Revocation of citizenship acquired through naturalisation

1hnr79jr65 · 02-08-2020 12:32pm

Bob24 wrote: »

1) This is already allowed by Ireland, so what you describe is the current situation.
2) Ireland can’t force them to retain it though, especially if their previous country of citizenship doesn’t allow dual-citizenship.

So there is no way to ensure all naturalised citizens retain a second citizenship.

I am talking about not changing the law to make them revoke old citizenship. However i should have expanded that a treaty document should be drawn up to return people to their own country for such crimes if citizenship removed here regardless if they rescind their own nationality.

padser · 02-08-2020 12:49pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

On the topic of race in prison, I am really clueless so I did some digging and I was quick shocked. There disportionate racial make up in prisons for a long time. In 2008 there was 750 out of a total of 10,900. This seems massively over representative. It seems to gotten more equal in recent years.

Just so I understand what you find shocking (I have a suspicion but just to be sure). Are you saying

1) "It's absolutely shocking that racial minorities are disproportionately more likely to be involved in crime" OR
2) "Racial minorities are more likely to be imprisoned which proves Irish justice system is systematically racist"

Yellow_Fern · 02-08-2020 12:54pm

1). But also how I have never heard of it. At one stage it was around 7% of inmates but only 1% of the general population. How Africans are younger and most crime is done by young men so that may explain some of it but its pretty baffling.

Bob24 · 02-08-2020 1:21pm

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

I am talking about not changing the law to make them revoke old citizenship. However i should have expanded that a treaty document should be drawn up to return people to their own country for such crimes if citizenship removed here regardless if they rescind their own nationality.

If they have chosen to give-up their previous citizenship or if the other country has taken it away from them, their "own" and only country is Ireland. Why would a former country of citizenship necessarily take them back?

And to be clear, I am not saying it makes them a good citizen for Ireland (making them a citizen in the first place probably wasn’t a great idea); but thinking they have another "own" country which has to take them back is neither the practical nor the legal situation on the ground.

Again, it goes back to understanding (or accepting) that once we issue someone with a certificate of naturalisation, Ireland legally becomes their country in the exact same way as it is for a citizen by birth. Nothing is forcing us to issue such certificate, and instead we could very well issue a permanent residence permit if we wanted to. But once it is issued the person is an Irish citizen like any other.

ExMachina1000 · 02-08-2020 1:39pm

Akesh wrote: »

No, citizenship should not be revoked. However, for crimes such as the one in the OP the person should never get out of prison. The problem is Ireland is a soft touch on crime. Instead of giving violent and sexual predators playstations, gardens, televisions etc. they should be doing long stretches.

What if the person came here illegally in the first place

Bob24 · 02-08-2020 1:50pm

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

What if the person came here illegally in the first place

Then they should never have been granted citizenship.

padser · 02-08-2020 3:49pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

1). But also how I have never heard of it. At one stage it was around 7% of inmates but only 1% of the general population. How Africans are younger and most crime is done by young men so that may explain some of it but its pretty baffling.

It's never really mentioned as its "racist" to talk about how some races have higher crime rates.

02-08-2020 4:42pm

padser wrote: »

It's never really mentioned as its "racist" to talk about how some races have higher crime rates.

It's less about race and more to do with socio-economic factors. Africans coming to Western countries typically don't have the same level/quality of education (fake qualifications being common, or universities being inadequately funded) as those in the target nation, so they end up working at lower end jobs. Lower end jobs means having a lower income and so it brings about an inequality on a social level.

However, we have so many NGOs and organisations talking about "equality" for migrants irrespective of the harsher realities of life, such as eligibility for employment and other concerns. So, migrants are told that they should receive the same standard of living as the native groups, simply because they're in the same country. And since they don't receive that same standard of living, then it must be connected with discrimination, which leads to anger or apathy towards the system, so, encouraging many of them towards making up the difference with crime. (or expressing their anger through violence)

There's also the problem that values are not universal, and they weren't brought up under the same laws (or perspective of what the law represents) as westerners. So, often, they'll have less respect for western laws, because in their original nations, cops are untrustworthy, and the law is 'flexible'. Different application of laws depending on which group they belong to, as a result of corruption. Which leads to breaking western laws/conventions simply because their own experience tells them that's what people do.

Just because people migrate to Europe, doesn't mean that they've embraced western culture/laws/values/perspectives.

Citizenship shouldn't be awarded to people who haven't shown that they understand/accept the world they're choosing to reside in. There should be a "parole" or trial period prior to full citizenship, so that they can show they've accepted the western way of living. Too many people seem to think that western values are common worldwide... they're not.. and we shouldn't be assuming that people appreciate these values just because they've arrived on our shores looking for entry.

As for revoking citizenship, it should be there as a final resort. Since we've done away with capital punishment, then exile is a fairly decent alternative... I'd be perfectly happy if people disqualified this way, were housed in a foreign prison, at the same cost that we provide for an Irish citizen. They serve their sentence, and afterwards, are banned for life from returning to Ireland/EU.

mr_fegelien · 02-08-2020 4:46pm

If someone were to become an Irish citizen, renounce the citizenship of their old counry and then commit a crime, could they be deported?

Overheal · 02-08-2020 5:37pm

mr_fegelien wrote: »

If someone were to become an Irish citizen, renounce the citizenship of their old counry and then commit a crime, could they be deported?

No international law you can’t make someone stateless.

Overheal · 02-08-2020 5:38pm

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

Thats the great thing about free thought and opinion, i disagree with your view and feel strongly about what i have debated. You and others are of course free to agree or disagree with me.

From the practical side of things, well as i said i have no sympathy for people who commit such scummy crimes, however if they not born here then they should have no right to reside here if they committed such crimes.

We all know our justice system is not going to be reformed any time soon or even far away.

Indeed I think the disagreements here have been healthy and this is a great discussion thread.

Zebra3 · 02-08-2020 6:37pm

Irish passports should be purely for Irish people.

I've worked abroad on a visa and never felt entitled to anything in that country.

Non-EUers coming here should be on a visa regardless of who they marry, if they have kids here or make investments. They are here as our guests and if they break the law they have broken the terms of their visa, and they go.

No appeal.

Overheal · 02-08-2020 6:49pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Irish passports should be purely for Irish people.

I've worked abroad on a visa and never felt entitled to anything in that country.

Non-EUers coming here should be on a visa regardless of who they marry, if they have kids here or make investments. They are here as our guests and if they break the law they have broken the terms of their visa, and they go.

No appeal.

So no naturalization process whatsoever, no avenue for anyone not born Irish to earn Irish citizenship?

Zebra3 · 02-08-2020 6:52pm

Overheal wrote: »

So no naturalization process whatsoever, no avenue for anyone not born Irish to earn Irish citizenship?

People with an Irish parent or grandparent currently have the right to Irish citizenship and of course that should remain.

Why should somebody be able to "earn" Irish citizenship?

Wibbs · 02-08-2020 6:55pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Why should somebody be able to "earn" Irish citizenship?

Indeed. This is not America, or Canada or any other ex European colony founded and sustained by earning citizenship, though it seems to bear much repeating as it's being constantly applied to non colonies in Europe. Good luck in trying to get a Chinese passport, or Japanese, or Korean and they're dead right.

Gatling · 02-08-2020 7:13pm

Overheal wrote: »

So no naturalization process whatsoever, no avenue for anyone not born Irish to earn Irish citizenship?

Citizenship isn't a competition it's not there to be won ,

As it is anyone can walk into this country and claim asylum be denied a few years later they are still here and then be allowed to apply for and get citizenship with next to no background checks and no way to stop dangerous criminals .

It's one way win for the foreign Nationalities coming to abuse our generous over welcoming government and people.

The argument is well other countries give out citizenships so we should too , but other countries deport foreign criminals but no we can't do that were different

Overheal · 02-08-2020 7:19pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed. This is not America, or Canada or any other ex European colony founded and sustained by earning citizenship, though it seems to bear much repeating as it's being constantly applied to non colonies in Europe. Good luck in trying to get a Chinese passport, or Japanese, or Korean and they're dead right.

And that’s a fine position for Ireland to take but it must go on to assert that.

Wibbs · 02-08-2020 7:45pm

Overheal wrote: »

And that’s a fine position for Ireland to take but it must go on to assert that.

We should and to a large degree we have. The removal of the loophole that led to birth passports(in which we were an outlier in Europe and pretty much everywhere else) by an overwhelming majority of the electorate was one indication. That damned near 99% of individuals applying to get in here now from the same nations that made up the 90's and early noughties influx are rejected another example. Sadly IMHO the gate was closed a little too late and we're going to see the problems with that going forward.

Which makes a good launchboard for an argument for reviewing your naturalization process, but that's another matter than denaturalizing for a heinous crime.

What can be given by a nation can and should be open to being taken away. We already do with personal liberty. I do a crime and I get put in gaol(hopefully, though...)

I personally would be right behind revocation of citizenship because of criminal and other anti social behaviour if it were a pattern with an individual, or a heinous crime. Like Klaz pointed out exile was a large part of many judicial systems throughout history and it wouldn't leave anyone stateless because they're not originally from here.

The problem is the West has lost it's spine and self confidence in many ways and is too damned apologetic and Ireland is very much near the top in that regard. Ironically because we weren't an imperial power carving up various parts of the world. The Irish media is very much slanted only one way, which only leaves nutters on facebook and youtube as alternatives. Ditto for our political class, none of whom will have to deal with the issues they lord over and are often looking to their EU position pension parachute, so unless the EU says nay...

The Irish psyche is a mix of servility to the authority de jour and a large helping of shure it'll be grand and yes a general kindness(though very clannish), so unless things are put to them by secret ballot like the birth passports loophole, they'll do largely nothing really. I would bet the farm that today that ballot wouldn't be mentioned and you can be sure no way would the political class risk a ballot on the matter of this thread, because again I'd bet the farm it would pass.

Bob24 · 02-08-2020 7:52pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed. This is not America, or Canada or any other ex European colony founded and sustained by earning citizenship, though it seems to bear much repeating as it's being constantly applied to non colonies in Europe. Good luck in trying to get a Chinese passport, or Japanese, or Korean and they're dead right.

Don’t know about China, but Japan and Korea actually have a naturalisation process.

But the massive differences compared to Ireland are that:
- the criteria are much more stringent
- if you acquire their citizenship, you have to give-up any other citizenship you might have (which I think they are right about, as the idea of pledging allegiance to two different countries at the same time is a fallacy)
- as a consequence of the other 2 points, the numbers of naturalised citizens are massively smaller and they can be fully assimilated (I insist on “assimilated” - i.e. made similar to the rest of the nation, and not just “integrated” - i.e. able to live within the country)

Donald Trump · 02-08-2020 7:56pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Irish passports should be purely for Irish people.

I've worked abroad on a visa and never felt entitled to anything in that country.

Non-EUers coming here should be on a visa regardless of who they marry, if they have kids here or make investments. They are here as our guests and if they break the law they have broken the terms of their visa, and they go.

No appeal.

Marriage is different. You cannot have a clean rule for what you suggest in relation to marriage

Zebra3 · 02-08-2020 8:37pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

Marriage is different. You cannot have a clean rule for what you suggest in relation to marriage

Of course you can.

Nothing to stop the state in doing so.

McGiver · 02-08-2020 11:10pm

Zebra3 wrote:

Nothing to stop the state in doing so.

What do you suggest exactl?

DelaneyIn · 02-08-2020 11:16pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

People with an Irish parent or grandparent currently have the right to Irish citizenship and of course that should remain.

Why should somebody be able to "earn" Irish citizenship?

Should someone who has never lived or worked in Ireland be given citizenship purely as they have one Irish grandparent?

Look at all the British citizens in the U.K. now using us as an European Union passport factory after Brexit? We give it to them for around €127.

DelaneyIn · 02-08-2020 11:19pm

Overheal wrote: »

So no naturalization process whatsoever, no avenue for anyone not born Irish to earn Irish citizenship?

I’d rather no naturalisation process than the current set up. We’ve naturalised lads who went off and joined Isis for a bit of oul head hacking, we have naturalised international drug dealers on the run from Interpol, we have naturalised lads who went on to rape Irish grandmothers etc.

It seems to be a money spinner for the government and a bit of a shambles.

DelaneyIn · 02-08-2020 11:20pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

Marriage is different. You cannot have a clean rule for what you suggest in relation to marriage

We give it to the spouse of an Irish citizen after 36 months residence. No language or civics exam. You just fill in the forms, pay the fee and get the harp on the passport.

No western country has such a lax criteria for being granted citizenship.

Donald Trump · 03-08-2020 12:59am

DelaneyIn wrote: »

We give it to the spouse of an Irish citizen after 36 months residence. No language or civics exam. You just fill in the forms, pay the fee and get the harp on the passport.

No western country has such a lax criteria for being granted citizenship.

I think you might be a little bit wrong there in that conditions for obtaining citizenship through marriage would be broadly similar in most Western Countries.

US is 3 years, UK is 3, France is 4, Spain is 1, Germany is 3 and so on.

But don't let actual facts get in the way of a feeling you might have.

My original point is that you cannot easily talk about deporting an naturalised spouse of a birthright citizen. Are you going to deport the Irish-born partner as well?

Gatling · 03-08-2020 1:13am

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Should someone who has never lived or worked in Ireland be given citizenship purely as they have one Irish grandparent?

Look at all the British citizens in the U.K. now using us as an European Union passport factory after Brexit? We give it to them for around €127.

Actually pre Iraq war (2nd) a lot of British soldiers applied for Irish passports based off grandparents being Irish ,so they could have an Irish passport on them if captured

Donald Trump · 03-08-2020 1:25am

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Should someone who has never lived or worked in Ireland be given citizenship purely as they have one Irish grandparent?

Look at all the British citizens in the U.K. now using us as an European Union passport factory after Brexit? We give it to them for around €127.

I think it can go back further than grandparent. As long as the connection is unbroken (that changed in the 90's too I think ... before that it could have been broken)

ExMachina1000 · 03-08-2020 1:27am

We are akin to the village bicycle. Give us a few drinks and we will give it away for nothing.

Our passport is cheap. I don't mean financially

Donald Trump · 03-08-2020 1:28am

Zebra3 wrote: »

Of course you can.

Nothing to stop the state in doing so.

Tell us your clean rule for doing so?

Bear in mind that when you strip the naturalised spouse and deport them you are going to have to figure out how to deal with the spouse left behind, which you cannot deport, and who have rights!

Bob24 · 03-08-2020 5:50am

DelaneyIn wrote: »

It seems to be a money spinner for the government and a bit of a shambles.

Very much doubt it is about the money. A once of 1000 euros fee per naturalised citizen is very little for a government budget, not to mention that the naturalisation process itself does cost money.

Bob24 · 03-08-2020 5:59am

Donald Trump wrote: »

Tell us your clean rule for doing so?

Bear in mind that when you strip the naturalised spouse and deport them you are going to have to figure out how to deal with the spouse left behind, which you cannot deport, and who have rights!

The OP seems confused when they say “Irish passports should be purely for Irish people.” (sure, but it sounds like a tautology and the OP might miss out on the fact that naturalised citizens are “Irish people”).

But to be fair there is nothing forcing Ireland to naturalise spouses of Irish citizens. They could simply be offered long term resident status if they want to live here.

I don’t know it would be good or bad, I haven’t thought it through, but it is possible.

03-08-2020 9:14am

Bob24 wrote: »

The OP seems confused when they say “Irish passports should be purely for Irish people.” (sure, but it sounds like a tautology and the OP might miss out on the fact that naturalised citizens are “Irish people”).

You said before you weren't sure about China, but you can gain citizenship in China, although it's difficult and few would really want it.

I think few people appreciate that citizenship in Ireland is something that people actually want, as opposed to the many countries out there where citizenship isn't exactly desirable.

For me, a major point is that in most countries where naturalisation can occur, acceptance into that society isn't on the books. If I was be naturalised in China, I would always be considered a foreigner, regardless of my legal status. Whereas in Ireland, by adapting to the way of life, people, for the most part, can be accepted regardless of their skin color.

We really should be holding the "Irish" status as being something valuable.

But to be fair there is nothing forcing Ireland to naturalise spouses of Irish citizens. They could simply be offered long term resident status if they want to live here.

I don’t know it would be good or bad, I haven’t thought it through, but it is possible.

It's very possible.. although there should be avenues for citizenship, but there should also be avenues to remove citizenship dependent on their actions while citizens. If something is given away freely with minimal requirements, then people won't value it. If there is a possibility of it's removal, then people will seek to avoid behavior that results in that removal.

Donald Trump · 03-08-2020 2:13pm

Bob24 wrote: »

The OP seems confused when they say “Irish passports should be purely for Irish people.” (sure, but it sounds like a tautology and the OP might miss out on the fact that naturalised citizens are “Irish people”).

But to be fair there is nothing forcing Ireland to naturalise spouses of Irish citizens. They could simply be offered long term resident status if they want to live here.

I don’t know it would be good or bad, I haven’t thought it through, but it is possible.

That's not really fair though is it? They already have to live here for 3 years. That's long enough with marriage.

What do you do in the case that after a few years a marriage breaks down? It's a fair big lever to hold over someone that you can have them sent back to their own country at your own whim if you are the disaffected Irish partner.

Or if the Irish born spouse dies.

Infini · 03-08-2020 2:18pm

Honestly my opinion of this is that stripping one of their citizenship should only be restricted to a limited set of high level offences, rape and murder (self-defence excluded) being the 2 Primary ones. If they come to pur country looking for asylum and do that they're no longer welcome or worthy of our protection.

03-08-2020 2:29pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

That's not really fair though is it? They already have to live here for 3 years. That's long enough with marriage.

Not sure what fairness has got to do with it. One of the problems these days is the demand to be fair in every circumstance, and so, the whole thing becomes clunky and open to abuse.

I'd be inclined towards the standard 3 years, but there being a probationary period applied for everyone, regardless of their circumstances of ten years. You gain the right to citizenship as an individual (under trial), not connected to the marriage, but during the ten years of probation, you only have residency (which can be revoked should certain crimes or issues occur).

What do you do in the case that after a few years a marriage breaks down? It's a fair big lever to hold over someone that you can have them sent back to their own country at your own whim if you are the disaffected Irish partner.

Hold to the application through marriage, but once the application occurs, then it's an individual application separate to the marriage, with the person being judged as an individual (with all the requirements expected of a potential new citizen). If people are serious about gaining citizenship, they'll jump through the hoops needed to be eligible.

Or if the Irish born spouse dies.

Then, they're married, in which case it's a plus on the application, but still only an aspect of the overall application....

McGiver · 03-08-2020 2:36pm

JasonStatham wrote:

5 years is too short. Most countries rely on 10 years

Link please? What countries?

Most countries in EU in fact do it after 5 years of permanent residency.

Donald Trump · 03-08-2020 2:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Hold to the application through marriage, but once the application occurs, then it's an individual application separate to the marriage, with the person being judged as an individual (with all the requirements expected of a potential new citizen). If people are serious about gaining citizenship, they'll jump through the hoops needed to be eligible.

That's precisely the point. Man meets foreign female, gets married and convinces here to come here and put down roots, maybe have a kid and start building a life here. Then after a few years the man starts battering the woman - "you'll do what you are told bitch or it's back to the shithole you came from with you". Don't think it would never happen. 10 years is too long. It leaves the foreign person too vulnerable.

I've heard of similar second hand stories to the above in the US where people got married and had to put up with absolute wankers to see out their 3 years.

Overheal · 03-08-2020 2:47pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

That's precisely the point. Man meets foreign female, gets married and convinces here to come here and put down roots, maybe have a kid and start building a life here. Then after a few years the man starts battering the woman - "you'll do what you are told bitch or it's back to the shithole you came from with you". Don't think it would never happen. 10 years is too long. It leaves the foreign person too vulnerable.

I've heard of similar second hand stories to the above in the US where people got married and had to put up with absolute wankers to see out their 3 years.

Sure look at the poor First Lady, Melania.

Yurt2 · 03-08-2020 2:53pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed. This is not America, or Canada or any other ex European colony founded and sustained by earning citizenship, though it seems to bear much repeating as it's being constantly applied to non colonies in Europe. Good luck in trying to get a Chinese passport, or Japanese, or Korean and they're dead right.

I've met people who have naturalized as Japanese and South Korean. The process, while more onerous than Ireland (there are language and citizenship test hoops to jump through), is far from impossible. It's less attractive to do so as you have to rescind your own nationality, but some do so for professional or national affinity reasons.

McGiver · 03-08-2020 2:54pm

I'll be honest here. This is a nonsense, illegal and stupid. Largely stems from ignorance of both international and Irish law. Citizenship cannot be removed from someone especially if they lost their original one (many countries don't allow dual citizenship). And even in case of countries which allow dual citizenship the original country would potentially revoke it before deportation would be executed - who wants to handle deported criminals. The only relevant scenarios are terrorism, espionage and treason (war time).

Gatling et al, are just spouting typical nazi/fascist/populist nonsense i.e. proposing easy solutions for complex problems, which sound very appealing to the mob but are completely unrealistic, illegal and impossible to implement unless you morph to any authoritarian system.

And then of course as it has been shown so many times in history it doesn't end with foreigners/Jews/whatever ethnicity or religion the regime targets, then it's gays, then intellectuals, then anyone "weird", and then everyone else who is against the regime. That's how it ends - it's a slippery slope and that's why fascism is dangerous, in the end it turns against everyone.

I'm all for stringent rules, checks and tests for naturalisation candidates. That's a realistic debate to be had unlike the debate about the OPs proposition.

Donald Trump · 03-08-2020 2:55pm

Overheal wrote: »

Sure look at the poor First Lady, Melania.

I should have said "first hand stories"

Overheal · 03-08-2020 2:58pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

I should have said "first hand stories"

The slap heard across the world

03-08-2020 3:03pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

That's precisely the point. Man meets foreign female, gets married and convinces here to come here and put down roots, maybe have a kid and start building a life here. Then after a few years the man starts battering the woman - "you'll do what you are told bitch or it's back to the shithole you came from with you". Don't think it would never happen. 10 years is too long. It leaves the foreign person too vulnerable.

I actually said 3 years as it stands, with a probation period of ten years thereafter based around an individual application not dependent on the actual marriage. Reread what I wrote.

I've heard of similar second hand stories to the above in the US where people got married and had to put up with absolute wankers to see out their 3 years.

And that's the US. In Ireland/Europe, there are heaps of organisations out there to protect the rights of both migrants and women from harm.. along with a series of laws... which are not dependent on being a citizen. If the wife avails herself of those protections, then she's safe, and her application can be processed separate to her life with the husband.

Gatling · 03-08-2020 6:19pm

McGiver wrote: »

Gatling et al, are just spouting typical nazi/fascist/populist nonsense i.e. proposing easy solutions for complex problems, which sound very appealing to the mob but are completely unrealistic, illegal and impossible to implement unless you morph to any authoritarian system.

The usual let's not mention anything unless you can say Racist , facist , Nazism yada yada yada lets keep importing foreign criminals and award them with citizenships because other countries do it .

No let's not it's hasn't worked we've brought scumbags into this country -our country and we cannot send them home because it's complicated - no it's absolutely not complicated ,we Stop dual nationality/citizenship and if foreign nationals commit rape , murder , manslaughter , people trafficking ,drug dealing , welfare fraud then detain and deport at the first possible moment.

This keep giving them more and more might convince them to repent and become good honest citizens is bolloxogy

McGiver · 03-08-2020 7:04pm

Gatling wrote:

The usual let's not mention anything unless you can say Racist , facist , Nazism yada yada yada lets keep importing foreign criminals and award them with citizenships because other countries do it .

First, populist nonsense. Easy solutions for complex problems. And then crown it with a straw man argument.

Nobody said criminals should be imported or that they should be awarded citizenship, you've just made it up.

Gatling · 03-08-2020 7:50pm

McGiver wrote: »

Nobody said criminals should be imported or that they should be awarded citizenship,

This is what is exactly what has been happening for the last 30 odd years there is no checks and balances .
There is no Stringent checks on those arriving here from abroad or those suddenly arriving with no documentation of any kind and a sob story .

This is what is partly causing a rise in the far right in the younger generation across Europe, there seeing it in every country and it will keep increasing till it hits breaking point and then see what happens ,

We've imported murders , rapists ,drug dealers and terrorists and yet we cannot allow their removal because ehhhh , ehhhh complex social issues , imagine what the Nigerian government would do .

Not our problem .

Overheal · 03-08-2020 7:54pm

mr_fegelien wrote: »

If someone were to become an Irish citizen, renounce the citizenship of their old counry and then commit a crime, could they be deported?

No. It would be a human rights violation.

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Pages/Nationality.aspx

edit: damn boards time machine

Overheal · 03-08-2020 7:57pm

Gatling wrote: »

This is what is exactly what has been happening for the last 30 odd years there is no checks and balances .

None at all really? (You do yourself a disservice with misleading exaggerations)

There is no Stringent checks on those arriving here from abroad or those suddenly arriving with no documentation of any kind and a sob story .

This is what is partly causing a rise in the far right in the younger generation across Europe, there seeing it in every country and it will keep increasing till it hits breaking point and then see what happens ,

We've imported murders , rapists ,drug dealers and terrorists and yet we cannot allow their removal because ehhhh , ehhhh complex social issues , imagine what the Nigerian government would do .

Not our problem .

It is your problem if you grant them Irish citizenship. I'd be frankly amazed however if your strawman was correct, and the state was indeed naturalizing people with a record of murder, rape, drug dealing and terrorism and just going 'ah sure what can you do' and handing them a passport.

Gatling · 03-08-2020 8:19pm

Overheal wrote: »

None at all really? (You do yourself a disservice with misleading exaggerations)

It is your problem if you grant them Irish citizenship. I'd be frankly amazed however if your strawman was correct, and the state was indeed naturalizing people with a record of murder, rape, drug dealing and terrorism and just going 'ah sure what can you do' and handing them a passport.

This is happening

Well known rape case here involving a eirtean student who came here on a student visa ,he viscously raped a young student here ,he tried to attack the judge at his trial he was convicted of rape and was supposed to be deported guess what he was granted asylum and is still here despite the fact experts saying he's dangerous and Will rape again .

Conviction for rape here gets asylum which gets him citizenship .

The government are scared of being labeled as racist and ignoring the problem

Have a look at the terrorist Ali Charaf Damache fight to keep his Irish citizenship

Revocation of citizenship acquired through naturalisation

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