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Destruction of heritage
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18-01-2012 5:27pm#1
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This thread has the potential to be huge but very depressing. Here are the first two that pop into my head.
Drogheda Grammar School
© Copyright Kieran Campbell and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence
Kenure House near Rush, Co.Dublin THEN
and NOW
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Trabolgan House, Co.Cork
Purchased by the Land Commission in the 1940s. The house was demolished in 1982 and the demesne is now an activity holiday centre, see http://www.trabolgan.com
More about the history of Trabolgan and its interesting 'Royal' connections here:
http://gatecottages.wordpress.com/2011/05/25/trabolgan-country-estate/0 -
The Grand Daddy of them all and similar, but far more reprehensible, to the Kerry farmer's case is Wood Quay. Not only was a superb opportunity to develop a genuine Viking Centre lost but Sam Stephenson's abominations were inflicted on us too.
A protest scene in Dublin during the Wood Quay debacle.
There was massive public opposition to the destruction at Wood Quay but the arrogance of Dublin City Council knew no bounds and this is the result.
© Copyright Eric Jones and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.0 -
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Coole House :mad:
Coole estate was purchased in 1768 by Robert Gregory on his return to Ireland following service with the East India Company. It remained with the Gregory family until 1927 when it was sold to the state. Residing there at that time was Lady Augusta Gregory, already a legend in her lifetime as a dramatist, folklorist and co-founder of the Abbey Theatre with W.B. Yeats and Edward Martyn.
Lady Gregory's love of Coole and its 'Seven Woods', immortalised by Yeats, is manifested in her writings and those of her literary guests.
"These woods have been well loved, well tended by some who came before me, and my affection has been no less than theirs. The generations of trees have been my care, my comforters. Their companionship has often brought me peace."
Lady Gregory, Coole, 1931
She was one of the most important figures in the Irish Literary Revival of the early 20th century, not only because of her achievements as a playwright, but also because of the way she transformed Coole into a focal point for those who shaped that movement, making it a place they would return to time and time again to talk, to plan, to derive inspiration.
But the woods and lakes at Coole were richer than Yeats divined. The 'Seven Woods', which so enchanted Lady Gregory and her guests, held whispers of a more ancient ancestry, of which the literary visitors were scarcely aware: remnants of the earlier natural forest cover, and the disappearing lake and river are part of the finest turlough complex not merely in Ireland but in all the world.
Lady Gregory died on 22nd May 1932. In one sense, the magic of Coole has been in abeyance since the demolition of the house in 1941, a time when more immediate concerns occupied the minds of most people. Coole-Garyland is now a statutory Nature Reserve managed by the National Parks & Wildlife Service, whose aim is to preserve its rich natural and cultural heritage.
More immediate concerns my arse. :mad:0 -
Ohhh Ohhh I've more:
Trim Castle Hotel - sure why didn't they just attach it on to the side of the castle...
http://www.trimcastlehotel.com/home.htm
:mad::mad::mad:
I once heard a colleague go off on one about the building of a helipad at Clonmacnoise (for the 1979 Papal visit?) but can't find any images...
Anyone have any info on that?0 -
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I'm on a roll here.
My beloved South Mall in Cork -
From a street of Georgian elegance -
From Cork city Library - sadly they don't appear to give a date for this photograph but it is from the Lawrence Collection
http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/mapsimages/corkphotographs/lawrencecollection/William Lawrence, after which the collection is named, was not himself a photographer, but an early entrepreneur. Realising the huge potential of the medium, he opened a photography studio in Sackville Street in Dublin in 1865. Over a number of years, he employed a team of photographers to capture the many and varied parts of Ireland, including Cork, depicted in these photographs. The full collection consists of 40,000 glass plates mainly from the period 1880-1914, but some plates go back to 1870. Robert French (1841–1917) was employed as his chief photographer in 1880. French took over 30,000 photographs of the “Lawrence Collection”
to Soviet style monstrosity.
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A slow destruction this one, Baldungan/Baldongan Castle in North Co Dublin.
Late 1800s
I understand the last of the castle disappeared in the 1960s do to this day even some of the locals still mistakenly call the remains of the church the castle.
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Judgement Day wrote: »
Kenure House near Rush, Co.Dublin THEN
and NOW
Kenure is in Rush not near it. The estate behind it is St Catherines, Rush.0 -
Bannasidhe wrote: »
I once heard a colleague go off on one about the building of a helipad at Clonmacnoise (for the 1979 Papal visit?) but can't find any images...
Anyone have any info on that?
Not very impressive looking today.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sherwoodh/5019553526
Aerial shot,, pad at the north of settlement between the river
New York Times 1985The newest structure at Clonmacnoise is not yet 20 years old - a shelter built in 1969 for open-air masses. On Sept. 9, St. Kieran's feast day is celebrated with a service that attracts as many as 30,000 people. When Pope John Paul II visited Clonmacnoise in 1979, he spoke from the mass shelter. (He landed at the ruins by helicopter, and the pad constructed for the occasion remains. You would expect it to look flagrantly anachronistic, and yet there is something oddly congruous about the round concrete slab that is more than just the result of deliberate architectural harmonizing.
Corkman.ieDonncha Ó Dulaing, who was then broadcasting his daily programme ‘Highways and Byways’ on RTE Radio One, had travelled to Rome the week prior to the visit and had broadcast two programmes from the Vatican.
He then travelled back on the flight to Dublin, but his efforts to interview Pope John Paul II were almost thwarted by the papal bodyguard, Monsignor – later Archbishop – Paul Marcinkus.
“Marcinkus was a giant of a man and one didn’t argue with him,” said Donncha as he recalled those hectic days.
Of course Donncha went on to broadcast from the other locations which the Pope visited during his short stay in Ireland. One of these locations was the ancient monastic settlement of Clonmacnoise. This was publicised as a private visit by the Pontiff and the media were not present, except for the intrepid Donncha, who succeeded in getting a forty-minute exclusive radio broadcast.
He drove across country from Drogheda via Dublin through the night, arriving at a damp and misty Clonmacnoise and the roads full of people walking with Papal flags and the tricolour.
Donncha says he was reminded of the passage from William Bulfin’s Rambles in Erin which reads:
“On all the roads between Banagher and Athlone there are troops of people facing westward, hundreds of people are tramping the roads in the dust; hundreds are footing it over the fields and the hills.”
Then the helicopter hovering and descending out of the mist to the landing pad and the Pope set foot in the seat of the old Celtic religion and the seat of Rory O’Connor, the last High King of Ireland, who is buried there.0 -
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St. Peter's Church Aungier Street closed in 1950 and demolished in 1983.
According to wiki it was the largest Church of Ireland Parish church in Dublin at one time. The local parish of Robert Emmet's family (some argue he was interred there)0 -
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slowburner wrote: »Sometimes it is not that simple, sadly.
He is a neighbour and out here in the boonies you can't go cheesing off your neighbours - let alone requesting their prosecution.
The other thing is that he levelled it before it had been listed in the Sites and Monuments Record, so proving its prior existence would be well nigh impossible.
I did inform an archaeologist at the DAHG with responsibility for the area - the reply was that it has happened to tens of thousands of sites.
I suspect he is right.
We have undoubtedly lost thousands of early sites - the remarkable thing is how many have survived.
Maybe we can thank the Romans for that.
The Romans?
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slowburner wrote: »Well, the Romans didn't build all that many forts, roads, spas, boundary walls in Ireland, did they?
If they had, we would have lost more of our early heritage.
Imagine how they would have used up all those ready sorted piles of stones as substrates for their lovely straight roads.
Ah. Getcha now
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In fairness these pictures aren't comparing like with like, they are opposite sides of the street, and vile and all as Gardner (formerly Sutton) House is, it replaced Suttons coal warehouse which was no beauty and fairly filthy too I'd imagine.
True - I couldn't find any photo of the south side of the Mall - but I bet that when the turn of the century photo was taken there wasn't a Soviet block there. 0 -
Bannasidhe wrote: »True - I couldn't find any photo of the south side of the Mall - but I bet that when the turn of the century photo was taken there wasn't a Soviet block there.
No, those two utilitarian office blocks were lashed up in the 60s before that there were utilitarian victorian warehouses built in the 1800s.0 -
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Sutton's Fire, South Mall, 29th November 1963 www.corkcityfirebrigade.ie
OK, so it's not completely hideous, the bits you can see anyway, but I guess a warehouse with coal, and oil in it would always be at risk of fire damage. TF McNamaras "Portrait of Cork" has a very poor picture from another angle of a 1958 fire.0 -
Sutton's Fire, South Mall, 29th November 1963 www.corkcityfirebrigade.ie
OK, so it's not completely hideous, the bits you can see anyway, but I guess a warehouse with coal, and oil in it would always be at risk of fire damage. TF McNamaras "Portrait of Cork" has a very poor picture from another angle of a 1958 fire.
It looks there like it was redbrick with limestone - a combination found along the Mall. I doubt it was mustard yellow/baby pooh colour of the Soviet monstrosity.0 -
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Some industrial heritage, Ballysadare Mill, Sligo
Totally depressing topic.
The above building arose as a topic over on another site - here is one of the better links to what has/is happening to it - worth a look to see what happens to our 'finest architecture and quality construction'.
http://zxcode.com/2011/05/the-mill-apartments-ballisodare/
P.0 -
Being that it was an industrial building, it was probably local slob brick rather than the better quality imported clay ones used on the more upmarket buldings of the Mall. If so, it would be looking pretty bad by now even without the two fires. Slob bricks were made on the douglas river and over by the railway station from river mud and they were soft, mishapen and uneven coloured. All of the good clay bricks were imported, mostly from holland and they were too expensive to use on 'lesser buildings'.
The 60s were not noted for architecture in this country, but soviet is off the mark, those office blocks are distinctly capitalist in nature, lash it up cheaply and get the profits in.
I remember reading somewhere - Sorry, can't recall where, which is unlike me - that a lot of the Dutch redbricks used on the Mall came in as ballast. The beautiful wrought iron balconies seen in parts of Sydney were similarly made from ballast - pig iron in their case.
capitalist/soviet - bloody ugly either way
I went to school on the first floor of #15. It still had many of the original feature - beautiful plasterwork, double doors leading into an ante-room, original fireplace and Victorian bathroom with original panelling (and bath and loo!). It always made me feel like I was in a 'posh' railway carriage.0 -
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Sir - my father was born in Cork in 1904 - his dad was a clerk with the Cork Steam Packet Co.
Do you know of any books of Old Cork, or a 'then and now'?
I'd appreciate any information on the subject.
tac
There are loads of books from old photographs published by the Irish Examiner/Evening Echo and others, local area Memoirs (which might be difficult to get other than locally), and more specialist covering the Markets, Local Business's, industry, politics, geology etc. Where do you want to start?
The Steam Packet Office is on the right in this picture or more recently from Google maps in the attachment.
A good place to have a look online is Cork City Library http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/
There's a full set of maps on the Ordnance Survey of Ireland site and you can toggle between current and old maps.
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,567428,571988,5,90 -
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Sir - my father was born in Cork in 1904 - his dad was a clerk with the Cork Steam Packet Co.
Do you know of any books of Old Cork, or a 'then and now'?
I'd appreciate any information on the subject.
tac
Tac,
Not been very up on Cork (been a Galwegian and all). But given that I'm assuming you have a military background (going on the thread on Native Americans) you might appreciate it.
Irish Army Armoured Car in Passage West Cork after landing of forces by ship in 1922. This is during the civil war:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6652701421/
Regarding heritage there was lot destroyed during the Civil war, the prime example is the Record Office in the Four Courts which led to destruction of bulk of state records from medieval Ireland.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6298688212/0 -
i think its outside the walls which look very old but were only erected in the 1950s.Bannasidhe wrote: »Ohhh Ohhh I've more:
Trim Castle Hotel - sure why didn't they just attach it on to the side of the castle...
http://www.trimcastlehotel.com/home.htm
:mad::mad::mad:
I once heard a colleague go off on one about the building of a helipad at Clonmacnoise (for the 1979 Papal visit?) but can't find any images...
Anyone have any info on that?0 -
Bannasidhe wrote: »Coole House :mad:
More immediate concerns my arse. :mad:
the problem was house rates that were very expensive?
a lot of big houses were knocked at this time. they were regarded as symbols of the British Oppressor and this thinking spread to Georgian Dublin. Its not only in Ireland that cultural vandalism takes place. Walk through the streets of Prague and you would never think that there was a 800 year old German culture there. Completely erased after 1945 and written out of existence.0 -
the problem was house rates that were very expensive?
a lot of big houses were knocked at this time. they were regarded as symbols of the British Oppressor and this thinking spread to Georgian Dublin. Its not only in Ireland that cultural vandalism takes place. Walk through the streets of Prague and you would never think that there was a 800 year old German culture there. Completely erased after 1945 and written out of existence.
Coole House was owned by the state who willfully neglected it until it had to be demolished though. Here's an article that was published in 1964 in the "Connacht Turbine" (as us Galwegians often call the Tribune )This article was first published in 'The Connacht Tribune' on Saturday September 5th, 1964.
Dr. Micheal Mac Liammoir has lamented the passing of the Claddagh, the old Claddagh of thatched cottages. He regrets its disappearance as he regrets the decay into a heap of rubble of Lady Gregory's house at Coole near Gort. Speaking at the Yeat's International Summer School in Sligo last week Dr. Mac Liammoir said: Lady Gregory would not be glad about a lot of things that are now being done in Ireland. It is criminal to allow Lady Gregory's house at Coole, County Galway, to fall into ruin from a commerical point of view. Those people who got rid of the house, and the Claddagh in Galway and would not put up a plaque on the house in which Yeats was born are in the next breath crying out for tourists, and what have they to show tourists?"
Dr. Mac Liammoir is probably lamenting the disappearance of the Claddagh of the picture post cards. That was a quaint place. Women in red petticoats sat in the sun outside neat, white-washed cottages of golden thatch, and ducks ambled in a row on the green that fronted the houses. He must have come to know the real Claddagh during the time, now nearly forty years ago, when he and his equally famous colleague of the theatre, Hilton Edwards, launched Taibhdhearc na Gaillimhe. The real Claddagh was very different, but the picture of it may have been wiped out of Dr. Mac Liammoir's mind by the post card. The real thing was a jumble of bedraggled cottages, many of them with sagging or broken roofs, crowded together in a crazy network of alleys, some cobblestoned, some clay-surfaced, but all pitted and holding water whenever rain fell. It was an unsanitary place, the passing of which is not to be regretted.
This country shows scant respect for some ties of historical, archaeological and cultural significance, but to claim for the old Claddagh that it should have been preserved as something of tourist value is asking too much. When demolition was about to take place it was suggested that some of the houses should be preserved as museum pieces. Even if the Claddagh had been all that it was represented to be by the postcards no part of the worth while quality would have been preserved by a few of the cottages.
If blame is to be attached to anyone, associated with the change that took place in the Claddagh about thirty years ago it should be directed against the Local Government Department that provided the plans for the new houses and that, instead of providing something attractive, gave Galway a dull, drab housing area. Because it was a distinct community outside the walls of NormanGalway and because of the distinct way of its old life the Claddagh is still written of in tourist booklets, but it must be a disappointment to those who visit it. And so much could have been done had the housing section of the Department a sense of aesthetic values, in those days.0 -
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Coole House was owned by the state who willfully neglected it until it had to be demolished though. Here's an article that was published in 1964 in the "Connacht Turbine" (as us Galwegians often call the Tribune )
tourism was not developed then. coole park was the place to visit in the 80s( not many other potions on a sunday afternoon). pity about the house. its upkeep could have been maintained through an admission fee.
the claddagh village was deemed unsanitary in the 30s, but if it had been restored it would have been a major magnet for tourists, but why mus we conserve our heritage just for the sake of tourists and making a quick buck? Even in the eighties there were several thatched cottages around the city , which featured on the classic postcards, but here was no interest in keeping them . a old couple lived in a thatched cottage up the road from me in Coolough and when they died about three years ago the cottage was let fall into ruin.0 -
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c.1840
....and today. The minor ringfort still exists but the major one has been obliterated for a golf course.
It was excavated though; nothing of great interest was unearthed but still, could it not have been preserved in some way?
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