Asti strike action

Spanish Eyes · 20-09-2020 10:15pm

Blondini wrote: »

Okay, I'll just get Covid on the phone now and tell it hold off for a while.

FGS yourself.

Oops you are angry. Why?

Blondini · 20-09-2020 10:15pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

Why? I always see this argument. Surely teachers should have a better grasp of logic.

A member of the public thinking that teachers get paid too much for what they do does not have to equate to either a desire to do that work, or to a statement that it is a highly paid salary.

For example, if I have a kid and I hire the local 17 year old babysitter one evening to mind him/her old while I do something, and that babysitter then charges 25 Euro an hour I might think that that is too much. I don't need to have a desire to give up my 9-5 to become a babysitter in order to have that opinion.

Whether my opinion on the 25 Euro an hour babysitter is "correct" is irrelevant to my point on the logic. A person can think that being a teacher is not a highly paid job but still think that they are paid at too high a rate for the work they actually do.

As for a strike, why didn't they go on "symbolic strike" the last 5 or 6 months they were sitting at home.

This is not after hours.
Also, your wonderful groundbreaking ideas have been heard a thousand times before.

Spanish Eyes · 20-09-2020 10:17pm

Count Hairyfoot wrote: »

These would be the same supermarkets where you had to queue up outside to keep the numbers down? With the exception of the supply of PPE none of the points are at all similar.

I know, I'm hopping a ball.

Have there been any challenges in any other EU country yet regarding this issue?

Not that I have seen. But there we are now. Ireland is different.

20-09-2020 10:18pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

As I said, public opinion matters nothing at all.

It's nice to know your motivation is purely self involved. You're less concerned with the health of teachers, more concerned with your own career.
But as I said, it doesn't matter how angry you get. If it goes to strike (not confirmed) your feelings won't matter a damn.

EDIT: As a matter of interest, are either you or your spouse required to spend all day in a room with 30 people with little social distancing?

Everyone’s motivation is purely self involved at the moment. That is what you are failing to grasp. These are not ordinary times, people are worried, but still going to work.

Yes Padre, we are, both my wife and I work in health care, so I’ll take no lectures from you about working in a dangerous environment.

Darc19 · 20-09-2020 10:18pm

Alanna Most Tightrope wrote: »

With luck common sense can prevail in the ASTI.

Common sense simply does not exist in the ASTI

It's all about them and their needs of power.

Someday there will be a very strong minister of education and they will stand up to the bully tactics of the hardliners

Count Hairyfoot · 20-09-2020 10:18pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

As for a strike, why didn't they go on "symbolic strike" the last 5 or 6 months they were sitting at home.

Well they, like lots of others, were working from home for 3 of those months. As they are talking about the safety in schools they probably assumed that the department might take the time to come up with a workable plan instead of what they presented in the end, so they had no need to strike.

khalessi · 20-09-2020 10:19pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

As for a strike, why didn't they go on "symbolic strike" the last 5 or 6 months they were sitting at home.

Maybe because the majority were teaching while the Deptarment told us they were working on a plan which was due out in June, instead the HSE delivered one and our plan came out in July giving teachers about 3 and 1/2 weeks to get schools sorted so students could come back and then our Minister disappeared when schools were open and here we are now 3 weeks or so in, clusters, schools closing, 30 teachers contacted by Covid app and then superseded by HSE who said shure be grand

lawrencesummers · 20-09-2020 10:22pm

I found out during the week that teachers are not being given PPE.

That’s the most basic and simplest of requirement for ANY employee in ANY job.

Blondini · 20-09-2020 10:23pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

Surely you'd have grasped them by this then - no?

You can argue, and have the opinion that X or Y or Z is a difficult job or hard work. It just annoys me when people appear to think they prove something with what amounts to a simple non-sequitur . The suspicion must be that an argument must not be strong if you have to try to resort to such tactics.

Take you long to type that nonsense? because it's about to be deleted.
Good luck.

Spanish Eyes · 20-09-2020 10:23pm

Payback for the LC marking. So obvious. But anyway they did good and fair play to them in difficult circumstances.

But going on strike will be a bad move now I think. Just my opinion.

Count Hairyfoot · 20-09-2020 10:25pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I know, I'm hopping a ball.

Have there been any challenges in any other EU country yet regarding this issue?

Not that I have seen. But there we are now. Ireland is different.

I was walking to a relative who teaches in Germany only last week. The teachers are in full time but the kids aren't. On certain days different years come in which allows space for the schools to operate in a safer manner. The days kids aren't in they're working on assignments. A really basic common sense approach that they refused to countenance here and individual schools who wanted to do it were warned they could not. It's Plan A all the way until that fails and when it does they'll blame the schools for not implementing Plan A properly.

khalessi · 20-09-2020 10:28pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

Just get on with it and deal with it. Everyone is having to adapt to this thing. Moaning about the HSE as if they are supposed to know months in advance if and when people will actually obey guidelines and when they won't so that clusters will spring up

Maybe have a scheme that any teacher who has verified medical issues can take a temporary sabbatical and receive the PUP.

Speaking as a nurse I am dealing with it. I go into school and put on whatevevr ppe is available, I disinfect up to elbows numerous times a day but the fact that the government thinks it is ok to put aside the guidelines by ECDC and WHO for schools is infuriating. I worked in hospitals and knew that no matter what the hospital would do what it could to keep me safe and I knew the risks, now I teach and to hear the incorrect information on the radio airways is sickening. We are trying to keep children safe. If they are safe we are safe.

So I am getting on with it but it is not safe for students or staff and the fact that this is not reported is shocking.

Spanish Eyes · 20-09-2020 10:31pm

Count Hairyfoot wrote: »

I was walking to a relative who teaches in Germany only last week. The teachers are in full time but the kids aren't. On certain days different years come in which allows space for the schools to operate in a safer manner. The days kids aren't in they're working on assignments. A really basic common sense approach that they refused to countenance here and individual schools who wanted to do it were warned they could not. It's Plan A all the way until that fails and when it does they'll blame the schools for not implementing Plan A properly.

Agree that there should have been a measured reopening. But it seems that Gov wanted the schools reopening as the BIG RESULT!

Strange though that teachers are only giving out now when they had the last six or so months to think about things and they could have had an influence on Gov planning over that time. But no.

That's what is bugging me now.

khalessi · 20-09-2020 10:32pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Agree that there should have been a measured reopening. But it seems that Gov wanted the schools reopening as the BIG RESULT!

Strange though that teachers are only giving out now when they had the last six or so months to think about things and they could have had an influence on Gov planning over that time. But no.

That's what is bugging me now.

Maybe because the majority were teaching while the Deptarment told us they were working on a plan which was due out in June, instead the HSE delivered one and our plan came out in July giving teachers about 3 and 1/2 weeks to get schools sorted so students could come back and then our Minister disappeared when schools were open and here we are now 3 weeks or so in, clusters, schools closing, 30 teachers contacted by Covid app and then superseded by HSE who said shure be grand

Blondini · 20-09-2020 10:32pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That's what is bugging me now.

Angry?

s1ippy · 20-09-2020 10:32pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Agree that there should have been a measured reopening. But it seems that Gov wanted the schools reopening as the BIG RESULT!

Strange though that teachers are only giving out now when they had the last six or so months to think about things and they could have had an influence on Gov planning over that time. But no.

That's what is bugging me now.

Jesus Christ there are 8000 posts in the How will schools be able to reopen in September thread

Spanish Eyes · 20-09-2020 10:36pm

khalessi wrote: »

Maybe because the majority were teaching while the Deptarment told us they were working on a plan which was due out in June, instead the HSE delivered one and our plan came out in July giving teachers about 3 and 1/2 weeks to get schools sorted so students could come back and then our Minister disappeared when schools were open and here we are now 3 weeks or so in, clusters, schools closing, 30 teachers contacted by Covid app and then superseded by HSE who said shure be grand

OK, fair enough.

No one seems to know what is happening, and Norma is nowhere to be seen either. Thanks.

Blondini · 20-09-2020 10:36pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

Why so bitter?

What is it in your life that is missing? Do you wish you had chosen a different career? Or is it something else? There are people you can talk to

This is comedy gold.

Count Hairyfoot · 20-09-2020 10:37pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Agree that there should have been a measured reopening. But it seems that Gov wanted the schools reopening as the BIG RESULT!

Strange though that teachers are only giving out now when they had the last six or so months to think about things and they could have had an influence on Gov planning over that time. But no.

That's what is bugging me now.

They were screwed. They had a minister who knew he was out of a job anyway so didn't come up with much of anything and he was replaced by someone with no experience at all who promptly disappeared. By an amazing coincidence she only came out of the closet for interviews at the same time Phil Hogan was getting the boot so every press interview she got 3/4 of the questions were about the golf!

The department insisted on their one size fits all approach - schools and teachers weren't allowed to come up with a solution that would work better for them as the government wanted to be able to say they got the schools open full time again and to hell with the consequences down the line.

khalessi · 20-09-2020 10:39pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

OK, fair enough.

No one seems to know what is happening, and Norma is nowhere to be seen either. Thanks.

Someone likened her to Enya because of the black velvet jacket and the fact she is silent and invisible lol

Spanish Eyes · 20-09-2020 10:39pm

s1ippy wrote: »

Jesus Christ there are 8000 posts in the How will schools be able to reopen in September thread

Ah give me a break. I'm just joining the discussion here with no agenda whatsoever.

But maybe I need an ASTI membership card to comment

Spanish Eyes · 20-09-2020 10:41pm

khalessi wrote: »

Someone likened her to Enya because of the black velvet jacket and the fact she is silent and invisible lol

Hilarious :P

Blondini · 20-09-2020 10:43pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

Actually it is. Because anyone who can read and comprehend will see that I never expressed an opinion vis-a-vis teachers pay/holidays/etc.

I simply tried to educate you on the logical fallacy that was being put forward.

But, as all classes do, there will be a spectrum of ability everywhere in life. Not everyone will be able to get it. Even if, as you yourself readily admitted, it has be explained to you a thousand times before. You just might never be able to get it. It's ok though. Life goes on.

I can actually visualise Donald Trump himself typing that, little hands feverishly pounding the keyboard :pac:

Go to bed man, you're out of your depth.

Padre_Pio · 20-09-2020 10:45pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Yes Padre, we are, both my wife and I work in health care, so I’ll take no lectures from you about working in a dangerous environment.

You and your wife work in healthcare, and you think it's perfectly ok for the teachers to break NPHET and HSE guidelines and put themselves at risk so long as it doesn't disrupt your routine?

Wow.

Holy f*cling sh*t wow...

Polka_Dot · 20-09-2020 10:46pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

But maybe I need an ASTI membership card to comment

Seeing as this is a forum for teachers and this thread is discussing ASTI strike action, that sounds pretty reasonable.

Spanish Eyes · 20-09-2020 10:52pm

Polka_Dot wrote: »

Seeing as this is a forum for teachers and this thread is discussing ASTI strike action, that sounds pretty reasonable.

OK teacher, will log off now or go into detention. LOL. (will do neither)

If you have no opposing views you are finished, but go ahead and live in your little bubble and enjoy.

teachinggal123 · 20-09-2020 10:55pm

Blondini wrote: »

I can actually visualise Donald Trump himself typing that, little hands feverishly pounding the keyboard :pac:

Go to bed man, you're out of your depth.

Yeah, everyone’s out of their depth except you, right?

This is no laughing matter or ‘comedy gold’. Disgraceful to suggest so.

20-09-2020 10:57pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

You and your wife work in healthcare, and you think it's perfectly ok for the teachers to break NPHET and HSE guidelines and put themselves at risk so long as it doesn't disrupt your routine?

Wow.

Holy f*cling sh*t wow...

It’s every student/parent’s routine, not just mine. Again, the lack of awareness on your part is astounding.

You think you are special? Different from anyone else who has concerns for their health, but has to go back to work. We would all like safer environments with no risk of infection, but that just isn’t there. Your school had 6 months to plan for this, you are back to school 2 weeks, do you want to sit on your ass at home for the next year?

Unbelievable.

spurious · 20-09-2020 10:59pm

Time for bed children.

Might re-open this tomorrow.

**Edit open again, though if it has to be closed permanently, it will.

Regular posters, instead of engaging with the '3 months holiday/sit on your arses/what about the nurses/you don't know you are born' posts, please, instead, report the post and block the user.

Hoping for a civil, INFORMED discussion by people who will be involved in the strike action, should it or other action happen.

Blondini · 21-09-2020 10:29am

Any word from TUI yet? Will they follow?

Random sample · 21-09-2020 11:30am

I’m quite torn on this. Systems in place in my school are good. Issues have been recognised and rectified by management. They’re working hard for us and with us. Then I hear about other schools which are a free for all. DES telling teachers they are not close contacts while their covid app disagrees. ‘I’m alright jack’ but surely I have to vote based on my own experiences?

It would suit me better if the DES would engage with the ASTI on their issues in the schools that are having problems. I don’t think that is going to happen though.

Treppen · 21-09-2020 12:06pm

Random sample wrote: »

I’m quite torn on this. Systems in place in my school are good. Issues have been recognised and rectified by management. They’re working hard for us and with us. Then I hear about other schools which are a free for all. DES telling teachers they are not close contacts while their covid app disagrees. ‘I’m alright jack’ but surely I have to vote based on my own experiences?

It would suit me better if the DES would engage with the ASTI on their issues in the schools that are having problems. I don’t think that is going to happen though.

No, that's like saying you won't vote for pay equality because it doesn't affect you. Vote for the other members in Union who are getting shafted by medmark and department.

Our school is also pretty good so a lot of teachers throwing their eyes up this morning, but they had to be reminded of what's going on in other schools.
Department are refusing to engage with unions and teachers at the moment so only one thing for it.

Crikey Christy was as watery this morning on radio, no facts given, worse than the King fella. Is there anyone in any union who is actually able to cite members problems?

Treppen · 21-09-2020 12:07pm

Blondini wrote: »

Any word from TUI yet? Will they follow?

Thats a bit of a running joke.

Followed by the better punchline... "INTO? "

lulublue22 · 21-09-2020 12:30pm

Treppen wrote: »

Thats a bit of a running joke.

Followed by the better punchline... "INTO? "

You won’t see INTO for love nor money

Random sample · 21-09-2020 1:48pm

Treppen wrote: »

No, that's like saying you won't vote for pay equality because it doesn't affect you. Vote for the other members in Union who are getting shafted by medmark and department.

Our school is also pretty good so a lot of teachers throwing their eyes up this morning, but they had to be reminded of what's going on in other schools.
Department are refusing to engage with unions and teachers at the moment so only one thing for it.

Pay inequality is different because it can be seen in our own staff room. This is one where our school is being compliant, so it’s unfortunate that it has to suffer. Similar to the slars last year, we were getting last class off for them, but had to stop doing them because other principals weren’t implementing the circular. I wish there was a way of targeting non compliant management without pissing off the ones who are doing their best and managing well.

clunked · 21-09-2020 3:27pm

I think its daft that the Croke Park hours are being foisted on us at this time. I'd strike on that

Treppen · 21-09-2020 3:34pm

Random sample wrote: »

Pay inequality is different because it can be seen in our own staff room . This is one where our school is being compliant, so it’s unfortunate that it has to suffer. Similar to the slars last year, we were getting last class off for them, but had to stop doing them because other principals weren’t implementing the circular. I wish there was a way of targeting non compliant management without pissing off the ones who are doing their best and managing well.

My point is that you don't just strike because it only affects your school. You strike in the interests of the whole union.

doc_17 · 21-09-2020 7:55pm

Yes, the people calling for ASTI to “engage” to address the issues haven’t been paying attention since 2012. Where has engagement gotten teachers in solving the two tier pay?

combat14 · 21-09-2020 8:23pm

heard reports of one primary school staff meeting today (INTO) .. staff apparently livid as only got one poor quality visor to last the year and nothing else .. not happy campers will be interesting to see if INTO and TUI ballot members as well

Treppen · 21-09-2020 10:27pm

combat14 wrote: »

heard reports of one primary school staff meeting today (INTO) .. staff apparently livid as only got one poor quality visor to last the year and nothing else .. not happy campers will be interesting to see if INTO and TUI ballot members as well

The ASTI survey closed on Saturday so I presume the ballot is coming out of that.

Did the TUI or INTO..... ahhh forget it .

doc_17 · 21-09-2020 10:37pm

Did the TUI lead their members up to top of the hill and then embarrassingly have to lead them Back down again?

No. Still only ASTI that are doing that:

I let the previous dozen insults to TUI go.

acequion · 21-09-2020 11:28pm

doc_17 wrote: »

Did the TUI lead their members up to top of the hill and then embarrassingly have to lead them Back down again?

No. Still only ASTI that are doing that:

I let the previous dozen insults to TUI go.

Are you still banging the same drum even now in a pandemic? Still trying to claim TUI are even relevant! At least ASTI have tried. And are now trying again, while it's radio silence from all the others.

But if you've nothing else to worry you at the moment other than the failures of a union who keep trying, then good for you! I think most teachers are too busy worrying for their safety and by extension, the safety of the vulnerable members in their families. So is it really too much to ask that members of the other teacher unions put aside the bitching and have all teachers unite and support each other? For once! And for all our safety!

khalessi · 21-09-2020 11:36pm

acequion wrote: »

Are you still banging the same drum even now in a pandemic? Still trying to claim TUI are even relevant! At least ASTI have tried. And are now trying again, while it's radio silence from all the others.

But if you've nothing else to worry you at the moment other than the failures of a union who keep trying, then good for you! I think most teachers are too busy worrying for their safety and by extension, the safety of the vulnerable members in their families. So is it really too much to ask that members of the other teacher unions put aside the bitching and have all teachers unite and support each other? For once! And for all our safety!

I beg to differ, as was pointed out by another poster the INTO did tweet a crossword:D

History Queen · 22-09-2020 8:10am

Can we please not reduce ourselves to infighting? The division between unions has allowed the government to capitalise at teacher's expense over the last number of years. Both use different strategies for better or worse, the main thing is that we all feel our own union is representing us and if we don't feel that, that we hold them accountable.

Padre_Pio · 22-09-2020 11:00am

History Queen wrote: »

So you want teachers to get on with working in unsafe environments and allowing children to stay in unsafe environments because of misplaced begrudery? Right.

If COVID was in any way dangerous to children you can guarantee that every parent would be up in arms about the conditions in schools.

But since it's not, you just get the
"sure you were off for 6 months" (like you've built up a resistance to COVID:rolleyes: )
"sure you had plenty of time to prepare"(like you were given any notice, direction or resources :rolleyes: )
"sure if X school can do it, why can't you?" (like all schools have equal student numbers, classrooms, floor space, teachers :rolleyes: )
"sure we're all in this together" (like any other sector is required to break NPHET and HSE guidelines and is noticeably absent from many government announcements :rolleyes: )
"sure it's not that dangerous"(Yeh, I'm sure it's not, parent who is working from home :rolleyes: )

<snip troll quote>

HerrKuehn · 22-09-2020 11:12am

Anyone reading this forum would know that teachers are the most put upon group in society, they work the longest hours, have unique challenges that no one else faces etc. In fact they are the only group I know of that have it so hard that they need to have an annual get together to discuss how hard they have it.
We even have primary school teachers working from 3am until 11pm sometimes. This would be unique internationally.

But with respect to the strike, it seems with schools we have 3 options:
1) schools open
2) teachers on strike, not paid
3) "remote learning" as we had before the summer, teachers paid.

For me, #1 is ideal, but #2 is better than #3 based on my experience of this remote learning, it made no difference.

History Queen · 22-09-2020 11:14am

fliball123 wrote: »

ok wel then no payment go on your strike for as long as you want with no salary see how that goes for you

We never get paid when on strike. That's the point I was making. Did you seriously think strikes were paid?

Padre_Pio · 22-09-2020 11:17am

fliball123 wrote: »

I think unions and teachers and the government had enough time to get systems and equipment in place you guy had not been in a classroom for 7-8 months. If you have not had the gumption to sort something out between the lot of you in that time I don't know why the phuck we are paying you lot so much money

What does that even mean?

Say you have ten classroom built for 20 students and you have 20 students in each (which, given the way resources are allocated to schools would be fairly unusual)
How can you space them out?

It would be rare for schools to have rooms large enough for distancing.
Hardly any schools would have enough halls, gyms, and free space to take the overflow.
Even if you could split a class between two rooms, your teacher would need to run back and forward trying to teach two classes at the same time.

Now lets say HALF the schools in the country can do this successfully. What about the other half? Would you be happy if half your work colleagues had to work in unsafe conditions?

Padre_Pio · 22-09-2020 11:23am

fliball123 wrote: »

What the means is from the out side looking in teachers, unions and gov have had approx 8/9 months to sort out schools, classes, rooms, PPE etc to have schools as safe as they can be and yet here we are nearing October and you lads want to strike because you lot didn't get together to sort it out and we on the outside looking in at this mess we have to pay for it.

How do we space out hospital beds , how do we space out trains, buses, how to we space out supermarkets, I am sure there is a suitable solution but the unions have picked the moment thinking it is an ideal time to hammer home an advantage that they think they have and it will backfire on them

What does "as safe as can they can be" actually mean?
Looking around, it means the same as they were before COVID.

Regarding your second point, if schools were to follow trains, busses and supermarkets, they'd just tell half the children to stay at home, or only send in one child from a family, and they can tell the others what they learned when they get home :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I had a quick look at your post history and there's a decade of bitterness towards the public sector. I don't think anything I can say will change your mind.

Padre_Pio · 22-09-2020 11:30am

fliball123 wrote: »

One thing will change my mind just go and do your job and suck it up like the rest of the working population have.

There's the crux of it.
Put up and shut up.

And we're done here.

Asti strike action

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