Waterford University discussion

invara · 16-09-2019 12:09pm

Movement on the new building, planning permission is being sought- Yipppieee!
https://www.waterfordchamber.ie/waterford/waterford-news/1272-multi-million-euro-building-for-waterford-institute-of-technology-reaches-planning-stages

Of course, followers of this board will take the sign sceptically. Good news to be sure, there are plenty of drawers in WIT filled with drawings of unbuilt plans. It would be good to be looking a giant hole in the ground, white vans with breakfast roll wrappers stuffed into the front of the window, and some actual construction activity. I dream of trying to teach over the sound of a kango hammer- a sound not heard in these parts for an entire economic boom and bust cycle.

imacman · 20-09-2019 1:44pm

News of the government bail out of ITTralee this week
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/government-gives-5m-in-emergency-funding-to-keep-it-tralee-afloat-1.4021249

ITtralee looks like its unsustainable in the long term and CIT and the people of Cork must be questioning why CIT would have to take on this millstone of an institute that will drag them down and decimate their finances which are currently in the black. Is the mumbo jumbo TU status worth that sacrifice.

JaCrispy · 23-09-2019 8:00am

imacman wrote: »

News of the government bail out of ITTralee this week
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/government-gives-5m-in-emergency-funding-to-keep-it-tralee-afloat-1.4021249

ITtralee looks like its unsustainable in the long term and CIT and the people of Cork must be questioning why CIT would have to take on this millstone of an institute that will drag them down and decimate their finances which are currently in the black. Is the mumbo jumbo TU status worth that sacrifice.

Oh the irony

vriesmays · 29-09-2019 1:57pm

More publicity:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/female-lecturer-sexually-harassed-by-male-students-38539274.html

Johnboy1951 · 29-09-2019 3:56pm

vriesmays wrote: »

More publicity:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/female-lecturer-sexually-harassed-by-male-students-38539274.html

Why were these students not booted from WIT?
That would surely have stopped it!

I fail to understand how it continued after the lecturer made an official complaint.

imacman · 29-09-2019 9:46pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Why were these students not booted from WIT?
That would surely have stopped it!

I fail to understand how it continued after the lecturer made an official complaint.

If you read the story the lecturer couldn't identify the offending students when the disciplinary process started

Johnboy1951 · 29-09-2019 11:43pm

imacman wrote: »

If you read the story the lecturer couldn't identify the offending students when the disciplinary process started

I did read the story!

Would you care to quote from it where it stated that?

I certainly did not see it there.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/female-lecturer-sexually-harassed-by-male-students-38539274.html

Steve456 · 30-09-2019 6:14am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I certainly did not see it there.

There's a bit more detail in the court's determination.

imacman · 30-09-2019 8:48am

From the case file

On 10thOctober 2014 she notified the Respondent that she had been sexually harassed by a large group of male students in her assigned class. She said that she had been asked explicitly, coarse sexual questions and, in addition, various disgusting and explicit comments were made about male genitalia. On that same date she outlined that she was also the subject of general harassment and disruption by a large number of male students. She was not able to identify the individuals involved.

On 15thOctober 2014 the course leaders spoke to the three courses and confirmed that the sexual harassment had occurred. The course leaders were not asked to investigate further or to monitor the situation.

On 24thOctober 2014 she was again sexually harassed and the form of the harassment involvedthestudents blurting out inappropriate sexual references and sexual language including coarse words referring to parts of a woman’s body; references to sexual acts and comments about how the male students ‘would do her’. She informed the Head of Department of this experience and advised her that the behaviour had the purpose and effect of violating her dignity and creating an intimidating and hostile working environment. The Appellant was able to identify one male student who had engaged in disruptive behaviour to the Head of Department although she could not identify him as a perpetrator of sexual harassment or harassment based on her gender.

Although the Head of Department spoke to the male student and informed him that she was sending him to the Student Disciplinary Committee, the disruption and harassment continued

Wanderer78 · 30-09-2019 9:03am

imacman wrote: »

From the case file

On 10thOctober 2014 she notified the Respondent that she had been sexually harassed by a large group of male students in her assigned class. She said that she had been asked explicitly, coarse sexual questions and, in addition, various disgusting and explicit comments were made about male genitalia. On that same date she outlined that she was also the subject of general harassment and disruption by a large number of male students. She was not able to identify the individuals involved.

On 15thOctober 2014 the course leaders spoke to the three courses and confirmed that the sexual harassment had occurred. The course leaders were not asked to investigate further or to monitor the situation.

On 24thOctober 2014 she was again sexually harassed and the form of the harassment involvedthestudents blurting out inappropriate sexual references and sexual language including coarse words referring to parts of a woman’s body; references to sexual acts and comments about how the male students ‘would do her’. She informed the Head of Department of this experience and advised her that the behaviour had the purpose and effect of violating her dignity and creating an intimidating and hostile working environment. The Appellant was able to identify one male student who had engaged in disruptive behaviour to the Head of Department although she could not identify him as a perpetrator of sexual harassment or harassment based on her gender.

Although the Head of Department spoke to the male student and informed him that she was sending him to the Student Disciplinary Committee, the disruption and harassment continued

jesus thats an awful situation to be in, in a working environment, im glad it got pushed to court now

Johnboy1951 · 30-09-2019 10:37am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

jesus thats an awful situation to be in, in a working environment, im glad it got pushed to court now

+1

I would hope that some recording of the events could have taken place.
If so it might have been used to identify the main perpetrators.

It does look like a serious lack of action on behalf of WIT to stop this.

Muttley79 · 01-11-2019 8:46pm

University of Limerick to create 330 new jobs under new plan https://jrnl.ie/4874886
No shortage of money been thrown at university limerick an extra 4000 students over five years,an extra 300 jobs created and worth 30 million euro to the local economy.we really are getting shafted in waterford

DLS_75 · 01-11-2019 8:48pm

And what’s the president of WIT doing about it?

road_high · 01-11-2019 8:55pm

Muttley79 wrote: »

University of Limerick to create 330 new jobs under new plan https://jrnl.ie/4874886
No shortage of money been thrown at university limerick an extra 4000 students over five years,an extra 300 jobs created and worth 30 million euro to the local economy.we really are getting shafted in waterford

It’s really annoying- they have so many facilities in the west and south that the state continually lavishes on them- there’s already numerous ITs and cork Galway unis within a stones throw- there’s no way this should get the nod before the south east with 0 university gets sorted. Limerick played the poor mouth to the limit during the recession (a west of Ireland gift that they have) and the government flowed in like water. Statistically it’s the third wealthiest county in the ROI now. The 4 South east counties usually scrape the bottom- the haves and have nots basically.
They also they have way underused airports because the parish pumps all needed one each despite not having big enough catchment areas to warrant that level of investment- god forbid they’d have to share

road_high · 01-11-2019 9:44pm

Can some-one explain to me why Cork, Limerick, Galway all warrant IT's as well as full universities? Not to mention IT's in the respective regional towns of Tralee, Athlone and Sligo? Can the poor little darlings out west/south not cope with any restriction of choice? These should be merged (i.e. I mean rationalised) and ceetainly not put on the same level as a Waterford/Carlow IT merger would be - no doubt they'd be up in arms screaming Apartheid though

Max Powers · 01-11-2019 10:49pm

DLS_75 wrote: »

And what’s the president of WIT doing about it?

What can he do with no money, no government support, the opposite in fact

DLS_75 · 01-11-2019 10:55pm

Max Powers wrote: »

What can he do with no money, no government support, the opposite in fact

He needs to speak up for his college.

DLS_75 · 01-11-2019 10:56pm

Mind you, I’ve seen what they do to presidents who attempt to speak up for the college so maybe I understand his silence

road_high · 01-11-2019 11:47pm

DLS_75 wrote: »

Mind you, I’ve seen what they do to presidents who attempt to speak up for the college so maybe I understand his silence

Your man down in Limerick was never off the airwaves- did they no harm. They need to be well in with the political establishment

Max Powers · 03-11-2019 1:48pm

road_high wrote: »

Your man down in Limerick was never off the airwaves- did they no harm. They need to be well in with the political establishment

Limerick had noonan buying that site for UL, about 20 to 30 million.they are still benefiting from his actions. If we had someone in government, we and WIT would be in better shape. All the shouting on airwaves achieves nothing, look at halligan and others, great talkers, nothing else.

azimuth17 · 03-11-2019 1:59pm

DLS_75 wrote: »

And what’s the president of WIT doing about it?

Nothing, because he is under the thumb of the Higher Education Authority. Did invara or imacman not explain on this forum that a university is an independent corporate body that can borrow money without reference to anyone (from the EIB for example) but that WIT is completely dependent on the HEA and Department of Education for permission to buy even a toilet roll. Easy in those circumstances fro Dr Ed Walsh, former head of UL, to be on the airwaves. Look what happened to Prof Kieran Byrne when local idiots as well as national opposition were finished destroying him.

If WIT was a university it could have and would have bought the Glass site without even thinking about it, but in a situation where WIT budget has been cut 25% in recent years it is being treated like a rural primary school and our local politicos tolerate it. I wonder do they even know what's going on at all?

imacman · 05-11-2019 3:38pm

Spot on, WIT is complete dependant on the Dept for funding and the amount of money they receive is based on their student numbers , Institutes of Technology have no other form of funding available to them.
WIT is in a difficult position when it comes to cash flow as 88% of the funding goes out on staff wages and strong unions have got very favorable terms for staff in WIT over the years.

In contrast the pay levels in ITCarlow are much lower and that is where they have found the money to expand over the last 10 years . The problem for ITC is that if there is to be a merger their staff ( mainly academics) will want to match the terms of their compatriots in WIT. As reported in the Indo a few months ago that will immediately put ITC into 3 million a year decifit which will continue to grow. The management in ITC dont want to see their nice surplus disappear in the wages of staff thats why the MOU which didn't offer matching terms was rejected by Carlow academics at the start of the summer . So the IR issues and finance's are the rock that the TUSEI may perish on yet.

And the irony is of course even if the TU happens it wont have the same borrowing powers as the universities and continue to depend on student numbers for funding.Meanwhile UL are spending 180 million on the new city cenre campus , Trinity are spending 230 million on a new campus in grand canel dock , NUIG are spending 80 million on new student commendation and 50 million on new buildings , UCD spending 100 million on a new entrance and plaza buildings, all of these funding by the European investment bank and donations. The ITs and TUs will never be able to access that kind of development money and remain dependent on government handouts.

azimuth17 wrote: »

Nothing, because he is under the thumb of the Higher Education Authority. Did invara or imacman not explain on this forum that a university is an independent corporate body that can borrow money without reference to anyone (from the EIB for example) but that WIT is completely dependent on the HEA and Department of Education for permission to buy even a toilet roll. Easy in those circumstances fro Dr Ed Walsh, former head of UL, to be on the airwaves. Look what happened to Prof Kieran Byrne when local idiots as well as national opposition were finished destroying him.

If WIT was a university it could have and would have bought the Glass site without even thinking about it, but in a situation where WIT budget has been cut 25% in recent years it is being treated like a rural primary school and our local politicos tolerate it. I wonder do they even know what's going on at all?

hardybuck · 05-11-2019 4:17pm

These institutions have a huge amount of autonomy - which is reflected in the fact that so many different local arrangements for pay and expenditure exist. The PAC has reviewed dozens of high profile incidents of inappropriate spending, including some in WIT.

It's actually become apparent that the HEA hasn't had enough powers to hold third level institutions to account for their actions, which has led to calls for the closing of gaps in legislation to allow them to do so.

This will come as a culture shock to the institutions, as many of them have been self governing for hundreds of years, and there will need to be measures put in place to avoid micro-managing the sector.

Separately, I heard that Carlow has been doing really well in recent years from postgraduate and executive education. I understand that Carlow has quite similar student numbers, and you can see how they'd be reluctant to merge with WIT if they're about the same size and have a tight business model.

Glenomra · 05-11-2019 4:32pm

Ed Walsh gave limerick a 'jump start' through using his own initiative and tapping into philanthropists like Chuck Feeney - over 100, 000,000 from one benefactor alone!!!!!! Just wondering what have the Waterford presidents got. And if they haven't then why not.

Glenomra · 05-11-2019 4:36pm

Max Powers wrote: »

Limerick had noonan buying that site for UL, about 20 to 30 million.they are still benefiting from his actions. If we had someone in government, we and WIT would be in better shape. All the shouting on airwaves achieves nothing, look at halligan and others, great talkers, nothing else.

Good point and not alone did Michael Noonan help with the university site but also the site, for the proposed Opera Centre -currently at planning stage- and the magnificent river-side Lansdowne site etc.

Harry Palmr · 05-11-2019 5:02pm

But we got a motorway to Dublin!

invara · 05-11-2019 5:29pm

Glenomra wrote: »

! Just wondering what have the Waterford presidents got.

Metaphorically WIT leaders got hung from lampposts - five of them lined up as a warning to any ambitious leader. Ed Walsh got into fierce trouble with the HEA and Dept. of Ed, but every time they came at him with a cleaver Limerick politicians formed a protective guard. Waterford and South Eastern politicians have done nothing but harm WIT (and consequentially everyone who learns or works in WIT) over the past 15 years.

Carlow numbers are just flatly weird. If you look at the recent HEA landscape report they are a good deal smaller than WIT by some measures, but look to have inflated UG numbers.
https://hea.ie/assets/uploads/2019/10/Institutional-Profiles-2016-17.pdf
Total Contract Research Income per Academic Staff WIT: €28k, Carlow €5.5k
Staff numbers WIT: 900, Carlow 430
Income WIT: €89m, Carlow €41m
New entrants WIT: 1784, Carlow 1216

Undergrad student numbers are where the story does not tally for me… WIT: 6,616, Carlow 6,334… how are Carlow’s so high when their new entrants are 2/3rds of WITs. Just odd, especially when compared to the big gap in income and staff numbers. If Carlow has 1,216 1st years, it would need to hold on to students for 5.2 years to have 6,334 undergraduates. WIT has 1784 1st years and 6,616 equates to 3.5 years of students, which tallies with a mix of 3 and 4 year programmes. By my estimate, based on sectoral norms Carlow should have 4,200 undergraduates, suggesting 2,300 additional registrations that are not resourced (by income or staff), and do not appear to have come from normal competitive recruitment. Just plain odd.

The Tralee/Cork TU application was carved up by the international review panel because the panel did not accept the numbers submitted. I believe there is a credibility gap (or something unexplained) between new entrants and claimed UG numbers Carlow- they simply do not add up; and a panel is likely to have halted an application if it went forward without credible numbers behind it.

hardybuck · 05-11-2019 5:42pm

Did the politicians form a protective guard or are the institutions autonomous to the extent that the HEA couldn't intervene outside of harshly criticising them in the media like they did?

The Institute's Governing body manages and controls affairs of the Institute.

imacman · 05-11-2019 5:45pm

invara wrote: »

Metaphorically WIT leaders got hung from lampposts - five of them lined up as a warning to any ambitious leader. Ed Walsh got into fierce trouble with the HEA and Dept. of Ed, but every time they came at him with a cleaver Limerick politicians formed a protective guard. Waterford and South Eastern politicians have done nothing but harm WIT (and consequentially everyone who learns or works in WIT) over the past 15 years.

Carlow numbers are just flatly weird. If you look at the recent HEA landscape report they are a good deal smaller than WIT by some measures, but look to have inflated UG numbers.
https://hea.ie/assets/uploads/2019/10/Institutional-Profiles-2016-17.pdf
Total Contract Research Income per Academic Staff WIT: €28k, Carlow €5.5k
Staff numbers WIT: 900, Carlow 430
Income WIT: €89m, Carlow €41m
New entrants WIT: 1784, Carlow 1216

Undergrad student numbers are where the story does not tally for me… WIT: 6,616, Carlow 6,334… how are Carlow’s so high when their new entrants are 2/3rds of WITs. Just odd, especially when compared to the big gap in income and staff numbers. If Carlow has 1,216 1st years, it would need to hold on to students for 5.2 years to have 6,334 undergraduates. WIT has 1784 1st years and 6,616 equates to 3.5 years of students, which tallies with a mix of 3 and 4 year programmes. By my estimate, based on sectoral norms Carlow should have 4,200 undergraduates, suggesting 2,300 additional registrations that are not resourced (by income or staff), and do not appear to have come from normal competitive recruitment. Just plain odd.

The Tralee/Cork TU application was carved up by the international review panel because the panel did not accept the numbers submitted. I believe there is a credibility gap (or something unexplained) between new entrants and claimed UG numbers Carlow- they simply do not add up; and a panel is likely to have halted an application if it went forward without credible numbers behind it.

I not just odd, its lies and exaggerations. This is the institute who say they are the second biggest institute of technology in the country on the bottom of all their press releases.By every measure CIT and WIT are bigger

invara · 05-11-2019 6:01pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Did the politicians form a protective guard or are the institutions autonomous to the extent that the HEA couldn't intervene outside of harshly criticising them in the media like they did?

The Institute's Governing body manages and controls the affairs of the Institute.

There are brilliant stories of the strokes that helpful politicans pulled for their insititutions- sadly none can be reproduced here. Every university needs political patronage, and when in full flight it is a beauty to behold.

The universities are almost wholly dependent on the state for funding but because of the Irish Water decision (50% of funding needs to be non-State grant or their borrowings goes on the state balance sheet) the State plays along with the semi-fiction that they are independent. If you trawl the accounts of the universities (as I do from time-to-time- sad life that I lead, but that is my idea of fun) it is not the Mexicans funding our universities- it is Irish taxpayers.

hardybuck · 05-11-2019 6:16pm

invara wrote: »

There are brilliant stories of the strokes that helpful politicans pulled for their insititutions- sadly none can be reproduced here. Every university needs political patronage, and when in full flight it is a beauty to behold.

The universities are almost wholly dependent on the state for funding but because of the Irish Water decision (50% of funding needs to be non-State grant or their borrowings goes on the state balance sheet) the State plays along with the semi-fiction that they are independent. If you trawl the accounts of the universities (as I do from time-to-time- sad life that I lead, but that is my idea of fun) it is not the Mexicans funding our universities- it is Irish taxpayers.

I take your point regarding patronage, but they appear to be self governing to all intents and purposes.

Irish taxpayers are funding third level to an increasingly lesser extent. It will be incumbent on all Institutions to become more entrepreneurial and find more income streams and contain costs.

echancrure · 05-11-2019 10:42pm

invara wrote: »

Metaphorically WIT leaders got hung from lampposts - five of them lined up as a warning to any ambitious leader. Ed Walsh got into fierce trouble with the HEA and Dept. of Ed, but every time they came at him with a cleaver Limerick politicians formed a protective guard. Waterford and South Eastern politicians have done nothing but harm WIT (and consequentially everyone who learns or works in WIT) over the past 15 years.

Carlow numbers are just flatly weird. If you look at the recent HEA landscape report they are a good deal smaller than WIT by some measures, but look to have inflated UG numbers.
https://hea.ie/assets/uploads/2019/10/Institutional-Profiles-2016-17.pdf
Total Contract Research Income per Academic Staff WIT: €28k, Carlow €5.5k
Staff numbers WIT: 900, Carlow 430
Income WIT: €89m, Carlow €41m
New entrants WIT: 1784, Carlow 1216

Undergrad student numbers are where the story does not tally for me… WIT: 6,616, Carlow 6,334… how are Carlow’s so high when their new entrants are 2/3rds of WITs. Just odd, especially when compared to the big gap in income and staff numbers. If Carlow has 1,216 1st years, it would need to hold on to students for 5.2 years to have 6,334 undergraduates. WIT has 1784 1st years and 6,616 equates to 3.5 years of students, which tallies with a mix of 3 and 4 year programmes. By my estimate, based on sectoral norms Carlow should have 4,200 undergraduates, suggesting 2,300 additional registrations that are not resourced (by income or staff), and do not appear to have come from normal competitive recruitment. Just plain odd.

The Tralee/Cork TU application was carved up by the international review panel because the panel did not accept the numbers submitted. I believe there is a credibility gap (or something unexplained) between new entrants and claimed UG numbers Carlow- they simply do not add up; and a panel is likely to have halted an application if it went forward without credible numbers behind it.

Just pointing out that the difference in student numbers is due to part time students (see the numbers in the document provided).
IT Carlow is number one in the country for the number of part time lifelong students who mostly study at night or for short intensive periods. This is a Carlow strength and an area of expertise well aligned with the government and employers priorities. As an aside it is also a strong revenue stream.

The numbers are not cooked up, nor is the indicated yearly surplus for IT Carlow and the deficit wor Waterford IT.

Horusire · 05-11-2019 10:49pm

Carlow IT has circa 400 military students passing through it each year with about 90% not attending lectures on campus. Maybe that's some of the confusion

road_high · 06-11-2019 1:35am

Carlow IT run a load of Lifelong learning professional courses aimed at industry (I’ve done one myself ) very much under the philosophy that third level learning is no longer just the preserve of school leavers and rightly so.
I support the merger as the south east badly needs a university now but the funding has to be upped to match the likes of UCC and UL. If not it’s just a window dressing exercise for political purposes.

BBM77 · 06-11-2019 9:44am

road_high wrote: »

Carlow IT run a load of Lifelong learning professional courses aimed at industry (I’ve done one myself ) very much under the philosophy that third level learning is no longer just the preserve of school leavers and rightly so.
I support the merger as the south east badly needs a university now but the funding has to be upped to match the likes of UCC and UL. If not it’s just a window dressing exercise for political purposes.

The University of the South East is just a window dressing exercise for political purposes. What the government has done must be more expensive at this stage than it would have been to just upgrade WIT to a full university.

imacman · 06-11-2019 10:46am

road_high wrote: »

Carlow IT run a load of Lifelong learning professional courses aimed at industry (I’ve done one myself ) very much under the philosophy that third level learning is no longer just the preserve of school leavers and rightly so.
I support the merger as the south east badly needs a university now but the funding has to be upped to match the likes of UCC and UL. If not it’s just a window dressing exercise for political purposes.

Its is and will always be political window dressing , the south east has always needed a university but thats not what we are getting.We will be left with a TU without the university funding model,massive merger costs which will be full of fudges,inefficient compromises, infighting, disenfranchised staff and IR issues.

I personally think that the merged entity will be a less effective organisation than the existing institutions.I fully expect a prime time special and probably an inquiry in the next 10 years on now much tax payers money has been squandered to turn productive and effective Institutes of Technology into dysfunctional TUs all to add the university name over the door.

Glenomra · 09-11-2019 3:53pm

The Limerick Leader has a wonderful supplement this week on the history of UL during the 50 years since it was founded. Very detailed, very informative. For those interested in seeing the full potential of a new university in a region, including the initial sustained opposition and the major benefits that derive from it, it would be worth your while getting it somehow. Even though I live close to the university I had forgotten or never knew much of the remarkable story. 50 individual buildings including concert hall, swimming area etc. 49 on the Plassey campus, the 50th to be built in the city centre. an amazing 200,000,000 euro spent in the last 5 years. One of the contributors highlighting what UL did\does fro Limerick points out the need for a university in the South-East. In my relatively uninformed opinion it would be best for the region if Waterford on its own had a university with the attendant benefits for the city rather than trying to share them with a county town... with the resultant rivalry leading to loss of opportunities.

friendlyfun · 12-11-2019 6:56am

Only city in Ireland without a University. Evidence of Waterford being left behind

azimuth17 · 12-11-2019 9:59am

Glenomra wrote: »

The Limerick Leader has a wonderful supplement this week on the history of UL during the 50 years since it was founded. Very detailed, very informative. For those interested in seeing the full potential of a new university in a region, including the initial sustained opposition and the major benefits that derive from it, it would be worth your while getting it somehow. Even though I live close to the university I had forgotten or never knew much of the remarkable story. 50 individual buildings including concert hall, swimming area etc. 49 on the Plassey campus, the 50th to be built in the city centre. an amazing 200,000,000 euro spent in the last 5 years. One of the contributors highlighting what UL did\does fro Limerick points out the need for a university in the South-East. In my relatively uninformed opinion it would be best for the region if Waterford on its own had a university with the attendant benefits for the city rather than trying to share them with a county town... with the resultant rivalry leading to loss of opportunities.

This is the very reason why Waterford does not have a university. Although it has always been the largest urban area by far in south east, Waterford does not dominate the region like Limerick does. With the investment mentioned here it obviously would, therefore towns around the region are nervous, therefore we "must" proceed with some bastard thing with something for everyone in the audience. Self evidently the wrong thing to do.

invara · 10-12-2019 6:28pm

Royal College of Surgeons Ireland (RCSI) has been authorised to use the title of university in Ireland today. This is the fifth new university in Ireland since 1989- DCU, UL, MU, TUD (if a TU counts) and now RCSI. Before 1989 there was four universities in Ireland (TCD, UCC, UCD, NUIG).

Today's annoucement was made by Minister McHugh and Minister Mitchell-O'Connor. These institutions were produced by the State through our politics. They are not independent, naturally occuring institutions- each is a political project. Every higher education insititution in this country is a regional institution- none could be considered as national as they draw students from a commutable hinterland.

In 2009 and again in 2011 FG promised to create a university in the SE based on WIT, where has that promise gone? Why have no investments been made in support of the new designation?

hardybuck · 10-12-2019 6:59pm

invara wrote: »

Royal College of Surgeons Ireland (RCSI) has been authorised to use the title of university in Ireland today. This is the fifth new university in Ireland since 1989- DCU, UL, MU, TUD (if a TU counts) and now RCSI. Before 1989 there was four universities in Ireland (TCD, UCC, UCD, NUIG).

Today's annoucement was made by Minister McHugh and Minister Mitchell-O'Connor. These institutions were produced by the State through our politics. They are not independent, naturally occuring institutions- each is a political project. Every higher education insititution in this country is a regional institution- none could be considered as national as they draw students from a commutable hinterland.

In 2009 and again in 2011 FG promised to create a university in the SE based on WIT, where has that promise gone? Why have no investments been made in support of the new designation?

How is RCSI a political project when it predates the foundation of the State by about 150 years?

jmcc · 10-12-2019 7:44pm

invara wrote: »

In 2009 and again in 2011 FG promised to create a university in the SE based on WIT, where has that promise gone? Why have no investments been made in support of the new designation?

The simple answer to that is that the gombeens in FG got into power. Politicians will promise anything to get their snouts in the public trough.

Regards...jmcc

invara · 10-12-2019 11:09pm

hardybuck wrote: »

How is RCSI a political project when it predates the foundation of the State by about 150 years?

I know, to hear them speak one would think that they were as estranged from the State as the Queen.

3 things make me thing RCSI's university statuss is a political project- there have been two Bills passed into law in the past few years designed to specifically give RCSI university status- a remarkable feat in this low energy Dáil. The first allowed RCSI to hold themselves out as a university abroad, but bizarrely not at home, the second allowed today's annoucement.
Two, along with UL, RCSI was awarded one of the two new graduate entry programmes into medicine. Three, EU undergraduate students are funded through the student fees scheme, I know the international fees are massive and it does not get a block grant (although it has accessed EIB lending eg. €40m last month).

Today's annoucement was made by the Minister, it was in his gift.

hardybuck · 10-12-2019 11:41pm

invara wrote: »

I know, to hear them speak one would think that they were as estranged from the State as the Queen.

3 things make me thing RCSI's university statuss is a political project- there have been two Bills passed into law in the past few years designed to specifically give RCSI university status- a remarkable feat in this low energy Dáil. The first allowed RCSI to hold themselves out as a university abroad, but bizarrely not at home, the second allowed today's annoucement.
Two, along with UL, RCSI was awarded one of the two new graduate entry programmes into medicine. Three, EU undergraduate students are funded through the student fees scheme, I know the international fees are massive and it does not get a block grant (although it has accessed EIB lending eg. €40m last month).

Today's annoucement was made by the Minister, it was in his gift.

They appear to have a strong reputation internationally going back quite a while, I think they stand out a bit from the others.

The status was probably key to getting the huge income from international students and crucially maintaining a supply of trainees into the system and hospitals like Waterford.

Dunmoreroader · 11-12-2019 1:30pm

So the latest tally is;
Region Population Uni.'s 1st Uni. founded Pop. per Uni.
Greater Dublin/Mideast: 2.03M 6 1592 0.34M
Southwest (incl.Cork): 0.69M 1 1845 0.69M
West (incl. Galway): 0.45M 1 1845 0.45M
Midwest (incl. Limerick): 0.39M 1 1972 0.39M
Southeast (incl. Waterford): 0.50M 0 ???? n/a
Borders 0.39M 0
Midlands 0.29M 0

So 6 Uni.s for 2 million in the entire Greater Dublin/Mideast region and still none for the 1/2 a mil down here in the Southeast

Harry Palmr · 17-12-2019 12:46pm

Some news for undergrad places

More than €1.2 million has been announced for 142 additional places across six undergraduate courses at Waterford Institute of Technology (WIT) in key skills areas as part of the Government’s Human Capital Initiative (HCI).

Pillar Two of the HCI is a key part of the Government’s Future Jobs Ireland strategy and its focus on enhancing skills and developing and attracting talent.

There will be 71 additional places created each year (over two years) across six courses. Eight places will be created on the new Bachelor of Business (Hons) in Business Information Systems. Existing courses where additional student places will be created include BSc (Hons) in Applied Computing (16), BSc in Multimedia Applications Development (12), Bachelor of Engineering (Honours) (10), BSc in Information Technology (15) and BSc in Software Systems Development (10).

https://www.waterfordlive.ie/news/national/502225/government-announces-1-2-million-for-new-student-places-at-waterford-institute-of-technology.html

imacman · 19-12-2019 5:45pm

Why isn't WIT getting funding like this, god knows it needs lots of refurbishment.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/further-boost-for-cit-as-bishopstown-campus-set-for-19m-refurbishment-970998.html

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2019-press-releases/PR19-12-17.html

Bards · 19-12-2019 6:36pm

imacman wrote: »

Why isn't WIT getting funding like this, god knows it needs lots of refurbishment.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/further-boost-for-cit-as-bishopstown-campus-set-for-19m-refurbishment-970998.html

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2019-press-releases/PR19-12-17.html

Two words... Political representation

Bards · 19-12-2019 6:36pm

imacman wrote: »

Why isn't WIT getting funding like this, god knows it needs lots of refurbishment.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/further-boost-for-cit-as-bishopstown-campus-set-for-19m-refurbishment-970998.html

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2019-press-releases/PR19-12-17.html

Two words... Political representation

fits · 20-12-2019 11:14am

imacman wrote: »

Why isn't WIT getting funding like this, god knows it needs lots of refurbishment.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/further-boost-for-cit-as-bishopstown-campus-set-for-19m-refurbishment-970998.html

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2019-press-releases/PR19-12-17.html

If they get the TUSE into gear Im sure lots of money will be forthcoming.

Waterford University discussion

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