Corona Virus

Fair points, can't argue against any of that

The Paznaun valley has long had a reputation in Austria for both phenomenal greed and basically doing whatever the hell they want regardless of authority. Ask any Austrians who live in other parts of Tirol, or neighboring Vorarlberg, and they will tell you the stories. The whole valley has much in common with a cartel, where planning permission issues, etc. often conveniently gets circumvented.

For me a key issue here is that the gondolas bringing people up the mountain continued to run for days after the police were already in the process of shutting down bars, etc. This really beggars belief in my opinion, and is a real smoking gun for the 'willful endangerment of life' charge. If bars are being forced to close because of an infectious disease spreading among patrons, then it is 100% clear that any areas where people will be forced into close confinement is also a risk, and must also be immediately closed. Hence at this point the ski stations were operating knowing full well that there was a clear risk of their patrons being infected.

As to who should have taken that call to close immediately, that is still under debate.

Does that resort have a system of Gondolas to bring people up the mountain, such as you find in Ischgl, St Anton etc? If you have chair lifts taking people up then you may possible be able to limit things, e.g. block off every second/third seat etc. but the big issue I would imagine would be with the Gondolas.

Really hard to say how it will pan out at the moment, especially considering that Austria is currently starting a second heavy wave, with new restrictions coming in from today. I think it is very true that many people are simply not going to travel this year anyway, so perhaps even if tough controls are put in concerning the numbers on lifts etc. then perhaps it may not be too bad? Just impossible to tell at the moment really.

Yes but I think that message was sent to public health authorities, in fact per the article it definitely was. I don't think you can hold that against the resort (whatever else you might want to). Plus at that time the view that they could have gotten it on the plane with people who had been in Northern Italy and tested positive was reasonable. Do you remember the fear when it was reported that someone had tested positive in Belfast having flown through dublin and gotten public transport up? We all thought everyone who had been on the train / plane was a gonner.

Yeah that's fair enough - but I don't think those decisions should be left to the individual companies, I suspect the public failing is greater than the private

There's no good deals in ischgl I'm afraid! Skiing is class. Apres was said to be great but I didn't properly indulge. I think the characterization in that article of loads of 50 year old men in a bar while a girl in her 20s parades around in a bikini may be correct.

Skiing/boarding in Ischgl is top class. The lift system is second to none.

There's quieter bars in the town that are good for just having a few beers and a chat after a day on the slopes which I much prefer these days tbh. That being said I didn't think Freeride was too bad. A bit sleazy alright with the dancers on the bar but the music is pretty decent and they don't play that awful apres europop nonsense.

Interesting to see the things they're doing. Clearly intending on opening fully.

Can anyone think of any resorts where you're not that dependent on gondolas / cable cars?

Alpe d'Huez is pretty much all chairs/baskets/buttons IIRC too.

We've accepted that we won't be going skiing this winter barring an outright miracle. Just not worth the risk, imo.

Thanks lads. It's good to have some ideas in the bag but there's so much up in the air that it's very hard to know.

Will we be allowed travel by our government?
Will it be morally acceptable to do so?
Will the countries we travel to allow us in unrestricted?
Is there a danger the position might change while you're there?
Will the resorts open?
Will it be worth your while if they do or will the limits make it perhaps a season to let go?

Kind of suits me as I'm a short break last minute man, on the other hand, I won't have a travel agent looking after me if it goes belly up

Hard to know! But pretty sure i'll give it a shot (unless the grim reaper is walking the streets)

Some good points raised there.

Dial_Hard, I definitely agree with your point re the risk involved. Regardless of how careful the resorts try to be, skiing is going to be inherently a high risk activity, as there is simply no way to feasibly get up the mountain without some class of close contact. If you look at the language that Ischgl are using, you can see that they are probably going to go for still using the gondalas (well, in Ischgl there is no other choice) while making people wear masks in order to counter the risk. No matter what way they play it you are looking at a large number in close proximity for the duration of that gondola, which I believe in itself is going to put a lot of people off going. Have to have a smile though at the way Ischgl have the 'Health is our top priority' is the large orange letters ...

A148pro, your point about the moral acceptability is a very valid one in my opinion. We all know the high focus that is on skiing since the events last year. Imagine the case that travel is indeed allowed, but you are then have the misfortune of catching it while skiing, and subsequently spread it on once you get home. You would very likely be crucified within the local community.

Blue note, your point re the numbers been down is also very appropriate. Although it sounds ideal as in having the place to yourself, the fact of the matter is that you need a certain minimum number below which you cannot afford to operate, as you are making a loss. The feeling on the ground in Austria is that many resorts will just not be able to open at all if the normal swell of people from Germany, Netherlands, Scandinavia etc. does not turn up.

I don't know - I think we are in a bit of a covid bubble in ireland, we are very compliant and quite strict in our measures. I get the impression they are less so in other countries, so they may feel different about skiing and will be happy to go. But that's just a hunch.

Another factor is that people's patience (and fear) is wearing thin. By Winter, particularly with no clear end in sight a lot of younger people in particular may say come what may, I'm going.

I have to say, and I think I'm a bit more cautious than a lot of my peers, but I find it hard to see myself not going this year, absent some clear evidence of a risk in flying which has not heretofore been shown as far as I'm aware? And if I could find a good chairlift option and just do take away food I think I'd be happy.

a148pro wrote: »

Another factor is that people's patience (and fear) is wearing thin. By Winter, particularly with no clear end in sight a lot of younger people in particular may say come what may, I'm going.

I have to say, and I think I'm a bit more cautious than a lot of my peers, but I find it hard to see myself not going this year, absent some clear evidence of a risk in flying which has not heretofore been shown as far as I'm aware? And if I could find a good chairlift option and just do take away food I think I'd be happy.

As long as I don’t have to quarantine for two weeks I’m going to go.
I’m in my 40’s but I am fit and healthy as are my family. I’d avoid going anywhere near my parents or any others at risk when I came home though.

a148pro wrote: »

Although watching the news tonight, Israel, UK, france, spain all experiencing massive numbers, making me want to stay in the bunker

But now for some good news - there's snow in the forecast apparently!

Loads of it too!

Massive dump in Austria.
Meanwhile Germany has just declared Tirol to be a risk area, meaning quarantine requirement on return; this will destroy the season and the locals are seriously worried.

Jizique wrote: »

Massive dump in Austria.
Meanwhile Germany has just declared Tirol to be a risk area, meaning quarantine requirement on return; this will destroy the season and the locals are seriously worried.

I assume they're reacting to the 14 day numbers or whatever, like they declared Dublin? Looks like it'll begin to pay for areas to lock down to get their numbers down, to get more tourists in (to get their numbers back up!)

Yeah, I had the same reaction to the Ischgl guidelines. They lead with a large orange 'Safety is our top priority!' but there is little or nothing then in the subsequent description to really give you a sense of confidence.

As much as the fresh snow on top of the mountains over the last days is a sight for sore eyes, it is still very difficult to fathom how it is going to work out. It will take just one confirmed case at one of the large resorts to cause complete panic, which is surely going to happen in any case, no matter how careful people are, or what regulations are put in place. Austria is also very much in the midst of a corona hot phase at the moment too, with the situation tending to worse rather than better.

In general I do not think those in their 30's or younger will be too phased by it, but I can seen those who are 50+ having a much more serious think about things before going, and that age group tends to make up a very large percentage of all skiers.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/12/failures-at-austrian-ski-resort-helped-speed-up-spread-of-covid-19-in-europe

https://planetski.eu/2020/10/31/austria-introduces-new-lockdown-measures/#:~:text=Eight%20glacier%20ski%20resorts%20are,run%20in%20the%20Resterhöhe%20area.

BarryNumber1 wrote: »

So there's good news and bad news, after some probing my wife said I can go snowboarding, and I can stay out there.

Decisions, decisions.

Funny that, my wife said the exact same thing!

a148pro wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/government-to-waive-quarantine-restrictions-for-some-travellers-from-sunday-1.4400039

Getting easier?

Let’s hope so.