Destruction of heritage

ejmaztec

I don't believe for a minute that this guy didn't realise the significance of what was on his land.

Are there any other notable cases of this kind of carry-on across the country?


http://www.kerryman.ie/news/farmer-avoids-jail-for-damage-to-ringfort-2992062.html

Farmer avoids jail for damage to ringfort


By SIMON BROUDER

Wednesday January 18 2012

A MAN who demolished an ancient ring fort has been told he will not be jailed for the offence but faces a substantial fine.
John O'mahony with an address at Clashmealcon, Causeway appeared at Tralee Circuit Criminal Court on Monday to be sentenced for carrying out unauthorised work near a monument on his family's farmland in Causeway in 2008.
At a previous hearing Judge Carroll Moran heard that the family of Mr O'mahony, a 64year-old farmer, owned lands which contained a ring fort and a series of underground tunnels, or souterrains, which dated back to between 500 and 100AD.
The ring fort and souterrain system were deemed to be national monuments of historic importance and had been placed on a national register.
While landowners are allowed carry out works on or near national monuments that are on the register they must contact the Department Environment and receive express written permission from the minister before they proceed.
The trial heard that in February 2008, without seeking permission from the department, John O'mahony hired workers who demolished the majority of the ringfort and used the materials to fill in a nearby pond which Mr O'mahony believed posed a safety risk to children and livestock.
In the course of the work, the majority of the fort was destroyed while two thirds of the souterrian was demolished.
When the Department of the Environment learned of the demolition they contacted Gardaí in Listowel who launched an investigation.
During the garda investigation, John O'mahony initially claimed he was unaware that the site had any great historical significance.
However it emerged that Mr O'mahony had previously objected to a planning application seeking permission to construct four houses on the same site on the grounds that it contained a "historical ring fort".
He subsequently admitted to ordering the demolition of the fort but said he didn't know he wasn't allowed touch the site without two months notice and permission from the minister.
Defence Barrister John O'sullivan said that Mr O'mahony, who had pleaded guilty to the charge, regrets what happened and apologises to the court.
The case is the first of its kind to be heard in ireland and the offence carries a potential sentence of five years in prison or a fine of up to €50,000.
Judge Carroll Moran said that while a custodial sentence was not appropriate in this case he felt that there had to be a penalty for Mr O'mahony's actions, which he described as "unacceptable."
Judge Moran said he would impose a fine, which would be a "reasonable" amount but would take regard of John O'mahony's financial situation.
He adjourned the case until February 21 to allow Mr O'mahony time to provide the court with details of his financial situation.
- SIMON BROUDER

dubhthach

Well the destruction of one of the moments in Telltown (site of ancient Tailteann) in the mid-late 90's is an example. As far as I know they got a similiar slap on the wrist. I read some of the reports on the "rescue dig" that was carried out. I'll dig it out later.

Unfortunately there has been a massive amount of destruction of such sites since the OS 6" map was done in the 1830's/40's.

jonniebgood1

I am reminded with the threads title of an almost unknown act of destructing our built heritage. I have tried to get a newspaper report of it and struggled to do so. Maybe someone will have a better source but people can take this linked record of events for whatever value they want. It is as I remember when working in the area. I remember the demolition being carried out early on a saturday morning.

..... my anger has to be expressed at the act of vandalism carried out on the Protestant hall in October 1995. This was worthy of the Afghan Taleban. Naturally it occurred on a Saturday, the day when
Ireland’s demolition industry did so much of its work. It is hard for me to write about it, as it summons up so many ghosts which I had hoped to exorcise. I had just moved back down to Cavan from
Dublin, a place which was far from free of the stench of corruption. Yet back home in dear old Cavan I felt I had been kidnapped by country-and-Irish loving aliens and transported to another planet. The Protestant Hall was knocked on the whim of the County Council and its then chief executive, and no one was allowed to protest. Indeed anyone who even alluded to the fact that it had ever stood there ran the risk of being victimised and joining the long list of people whom the then County Manager didn’t like. As the man is now deceased I do not wish to say too much. He cannot defend himself from his grave. Let me say this much. I said what I felt needed saying when he was alive. The coven of his detractors has swelled amazingly since his untimely death. He wasn’t the only one responsible for what happened that October day. (Who’s he gettin’ at? They will ask.) http://ciaranparker.com/2006/11/30/cavans-champs-elysees/

http://www.dia.ie/works/view/7359/building/CO.+CAVAN%2C+CAVAN%2C+PROTESTANT+HALL

It was a beautiful old red brick dressed building.
A new county library was built on the site. It is named after the now deceased county manager who was in the council when the demolition of the hall occured. grrrr...

Fratton Fred

There have been similar accusations over Dun Laoghaire Harbour Company's demolition of the station building on the Carlisle pier.

I'm less convinced about its historical significance than I am of a ringfort, but nonetheless it created quite a bit of outrage.

Judgement Day

This thread has the potential to be huge but very depressing. Here are the first two that pop into my head.

Drogheda Grammar School



© Copyright Kieran Campbell and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence

Kenure House near Rush, Co.Dublin THEN



and NOW

mike65

Sure destruction of most of Georgian Dublin in the 60s/70s.

They missed a bit on Fitzwilliam Street.


Some industrial heritage, Ballysadare Mill, Sligo

Judgement Day

Trabolgan House, Co.Cork



Purchased by the Land Commission in the 1940s. The house was demolished in 1982 and the demesne is now an activity holiday centre, see http://www.trabolgan.com

More about the history of Trabolgan and its interesting 'Royal' connections here:
http://gatecottages.wordpress.com/2011/05/25/trabolgan-country-estate/

Judgement Day

The Grand Daddy of them all and similar, but far more reprehensible, to the Kerry farmer's case is Wood Quay. Not only was a superb opportunity to develop a genuine Viking Centre lost but Sam Stephenson's abominations were inflicted on us too.



A protest scene in Dublin during the Wood Quay debacle.

There was massive public opposition to the destruction at Wood Quay but the arrogance of Dublin City Council knew no bounds and this is the result.


© Copyright Eric Jones and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

MarchDub

Judgement Day wrote: »

The Grand Daddy of them all and similar, but far more reprehensible, to the Kerry farmer's case is Wood Quay. Not only was a superb opportunity to develop a genuine Viking Centre lost but Sam Stephenson's abominations were inflicted on us too. ...



There was massive public opposition to the destruction at Wood Quay but the arrogance of Dublin City Council knew no bounds and this is the result.
.

Yes, and it still hurts!

A quote from Dr Pat Wallace at a later conference. Is there some irony being employed there?

For this conference The National Museum has gathered a range of informed speakers to reflect on Stephenson’s life and work and his impact on and contribution to Irish architecture and design. Dr Pat Wallace, Director of the National Museum commented “Although we had our differences particularly regarding the Civic Offices at Wood Quay, I always knew Sam Stephenson was an exciting innovator and a mould breaker”.

Bannasidhe

Coole House :mad:

Coole estate was purchased in 1768 by Robert Gregory on his return to Ireland following service with the East India Company. It remained with the Gregory family until 1927 when it was sold to the state. Residing there at that time was Lady Augusta Gregory, already a legend in her lifetime as a dramatist, folklorist and co-founder of the Abbey Theatre with W.B. Yeats and Edward Martyn.

Lady Gregory's love of Coole and its 'Seven Woods', immortalised by Yeats, is manifested in her writings and those of her literary guests.

"These woods have been well loved, well tended by some who came before me, and my affection has been no less than theirs. The generations of trees have been my care, my comforters. Their companionship has often brought me peace."


Lady Gregory, Coole, 1931
She was one of the most important figures in the Irish Literary Revival of the early 20th century, not only because of her achievements as a playwright, but also because of the way she transformed Coole into a focal point for those who shaped that movement, making it a place they would return to time and time again to talk, to plan, to derive inspiration.

But the woods and lakes at Coole were richer than Yeats divined. The 'Seven Woods', which so enchanted Lady Gregory and her guests, held whispers of a more ancient ancestry, of which the literary visitors were scarcely aware: remnants of the earlier natural forest cover, and the disappearing lake and river are part of the finest turlough complex not merely in Ireland but in all the world.

Lady Gregory died on 22nd May 1932. In one sense, the magic of Coole has been in abeyance since the demolition of the house in 1941, a time when more immediate concerns occupied the minds of most people. Coole-Garyland is now a statutory Nature Reserve managed by the National Parks & Wildlife Service, whose aim is to preserve its rich natural and cultural heritage.

More immediate concerns my arse. :mad:

Bannasidhe

Ohhh Ohhh I've more:

Trim Castle Hotel - sure why didn't they just attach it on to the side of the castle...
http://www.trimcastlehotel.com/home.htm




:mad::mad::mad:

I once heard a colleague go off on one about the building of a helipad at Clonmacnoise (for the 1979 Papal visit?) but can't find any images...

Anyone have any info on that?

Bannasidhe

I'm on a roll here.

My beloved South Mall in Cork -

From a street of Georgian elegance -


From Cork city Library - sadly they don't appear to give a date for this photograph but it is from the Lawrence Collection

William Lawrence, after which the collection is named, was not himself a photographer, but an early entrepreneur. Realising the huge potential of the medium, he opened a photography studio in Sackville Street in Dublin in 1865. Over a number of years, he employed a team of photographers to capture the many and varied parts of Ireland, including Cork, depicted in these photographs. The full collection consists of 40,000 glass plates mainly from the period 1880-1914, but some plates go back to 1870. Robert French (1841–1917) was employed as his chief photographer in 1880. French took over 30,000 photographs of the “Lawrence Collection”

http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/mapsimages/corkphotographs/lawrencecollection/


to Soviet style monstrosity.

Einhard

God this thread is depressing. I actually feel a knawing away at my insides reading these accounts of wanton destruction. The notion that we Irish love our heritage is BS- the reality is that we haven't gotten around to demolishing it yet.

Cardinal Richelieu

A slow destruction this one, Baldungan/Baldongan Castle in North Co Dublin.

Late 1800s


I understand the last of the castle disappeared in the 1960s do to this day even some of the locals still mistakenly call the remains of the church the castle.

jonniebgood1

Einhard wrote: »

God this thread is depressing. I actually feel a knawing away at my insides reading these accounts of wanton destruction. The notion that we Irish love our heritage is BS- the reality is that we haven't gotten around to demolishing it yet.

Maybe we should have a thread on preserved heritage. I think that would be a good idea and will do so shortly unless someone beats me to it.

Cardinal Richelieu

Judgement Day wrote: »

Kenure House near Rush, Co.Dublin THEN



and NOW

Kenure is in Rush not near it. The estate behind it is St Catherines, Rush.

Cardinal Richelieu

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I once heard a colleague go off on one about the building of a helipad at Clonmacnoise (for the 1979 Papal visit?) but can't find any images...

Anyone have any info on that?

Not very impressive looking today.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sherwoodh/5019553526

Aerial shot,, pad at the north of settlement between the river


New York Times 1985

The newest structure at Clonmacnoise is not yet 20 years old - a shelter built in 1969 for open-air masses. On Sept. 9, St. Kieran's feast day is celebrated with a service that attracts as many as 30,000 people. When Pope John Paul II visited Clonmacnoise in 1979, he spoke from the mass shelter. (He landed at the ruins by helicopter, and the pad constructed for the occasion remains. You would expect it to look flagrantly anachronistic, and yet there is something oddly congruous about the round concrete slab that is more than just the result of deliberate architectural harmonizing.

Corkman.ie

Donncha Ó Dulaing, who was then broadcasting his daily programme ‘Highways and Byways’ on RTE Radio One, had travelled to Rome the week prior to the visit and had broadcast two programmes from the Vatican.

He then travelled back on the flight to Dublin, but his efforts to interview Pope John Paul II were almost thwarted by the papal bodyguard, Monsignor – later Archbishop – Paul Marcinkus.

“Marcinkus was a giant of a man and one didn’t argue with him,” said Donncha as he recalled those hectic days.

Of course Donncha went on to broadcast from the other locations which the Pope visited during his short stay in Ireland. One of these locations was the ancient monastic settlement of Clonmacnoise. This was publicised as a private visit by the Pontiff and the media were not present, except for the intrepid Donncha, who succeeded in getting a forty-minute exclusive radio broadcast.

He drove across country from Drogheda via Dublin through the night, arriving at a damp and misty Clonmacnoise and the roads full of people walking with Papal flags and the tricolour.

Donncha says he was reminded of the passage from William Bulfin’s Rambles in Erin which reads:

“On all the roads between Banagher and Athlone there are troops of people facing westward, hundreds of people are tramping the roads in the dust; hundreds are footing it over the fields and the hills.”

Then the helicopter hovering and descending out of the mist to the landing pad and the Pope set foot in the seat of the old Celtic religion and the seat of Rory O’Connor, the last High King of Ireland, who is buried there.

mike65

Its not always bad news (not point of thread I realise!) here in Waterford two notable historic hospitals could easily have been flatted and cleared, - the Holy Ghost (now Manor Court) and the Infirmary fortunately both structures were kept intact and turned into apartments.
One can easily imagine both being replaced by "soviet" blocks.

dubhthach

St. Peter's Church Aungier Street closed in 1950 and demolished in 1983.



According to wiki it was the largest Church of Ireland Parish church in Dublin at one time. The local parish of Robert Emmet's family (some argue he was interred there)

corktina

I'm shocked.

demolishing a ringfort wilfully should get a jail sentance.

Lets hope the Fairys get him!

slowburner

corktina wrote: »

I'm shocked.

demolishing a ringfort wilfully should get a jail sentance.

Lets hope the Fairys get him!

Let's hope they do indeed.
That is just about all that is protecting our early heritage.

I spoke not too long ago, with a farmer who was utterly proud of himself for razing a passage tomb on his land.
He told me this, to prove his disdain for the myths surrounding 'fairy forts'.
He used the stone for building walls - his hobby.
What he did with artefacts or bones or other archaeology, I do not know.
I know of several other sites that have been ploughed into the ground by large scale landowners. They do this on a regular basis, to remove hedgerows and other obstacles to their lust for prairie style fields.

Posted something similar to this over in the archaeology forum but the photos seem to have disappeared for some reason.

dubhthach

slowburner wrote: »

Let's hope they do indeed.
That is just about all that is protecting our early heritage.

I spoke not too long ago, with a farmer who was utterly proud of himself for razing a passage tomb on his land.
He told me this, to prove his disdain for the myths surrounding 'fairy forts'.
He used the stone for building walls - his hobby.
What he did with artefacts or bones or other archaeology, I do not know.
I know of several other sites that have been ploughed into the ground by large scale landowners. They do this on a regular basis, to remove hedgerows and other obstacles to their lust for prairie style fields.

Posted something similar to this over in the archaeology forum but the photos seem to have disappeared for some reason.

Did you report him to the Gardaí? It's one thing having disdain for "fairy forts" it's another destroying historical sites that might be of archaelogical significance.

slowburner

Sometimes it is not that simple, sadly.
He is a neighbour and out here in the boonies you can't go cheesing off your neighbours - let alone requesting their prosecution.
The other thing is that he levelled it before it had been listed in the Sites and Monuments Record, so proving its prior existence would be well nigh impossible.
I did inform an archaeologist at the DAHG with responsibility for the area - the reply was that it has happened to tens of thousands of sites.
I suspect he is right.
We have undoubtedly lost thousands of early sites - the remarkable thing is how many have survived.
Maybe we can thank the Romans for that.

Bannasidhe

slowburner wrote: »

Sometimes it is not that simple, sadly.
He is a neighbour and out here in the boonies you can't go cheesing off your neighbours - let alone requesting their prosecution.
The other thing is that he levelled it before it had been listed in the Sites and Monuments Record, so proving its prior existence would be well nigh impossible.
I did inform an archaeologist at the DAHG with responsibility for the area - the reply was that it has happened to tens of thousands of sites.
I suspect he is right.
We have undoubtedly lost thousands of early sites - the remarkable thing is how many have survived.
Maybe we can thank the Romans for that.

The Romans?

slowburner

Well, the Romans didn't build all that many forts, roads, spas, boundary walls in Ireland, did they?
If they had, we would have lost more of our early heritage.
Imagine how they would have used up all those ready sorted piles of stones as substrates for their lovely straight roads.

Bannasidhe

slowburner wrote: »

Well, the Romans didn't build all that many forts, roads, spas, boundary walls in Ireland, did they?
If they had, we would have lost more of our early heritage.
Imagine how they would have used up all those ready sorted piles of stones as substrates for their lovely straight roads.

Ah. Getcha now .

slowburner

I'm a little OCD about the Romans

Cedrus

Bannasidhe wrote: »

My beloved South Mall in Cork -

From a street of Georgian elegance -

to Soviet style monstrosity.

In fairness these pictures aren't comparing like with like, they are opposite sides of the street, and vile and all as Gardner (formerly Sutton) House is, it replaced Suttons coal warehouse which was no beauty and fairly filthy too I'd imagine.

Bannasidhe

Cedrus wrote: »

In fairness these pictures aren't comparing like with like, they are opposite sides of the street, and vile and all as Gardner (formerly Sutton) House is, it replaced Suttons coal warehouse which was no beauty and fairly filthy too I'd imagine.

True - I couldn't find any photo of the south side of the Mall - but I bet that when the turn of the century photo was taken there wasn't a Soviet block there.

Cedrus

Bannasidhe wrote: »

True - I couldn't find any photo of the south side of the Mall - but I bet that when the turn of the century photo was taken there wasn't a Soviet block there.

No, those two utilitarian office blocks were lashed up in the 60s before that there were utilitarian victorian warehouses built in the 1800s.

Bannasidhe

Cedrus wrote: »

No, those two utilitarian office blocks were lashed up in the 60s before that there were utilitarian victorian warehouses built in the 1800s.

Any photos? I went to school on the Mall so I have a particular fondness for it.

Cedrus

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Any photos? I went to school on the Mall so I have a particular fondness for it.

I have a picture in a book but I had a quick look already and couldn't find it, the two books that I checked had very poor indices and it's too late at night to go through page by page. If I have time tomorrow I'll try to find it. There is a great book called the 'industrial archaeology of cork' that details loads of old buildings and their original industries. There used to be loads of breweries and distilleries in the city but times change and land usage changes with it. Thankfully there are no iron or brass foundries in the city centre, there used to be several!

slowburner

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Any photos? I went to school on the Mall so I have a particular fondness for it.

I'm sure you know this source very well but there's a heap of early photos of Cork from the Lawrence collection and other photographers.

Cedrus

slowburner wrote: »

I'm sure you know this source very well but there's a heap of early photos of Cork from the Lawrence collection and other photographers.

There is one picture there which catches the back of Sutton's on the left, with union quay across the river, but not the South Mall side
http://www.nli.ie/glassplates/L_CAB/L_CAB_02808.jpg
Here it is on the Goads map, I thought the coal was bad enough but apparently they had a manure store as well.:eek:
http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/mapsimages/goadplansofcorkcity/goadplans1915revisions/goadplans1915map15/

Cedrus

Sutton's Fire, South Mall, 29th November 1963 www.corkcityfirebrigade.ie
OK, so it's not completely hideous, the bits you can see anyway, but I guess a warehouse with coal, and oil in it would always be at risk of fire damage. TF McNamaras "Portrait of Cork" has a very poor picture from another angle of a 1958 fire.

Bannasidhe

Cedrus wrote: »

Sutton's Fire, South Mall, 29th November 1963 www.corkcityfirebrigade.ie
OK, so it's not completely hideous, the bits you can see anyway, but I guess a warehouse with coal, and oil in it would always be at risk of fire damage. TF McNamaras "Portrait of Cork" has a very poor picture from another angle of a 1958 fire.

It looks there like it was redbrick with limestone - a combination found along the Mall. I doubt it was mustard yellow/baby pooh colour of the Soviet monstrosity.

Cedrus

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It looks there like it was redbrick with limestone - a combination found along the Mall. I doubt it was mustard yellow/baby pooh colour of the Soviet monstrosity.

Being that it was an industrial building, it was probably local slob brick rather than the better quality imported clay ones used on the more upmarket buldings of the Mall. If so, it would be looking pretty bad by now even without the two fires. Slob bricks were made on the douglas river and over by the railway station from river mud and they were soft, mishapen and uneven coloured. All of the good clay bricks were imported, mostly from holland and they were too expensive to use on 'lesser buildings'.

The 60s were not noted for architecture in this country, but soviet is off the mark, those office blocks are distinctly capitalist in nature, lash it up cheaply and get the profits in.

pedroeibar1

mike65 wrote: »

Some industrial heritage, Ballysadare Mill, Sligo

Totally depressing topic.
The above building arose as a topic over on another site - here is one of the better links to what has/is happening to it - worth a look to see what happens to our 'finest architecture and quality construction'.
http://zxcode.com/2011/05/the-mill-apartments-ballisodare/

P.

Bannasidhe

Cedrus wrote: »

Being that it was an industrial building, it was probably local slob brick rather than the better quality imported clay ones used on the more upmarket buldings of the Mall. If so, it would be looking pretty bad by now even without the two fires. Slob bricks were made on the douglas river and over by the railway station from river mud and they were soft, mishapen and uneven coloured. All of the good clay bricks were imported, mostly from holland and they were too expensive to use on 'lesser buildings'.

The 60s were not noted for architecture in this country, but soviet is off the mark, those office blocks are distinctly capitalist in nature, lash it up cheaply and get the profits in.

I remember reading somewhere - Sorry, can't recall where, which is unlike me - that a lot of the Dutch redbricks used on the Mall came in as ballast. The beautiful wrought iron balconies seen in parts of Sydney were similarly made from ballast - pig iron in their case.

capitalist/soviet - bloody ugly either way

I went to school on the first floor of #15. It still had many of the original feature - beautiful plasterwork, double doors leading into an ante-room, original fireplace and Victorian bathroom with original panelling (and bath and loo!). It always made me feel like I was in a 'posh' railway carriage.

tac foley

Sir - my father was born in Cork in 1904 - his dad was a clerk with the Cork Steam Packet Co.

Do you know of any books of Old Cork, or a 'then and now'?

I'd appreciate any information on the subject.

tac

Cedrus

tac foley wrote: »

Sir - my father was born in Cork in 1904 - his dad was a clerk with the Cork Steam Packet Co.

Do you know of any books of Old Cork, or a 'then and now'?

I'd appreciate any information on the subject.

tac

There are loads of books from old photographs published by the Irish Examiner/Evening Echo and others, local area Memoirs (which might be difficult to get other than locally), and more specialist covering the Markets, Local Business's, industry, politics, geology etc. Where do you want to start?

The Steam Packet Office is on the right in this picture or more recently from Google maps in the attachment.



A good place to have a look online is Cork City Library http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/

There's a full set of maps on the Ordnance Survey of Ireland site and you can toggle between current and old maps.
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,567428,571988,5,9

dubhthach

tac foley wrote: »

Sir - my father was born in Cork in 1904 - his dad was a clerk with the Cork Steam Packet Co.

Do you know of any books of Old Cork, or a 'then and now'?

I'd appreciate any information on the subject.

tac

Tac,

Not been very up on Cork (been a Galwegian and all). But given that I'm assuming you have a military background (going on the thread on Native Americans) you might appreciate it.

Irish Army Armoured Car in Passage West Cork after landing of forces by ship in 1922. This is during the civil war:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6652701421/

Regarding heritage there was lot destroyed during the Civil war, the prime example is the Record Office in the Four Courts which led to destruction of bulk of state records from medieval Ireland.



http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6298688212/

Fuinseog

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ohhh Ohhh I've more:

Trim Castle Hotel - sure why didn't they just attach it on to the side of the castle...
http://www.trimcastlehotel.com/home.htm




:mad::mad::mad:

I once heard a colleague go off on one about the building of a helipad at Clonmacnoise (for the 1979 Papal visit?) but can't find any images...

Anyone have any info on that?

i think its outside the walls which look very old but were only erected in the 1950s.

Fuinseog

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Coole House :mad:





More immediate concerns my arse. :mad:

the problem was house rates that were very expensive?

a lot of big houses were knocked at this time. they were regarded as symbols of the British Oppressor and this thinking spread to Georgian Dublin. Its not only in Ireland that cultural vandalism takes place. Walk through the streets of Prague and you would never think that there was a 800 year old German culture there. Completely erased after 1945 and written out of existence.

dubhthach

Fuinseog wrote: »

the problem was house rates that were very expensive?

a lot of big houses were knocked at this time. they were regarded as symbols of the British Oppressor and this thinking spread to Georgian Dublin. Its not only in Ireland that cultural vandalism takes place. Walk through the streets of Prague and you would never think that there was a 800 year old German culture there. Completely erased after 1945 and written out of existence.

Coole House was owned by the state who willfully neglected it until it had to be demolished though. Here's an article that was published in 1964 in the "Connacht Turbine" (as us Galwegians often call the Tribune )

This article was first published in 'The Connacht Tribune' on Saturday September 5th, 1964.

Dr. Micheal Mac Liammoir has lamented the passing of the Claddagh, the old Claddagh of thatched cottages. He regrets its disappearance as he regrets the decay into a heap of rubble of Lady Gregory's house at Coole near Gort. Speaking at the Yeat's International Summer School in Sligo last week Dr. Mac Liammoir said: Lady Gregory would not be glad about a lot of things that are now being done in Ireland. It is criminal to allow Lady Gregory's house at Coole, County Galway, to fall into ruin from a commerical point of view. Those people who got rid of the house, and the Claddagh in Galway and would not put up a plaque on the house in which Yeats was born are in the next breath crying out for tourists, and what have they to show tourists?"

Dr. Mac Liammoir is probably lamenting the disappearance of the Claddagh of the picture post cards. That was a quaint place. Women in red petticoats sat in the sun outside neat, white-washed cottages of golden thatch, and ducks ambled in a row on the green that fronted the houses. He must have come to know the real Claddagh during the time, now nearly forty years ago, when he and his equally famous colleague of the theatre, Hilton Edwards, launched Taibhdhearc na Gaillimhe. The real Claddagh was very different, but the picture of it may have been wiped out of Dr. Mac Liammoir's mind by the post card. The real thing was a jumble of bedraggled cottages, many of them with sagging or broken roofs, crowded together in a crazy network of alleys, some cobblestoned, some clay-surfaced, but all pitted and holding water whenever rain fell. It was an unsanitary place, the passing of which is not to be regretted.

This country shows scant respect for some ties of historical, archaeological and cultural significance, but to claim for the old Claddagh that it should have been preserved as something of tourist value is asking too much. When demolition was about to take place it was suggested that some of the houses should be preserved as museum pieces. Even if the Claddagh had been all that it was represented to be by the postcards no part of the worth while quality would have been preserved by a few of the cottages.

If blame is to be attached to anyone, associated with the change that took place in the Claddagh about thirty years ago it should be directed against the Local Government Department that provided the plans for the new houses and that, instead of providing something attractive, gave Galway a dull, drab housing area. Because it was a distinct community outside the walls of NormanGalway and because of the distinct way of its old life the Claddagh is still written of in tourist booklets, but it must be a disappointment to those who visit it. And so much could have been done had the housing section of the Department a sense of aesthetic values, in those days.

dubhthach

Fuinseog wrote: »

i think its outside the walls which look very old but were only erected in the 1950s.

The Walls in that photo are most certanity from 1950 they show both on the 25" map from early 20th century and the Ordance Survey map from the 1830/40's. The Wall you are talking bout isn't visible in that pic but around the "Corner" of the Curtain wall tower (opposite hotel) see Google Street View.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=trim,+ireland&hl=en&ll=53.553971,-6.790833&spn=0.00137,0.008942&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=64.792576,146.513672&vpsrc=6&hnear=Trim,+County+Meath,+Ireland&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.55397,-6.790833&panoid=GJbZldoBdshTssOKS8lRCw&cbp=11,31.3,,0,-10.96

The Hotel itself is built in area outside of the two wall, a fragment of which exists nearby. However it should never have been built in such a sensitive location.

Fuinseog

dubhthach wrote: »

Coole House was owned by the state who willfully neglected it until it had to be demolished though. Here's an article that was published in 1964 in the "Connacht Turbine" (as us Galwegians often call the Tribune )

tourism was not developed then. coole park was the place to visit in the 80s( not many other potions on a sunday afternoon). pity about the house. its upkeep could have been maintained through an admission fee.

the claddagh village was deemed unsanitary in the 30s, but if it had been restored it would have been a major magnet for tourists, but why mus we conserve our heritage just for the sake of tourists and making a quick buck? Even in the eighties there were several thatched cottages around the city , which featured on the classic postcards, but here was no interest in keeping them . a old couple lived in a thatched cottage up the road from me in Coolough and when they died about three years ago the cottage was let fall into ruin.

Fuinseog

dubhthach wrote: »

The Walls in that photo are most certanity from 1950 they show both on the 25" map from early 20th century and the Ordance Survey map from the 1830/40's. The Wall you are talking bout isn't visible in that pic but around the "Corner" of the Curtain wall tower (opposite hotel) see Google Street View.


The Hotel itself is built in area outside of the two wall, a fragment of which exists nearby. However it should never have been built in such a sensitive location.

just for the sake of clarification. the wall I was referring to was the one at clonmacnoise erected circa 1954.

slowburner

c.1840



....and today. The minor ringfort still exists but the major one has been obliterated for a golf course.
It was excavated though; nothing of great interest was unearthed but still, could it not have been preserved in some way?

dubhthach

I would say at least an excavation was done. When it comes to ringforts alot of them are just destroyed without any digging been done first.

Of course what's intersting is that in many ways we still don't know the exact purposes that Ringforts were used for. One purpose I've heard was for protecting cattle at night against Wolves!

slowburner

Against wolves for sure but against raiders too, almost certainly.