to say yeah go ahead. They just reiterate what the restrictions are and who they apply to and leave it at that.

sydthebeat · 19-02-2021 6:07pm

Ive been out in the car twice in the last 6 weeks..... and both times there didnt seem to be much reduction of traffic levels. im talking traffic jams in the usual spots (in laois).

seems theres still plenty of activity happening, as irish people have a knack of meandering "around" restrictions.

anecdotally though most of the cases im hearing are still from house visit spreads...

km79 · 20-02-2021 10:47am

“ Construction work is likely to resume in April and this will again be regularly reviewed. However, there is no proposed date decided for allowing construction workers to return to building sites“

What does this mean for one off builds ?

Frozen Veg · 20-02-2021 11:21am

km79 wrote: »

“ Construction work is likely to resume in April and this will again be regularly reviewed. However, there is no proposed date decided for allowing construction workers to return to building sites“

What does this mean for one off builds ?

Looking like April at earliest. Scandalous.

km79 · 20-02-2021 11:25am

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Looking like April at earliest. Scandalous.

Are councils even giving out commencement notices .......

malinheader · 20-02-2021 11:35am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Ive been out in the car twice in the last 6 weeks..... and both times there didnt seem to be much reduction of traffic levels. im talking traffic jams in the usual spots (in laois).

seems theres still plenty of activity happening, as irish people have a knack of meandering "around" restrictions.

anecdotally though most of the cases im hearing are still from house visit spreads...

As far as I see it in my area all big construction projects are stopped but all small construction businesses are carrying on as normal. Very little change in work traffic to be honest.
Its not really meandering around restrictions it's more to do with no real guidance from the Government on which services are deemed essential and which are not.

Gumbo · 20-02-2021 12:49pm

km79 wrote: »

Are councils even giving out commencement notices .......

Councils don’t “give out” commencement notices.
The council (Building Control Section) cannot refuse to accept a CN as the legislation that stops works is a HSA/Garda issue.

All the council can do is validate the notice as long as the documentation is correct. It’s up to the building owner/contractor to abide by the HSA legislation and SI4 of 2021.

Frozen Veg · 20-02-2021 1:48pm

km79 wrote: »

Are councils even giving out commencement notices .......

March 5th is the earliest you can lodge one at the moment afaik. Until further clarification from government.

Frozen Veg · 20-02-2021 1:49pm

Have met one of the larger window companies on the road with deliveries for installation on numerous occasions this week.

Bonzo Delaney · 20-02-2021 2:44pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Have met one of the larger window companies on the road with deliveries for installation on numerous occasions this week.

Was slating a roof on a house outside Naas during the week counted 5 vans on the job incl mine 2 window lorries and a van ( big irish company) arrived in at 8am 7 more lads in the house .
Counted about12 lads working inside I stayed up on the safety of the roof for the week.

ZeroSum76 · 20-02-2021 2:59pm

malinheader wrote: »

Its not really meandering around restrictions it's more to do with no real guidance from the Government on which services are deemed essential and which are not.

I think the guidelines are pretty clear. I would wager if you stopped everyone on the move or working (speaking purely construction here) and assessed the validity of their claim to proceed you could quickly and easily validate or invalidate that claim based on the govt restrictions. I don't really think there's that much ambiguity.

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Have met one of the larger window companies on the road with deliveries for installation on numerous occasions this week.

Well it's conceivable they were working on a social housing project or essential construction. I think this is crux of the problem really. Without proper enforcement and checkpoints and validation, people can only second guess others right to be working. This provides enough fog (without proper enforcement) to enable people to flagrantly flout the guidelines and go undetected.

ZeroSum76 · 20-02-2021 5:18pm

Word on the street is that the Gardaí have been told by management to clamp down on rogue sites.

Too little too late.

The rogue private builds that were at foundation stage in January are probably more or less 75% complete now at this stage.

sydthebeat · 20-02-2021 5:21pm

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

Word on the street is that the Gardaí have been told by management to clamp down on rogue sites.

Too little too late.

The rogue private builds that were at foundation stage in January are probably more or less 75% complete now at this stage.

Ermmmm.......

The chan chan man · 20-02-2021 5:22pm

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

Word on the street is that the Gardaí have been told by management to clamp down on rogue sites.

Too little too late.

The rogue private builds that were at foundation stage in January are probably more or less 75% complete now at this stage.

Can you give me that builders number?!

17larsson · 20-02-2021 5:26pm

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

Word on the street is that the Gardaí have been told by management to clamp down on rogue sites.

Too little too late.

The rogue private builds that were at foundation stage in January are probably more or less 75% complete now at this stage.

Disgraceful isn't it?
75% complete? I'm so angry about the people that get to move into those houses, they shouldn't be allowed.
They should knock them down before we get covid

ZeroSum76 · 20-02-2021 5:40pm

OK aside from the timeline exaggeration for the sake of effect, the point remains.

ZeroSum76 · 20-02-2021 5:41pm

The chan chan man wrote: »

Can you give me that builders number?!

Ok ok I may have exaggerated just a smidge !!

Frozen Veg · 20-02-2021 6:36pm

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

I think the guidelines are pretty clear. I would wager if you stopped everyone on the move or working (speaking purely construction here) and assessed the validity of their claim to proceed you could quickly and easily validate or invalidate that claim based on the govt restrictions. I don't really think there's that much ambiguity.

Well it's conceivable they were working on a social housing project or essential construction. I think this is crux of the problem really. Without proper enforcement and checkpoints and validation, people can only second guess others right to be working. This provides enough fog (without proper enforcement) to enable people to flagrantly flout the guidelines and go undetected.

There is alot of work going on in one of houses. See it myself everyday.

Just to add, it's all outdoor work. Minimal covid risks.

muffler · 20-02-2021 7:08pm

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

Ok ok I may have exaggerated just a smidge !!

This is very much a fact filled thread in a fact filled forum so posting grossly exaggerated data isnt appreciated.

Gumbo · 20-02-2021 7:12pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

March 5th is the earliest you can lodge one at the moment afaik. Until further clarification from government.

March 6th, 14 days notice

Wildly Boaring · 20-02-2021 7:43pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

There is alot of work going on in one of houses. See it myself everyday.

Just to add, it's all outdoor work. Minimal covid risks.

On my travels today I noted 2 ongoing.

One at rising walls level.
Second first fix carpentry ongoing.

Neither will be completed shortly.

Some large sites are pushing the rules. Large main contractor mobilising to a site. Have mobilised to divert a sewer. Used this to install accesses and temp car parks. Chatting to the manager. The guards have been on site weekly to make sure that's all they're doing. Plenty complaints from locals.
But even the sewer diversion is nonessential

ECO_Mental · 20-02-2021 9:13pm

Talking to my kitchen man yesterday and he heard there was a builder in Douglas Cork got fined €3500 for working on a private house last week...

km79 · 20-02-2021 9:14pm

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Talking to my kitchen man yesterday and he heard there was a builder in Douglas Cork got fined €3500 for working on a private house last week...

On what basis ?
I don’t see any fines bar the one for being more than 5km from home ......

ECO_Mental · 20-02-2021 9:17pm

km79 wrote: »

On what basis ?
I don’t see any fines bar the one for being more than 5km from home ......

Working during COVID on non essential works I presume....

CONSTRUCTION LOCKDOWN JAN 2021

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