Nvidia RTX Discussion

keffiyeh · 21-08-2018 9:11pm

Venom wrote: »

it would be brand destroying

Lads let's chill out shall we...

Again, there's nothing surprising about those numbers. Watch some videos on raytracing on youtube to understand what's actually happening; it's rather a lot. It's going to take a while to get real-time optimization down, etc. nVidia are well known for performance destroying gimmicks, it's been this way for years and that hasn't done anything to their brand. I'll hold out for an open source AMD or Vulkan driven version before I get mildly interested in getting this running on a rig of mine.

EoinHef · 21-08-2018 9:50pm

Its the PC Building and Upgrading forum,most regulars know people here make a PCMR joke every now and then,its not a big deal.

Report it and move on if it offends you but keep in mind your the only one here outraged by what was a throw away quip.

People these days,being offended is a way of life for some!!

dreamers75 · 21-08-2018 10:03pm

That 5 minutes spent reading the last 3 pages I aint getting back.

I am looking at a 2080TI purchase when they come out, RT looks great and all but ala BF1 amazing particle effects (which it has in 4k Ultra ) are simply stunning to look at. Star Wars is also a stunning stunning game (not very good ).....

But they mean **** all when you someone is shooting at you. After a few rounds you dont even notice it.

Solitaire · 21-08-2018 11:30pm

fitzgeme, keffiyeh, knock it off please. You both know you're winding the other up, and the provocation is dragging other forum users into your sh!tpost vortex with you. Everyone, please tone down the insults and (mock?-)outrage or the next one who'll be triggered is me, and then the thread will be sanitised of both bad posts and bad posters.

Mr Crispy · 22-08-2018 12:06am

Nvidia Clarifies - RTX in games doesn't mean Ray Tracing

So RTX enabled games can lack real-time ray tracing, and instead use the deep learning stuff?

These are all the announced games that will support real-time ray tracing;

Assetto Corsa Competizione
Atomic Heart
Battlefield V
Control
Enlisted
Justice
JX3
MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries
Metro Exodus
ProjectDH
Shadow of the Tomb Raider

The others on the list of 21 games presumably use DLSS or summat.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 22-08-2018 8:29am

Its an interesting debate, seems one camp is all about framerates and the other camp is about the ray tracing. I wonder if Nvidia had launched a card 20-30% faster than its predecessor (what they nocturnally do) would people complain? I suppose you are getting what you always got a modest but real frame rate improvement plus you pay the extra for the RTX parts. Without having the RTX on consumer card the devs wont work wih it, but you cannot optimise and improve without have games for it and a wide user base. Its a catch 22. People are saying to wait for the 7 or 8 u process next year but from what I have heard from intel plants, this small a process has yield problems and could be a long way off.

Samuel T. Cogley · 22-08-2018 8:45am

Predictions of only a 10-20% gain. Very good point re the stop gap IMHO.

keffiyeh · 22-08-2018 9:04am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Predictions of only a 10-20% gain. Very good point re the stop gap IMHO.

It's definitely first gen stuff. I predict software version within two Nvidia gpu cycles and I'll also go ahead and predict AMD will hold off until they have a software solution too.

Samuel T. Cogley · 22-08-2018 9:15am

I can't see AMD ever competing in the high end space; unless nVidia drive the prices up so much they can bring their professional ranges to bear. They're quite content producing mid range cards, APUs, and consoles chips. Their APUs are closly linked to their console chips and are getting metter and better, especially in the mobile space.

keffiyeh · 22-08-2018 9:28am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I can't see AMD ever competing in the high end space; unless nVidia drive the prices up so much they can bring their professional ranges to bear. They're quite content producing mid range cards, APUs, and consoles chips. Their APUs are closly linked to their console chips and are getting metter and better, especially in the mobile space.

They can compete with xx80 non-ti's, they've shown that. They also have Intel to think about now. Miners deflated the hype for their latest cycle, but I have high hopes for them. I mean, most people thought they were over during Bulldozer and look at them now. Shipping RGB stock fans with their excellent and cheap high core Fount consumer chips. I hope their dark days of Bulldozer and rebranding last years' cards will be well behind them soon.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 22-08-2018 9:28am

Time will tell...pre ordering is an interesting one for hardware. Problem is if you dont pre order the chances of getting a car in the next 6 months is limited. Then you get one and 9 months later your card is no longer the state of the art. With games there is no supply issue, so pre ordering is silly till you see if the game is good. With hardware is it a gamble worth taking? Your existing card is at it most valuable second hand today...so I feel if you ride the upgrade train Pre ordering for RTX is the only way to have some time untill the next thing comes along.

Dcully · 22-08-2018 9:48am

Im all for innovation and new tech i love it im a nerd like that.
Ray tracing looks great but there is no way in hell i would sacrifice high framerate for such an effect or indeed any effect in multiplayer or single player for that matter, frame rate is king for me in akll games and genres.
Right now im still on a gtx970 and and i5 2500K on a 1440 monitor and most games are achieving 100fps then you have a few games i need to turn down visuals to get a solid 90+ fps, my point is as i said for me its frames before everything else, even low settings look great at 1440 anyways and ultra settings really only shine on a 4k display anyways.

Im planning a new build very soon, i was waiting on this nvidia announcement first so im really in limbo right now trying to decide.
The gamesn article with framerate as low as 35 fps at 1080 is shocking , yeah i know drivers optimization etec etc but come on guys 35fps at 1080 for a €1200 GPU is very alarming, no amount of optimizing or drivers will bring that it close to my desired 90fps [minimum] at 1440 if its struggling to achieve 40fps at 1080?

If these cards delivered performance where one was guaranteed 144fps @ 1440 with ray tracing i would buy, not to mention a lot of people were hoping to move on to 4k 144hz with these new cards.
Seems to me this kind of performance[with ray tracing] is a long way off.
Its as if nvidia said lets just get it out there and show off this tech and hope the sheep will buy into it.

Dcully · 22-08-2018 9:53am

I wonder if this guy is lurking in here somewhere

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MIwDY0-C2o

TerrorFirmer · 22-08-2018 10:14am

keffiyeh wrote: »

They can compete with xx80 non-ti's, they've shown that.

In benchmarks independent of other factors maybe, but otherwise no. They were priced out of the running (and I don't mean just because of crypto demands, the base RRP was too high, even during that AMD subsidized 'promo' period)

Then you've other factors like much heavier power demands.

At least now Vega 64 is dropping some places to €500-550, which is decent considering it's better than the 1080 but it's a bit late in the day now.

RX580's a great card though. In many ways it's amazing they're doing as well as they are with such small resources compared to Nvidia or Intel.

jebidiah · 22-08-2018 10:20am

I think this is similar to 4k gaming. It's not 100% there yet. Not for the mainstream gamer. Some will adopt it early some won't. And we will all have to listen them argue. It remains to be seen if the new cards are significantly better than the current gen with ray tracing off. I'd expect them to be able to do 4k and higher frame rates maybe bringing that resolution closer to the main stream.

22-08-2018 10:25am

Presumably HardwareCanucks will be giving the lowdown on performance difference today or tomorrow from what they mentioned in their latest video.

keffiyeh · 22-08-2018 10:28am

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

In benchmarks independent of other factors maybe, but otherwise no. They were priced out of the running (and I don't mean just because of crypto demands, the base RRP was too high, even during that AMD subsidized 'promo' period)

Then you've other factors like much heavier power demands.

At least now Vega 64 is dropping some places to €500-550, which is decent considering it's better than the 1080 but it's a bit late in the day now.

RX580's a great card though. In many ways it's amazing they're doing as well as they are with such small resources compared to Nvidia or Intel.

Benchmarks / performance is what I was talking about, of course.

Blazer · 22-08-2018 11:13am

Dcully wrote: »

Im planning a new build very soon, i was waiting on this nvidia announcement first so im really in limbo right now trying to decide.

Yep it will be a good time to pick up a 1080ti for cheap.
I picked up a brand new one for my 18 month old 1080 plus €250 off a mate as the white card didn’t suit his pc. Fantastic card and a great upgrade.
I had paid €500 for my 1080 as the ti launches were just around the corner and prices had dropped.

Dcully · 22-08-2018 12:20pm

It wasn't 1080p, it was 4k like all of the game demos there. A brand new unreleased game on a brand new graphics architecture and it was a tech demo thrown together and not optimised for high frames. People are reading far too much into this.

The pcgames article states 1080p on their hands on.

to quote them "IT’S TOUGH NOT TO BE CONCERNED WHEN THE ULTRA EXPENSIVE, ULTRA ENTHUSIAST RTX 2080 TI ISN’T ABLE TO HIT 60FPS AT 1080P SETTINGS"

BloodBath · 22-08-2018 12:43pm

The thing is there is only partial ray tracing going on and you can choose what to use ray tracing for and what not. I'll have to see what the RTX integration is like on UE4 but it's not out yet. It's coming in the next version.

It's still heavily rasterised. You can use the tensor core for super sampling AA and/or high quality up-scaling while using the RT core for whatever traces you want to do.

The amount of calculations you can do on the new card has skyrocketed compared to the 10 series. It's too early for most people to get excited about as it's going to take time to really see the results of what these things can do. I get that, but there is no doubt in my mind that this a huge leap forward that is the new standard in gpu design.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 22-08-2018 12:57pm

Wonder will 3dmark bring out a ray trace benchmark?

Blazer · 22-08-2018 1:07pm

[
Also the 1080 series was a lot faster in VR than the previous series. At least 3 times I recall and it didn’t make a difference.
While ray tracing will be the future of gaming there’s no way it will be achieved fully in the 2080 series.
Will be at least gen2 or gen3 for it to be fully onboard with respectable fps at 4K.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 22-08-2018 2:57pm

Pre-orders pretty much sold out everywhere on the 2080 and 2080 ti, so likely this is going to be a success for Nvidia. Lot of chatter online about it. Most moderates want to see the benchmarks before making a decision, lot of people getting irate about it because this first gen card is going to be some first gen ****. Everyone agrees its a bit pricey and that games will likely be unoptimised at launch. Every seems to agree these will be the fastest available cards for a while and will offer good 4k single card performance in upcoming games. New SLI link technology too, interesting as I though Nvidia were really phasing this out. Ray tracing seems something that would scale well with SLI.

I actually have a Phsyx accelerator card, that was sooo cool at the time.

Dcully · 22-08-2018 3:23pm

Interesting discussion here, @ 20:10 sums it up for me in a nutshell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLIgfT04wsY

keffiyeh · 22-08-2018 3:27pm

Dcully wrote: »

Interesting discussion here

You can always trust on Richard and John to be some of the only voices worth listening to on gaming. Extremely experienced and knowledgeable guys.

Dcully · 22-08-2018 3:36pm

keffiyeh wrote: »

You can always trust on Richard and John to be some of the only voices worth listening to on gaming. Extremely experienced and knowledgeable guys.

The chap with the glasses in particular is always very good and informative.

keffiyeh · 22-08-2018 3:51pm

Dcully wrote: »

The chap with the glasses in particular is always very good and informative.

Both of them wear glasses :P Richard has been writing for gaming magazines for donkey's years, not sure what John's deal specifically is but he is also extremely knowledgeable too. I love his DF Retro series. DF is one of the best gaming channels on youtube and it and the Retro series are only possible because of their knowledge and complete impartiality when it comes to platforms. Top lads the both of them and I'd love to talk games over a pint with them sometime

Dcully · 22-08-2018 3:58pm

Meant the chap on the left with glasses sorry, maybe i should put my glasses on.

keffiyeh · 22-08-2018 4:13pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Considering that consoles might not even have the option for ray tracing, I believe calling them "peasants" is now accurate. :pac:

Jesus ****ing Christ. Is there ANY moderation on this subforum?

Solitaire · 22-08-2018 4:51pm

keffiyeh wrote: »

Jesus ****ing Christ. Is there ANY moderation on this subforum?

Yup.

keffiyeh and Bloodbath banned for three days.

Ghost and fitzgeme, you are very close to the edge yourselves.

Thread sanitized. Sorry if anything actually relevant got purged, though I doubt it.

As a note to other forumgoers, no, its not acceptable behaviour to retaliate against flamebait because then you've taken it. The amount of personal abuse both obvious and implied was wholly unacceptable, as was the overall thread derailment - one page of the thread was literally 80% sh!tposts. And a final note: the PCMR/mustard racer jokes are only acceptable when they are used as such. When they start being used for real to claim some sort of moral or sh!tpost high ground or insult other users it stops being a joke and starts being personal abuse and incitement with the appropriate consequences. If it gets too much I will end up having to ban all PCMR-related jokes from the forum entirely.

If this thread gets derailed again it will most likely be closed and a three-day timeout on the subject matter put in place.

Solitaire · 22-08-2018 5:27pm

...just ...why?

Blazer banned for three days

I appear to have not made myself explicit enough: No more derailing this topic for the sake of exclusion, elitism or personal attack nor will this behaviour be tolerated on any thread here.

We've just had three people banned within three hours for the above in a forum that can go without anyone being banned for three years.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 22-08-2018 5:48pm

A lot of the worries about poor performance addressed here,3:15. It seems a lot of people are sore about the pricing and the implied obsolescence of the card in their machine and a feeling that Nvidia are forcing an upgrade. I think and its driving some anger with short sighted enthusiasts...

Samuel T. Cogley · 22-08-2018 6:09pm

Genevieve Disgusting Self-improvement wrote: »

A lot of the worries about poor performance addressed here,3:15. It seems a lot of people are sore about the pricing and the implied obsolescence of the card in their machine and a feeling that Nvidia are forcing an upgrade. I think and its driving some anger with short sighted enthusiasts...

That was a bit of a fluff piece really!

Mr Crispy · 22-08-2018 6:13pm

The RE2 remake has been announced as another RTX supported title.

.G. · 22-08-2018 7:10pm

They've released some performance numbers

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-releases-performance-metrics-and-some-info-on-dlss.html

Venom · 22-08-2018 7:10pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

That was a bit of a fluff piece really!

I think that's all we're going to be getting for the next month until the various reviews come out on these cards performance in real-world gaming.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 22-08-2018 8:06pm

superg wrote: »

They've released some performance numbers

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-releases-performance-metrics-and-some-info-on-dlss.html

Better figures than I was expecting. 1.5x in some titles is better than the 980 to 1080 bump, I am sure the final figures will be more nuanced. DLSS looks super interesting

K.O.Kiki · 22-08-2018 8:56pm

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

The RE2 remake has been announced as another RTX supported title.

Oh god, and I had trouble starting up REmake as its atmosphere was heavy enough already!

Also I have to give props to Nvidia; that FE card is sexy AF

EoinHef · 22-08-2018 9:05pm

Looking forward to TTL's review of these cards,givin how the launch has gone and the pricing of the cards id imagine he will be throughly reviewing whats on offer. Most likely the 2070 would be where my interest lies. Ill have my slippers on,cup of tea and a few biscuits for that one:D

Had a look at the demos that are knocking about this morning,while RT obviously is really nice looking i dont think for me personally its worth the premium the 2080/2080 ti will cost.

Was never a major early adopter anyway so further down the line when its a bit more mainstream would probably be when id be more interested.

.G. · 22-08-2018 9:07pm

Genevieve Disgusting Self-improvement wrote: »

Better figures than I was expecting. 1.5x in some titles is better than the 980 to 1080 bump, I am sure the final figures will be more nuanced. DLSS looks super interesting

It does, really can't wait to see opinions when reviewers get their hands on the various iterations and properly put them through their paces. Hopefully the embargo lifts soon too.

Mr Crispy · 22-08-2018 9:10pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Oh god, and I had trouble starting up REmake as its atmosphere was heavy enough already!

Also I have to give props to Nvidia; that FE card is sexy AF

Yeah, it's a far nicer looking card than most of the AIB boards I've seen so far. The EVGAs in particular are a big step down from their 10 series stuff. If you're into GPU aesthetics of course

Mr Crispy · 22-08-2018 9:48pm

Ansel for RTX announced.

ginger_hammer · 22-08-2018 9:51pm

Some more demos here
https://hothardware.com/news/battlefield-5-mechwarrior-5-live-gameplay-nvidia-rtx-real-time-ray-tracing

Looks decent with the v2 bomb going down on the vid at 3:45

Mr Crispy · 22-08-2018 11:00pm

Reviews on September 14th, according to VideoCardz.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 23-08-2018 9:17am

Gosh its gone quiet on the negative front since the performance figures came out. Jayztwocents had a great video on the backlash there. His take on the pricing is that the fiasco over the previous titan Xp has Nvidia calling the Titan the Ti now, the titan is moved into the professional space. So titans were always 1200 usd. However if that is the case then the benchmarks should show 1080ti versus 2080 not non ti to non ti so I am still a touch dubious.

I ordered a EVGA card the XC2 Ultra and agree that the aesthetics are questionable. I just like Evga cards over the years. No FTW cards available.

Edit I see the IPC shader performance chart is out...again an Nvidia chart, oh mwy gawd da Hype....

NVIDIA-Turing-vs-Pascal-Shader-Performance-1000x512.jpg

NVIDIA-Turing-vs-Pascal-Shader-Performance-1000x512.jpg

Nedved85 · 23-08-2018 10:13am

€1300 for the EVGA cards is pretty steep!

Think I'll wait on the sidelines for now and see how the reviews go.

Dcully · 23-08-2018 12:08pm

Gosh its gone quiet on the negative front since the performance figures came out

You make it sound like we are disappointed IF those performance figures are true.
They are best case scenario marketing figures , ill wait for the real figures thanks.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 23-08-2018 12:30pm

Dcully wrote: »

You make it sound like we are disappointed IF those performance figures are true.
They are best case scenario marketing figures , ill wait for the real figures thanks.

Thats defo the wise decision, but yeah some people are disappointed, The GPU camps are very polarized, and a lot of people really want the early adopters to get stung. People get really offended and salty by people spending that sort of dosh on a card.

Problem is that with a die that size production yield may be an issue, the watch and wait camp may be half way into its life cycle before cards become widely available. Preorders are saturated, so even on release the late- early adopters are going to find it hard get cards, I doubt there will be volume near RRP until Feb/March 2019. Lack of card will drive prices up.

With cars people pre order all the time. Fan of a brand or model often buy a car well before known how it drives, nobody looses their minds about that

Icyseanfitz · 23-08-2018 1:09pm

i think its really silly to preorder one of these before having any non biased reviews of performance in rasterization compared to pascal. To me its a massive red flag that nvidias entire conference avoided just that issue.

Also watched the new jay2cents video on pricing and how its a good thing, in essence he is saying nvidia had just renamed the titan to 2080ti to avoid making it confusing and make the whole linup simpler from the start. Does he really think nvidia wont release a 2*** titan for €2000 and then a 2080ti^2 at €1200 if AMD/Intel do nothing over the next year or two.

I am personally excited to see the real world benchmarks on these cards but the prices are nuts, And i would consider myself an enthusiast when it comes to spending on pc hardware, have a lovely 1080ti that broke my previous limit "how much im willing to spend on a single component", no way in hell im spending 1200 or up on a gpu though. The problem is these 2080ti's probably will sell out everywhere and at the crazy prices, which will then lead nvidia to price the next generation way up again and again.

Cuddlesworth · 23-08-2018 1:12pm

When the 8800gt was released, Nvidia made a huge deal about Shader Model 4.0, how they were the first for this new Directx 10 API and how it was going to revitalise the industry. By the time game engines used Shader model 4.0, most 8800's were sitting in dumps. This stands out in my head because I knew people at the time who chose the Nvidia card simply because of that.

When DX10, DX11 and DX12 were released it was such a big deal to get those cards out to work with the new API. Well(and this happend for dx10 and dx11 as well), lets see that big list of properly implemented DX12 games 3 years on? The 40-50% performance improvements for the same graphics? Where are the Multiadapter supported games for multi-gpu? Where are the riches that DX12 would bring to the market. What I see are benchmarks of a handful of AAA titles, in which you have to turn on DX12, that sometimes have better results and sometimes have worse. Most games still claim the DX12 mode is in beta.

I get it, ray tracing is the "next" big thing and nvida have timed hardware support in tandem with the API's support. Outside of a few paid off publishers doing game reworks to bodge it in, actual proper ray tracing in games will be a generation away. In the meantime, Nvidia will push out a handful of titles done with Crapworks code to make Ray tracing on AMD look bad and market the **** out of it. Meanwhile, its not available on 90% of the actual discrete graphics market, which right now is pretty much the 580 and the 1060 or older cards, or this generation since Nvidia have linked it to the high end. So for the majority of PC gamers, ray tracing means nothing.

In the meantime, for those with money to burn or don't care about what happens when dirty marketing tricks remove the last competitor in the market....

Nvidia RTX Discussion

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