Plumbers

I Am The Law · 24-02-2021 2:45pm

Steveop wrote: »

€1300 to renovate the bathroom plumbing works only

Get the lads on the plumbing forum to guide you through it, grand fellas and €1300 saved.

kingbhome · 24-02-2021 10:20pm

Stihl waters wrote: »

I dont know what to tell you so, that's the going rate around my area and lads seem happy with it, and it's not just me, I don't know any tradesman charging more than that for any work in my area no matter who they're working for, and all good tradesmen with good reputations and quality work

Plumbers and electricians seem to get more and always have been. I agree with you about some tradesmen charging these rates but they have a mind block and think they either won't get more or are deserved off it. These aren't businessmen! Just people who want a wage

kingbhome · 24-02-2021 10:24pm

P2C wrote: »

Yes he’s a handyman more than a building contractor sorry for generalisation but highly sought after and has excellent quality work. I am paying based on each stage, foundation, block, roof, stone. Have looked at plenty of his jobs and 100%. It’s all small extensions, grounds work, stone walls, paving, tiling etc. Have him booked for a year. Have a friend engineer who will take a look at each step. I wasn’t watching intently but I thought he was here around five days. Built my own house and subcontracted all the work the same way and worked out very cost effective. Done a lot of the work self build. Be interesting to see what the block works costs but they are sitting here for six weeks waiting and he’s said he won’t start until restrictions lifted so doesn’t sound like he’s on the the dole but maybe the PUP.

quote="kingbhome;116386470"]850, how many men and how many days. Some just stick to there basic cash price and also get money of the government somehow either farm assistance or dole.

[/quote]

Good on him for covering all that work. He'll be always busy. Can't fault him if he covers his own wages, pays his taxes and is happy.

booooonzo · 25-02-2021 12:22am

kingbhome wrote: »

40-50 per hour. They go to college, get a qualification. Spend 10s of thousands on tools, van,insurance, public liability insurance, vat, income tax, diesel, clothing, etc..

How much do you think they should charge

there's not many spending €10.000+ on tools
vans are vat free and fuel
id bet there's a hell of a lot not paying much income tax
There are loads charging 200+ per day cash

you'd want a 90k paye job for similar take home

kingbhome · 25-02-2021 10:24am

booooonzo wrote: »

there's not many spending €10.000+ on tools
vans are vat free and fuel
id bet there's a hell of a lot not paying much income tax
There are loads charging 200+ per day cash

you'd want a 90k paye job for similar take home

How much do you think they should charge per day.

I'd also be interested in knowing what muffler thinks s tradesman should charge aswell since he was the one that questioned the rates.

booooonzo · 25-02-2021 2:04pm

kingbhome wrote: »

How much do you think they should charge per day.

I'd also be interested in knowing what muffler thinks s tradesman should charge aswell since he was the one that questioned the rates.

probably not a black and white answer.
everyone is entitled to a fair wage but it seems to me that such a huge blind eye is turned to the cash end of the business that it taints the rest.
needs regulation, im sure it not easy as its such a cultural thing now but it is bizzar that its accepted for such a large industry to just not pay tax or only pay what's felt like.

on the flip side there are multinationals at the same on a much larger scale

25-02-2021 2:09pm

booooonzo wrote: »

there's not many spending €10.000+ on tools

When I worked as an electrical contractor (well over 10 years ago) I spend at least €1,000 just on test equipment and about the same on just one kango. So I would say that in total I would easily spent €10,000 on tools. Not to mention that quite a few items "walked".

vans are vat free and fuel

They are but that works both ways. If VAT registered you have to charge VAT as well. Besides the higher rates are 21 and 13.5% you still have to pay the balance.

There are loads charging 200+ per day cash

Why would any half descent spark or plumber do that?

They could make so much more working for someone else and let them take all of the risks and put up with all of the hassle.

An electrician with 5 years experience can expect to earn €23.12 per hour according to the TEEU. For me when I was on my tools overtime started at 1.5 times the hourly rate. Sunday was double pay all day. I also got a minimum of 2 hours travel per day, a host of other expenses, holiday pay and pension. I also got paid 10 hours extra to be on call out. €200 per day would have been very unappealing to me even back then.

Also this mythical €200 per day rate for a skilled individual, he / she would be working uninsured. Is it really worth it for the customer?

you'd want a 90k paye job for similar take home

At rate of €200 per day?
Clearly you have no idea of the overheads and have not factored in pension, sick pay, holidays, clients that refuse to pay / can't pay, stolen materials.....

It is really simple, if you don't agree with the price quoted go elsewhere. If the prices are as off the wall as you suggest you won't have an issue finding someone to do the work at a fraction of the cost.

booooonzo wrote: »

probably not a black and white answer.

So more than €200 per day?

everyone is entitled to a fair wage

Particularly after 4 years training.

but it seems to me that such a huge blind eye is turned to the cash end of the business that it taints the rest.

Who exactly is turning a blind eye? Revenue are carrying out audits to beat the band. I went through this myself!

needs regulation, im sure it not easy as its such a cultural thing now but it is bizzar that its accepted for such a large industry to just not pay tax or only pay what's felt like.

It is highly regulated!
Don't believe me??? Simply google CRU, Safe Electric and RECI.

booooonzo · 25-02-2021 3:27pm

2011 wrote: »

When I worked as an electrical contractor (well over 10 years ago) I spend at least €1,000 just on test equipment and about the same on just one kango. So I would say that in total I would easily spent €10,000 on tools. Not to mention that quite a few items "walked".

They are but that works both ways. If VAT registered you have to charge VAT as well. Besides the higher rates are 21 and 13.5% you still have to pay the balance.

Why would any half descent spark or plumber do that?
They could make so much more working for someone else and let them take all of the risks and put up with all of the hassle.

An electrician with 5 years experience can expect to earn €23.12 per hour according to the TEEU. For me when I was on my tools overtime started at 1.5 times the hourly rate. Sunday was double pay all day. I also got a minimum of 2 hours travel per day, a host of other expenses, holiday pay and pension. I also got paid 10 hours extra to be on call out. €200 per day would have been very unappealing to me even back then.

Also this mythical €200 per day rate for a skilled individual, he / she would be working uninsured. Is it really worth it for the customer?

At rate of €200 per day?
Clearly you have no idea of the overheads and have not factored in pension, sick pay, holidays, clients that refuse to pay / can't pay, stolen materials.....

It is really simple, if you don't agree with the price quoted go elsewhere. If the prices are as off the wall as you suggest you won't have an issue finding someone to do the work at a fraction of the cost.

So more than €200 per day?

Particularly after 4 years training.

Who exactly is turning a blind eye? Revenue are carrying out audits to beat the band. I went through this myself!

It is highly regulated!
Don't believe me??? Simply google CRU, Safe Electric and RECI.

To be fair i wasn't thinking of electrical at all , I got a price i was happy with from a registered electrician and was happy to go with that. It is one of the more regulated and the better for it id say..

Revenue might be auditing but there are countless people turning blind eyes
its in the culture to ask for a cash price for a "better deal"
its not accepted in other countries and seen as cheating the system and tax payer.

25-02-2021 8:28pm

booooonzo wrote: »

To be fair i wasn't thinking of electrical at all , I got a price i was happy with from a registered electrician and was happy to go with that.

Fair enough, but I would have presented the same argument if I was a plumber.

It is one of the more regulated and the better for it id say..

RGI are highly regulated.

Revenue might be auditing but there are countless people turning blind eyes
its in the culture to ask for a cash price for a "better deal"
its not accepted in other countries and seen as cheating the system and tax payer.

This is hardly something that just applies to plumbing!

Stihl waters · 25-02-2021 10:43pm

kingbhome wrote: »

How much do you think they should charge per day.

I'd also be interested in knowing what muffler thinks s tradesman should charge aswell since he was the one that questioned the rates.

Would it not be down to the individual what they want to charge, if one man charges 1000 a week and another charges 1500 and both are happy doing what they're at who's to say what a man should charge a day
Also it's not a level playing field across the board, my father in law is an electrician who is farms as well, all his children have flown the coop, he has no mortgage and would live a very modest life, now compare that to a 30 something with a young family a new van and a mortgage, if both of them priced a job who do you think could do it cheaper, not everyone wants or needs to charge 300 plus a day, it's down to what each individual is happy with

the_pen_turner · 25-02-2021 11:31pm

Stihl waters wrote: »

Would it not be down to the individual what they want to charge, if one man charges 1000 a week and another charges 1500 and both are happy doing what they're at who's to say what a man should charge a day
Also it's not a level playing field across the board, my father in law is an electrician who is farms as well, all his children have flown the coop, he has no mortgage and would live a very modest life, now compare that to a 30 something with a young family a new van and a mortgage, if both of them priced a job who do you think could do it cheaper, not everyone wants or needs to charge 300 plus a day, it's down to what each individual is happy with

there is nothing wrong with someone deciding that they only want to earn minium wage and bill themselves out at 200 day. but most tradesmen want to earn more than minium wage and they are perfectly right to want more considering the risk and stress we put up with.

we should be moving towards all trades charging 300 a day rather than 200 or less

quietsailor · 26-02-2021 11:03am

2011 wrote: »

RGI are highly regulated.

RGI only deals with fitting gas appliances. A plumber removing a bathroom suite and installing a new one isn't required to be registered with any regulatory body. There is plenty of plumbing work out there that doesn't come under the reach of a regulatory body

scwazrh · 26-02-2021 12:34pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

we should be moving towards all trades charging 300 a day rather than 200 or less

We should but we should also be moving to a higher level of professionalism in the trades sector .As soon as your a tradesman dealing directly with customers and not just house bashing on sites , you need to pay attention to business and customer service.
Unfortunately a lot of tradesman have the wrong attitude to customers which results in customers feeling that we are overpaid .

26-02-2021 1:51pm

quietsailor wrote: »

RGI only deals with fitting gas appliances

Agreed. That is where it is needed in my opinion.

A plumber removing a bathroom suite and installing a new one isn't required to be registered with any regulatory body. There is plenty of plumbing work out there that doesn't come under the reach of a regulatory body

....and if changing out a bathroom suite was regulated apart from driving up the cost what would it achieve for the customer?

the_pen_turner · 26-02-2021 7:02pm

scwazrh wrote: »

We should but we should also be moving to a higher level of professionalism in the trades sector .As soon as your a tradesman dealing directly with customers and not just house bashing on sites , you need to pay attention to business and customer service.
Unfortunately a lot of tradesman have the wrong attitude to customers which results in customers feeling that we are overpaid .

i agree 100%. i would like to see us move to a 4 billable week so you have the 5th day to price work and deal with customers

beggars_bush · 26-02-2021 9:30pm

MAULBROOK wrote: »

Lads if you think a plumber is expensive you clearly have never dealt with lift engineers. €130 ph minimum 3 hours per call out. 600% mark up on parts is standard.
Never move into a apartment.

Surely that is covered by the fees every owner pays into the management company?

Stihl waters · 26-02-2021 10:00pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i agree 100%. i would like to see us move to a 4 billable week so you have the 5th day to price work and deal with customers

What's stopping anyone that wants to do that doing it

the_pen_turner · 26-02-2021 10:02pm

Stihl waters wrote: »

What's stopping anyone that wants to do that doing it

customers willing to pay 25% higher rates

Stihl waters · 26-02-2021 10:43pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

customers willing to pay 25% higher rates

That's not going to happen, the market dictates what you can get away with charging, while we would like to charge 500 a day it's not going to happen, you might get an odd customer that'll pay a premium but few will see the value of paying the cost of a small mortgage for a days work

the_pen_turner · 26-02-2021 11:00pm

Stihl waters wrote: »

That's not going to happen, the market dictates what you can get away with charging, while we would like to charge 500 a day it's not going to happen, you might get an odd customer that'll pay a premium but few will see the value of paying the cost of a small mortgage for a days work

a lot of the smaller guys and handymen in america work like that.. 4 days on site , 1 day office and pricing etc.
im not saying it will happen but we should be moving towards it.
everyone wants trademen to run thein business more profectionally and answer phone promtly and get out to look at jobs straight away and return quotes quickly but they dont want to pay extra to facilitate it

Sjohn · 18-06-2021 11:37am

Got charged 140/hr to replace expansion tank in boiler, in Dublin, thought a bit steep to be honest, was expecting half that rate.

the_pen_turner · 18-06-2021 1:56pm

Sjohn wrote: »

Got charged 140/hr to replace expansion tank in boiler, in Dublin, thought a bit steep to be honest, was expecting half that rate.

probably based on a 2-3hour minimum or a minimum call out.
both seem fair
the 1 hr on site is rarely 1 hr of your day gone

Sjohn · 26-06-2021 5:03pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

probably based on a 2-3hour minimum or a minimum call out.
both seem fair
the 1 hr on site is rarely 1 hr of your day gone

Still makes no sense how that’s the same , unless call out is 210, on a 70 euro rate vs blended into a 140 euro rate.

Last part is not really relevant as that should be taken into account of the rate.

the_pen_turner · 26-06-2021 5:17pm

Sjohn wrote: »

Still makes no sense how that’s the same , unless call out is 210, on a 70 euro rate vs blended into a 140 euro rate.

Last part is not really relevant as that should be taken into account of the rate.

was it a once off job or was the plumber already there doing other work. of course its relivent if the one hour on site is really 3 hours between getting materials, driving to the job and back again. then the job took 3 hours not 1 so the 140 is 46euro per hour. or 41 if that includes vat.
maybe it includes milage or similar

MAULBROOK · 26-06-2021 5:36pm

Lift Engineers are charging €150ph. Minimum 3 hours per call out, even if it takes 30min to sort the problem. Don't even start if you need a part, they mark up 600% on that.

28-06-2021 12:22pm

Boards can be a very strange place, where pricing is concerned. I should pre-face this by saying that I'm in Drogheda, so outside of the Dublin bubble, but only just.

I've had lots of work done on my house over the last 3-4 years. Most of it came about as a result of building an extension, converting a block shed to a "living space" (bathroom, etc.) and other work associated with the extension (we destroyed the garden, and knocked the boundary wall, etc. which all had to be re-done).

I worked with a very small 2-man builder outfit and although he gave me details of other tradesmen, I could use who I wanted, and I paid everyone directly. Paid for the materials myself, etc.

Nothing ever cost me as much as the prices I got on Boards. A plumber, for example, may well be charging €50 an hour, but they're not getting it for anything other than small jobs. If they're on a job for a couple of days or a week (renovating a bathroom, for example) their 'per hour' prices are much more reasonable.

The prices being quoted in this thread are probably accurate enough for right-now pricing, as the demand is currently so great for anyone who can do anything handy at all, but I don't think they're a good general guide.

What i mean by "right now" is literally pricing today. For example, my brother is getting his attic converted, and including a bathroom in the job, but the lads are booked out 5 months in advance, and that was the earliest he could get anyone, other people are booked for the best part of a year in advance. As a result, they can charge a premium.

I got my bathroom renovated recently (about 2 months ago) and I would say I paid more than I paid for other bathrooms done in my house recently (had 2 other bathrooms renovated/installed in the last 4 years).

If you've got work that you want done, but you're not in a hurry, I could see demand returning to normal over the course of a year or so, but you never know.

Also, as I say, I'm not in Dublin, and we all know Dublin is a basket case where the price of anything is concerned, so i wouldn't be surprised at Dublin prices being significantly more. Even the lads that live beside me charge a 'Dublin Tax' when they are doing a job there.

MAULBROOK wrote: »

Lads if you think a plumber is expensive you clearly have never dealt with lift engineers. €130 ph minimum 3 hours per call out. 600% mark up on parts is standard.
Never move into a apartment.

MAULBROOK wrote: »

Lift Engineers are charging €150ph. Minimum 3 hours per call out, even if it takes 30min to sort the problem. Don't even start if you need a part, they mark up 600% on that.

You really don't like Lift Engineers, I take it.. :P

Stihl waters · 28-06-2021 12:42pm

scwazrh wrote: »

You cannot run a business as a sole trading tradesman and charge €250 / day . It simply is not possible to cover your costs at that rate.The tradesmen you are getting for €200-€250 obviously haven’t a clue about business and should be working as employees and not be self employed

Deleted User wrote: »

Boards can be a very strange place, where pricing is concerned. I should pre-face this by saying that I'm in Drogheda, so outside of the Dublin bubble, but only just.

I've had lots of work done on my house over the last 3-4 years. Most of it came about as a result of building an extension, converting a block shed to a "living space" (bathroom, etc.) and other work associated with the extension (we destroyed the garden, and knocked the boundary wall, etc. which all had to be re-done).

I worked with a very small 2-man builder outfit and although he gave me details of other tradesmen, I could use who I wanted, and I paid everyone directly. Paid for the materials myself, etc.

Nothing ever cost me as much as the prices I got on Boards. A plumber, for example, may well be charging €50 an hour, but they're not getting it for anything other than small jobs. If they're on a job for a couple of days or a week (renovating a bathroom, for example) their 'per hour' prices are much more reasonable.

The prices being quoted in this thread are probably accurate enough for right-now pricing, as the demand is currently so great for anyone who can do anything handy at all, but I don't think they're a good general guide.

What i mean by "right now" is literally pricing today. For example, my brother is getting his attic converted, and including a bathroom in the job, but the lads are booked out 5 months in advance, and that was the earliest he could get anyone, other people are booked for the best part of a year in advance. As a result, they can charge a premium.

I got my bathroom renovated recently (about 2 months ago) and I would say I paid more than I paid for other bathrooms done in my house recently (had 2 other bathrooms renovated/installed in the last 4 years).

If you've got work that you want done, but you're not in a hurry, I could see demand returning to normal over the course of a year or so, but you never know.

Also, as I say, I'm not in Dublin, and we all know Dublin is a basket case where the price of anything is concerned, so i wouldn't be surprised at Dublin prices being significantly more. Even the lads that live beside me charge a 'Dublin Tax' when they are doing a job there.

You really don't like Lift Engineers, I take it.. :P

The above quote (not yours) should tell you all you need to know about boards, tradesmen who I know for years and do well seemingly, obviously know nothing about business and should be working for someone with a higher understanding of how you're supposed to do things, nonsense really as only 1 tradesman I know charges 300 a day and hes in a very niche industry, just this morning I got a day rate of 600 plus vat for 3 carpenters on a day rate, 200 per day and that seems to be holding steady at that with the last while for all trades where I am, I suppose we should realise that boards.ie is a dublin centric platform and people will pay more in places of high population densities

MAULBROOK · 28-06-2021 3:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Boards can be a very strange place, where pricing is concerned. I should pre-face this by saying that I'm in Drogheda, so outside of the Dublin bubble, but only just.

I've had lots of work done on my house over the last 3-4 years. Most of it came about as a result of building an extension, converting a block shed to a "living space" (bathroom, etc.) and other work associated with the extension (we destroyed the garden, and knocked the boundary wall, etc. which all had to be re-done).

I worked with a very small 2-man builder outfit and although he gave me details of other tradesmen, I could use who I wanted, and I paid everyone directly. Paid for the materials myself, etc.

Nothing ever cost me as much as the prices I got on Boards. A plumber, for example, may well be charging €50 an hour, but they're not getting it for anything other than small jobs. If they're on a job for a couple of days or a week (renovating a bathroom, for example) their 'per hour' prices are much more reasonable.

The prices being quoted in this thread are probably accurate enough for right-now pricing, as the demand is currently so great for anyone who can do anything handy at all, but I don't think they're a good general guide.

What i mean by "right now" is literally pricing today. For example, my brother is getting his attic converted, and including a bathroom in the job, but the lads are booked out 5 months in advance, and that was the earliest he could get anyone, other people are booked for the best part of a year in advance. As a result, they can charge a premium.

I got my bathroom renovated recently (about 2 months ago) and I would say I paid more than I paid for other bathrooms done in my house recently (had 2 other bathrooms renovated/installed in the last 4 years).

If you've got work that you want done, but you're not in a hurry, I could see demand returning to normal over the course of a year or so, but you never know.

Also, as I say, I'm not in Dublin, and we all know Dublin is a basket case where the price of anything is concerned, so i wouldn't be surprised at Dublin prices being significantly more. Even the lads that live beside me charge a 'Dublin Tax' when they are doing a job there.

You really don't like Lift Engineers, I take it.. :P

I am one.

:D:D:D:D

Plumbers

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