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New Worldwide Handicap System

1…1819212324…39

Comments

  • #1002
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    finglashoop wrote: »
    But will it not be a constant recalculation when you play a game unless best 8 stay the same. So if manual intervention is there, how does the system keep that in the next calculation?
    It would be pretty much like an ESR or an annual review change under CONGU, but unlike CONGU will drop off when newer rounds are logged.


  • #1003
    macslash
    Registered Users Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭macslash


    Using that calculator above, I'm set to gain 5 shots? It can't be right can it?


  • #1004
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Does anyone know if there is an app or calculator available that when you input your latest score the 20th score drops out and you can recalculate?

    I have used the calculator but it would be hard to maintain on an ongoing basis unless you move all the entries down by 1 each time which is not practical. I know we will have out HI updated each day but just for monitoring purposes.

    I have had a terrible year Golf wise. Started off at 7.2, have been maxed out at 8.2 for some time. Worked out HI last week at 10.9. Had a couple of reasonable rounds at the weekend but still out of buffer zone. HI has changed to 10.4 now.


  • #1005
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    While I had some time recently I made a google spreadsheet to keep a track of my predicted WHS HI.

    Here is a copy of it:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-64dPotwKyAtP2wTAqGrgPU88TuPQbQVqTb1iya2TTI/edit?usp=sharing

    You can make a copy of it to your own Google Drive and edit with your own dates/scores/slopes/course rating. (File->Make a Copy)

    Every time I complete a new round I insert that where it says "Oldest" on the left

    It only works for 18 hole comps, but it will give you your current HI according to the WHS rules.

    Those are just sample sccores, not mine. I am a much higher handicapper than 11.


  • #1006
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    macslash wrote: »
    Using that calculator above, I'm set to gain 5 shots? It can't be right can it?
    You have to remember to use adjusted gross: nett double bogey for holes that were scratched or were above nett double bogey in strokeplay.


  • #1007
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    While I had some time recently I made a google spreadsheet to keep a track of my predicted WHS HI.

    Here is a copy of it:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-64dPotwKyAtP2wTAqGrgPU88TuPQbQVqTb1iya2TTI/edit?usp=sharing

    You can make a copy of it to your own Google Drive and edit with your own dates/scores/slopes/course rating. (File->Make a Copy)

    Every time I complete a new round I insert that where it says "Oldest" on the left

    It only works for 18 hole comps, but it will give you your current HI according to the WHS rules.

    Those are just sample sccores, not mine. I am a much higher handicapper than 11.
    Very helpful

    Or this one which is an excel spreadsheet which people can download and play around with and which works up to the 20 rounds and beyond using all the steps in the handicap index calculation from the minimum of three rounds. There's a column in it for the PCC (similar to CSS) in there too which will make it a bit more accurate. Using CSS-SSS is probably the most accurate.


  • #1008
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Very helpful

    Or this one which is an excel spreadsheet which people can download and play around with and which works up to the 20 rounds and beyond using all the steps in the handicap index calculation from the minimum of three rounds. There's a column in it for the PCC (similar to CSS) in there too which will make it a bit more accurate. Using CSS-SSS is probably the most accurate.

    I didn't take into account the PCC as we havent been receiving it. I really only did this to get a handle on where I would start. It's not clear if all these PCCs will retrospectively calculated when our HIs are calculated in a couple of weeks time.


  • #1009
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    I didn't take into account the PCC as we havent been receiving it. I really only did this to get a handle on where I would start. It's not clear if all these PCCs will retrospectively calculated when our HIs are calculated in a couple of weeks time.
    I believe there was some indication from the GUI a while ago that a PCC type calculation would be applied based on the formula I posted above. Hazy on it now, but it was on this forum iirc.


  • #1010
    macslash
    Registered Users Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭macslash


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    You have to remember to use adjusted gross: nett double bogey for holes that were scratched or were above nett double bogey in strokeplay.

    Ya I did that !


  • #1011
    gypsy79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    I have one I use for calculating mine that is based on Golfnet results

    If you send me on your golfnet results (as many as possible) I can fire in your results and email it back to you

    PM for email


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  • #1012
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    macslash wrote: »
    Ya I did that !
    So we now move on to how sh1t your year was. :D

    Don't worry, can't be as sh1t as mine. My golf never recovered from the last lockdown. couldn't hit a drive into the right county. :(


  • #1013
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    I have one I use for calculating mine that is based on Golfnet results

    If you send me on your golfnet results (as many as possible) I can fire in your results and email it back to you

    PM for email

    My golfnet results does not show my adjusted gross for stableford.

    Is that my club's issue or what?


  • #1014
    gypsy79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    My golfnet results does not show my adjusted gross for stableford.

    Is that my club's issue or what?
    You dont need one for stableford as the scoring mathod automatically handles scratches

    NO DATE COMP VEN SSS CSS TYP GS 19 AG STAB PAR GD ND HA REH RPH
    35 18/10/2020 Men's Back 9 Hole 275 69 n/a Q9H - - - 24 70 30 12 0 18.2 18
    34 17/10/2020 Members Only Stableford 275 70 70 QSH - - - 31 70 23 5 0.1 18.2 18
    33 15/10/2020 Mens Single Stableford Open 223 73 73 QSA - - - 36 73 18 0 0 18.1 18
    32 11/10/2020 Dave O'Rourke (Strokes) 275 70 70 QMH 95 -2 93 - - 23 5 0.1 18.1 18


    You can see the clause 19 adjustment for my strokes round

    Yes thinks havent been going well lately


  • #1015
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    You dont need one for stableford as the scoring mathod automatically handles scratches

    NO DATE COMP VEN SSS CSS TYP GS 19 AG STAB PAR GD ND HA REH RPH
    35 18/10/2020 Men's Back 9 Hole 275 69 n/a Q9H - - - 24 70 30 12 0 18.2 18
    34 17/10/2020 Members Only Stableford 275 70 70 QSH - - - 31 70 23 5 0.1 18.2 18
    33 15/10/2020 Mens Single Stableford Open 223 73 73 QSA - - - 36 73 18 0 0 18.1 18
    32 11/10/2020 Dave O'Rourke (Strokes) 275 70 70 QMH 95 -2 93 - - 23 5 0.1 18.1 18


    You can see the clause 19 adjustment for my strokes round

    Yes thinks havent been going well lately

    Sure, but how can you calculate the WHS HI without the actual adjusted gross, slope rating and course rating, none of which are in the golfnet results table that I can see?


  • #1016
    gypsy79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    Sure, but how can you calculate the WHS HI without the actual adjusted gross, slope rating and course rating, none of which are in the golfnet results table that I can see?

    Quite easily by linking the course id and SSS to a table that contains the new slope and rating

    I have done it for all my rounds

    But you asked
    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    My golfnet results does not show my adjusted gross for stableford.

    Is that my club's issue or what?

    which is the question I answered


  • #1017
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    Quite easily by linking the course id and SSS to a table that contains the new slope and rating

    Ah ok .. by a separate lookup table.

    Would you like to share this spreadsheet or do we have to email you our tables of results?


  • #1018
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    Sure, but how can you calculate the WHS HI without the actual adjusted gross, slope rating and course rating, none of which are in the golfnet results table that I can see?
    You'll get your adjusted gross score for stableford rounds by adding your handicap + par to the difference between your points and 36. That would be the same as gross differential plus par if you've no scratches, but if you do, it's the former calculation.

    So say you have 22 points off 18 and you had a couple of scratches, the calculation is (36-22) = 14 +18 +72 = 104

    Course and slope ratings can be found here.


  • #1019
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    You'll get your adjusted gross score for stableford rounds by adding your handicap + par to the difference between your points and 36. That would be the same as gross differential plus par if you've no scratches, but if you do, it's the former calculation.

    So say you have 22 points off 18 and you had a couple of scratches, the calculation is (36-22) = 14 +18 +72 = 104

    Course and slope ratings can be found here.

    Yeah I get that. It was just that without the Par for the course in the data, you can't. Now I see that he has a separate lookup using the venue number and CSS SSS to get the par, slope and course rating.

    Its all good.


  • #1020
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    Yeah I get that. It was just that without the Par for the course in the data, you can't. Now I see that he has a separate lookup using the venue number and CSS to get the par, slope and course rating.

    Its all good.
    Par for the course is listed in the GolfNet data. :confused:


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  • #1021
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Par for the course is listed in the GolfNet data. :confused:

    oooops .. so it is.

    :rolleyes:


  • #1022
    macslash
    Registered Users Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭macslash


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    So we now move on to how sh1t your year was. :D

    Don't worry, can't be as sh1t as mine. My golf never recovered from the last lockdown. couldn't hit a drive into the right county. :(

    In my defence I took up the sport in late May and I always felt the handicap I got was a bit on the low side!


  • #1023
    Rikand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,424 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Nobodies calculations in those excel sheets seem to be allowing for the 95% part. Is the 95% part gone now again ?


  • #1024
    gypsy79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    Rikand wrote: »
    Nobodies calculations in those excel sheets seem to be allowing for the 95% part. Is the 95% part gone now again ?

    It comes after your handicap index has been calculated. The sheets are just doing handicap index

    So if your handicap index is 20 and playing a course with slope of 130

    then your playing handicap would be:

    0.95 * (130/113) * 20 = 21.85 (22)


  • #1025
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Rikand wrote: »
    Nobodies calculations in those excel sheets seem to be allowing for the 95% part. Is the 95% part gone now again ?
    Nah. That depends on what format you're playing. Stroke and Stableford are 95%, but there are also different percentages for matchplay etc.


  • #1026
    gary29428
    Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭gary29428


    I don't have many scores in and some are RSA scores in my golfnet, are these taken into account in the calculation or is it just QSA & QSH scores....I think you can get cut for RSA and RSH scores so they probably should be.


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  • #1027
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    gary29428 wrote: »
    I don't have many scores in and some are RSA scores in my golfnet, are these taken into account in the calculation or is it just QSA & QSH scores....I think you can get cut for RSA and RSH scores so they probably should be.
    Yeah, they're reduction only scores. Kind of a half way house between non-qualifying and qualifying.


  • #1028
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,253 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    macslash wrote: »
    Using that calculator above, I'm set to gain 5 shots? It can't be right can it?

    That would make you a severe TIDNAB!


  • #1029
    T453
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭T453


    Anybody know if non-qualifying scores count from before in the new handicap system


  • #1030
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    T453 wrote: »
    Anybody know if non-qualifying scores count from before in the new handicap system
    No.


  • #1031
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    GreeBo wrote: »
    That would make you a severe TIDNAB!

    It seems that macslash just started in May this year and his allotted h/c was a bit harsh.

    I think this particular scenario is one that WHS will end.

    I play with a guy who was allotted an 18 and he is more like 25/26. Therefore he is currently not competitive and its not an incentive to compete and improve. WHS will place him with the correct HI and he can compete in comps with a chance of getting placed.


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  • #1032
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    It seems that macslash just started in May this year and his allotted h/c was a bit harsh.

    I think this particular scenario is one that WHS will end.

    I play with a guy who was allotted an 18 and he is more like 25/26. Therefore he is currently not competitive and its not an incentive to compete and improve. WHS will place him with the correct HI and he can compete in comps with a chance of getting placed.
    Something else I've noticed with guys who get to low an initial allocation is that they tend to just 'drop the head' as they get into a round and their scores only get worse as a result.


  • #1033
    DuckSlice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭DuckSlice


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    It seems that macslash just started in May this year and his allotted h/c was a bit harsh.

    I think this particular scenario is one that WHS will end.

    I play with a guy who was allotted an 18 and he is more like 25/26. Therefore he is currently not competitive and its not an incentive to compete and improve. WHS will place him with the correct HI and he can compete in comps with a chance of getting placed.

    I'm hoping it will for a few lads I know. They play off anything from 18-23, they rarely score better than 25/30 points. Hopefully the new system will sort these lads out.


  • #1034
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    etxp wrote: »
    I'm hoping it will for a few lads I know. They play off anything from 18-23, they rarely score better than 25/30 points. Hopefully the new system will sort these lads out.

    It definitely will if they have been scoring under 30 points.

    And with the CONGU increasing h/c by 1 limit per year, it could take several years to find your spot. It's possible that some would just give up before that happens. With WHS, the HI actually reflects how you have been playing.

    I think once it is bedded in most people will agree that it is a better reflection of our abilities.


  • #1035
    DuckSlice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭DuckSlice


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    It definitely will if they have been scoring under 30 points.

    And with the CONGU increasing h/c by 1 limit per year, it could take several years to find your spot. It's possible that some would just give up before that happens. With WHS, the HI actually reflects how you have been playing.

    I think once it is bedded in most people will agree that it is a better reflection of our abilities.

    Yea one of them has given up on competitions because he is never going to feature. Hopefully the new handicap will give him a new lease of life for competition golf.


  • #1036
    Russman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,915 ✭✭✭Russman


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    It definitely will if they have been scoring under 30 points.

    And with the CONGU increasing h/c by 1 limit per year, it could take several years to find your spot. It's possible that some would just give up before that happens. With WHS, the HI actually reflects how you have been playing.

    I think once it is bedded in most people will agree that it is a better reflection of our abilities.

    Yeah I think this is probably true. The CONGU system in a way reflects how good you used to be, and then says its your potential.
    WHS will be far more current.
    Although changing mindset will be the biggest issue. Someone who used to be a really good player, now a few years older, but the one shot per year limit in CONGU prevented them going out too far, might find WHS throws up a handicap that will cause a lot of gasps in the bar !:)


  • #1037
    Seve OB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,070 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    It definitely will if they have been scoring under 30 points.

    And with the CONGU increasing h/c by 1 limit per year, it could take several years to find your spot. It's possible that some would just give up before that happens. With WHS, the HI actually reflects how you have been playing.

    I think once it is bedded in most people will agree that it is a better reflection of our abilities.

    i fear that I'm in for a rollercoaster ride!
    22 yesterday :(
    haven't broken 30 in weeks, and probably only a couple of times in the last 2 months, and barley at that, think i had a 31 and a 32.
    i hope I'm not in for a big hike because I'm well able to play golf close enough to my handicap
    just going through a bad patch... which unfortunately comes at a time when I'm hardly working so playing lots of golf..... and I mean lots :D


  • #1038
    DuckSlice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭DuckSlice


    Seve OB wrote: »
    i fear that I'm in for a rollercoaster ride!
    22 yesterday :(
    haven't broken 30 in weeks, and probably only a couple of times in the last 2 months, and barley at that, think i had a 31 and a 32.
    i hope I'm not in for a big hike because I'm well able to play golf close enough to my handicap
    just going through a bad patch... which unfortunately comes at a time when I'm hardly working so playing lots of golf..... and I mean lots :D

    do you have 20 rounds of bad golf played though?


  • #1039
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    The one thing I worry about the WHS is the possibility for bandits to manipulate it.

    The CONGU +1 limit stopped anyone going out too far on purpose.

    With WHS, you can effectively go out 5 (hard limit).

    Given that we can put in General Play cards and it can include 9 holes, I could play my most recent 20 rounds over a few weeks and manipulate my HI to be 5 more than it should be. This would effectively give me 5 strokes or 5 points in a target competition that I want to win.

    Am I missing something?


  • #1040
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    The one thing I worry about the WHS is the possibility for bandits to manipulate it.

    The CONGU +1 limit stopped anyone going out too far on purpose.

    With WHS, you can effectively go out 5 (hard limit).

    Given that we can put in General Play cards and it can include 9 holes, I could play my most recent 20 rounds over a few weeks and manipulate my HI to be 5 more than it should be. This would effectively give me 5 strokes or 5 points in a target competition that I want to win.

    Am I missing something?
    You could. But that's a lot of golf and you have to have a marker with you (even though marking the card doesn't actually happen in the usual way) and declare your round before you start. If somebody did that, it would be very unusual and pretty obvious too.


  • #1041
    DuckSlice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭DuckSlice


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    The one thing I worry about the WHS is the possibility for bandits to manipulate it.

    The CONGU +1 limit stopped anyone going out too far on purpose.

    With WHS, you can effectively go out 5 (hard limit).

    Given that we can put in General Play cards and it can include 9 holes, I could play my most recent 20 rounds over a few weeks and manipulate my HI to be 5 more than it should be. This would effectively give me 5 strokes or 5 points in a target competition that I want to win.

    Am I missing something?

    I think they take into account your lowest round for a period of time outside the 20 rounds. and you can only go out by 3 if you are at a certain level and 5 for higher handicaps? maybe I misread it.


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  • #1042
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    etxp wrote: »
    I think they take into account your lowest round for a period of time outside the 20 rounds. and you can only go out by 3 if you are at a certain level and 5 for higher handicaps? maybe I misread it.

    3 is a "soft cap", 5 is the "hard cap". It's explained quite well here:

    https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/world-handicap-system-stops-cheats/


  • #1043
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    You could. But that's a lot of golf and you have to have a marker with you (even though marking the card doesn't actually happen in the usual way) and declare your round before you start. If somebody did that, it would be very unusual and pretty obvious too.

    So is it down to the club to determine how they manage the General Play cards? Say limit the number per month, or not use the same marker more than once over a given period?

    Just to be clear, I have no interest in manipulating myself, jusy playing devil's advocate.


  • #1044
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,592 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    Will be interesting, I’ve played with a couple of scratch players, who expect to go out to +3 or more, once their average rounds in their last 20 are gone and they are left with their best 8. Whereas I’ve played with a couple of single figure players who will go out to the hard limit straight away. I expect to go out from 11 to 16 straight away, which will be a bit high, have had a couple of good rounds in last month, but they were non qualifying due to how wet it’s been. I’d expected to be very competitive off 16, and hopefully to come down pretty quickly once get to play qualifying comps again. However I’d also expect winning stableford scores to go up 3 to 4 shots, a lot more people will be playing to their handicaps more often. Especially those like myself who are the more ‘erratic’ but longish off the tee.


  • #1045
    Seve OB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,070 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    etxp wrote: »
    do you have 20 rounds of bad golf played though?

    not far off it actually
    think i'm on 9 .1's atm in a row. two cuts before that, 1 ESR, and the 10 rounds before those probably had no more than 4 scores in the buffer


  • #1046
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,253 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    It's very difficult for any handicap system to distinguish between someone who can't play to their handicap Vs one who isn't playing to it.
    Like someone not playing to it but still having pars and birdies is very different to someone who just cannot hit the ball well enough.

    Congu basically rated you on your good shots


  • #1047
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    So is it down to the club to determine how they manage the General Play cards? Say limit the number per month, or not use the same marker more than once over a given period?

    Just to be clear, I have no interest in manipulating myself, jusy playing devil's advocate.
    Well it's always been down to clubs to police handicap manipulation. I think WHS will just make it easier to spot anomalies like the one suggested. Somebody lashing in loads of supplementary scores would be a cause for question at the very least. Although my club has been encouraging members to do this where they haven't enough scores to get an accurate WHS handicap index, somebody who's playing regularly in competitions wouldn't have this excuse.


  • #1048
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,591 ✭✭✭blue note


    GreeBo wrote: »
    It's very difficult for any handicap system to distinguish between someone who can't play to their handicap Vs one who isn't playing to it.
    Like someone not playing to it but still having pars and birdies is very different to someone who just cannot hit the ball well enough.

    Congu basically rated you on your good shots

    I wonder how different the guy having pars and birdies but coming in with scores of +22 is from someone punching the ball up the fairways to get to the same score.

    If someone is having a few scratches every round, that's not something that is easily fixed. There's probably swing problems there that make affect their control. They might get away with it for the front 9 and have birdies and pars, but then scratch a couple of holes on the back which will offset them. If they sort out their problems they will shoot better scores and their handicap will come down. Similarly if the guy punching the ball up the fairway can work on his rotation and add distance, he can also start putting in better scores.

    The two types of golfer are indeed different, but I don't think a handicap system needs to distinguish between them.


  • #1049
    Russman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,915 ✭✭✭Russman


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    So is it down to the club to determine how they manage the General Play cards? Say limit the number per month, or not use the same marker more than once over a given period?

    Just to be clear, I have no interest in manipulating myself, jusy playing devil's advocate.

    Could you be bothered though, in reality ? Not you specifically, but in general. Its an awful lot of effort and time for a few shots back. You could then stand up on the first tee in the Captains and hit two out of bounds and all your effort is for nothing. You'd want to be a pretty serious bandit IMO. Again, not you specifically !


  • #1050
    finglashoop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭finglashoop


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Well it's always been down to clubs to police handicap manipulation. I think WHS will just make it easier to spot anomalies like the one suggested. Somebody lashing in loads of supplementary scores would be a cause for question at the very least. Although my club has been encouraging members to do this where they haven't enough scores to get an accurate WHS handicap index, somebody who's playing regularly in competitions wouldn't have this excuse.

    Id play two comps a week and will also probbaly put in a couple of supplementary scores as well, unless club puts on more midweek comps.

    Im looking forward to the supplementary aspect so every round counts even if its only 9. Although ill be using it to get handicap down rather than up


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  • #1051
    Russman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,915 ✭✭✭Russman


    blue note wrote: »
    I wonder how different the guy having pars and birdies but coming in with scores of +22 is from someone punching the ball up the fairways to get to the same score.

    If someone is having a few scratches every round, that's not something that is easily fixed. There's probably swing problems there that make affect their control. They might get away with it for the front 9 and have birdies and pars, but then scratch a couple of holes on the back which will offset them. If they sort out their problems they will shoot better scores and their handicap will come down. Similarly if the guy punching the ball up the fairway can work on his rotation and add distance, he can also start putting in better scores.

    The two types of golfer are indeed different, but I don't think a handicap system needs to distinguish between them.

    That's been me exactly this year :eek: ! Missed the buffer by 1 shot about 8 times in a row, yet was averaging having to chip out sideways from trees 6 times per round. Can't tell you the number of times I've turned with 20+ points but then you've to hit it straight on our back nine ! If I could find a way onto the short grass (or even just "grass" !) I'd be several shots lower. As it is, I'm looking at going from 8.7 out to 10.4 under the WHS and I (perhaps misguidedly) feel that next season I'll shoot some mad scores if I straighten out the tees shots even a little bit.


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